Most Thais don’t have enough savings to last six months if they stop working

[Katia]

double post

Edited June 23, 2018 by Katia

[Katia]

2 hours ago, cmsally said:

Yesterday morning saw Thai woman buying 300 Bts worth of stuff in 7-11 on a credit card (not debit)! Over coffee we were trying to think if there was any reason you would do this unless you had no money - either cash or in bank. I don't know is there a reason, it just seemed pretty strange.

To build credit.  I never got a credit card... don't need one.  I need the credit score it'll give me, though.  I'll have to get one eventually.  And since I don't need it, I'll use it to buy some stupid little thing every month and then pay it off.  Ridiculous but there you have it.  Hard to get by without one these days when you need one to do things like rent cars, and when you credit score affects everything from your job to your housing.

[Expatthailover]

14 hours ago, Jdiddy said:

Similar in the western world

Exactly.

Payday loan companies and loan sharking has exploded in the west

[Expatthailover]

42 minutes ago, Katia said:

To build credit.  I never got a credit card... don't need one.  I need the credit score it'll give me, though.  I'll have to get one eventually.  And since I don't need it, I'll use it to buy some stupid little thing every month and then pay it off.  Ridiculous but there you have it.  Hard to get by without one these days when you need one to do things like rent cars, and when you credit score affects everything from your job to your housing.

A large proportion of the workforce ( especially sub 30yo ) still live with mum and dad so savings and rainy day money are unnecessary in their mind set

Banks and govts all over the world are phasing out cash.

First to go will be ( are ) large denomination notes.

Its good for tax, it severely inhibits crims ( especially drug dealers )

Already in oz welfare recipients are being trialled with food only debit and credit cards.

High street banks are like rocky horse guano.

[Katia]

9 minutes ago, Expatthailover said:

A large proportion of the workforce ( especially sub 30yo ) still live with mum and dad so savings and rainy day money are unnecessary in their mind set

Banks and govts all over the world are phasing out cash.

First to go will be ( are ) large denomination notes.

Its good for tax, it severely inhibits crims ( especially drug dealers )

Already in oz welfare recipients are being trialled with food only debit and credit cards.

High street banks are like rocky horse guano.

Debit cards can be used like credit cards for many applications (online purchases, etc.).  So that's no big deal if you don't want to use exclusively cash (in the U.S. I almost never even carry cash.  Here it's the opposite).  But some things require a credit card, and many things require credit (and a credit card tends to be the easiest way to build that).

[CGW]

4 hours ago, Justfine said:

I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.

 

In 1969 I gave up women and alcohol - it was the worst 20 minutes of my life.

 

I used to go missing a lot... Miss Canada, Miss United Kingdom, Miss World.

 

I've stopped drinking, but only while I'm asleep.

 

GEORGE BEST

RIP, plan B?

[Srinivas]

17 hours ago, Jeremy50 said:

Not really, most Germans are not in debt, and feel a deep sense of shame if they are put in that situation, and that is as it should be. The Dutch and Scandinavians are similar, anywhere that has a deeply rooted Protestant work ethic. 

Are you joking? Protestant debt ethic is more like it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/these-are-the-countries-with-the-biggest-debt-slaves-2017-1

[Mac98]

18 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Seems like the wealthy elite the world over have put the big squeeze on the workers. I saw this just yesterday .......        Can you cover an unexpected $400 expense? Four in ten Americans can't, according to a new report from the Federal Reserve Board.          Where I live most people are working hand to mouth and like many suggest here couldn't last 6 days without work. In fact, many are permanently in debt and paying last weeks bills with this weeks pay. Its the price that has to be paid for that 0.1% who have the mega billions with no intentions of ever letting it go. Capitalism at its worst.

That is the true end game in capitalism and how it is designed to work. That's why there needs to be government guidance concerning monopolies, minimum wages, interest rates, and taxation. 

[greenchair]

Get in line. 

