SURVEY: Death Penalty -- More, less or none at all?

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Cadbury said:

Generally speaking I am against the death penalty. The thing that concerns me with "no death penalty" is that those murderers and/or rapists who are released back into the community prematurely just to do the same again. Probably get released because of overcrowding and one less mouth to feed. 

At least if they are put down like a rabid dog they don't get to kill other innocent people again.

 

There was an example of your concerns here a short while ago. An American, a convicted murderer released after serving jail time for shooting someone, violently kills an Australian in a bar, stamping on his head according to reports. He goes to the police and the case is suddenly out of the public eye with no charges. 

 

The two concerns are as you say, killers kill again and in some places the justice system is somewhat lacking. There is nothing to suggest the American killer won't kill again. But seemingly he's off somewhere free as a bird.

[smileydude]

Capital punishment can be useful as a deterrent ONLY if the perpetrators believe that there is a high probability they will be pursued, caught and the due process of law and punishment handed down accordingly.

 

If the police still insist on lax enforcement, cherry picking high profile cases with media coverage,  judicial sentences handed down based on socio-economics and life sentences given pardons etc,  focusing only on the punishment without overhauling the process will only be in vain.

[kannot]

Should be used more worldwide, why stop at Thailand.  Has no deterrent value  but has a  100%  repeat offender value cessation.

[kannot]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

The state should not kill its own citizens. 

Thats ok they could farm it  out to other countries....problem solved and "very Thai"

[monkfish]

To answer the question we need to know why it's been reactivated.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDB using Tapatalk

[KiwiKiwi]

There really is no validity whatever in asking a dissociated populace what they think about anything other than what directly affects them (in which case they are more associated).

 

No point to it at all.

[duanebigsby]

16 minutes ago, kannot said:

Should be used more worldwide, why stop at Thailand.  Has no deterrent value  but has a  100%  repeat offender value cessation.

About 4% of Americans put to death are innocent. I imagine there many political executions in places like China and religious executions in places like Saudi. If the Americans can get 4% wrongfully executed with a good justice system, just think what corrupt countries like Thailand are getting wrong.

[SteveB2]

Go for it - and make the execution public. Reasons?

• Zero repeat offender rate.
• No extended prison or legal expenses.
• Obvious deterrence value among the general public.
• Closure and justice seen to be served for the victims families.
• Humane for the convicted person. (Locking people up for decades like zoo animals is in-humane)
• Reduces prison population reducing in lower costs to the government & tax payer.

It's all good. ?

Edited June 24, 2018 by SteveB2
spelling, punctuation etc.

[kannot]

7 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

About 4% of Americans put to death are innocent. I imagine there many political executions in places like China and religious executions in places like Saudi. If the Americans can get 4% wrongfully executed with a good justice system, just think what corrupt countries like Thailand are getting wrong.

Good  to hear that means 96% got  what they needed...............I know what youre  thinking.

[duanebigsby]

1 minute ago, kannot said:

Good  to hear that means 96% got  what they needed...............I know what youre  thinking.

Yes I realize you know I'm thinking even one wrongfully, murdered by the state innocent person, is one too many.

[Chris Lawrence]

I hope they use it for people farting or not at all.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, kannot said:

Thats ok they could farm it  out to other countries....problem solved and "very Thai"

No.

 

Not really at all.

 

Let me rephrase for the pedants [look up the word if you think it is accusing you of being a sexual predator].

 

States should not kill their own, or other states, citizens.

 

Happy now?

[newatthis]

1 hour ago, SteveB2 said:

Go for it - and make the execution public. Reasons?

• Zero repeat offender rate.
• No extended prison or legal expenses.
• Obvious deterrence value among the general public.
• Closure and justice seen to be served for the victims families.
• Humane for the convicted person. (Locking people up for decades like zoo animals is in-humane)
• Reduces prison population reducing in lower costs to the government & tax payer.

It's all good. ?

1. And it must be carried out by the victim's family. If people are so intent on having a person executed, then they must do it. Stop asking the state to do it for them.
2.  And the method of execution is to be by beheading at public execution. The family member must do this personally. None of this giving a needle or pulling a trigger, it's got to be up there and personal.
3. And if the family cannot do it, then the sentence is life without parole or pardon.

[RT555]

4 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

The state should not kill its own citizens. 

So a Thai guy kills your wife/husband point blank, and you want him/her walking the streets in 15 years? 

