Rescuers pick up hundreds of migrants across Mediterranean ahead of EU talks

[Morch]

8 hours ago, simple1 said:

Certainly not those politicians beloved by many on this forum i.e. Populist Nationalists

 

That by itself is a somewhat populist comment. Perhaps not all countries are keen to test the merits of the EU's current immigration situation. Perhaps other countries consider limiting and pacing immigration to be more beneficial in the long term. There's nothing which commands other nations to emulate the mess which is the EU immigration policy (or lack of).

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

That by itself is a somewhat populist comment. Perhaps not all countries are keen to test the merits of the EU's current immigration situation. Perhaps other countries consider limiting and pacing immigration to be more beneficial in the long term. There's nothing which commands other nations to emulate the mess which is the EU immigration policy (or lack of).

Before commenting. perhaps you would like to check out the policies of relevant EU governments. A reasonable starting point being Poland with zero quota for refugees, Hungary with two a day etc. If you find these policies to be acceptable, so be it, I do not.

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

A reasonable starting point being Poland with zero quota for refugees, Hungary with two a day etc. If you find these policies to be acceptable, so be it, I do not.

Why do you find them unacceptable ?

 

Are you Hungarian or Polish ? If not, what are Hungary's or Poland's Internal policies got to do with you ?

 

Have a read of this

 

Quote

Populist parties are winning elections across Europe. Instead of ignoring them, established parties should be taking notes.

https://www.politico.eu/article/what-populists-get-right-establishment-should-take-notes/

 

This is happening for a reason. One of the reasons is people like you.

[Opl]

Europe can't afford to be the ad vitam host for ever conflicting tribes living in poor countries with booming population 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Opl

[simple1]

43 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

 

Why do you find them unacceptable ?

Quote

Are you Hungarian or Polish ? If not, what are Hungary's or Poland's Internal policies got to do with you ?

<snip>

"cause both governments are deliberately eroding the democratic liberal order with zero constructive solutions for replacement of world order policies, nor funding, all negativity, could say nihilist.

 

Could ask you the exact same question.

 

We differ greatly. IMO you and others professing support for politicians and governments who are their core are anti democratic populist nationalist governments (I include the current US Administration) are a greater danger to our societies than asylum seekers / refugees.

 

NB: As previously stated I do not support Open Borders for 'migrants'.

Edited June 25, 2018 by simple1

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

We differ greatly. IMO you and others professing support for anti democratic populist nationalist governments (I include the current US Administration) are the are a greater danger to our societies than asylum seekers / refugees.

There is nothing Anti Democratic about these Governments, they were all elected into power by their respective electorates.

 

The topic is not about Asylum Seekers / Refugees. The topic is about migrants, which is a totally different kettle of fish.

[simple1]

45 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

There is nothing Anti Democratic about these Governments, they were all elected into power by their respective electorates.

 

The topic is not about Asylum Seekers / Refugees. The topic is about migrants, which is a totally different kettle of fish.

Yep all perfectly democratic, no corruption, no oppression of the opposition, no attacks on freedom of the press etc etc etc.

 

Economic 'migrants', refugees, asylum seekers and so on are all in the same groupings so far as populist government policy.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, simple1 said:

Before commenting. perhaps you would like to check out the policies of relevant EU governments. A reasonable starting point being Poland with zero quota for refugees, Hungary with two a day etc. If you find these policies to be acceptable, so be it, I do not.

 

This isn't about what I find acceptable, but for the record, I don't like the two governments you mentioned much. What I meant was that relevant notions and options are often painted in an extreme manner, and that his holds for both sides of the political divide (and even more so, the more extreme elements of either).

 

That some European countries chose to open their gates, and expected this would be upheld without issues by other EU members was sheer folly, or at best, a gross political miscalculation. Some things can be compelled or coerced, some can not. All the more so when the EU faces other serious challenges.

 

Poland or Hungary aren't Germany or Sweden. Not with regard to their ability to host refugees or their willingness to do so. The latter may be both disappointing, and a reminder that the EU got a ways to go before it lives up to its name.

 

What I actually had in mind was the US, though. Not the current mess, but how it generally treats the issue of accepting refugees etc. IMO, works better all around.

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Morch

[tryasimight]

31 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

This isn't about what I find acceptable, but for the record, I don't like the two governments you mentioned much. What I meant was that relevant notions and options are often painted in an extreme manner, and that his holds for both sides of the political divide (and even more so, the more extreme elements of either).

 

That some European countries chose to open their gates, and expected this would be upheld without issues by other EU members was sheer folly, or at best, a gross political miscalculation. Some things can be compelled or coerced, some can not. All the more so when the EU faces other serious challenges.

 

Poland or Hungary aren't Germany or Sweden. Not with regard to their ability to host refugees or their willingness to do so. The latter may be both disappointing, and a reminder that the EU got a ways to go before it lives up to its name.