Few working class people have 6 months emergency fund. 

[PomPolo]

In my experience most farang don't have enough for 6 days either - point to discuss obviously there are are exceptions with thought out emigration to the land of smiles/suicide - discuss

[JAG]

12 hours ago, JAG said:

Most Thais are so miserably paid, by one of the most exploitative employment regimes imaginable in a nation which claims to be developed, that any sort of savings are simply unattainable.

 

11 hours ago, BestB said:

I guess that depends on who is doing the judging and comparison 

 I would say that no matter how you judge it B8000 a month for a 10 hour day, 6 days a week is pretty miserable and pretty exploitative.

 

As for exploitation, that is fueled and enabled by setting the minimum wage as a daily rather than hourly rate. Hence the long days. If it was say B40 an hour then an 8 hour day would bring in B320, still a pittance, but at present what many get for a (10 hour plus) day.

Edited June 23, 2018 by JAG

[smotherb]

22 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Wrong

The biggest problem in the western world is that if you did have enough,& take a year + off work, you will be discriminated against 

An example

Applied for a job (through a labour hire company )  & even though I had 20 + years experience in my field was told I may have a job with one multi big local company, but would not be allowed on a multi international companies site (owned by royalty )

This is in Auss & talking BIIIIIIIG COMPANIES

My experience doesn't reflect yours.

 

I doubt 80% of Westerners could live six months on their savings---look at the numbers of us who are living here on private or state pensions; without any savings of which to speak. 

 

I often took a year off between contracts and never had a problem finding work because I had not worked for a year. 

 

Of course, this was US expat work, but also with big MNCs in the military-industrial complex. In fact, long spans between contracts was quite the norm among the software engineers I knew--problem was many waited until they were broke before returning to work. 

[smotherb]

21 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Yeah,to hell with it-let's throw yet another party..sanook,sanook..sabai..sabai

Sounds good to me

[BestB]

13 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

 I would say that no matter how you judge it B8000 a month for a 10 hour day, 6 days a week is pretty miserable and pretty exploitative.

 

As for exploitation, that is fueled and enabled by setting the minimum wage as a daily rather than hourly rate. Hence the long days. If it was say B40 an hour then an 8 hour day would bring in B320, still a pittance, but at present what many get for a (10 hour plus) day.

Who pays 8000 per month? Minimum wage has been 9900 for months already ?

 

now you say pittance ? For whom you? 

 

What are you comparing ? Wages in UK, AU, CAD, US to Thai wages or what is your comparison scale ?

 

thai on minimum wage jobs get paid Thai minimum wage just as Australians or English in minimum wage jobs get paid a minimum wage and just as Thai can not afford much.

 

then you mention 10 hour days, again compare productivity here and back where you from before commenting on the hours .

 

thaj in minimum jobs do as minimum as possible , lack any skills , most certainly can not multi task hence why have 3-4 staff working 2x2 icecream kiosk and the rest of the time spent playing on the phone or sleeping.

 

those who do little more than nothing and work for little longer than a few months most certainly do not earn minimum wage and also get bonuses.

 

my cleaners start on 10000, thouse who stay and really work earn double that. Problem is only 1 stayed , other hundreds of not thousands are gone after 1-2 months because either tired or problem home or go home or bad boss not let play on phone and sleep half a day .

 

so do not be in such a rush to make conclusions based on nothing but rumours and sad bar girl stories.

 

jusy for your information 

 

dental assistant start 20 000

factiry worker with 12 years in the factory is on 34000 

 

mechanic at toyota on 28000 plus yearly bonus 80 000 for new year and another 50000 for Thai new year .

[smotherb]

22 hours ago, Jeremy50 said:

Most Thais are in debt, between 100.000 baht and a million usually. If they stop working, they'll be living off their credit cards, or more likely off family members who are also in debt. It's all going to end in tears.

 

The basic rules for 'happy' financial probity are:

 

1. Don't have a credit card, and don't borrow.

2. Don't spend your capital.

3. If you don't have the money, don't buy it.

4. Embrace austerity if you have to, and find ways to benefit from that situation, for example, finding beneficial pastimes that cost little or nothing.

I think the list is even shorter: 1. Be smarter than the problem--full stop

 

Knowledge is the key; you have to understand credit and capital. You have to be able to plan and schedule your actions and have the wherewithal to see them through.

 

If you don't have the knowledge or ability, then it can still be a short list: 1. Spend less than you make--full stop.

 

 

[Lungstib]

1 minute ago, smotherb said:

If you don't have the knowledge or ability, then it can still be a short list: 1. Spend less than you make--full stop.

Which is easier said than done when the most basic of human needs is food, drink and shelter. Some jobs here don't pay enough to do that let alone pay for transport, electric, clothing and toiletries.

[jenny2017]

Most Thais wouldn't have money if we wouldn't spend so much. 

[The Deerhunter]

23 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Seems like the wealthy elite the world over have put the big squeeze on the workers. I saw this just yesterday .......        Can you cover an unexpected $400 expense? Four in ten Americans can't, according to a new report from the Federal Reserve Board.          Where I live most people are working hand to mouth and like many suggest here couldn't last 6 days without work. In fact, many are permanently in debt and paying last weeks bills with this weeks pay. Its the price that has to be paid for that 0.1% who have the mega billions with no intentions of ever letting it go. Capitalism at its worst.

Yes.  300 to 600 baht a day does not leave a lot for saving and that is an understatement.

[smotherb]

1 minute ago, Lungstib said:

Which is easier said than done when the most basic of human needs is food, drink and shelter. Some jobs here don't pay enough to do that let alone pay for transport, electric, clothing and toiletries.

I wasn't just talking about the Thais; it's true for all people. Also, I never said it was easy; even if you have the knowledge and ability, it's not easy.  

 

When I look at the people here I know, I see a success who has little education and worked the most menial jobs; yet he lives rather well, not rich, but comfortable. I see a failure who had a professional career, but sits here at the end of every month worrying where he is going to get enough baht to last until payday.

 

Just look around you; look at all he people you know. Some have done better than others financially; yet, among the ones who have done better, not all are the knowledgeable ones.

 

It takes common sense.

[smotherb]

14 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Half of my wife's siblings are half Thai.  The older ones who are of Vietnamese stock seem to do fine, although it could be a generation thing as well.

 

The young ones fritter stuff away, no thought to tomorrow.  Wife's older half-sister is looking to sell a 45 Rai property she bought cheaply for 45 million Baht now, though she lost 30 million in a failed trucking business venture.  But she started with virtually NOTHING except Vietnamese/Chinese greed. 555 . 

Greed?  Or, business sense?

[InMyShadow]

How is this news 

Same world wide 

[Damrongsak]

23 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Greed?  Or, business sense?

A good bit of both.

[JAG]

57 minutes ago, BestB said:

Who pays 8000 per month? Minimum wage has been 9900 for months already ?

 

now you say pittance ? For whom you? 

 

What are you comparing ? Wages in UK, AU, CAD, US to Thai wages or what is your comparison scale ?

 

thai on minimum wage jobs get paid Thai minimum wage just as Australians or English in minimum wage jobs get paid a minimum wage and just as Thai can not afford much.

 

then you mention 10 hour days, again compare productivity here and back where you from before commenting on the hours .

 

thaj in minimum jobs do as minimum as possible , lack any skills , most certainly can not multi task hence why have 3-4 staff working 2x2 icecream kiosk and the rest of the time spent playing on the phone or sleeping.

 

those who do little more than nothing and work for little longer than a few months most certainly do not earn minimum wage and also get bonuses.

 

my cleaners start on 10000, thouse who stay and really work earn double that. Problem is only 1 stayed , other hundreds of not thousands are gone after 1-2 months because either tired or problem home or go home or bad boss not let play on phone and sleep half a day .