 

What I actually had in mind was the US, though. Not the current mess, but how it generally treats the issue of accepting refugees etc. IMO, works better all around.

 

Sweden has fallen. Every country/ people has the right to uphold their values and culture as best they can. 

 

Why is it that  an overwhelming majority of illegals are young men?  Too gutless to stay and fight to improve their home countdown exonomy/ way of life?  

Easier to do a runner leaving the wife and kids behind in a country they claim is too dangerous for them to return to? 

 

What's going on? 

 

Are the lefties actively under undermining a way of life?  For what reason? 

 

It's a worry for Europe,  but not so much in SEA just yet....  until the Euros start the white flight thingg and the invasion starts en masse.

Edited June 25, 2018 by tryasimight

[Morch]

 

@tryasimight

 

Yeah, well....thanks for demonstrating the right wing hyperbole narrative on this. About as factual and to the point as can be expected. 

[tryasimight]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@tryasimight

 

Yeah, well....thanks for demonstrating the right wing hyperbole narrative on this. About as factual and to the point as can be expected. 

I don't think im right wing.....just a normal balanced individual. YMMV

 

Feel free to comment on where you think I am wrong..... I'm open minded.... But not gullible

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by tryasimight

[Chelseafan]

9 hours ago, simple1 said:

Yep all perfectly democratic, no corruption, no oppression of the opposition, no attacks on freedom of the press etc etc etc.

 

Economic 'migrants', refugees, asylum seekers and so on are all in the same groupings so far as populist government policy.

Populist governments will continue to garner support unless the issue is addressed. The more immigrants Europe takes in the more resentment it will create -  it becomes a vicious circle. Even Merkel admitted she got it wrong by allowing over 1million migrants to enter Germany.

 

Australia has it right! Unless of course you want to lend a hand and take a couple of hundred thousand to help out.

 

And most of the immigrants are not being persecuted, they are economic in which case they should be resent back home..or to Australia ?

 

 

 

 

[simple1]

9 hours ago, Morch said:

That some European countries chose to open their gates, and expected this would be upheld without issues by other EU members was sheer folly, or at best, a gross political miscalculation. Some things can be compelled or coerced, some can not. All the more so when the EU faces other serious challenges.

In principle I agree. However, I am of the opinion many have lost sight of the circumstances that lead to the decision to waive the Dublin Regulation. i.e. at the time Greece being totally overwhelmed by the huge numbers claiming asylum. As I have said in other topics the red flags were in-place, but Western governments failed to address the issues.

Edited June 25, 2018 by simple1

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, simple1 said:

Why do you find them unacceptable ?

"cause both governments are deliberately eroding the democratic liberal order with zero constructive solutions for replacement of world order policies, nor funding, all negativity, could say nihilist.

 

Could ask you the exact same question.

 

We differ greatly. IMO you and others professing support for politicians and governments who are their core are anti democratic populist nationalist governments (I include the current US Administration) are a greater danger to our societies than asylum seekers / refugees.

 

NB: As previously stated I do not support Open Borders for 'migrants'.

People vote for "politicians and governments who are their core are anti democratic populist nationalist governments" BECAUSE of the open border policies of the current governments. Politicians should remember that their primary purpose is to support their own citizens, not people from other countries.

If voters are moving to the right wing, look no further than current government policy.

It's called democracy!

[simple1]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

People vote for "politicians and governments who are their core are anti democratic populist nationalist governments" BECAUSE of the open border policies of the current governments. Politicians should remember that their primary purpose is to support their own citizens, not people from other countries.

If voters are moving to the right wing, look no further than current government policy.

It's called democracy!

Did Poland, Hungary and so on have Open Borders prior to their recent elections - NO. Might be an idea for you to comprehend the anti democratic forces / actions which enabled these government to gain power, definitely not democracy in play.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, simple1 said:

Did Poland, Hungary and so on have Open Borders prior to their recent elections - NO. Might be an idea for you to comprehend the anti democratic forces / actions which enabled these government to gain power, definitely not democracy in play.

The voters were just making sure that their countries would not have open borders. Stopping it before their leaders could kowtow to Merkel.

[thaibeachlovers]

double post

Edited June 27, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The voters were just making sure that their countries would not have open borders. Stopping it before their leaders could kowtow to Merkel.

Name a Visegrad country who has had a political leader advocating open borders for asylum seekers / refugees - would be political suicide.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Name a Visegrad country who has had a political leader advocating open borders for asylum seekers / refugees - would be political suicide.

That's a deflection. I said "Stopping it before their leaders could kowtow to Merkel". Doesn't matter what their policies were before they were elected, as they could be "persuaded" after to change their policy. The voters making sure the message gets heard by politicians.

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's a deflection. I said "Stopping it before their leaders could kowtow to Merkel". Doesn't matter what their policies were before they were elected, as they could be "persuaded" after to change their policy. The voters making sure the message gets heard by politicians.

Nope - your deflection - no further response