 

so do not be in such a rush to make conclusions based on nothing but rumours and sad bar girl stories.

 

jusy for your information 

 

dental assistant start 20 000

factiry worker with 12 years in the factory is on 34000 

 

mechanic at toyota on 28000 plus yearly bonus 80 000 for new year and another 50000 for Thai new year .

Rumours and bar girl stories. As soon as I see that as a justification for repudiating a point I know that the poster is clutching at straws.

 

I live in Chiang Rai, and have done for several years. We don't really have many "bar girls up here"

 

To earn B9900 up here, on the minimum wage, one would have to work a 31 day month.

 

The wages which you quote certainly are nowhere, absolutely nowhere, like the ones paid up here, and I suspect are only received by a small number of exceptionally fortunate people in and around Bangkok. Here, for example, a newly qualified teacher is on around B12000, rising to B18000 after 10 years or so. A qualified experienced hospital lab technician is on B16000 (top of the pay scale). The sort of bonuses you describe simply do not exist.

 

 

I am not comparing with wages in first world countries, but looking at Thai wages, compared to even the most frugal of lifestyles here, they are miserable.

 

As for your personal employees, I shan't comment, other than to wonder, given the intensity of you reaction, both in general terms and with - shall we say more personal suggestions ( listening to bar girls) -  quite what those who left meant by regarding you as a "bad boss"?

[BestB]

4 minutes ago, JAG said:

Rumours and bar girl stories. As soon as I see that as a justification for repudiating a point I know that the poster is clutching at straws.

 

I live in Chiang Rai, and have done for several years. We don't really have many "bar girls up here"

 

To earn B9900 up here, on the minimum wage, one would have to work a 31 day month.

 

The wages which you quote certainly are nowhere, absolutely nowhere, like the ones paid up here, and I suspect are only received by a small number of exceptionally fortunate people in and around Bangkok. Here, for example, a newly qualified teacher is on around B12000, rising to B18000 after 10 years or so. A qualified experienced hospital lab technician is on B16000 (top of the pay scale). The sort of bonuses you describe simply do not exist.

 

 

I am not comparing with wages in first world countries, but looking at Thai wages, compared to even the most frugal of lifestyles here, they are miserable.

 

As for your personal employees, I shan't comment, other than to wonder, given the intensity of you reaction, both in general terms and with - shall we say more personal suggestions ( listening to bar girls) -  quite what those who left meant by regarding you as a "bad boss"?

 

Well now you have been made aware of what the minimum wage is. Just because someone does not pay it somewhere where you live it does not become a fact that no one pays it absolutely no where.

 

To claim otherwise is rather silly as i seriously doubt you know everyone, everywhere,

 

The more you post the more it becomes clear you have no hands on experience or even remote knowledge of what happens in Thailand, I specifically enjoyed where you proclaimed and let me quote to get it right

 

The wages which you quote certainly are nowhere, absolutely nowhere, like the ones paid up here, and I suspect are only received by a small number of exceptionally fortunate people in and around Bangkok. Here, for example, a newly qualified teacher is on around B12000, rising to B18000 after 10 years or so. A qualified experienced hospital lab technician is on B16000 (top of the pay scale). The sort of bonuses you describe simply do not exist.

 

I am not here to convince you either way, you can continue living with your blinkers on or you can listen to others, Entirely your choice.

 

Oh and teachers start on 15 000 and a qualified nurse in a private hospital starts on 30 000

[JAG]

4 minutes ago, BestB said:

I am not here to convince you either way, you can continue living with your blinkers on or you can listen to others, Entirely your choice.

I listen to a great many people, both on here and elsewhere. I do however tend not to bother too much with those who talk nonsense...

 

In particular I don't bother with those who are unable to engage in a relatively civil discussion without bellowing abuse, (blinkers) or claiming that because they disagree with you: "The more you post the more it becomes clear you have no hands on experience or even remote knowledge of what happens in Thailand, "

 

Good night

[BestB]

17 minutes ago, JAG said:

I listen to a great many people, both on here and elsewhere. I do however tend not to bother too much with those who talk nonsense...

 

In particular I don't bother with those who are unable to engage in a relatively civil discussion without bellowing abuse, (blinkers) or claiming that because they disagree with you: "The more you post the more it becomes clear you have no hands on experience or even remote knowledge of what happens in Thailand, "

 

Good night

 

If you find being educated an abuse then very sorry to have offended your values. 

 

Sleep well and remember there is world outside your village and Thai visa ?

[Katia]

2 hours ago, smotherb said:

I wasn't just talking about the Thais; it's true for all people. Also, I never said it was easy; even if you have the knowledge and ability, it's not easy.  

 

When I look at the people here I know, I see a success who has little education and worked the most menial jobs; yet he lives rather well, not rich, but comfortable. I see a failure who had a professional career, but sits here at the end of every month worrying where he is going to get enough baht to last until payday.

 

Just look around you; look at all he people you know. Some have done better than others financially; yet, among the ones who have done better, not all are the knowledgeable ones.

 

It takes common sense.

True in some cases.  I know a guy who made some pretty damn good money in my book, but was always complaining that he was broke and couldn't save for retirement, etc.  Now, it was true that he had a fair amount of student loans and two kids, both of which are pretty big money sucks, but... it always killed me that for a guy who swore he couldn't put money away for retirement, he sure drove a nice car.  (For all I know it was paid off and such, but there's still the costs for insurance and repairs...)

 

(For that matter, I keep hearing people say that doctors aren't as rich as people think, student loans and malpractice insurance so expensive, etc.  Then why do these "poor" doctors all drive BMWs and Audis??  And no, you can't tell me medicine is one of those professions where you have to maintain a certain image and drive a nice car even if you can't afford it.)

[smotherb]

5 minutes ago, Katia said:

True in some cases.  I know a guy who made some pretty damn good money in my book, but was always complaining that he was broke and couldn't save for retirement, etc.  Now, it was true that he had a fair amount of student loans and two kids, both of which are pretty big money sucks, but... it always killed me that for a guy who swore he couldn't put money away for retirement, he sure drove a nice car.  (For all I know it was paid off and such, but there's still the costs for insurance and repairs...)

 

(For that matter, I keep hearing people say that doctors aren't as rich as people think, student loans and malpractice insurance so expensive, etc.  Then why do these "poor" doctors all drive BMWs and Audis??  And no, you can't tell me medicine is one of those professions where you have to maintain a certain image and drive a nice car even if you can't afford it.)

Anybody can blow it, and many people can put on a good show while they are doing it. How many rotation-worker tycoons or vacation millionaires have you seen?

[ChakaKhan]

17 hours ago, Vacuum said:

That's an illusion, there is no such thing as "free".

Illusion--A Word I often use to describe Thailand as a Whole....Think of it as alternate reality aka Illogical Universe

 

As I tell tourists everything you see it NOT as it seems--dig deeper as Its all an illusion--a fake world ala Twilight Zone

[chubby]

On 6/22/2018 at 3:59 AM, Jeremy50 said:

Not really, most Germans are not in debt, and feel a deep sense of shame if they are put in that situation, and that is as it should be. The Dutch and Scandinavians are similar, anywhere that has a deeply rooted Protestant work ethic. 

so you don't have a mortgages in Germany and the banks don't sell that debt  as Mortgage Backed Securities. 

 

IMO it's pretty much be design now for 'developed' economies' ..... now need to push austerity,  and try to exploit what spoils are left off shore    aka  'the world bank'; EMF, etc ...... The Goldman Sachs   steal from the poor , but it's blamed on the governments,    hence the arising  so- called populism , which is just misdirected   at the 'government' ,  except in China, where there is still state owned captial  ?