What a #&€¢] 

[Bluespunk]

10 minutes ago, RT555 said:

So a Thai guy kills your wife/husband point blank, and you want him/her walking the streets in 15 years? 

What a #&€¢] 

Are you verbally abusing me for having an opinion?

[connda]

1 hour ago, SteveB2 said:

Go for it - and make the execution public. Reasons?

• Zero repeat offender rate.
• No extended prison or legal expenses.
• Obvious deterrence value among the general public.
• Closure and justice seen to be served for the victims families.
• Humane for the convicted person. (Locking people up for decades like zoo animals is in-humane)
• Reduces prison population reducing in lower costs to the government & tax payer.

It's all good. ?

What if you were that one accused of murder and were unable to establish an alibi even though you didn't do it, but because the case takes on a life of it's own and the public wants blood - you become the stone-hearted murderer in every paper, news report, and tabloid - tried and convicted before you ever go to court-  and you know you are innocent.   Some nightmare, 'eh?  Some people are unlucky enough to experience that!  That would sure deter the other innocence murderers! 

But on the bright side for you - no extended prison term , closure for the family (you should be happy, right?), humane for you because you don't have to dwell on the failure of the justice system, good for the tax payer that you don't hang around, and again - no drawn out appeals process or actual search for the truth that may lead to the pesky inconvenience of uncovering your innocence then having to find the actual murderer, no less compensate you for the State's screw up that destroyed your life. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by connda

[Aj Mick]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

While I understand the desire on the part of some to see the death penalty used, especially for the most heinous of crimes, I do not believe it is rational to use it in Thailand because of the Police, the Legal System and the Judiciary.

 

The Police. Is there anyone here who will express high confidence in the abilities, honesty and professionalism of the police? Anyone?

 

The legal system. Inside the legal system, there are clerks who handle evidence, there are CSI technicians, there are administrators, there are court clerks and translators (as required), etc. Is there anyone here who will express high confidence in the abilities, honesty and professionalism of all these people? We all deal with Thai bureaucrats on a regular basis; anyone want to express that confidence?

 

The Judiciary. We have all seen several... dubious decisions by the Judiciary over the years, especially where there are High-Sos and/or money involved. Is there anyone here who will express high confidence in the abilities, honesty and professionalism of the Judiciary? Anyone?

 

If a society wants to have the Death Penalty, then it must have an incredibly effective, honest, professional and competent Police Force, Support People in the Justice System, and Judiciary. Can anyone argue that these things exist in Thailand?

 

Utilizing the Death Penalty in Thailand is madness. Unfortunately, the entire Justice system does not yet rise to the level of competence required to be able to assert that an innocent person would not be executed. And, until you can confidently assert that an innocent person will not be executed, you should not and must not use the Death Penalty.

 

 

Somewhat similar (albeit to varying degrees) around the world.

 

Thus we see attempts in some countries wanting to seem civil by putting wrongs to right with post-humous exonerations (yeah, but when you are dead, you are dead), or exoneration after many years on death row (life already ruined, and little time to achieve anything worthwhile for many).

 

Which is why the majority of the countries of the world have abandoned the death penalty. It has no place in a civilised society.

[The Theory]

6 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

The state should not kill its own citizens. 

Of course:

The state just will watch how citizens kill each other. ?

That would work better ❗️??

 

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, The Theory said:

Of course:

The state just will watch how citizens kill each other. ?

That would work better ❗️??

 

Not for me, it wouldn’t. 

[AGareth2]

1 hour ago, Aj Mick said:

the death penalty. It has no place in a civilised society.

agreed

but some places are not civilised

[ELVIS123456]

2 hours ago, connda said:

What if you were that one accused of murder and were unable to establish an alibi even though you didn't do it, but because the case takes on a life of it's own and the public wants blood - you become the stone-hearted murderer in every paper, news report, and tabloid - tried and convicted before you ever go to court-  and you know you are innocent.   Some nightmare, 'eh?  Some people are unlucky enough to experience that!  That would sure deter the other innocence murderers! 

But on the bright side for you - no extended prison term , closure for the family (you should be happy, right?), humane for you because you don't have to dwell on the failure of the justice system, good for the tax payer that you don't hang around, and again - no drawn out appeals process or actual search for the truth that may lead to the pesky inconvenience of uncovering your innocence then having to find the actual murderer, no less compensate you for the State's screw up that destroyed your life. 

This is the reason why the death penalty should be abolished - everywhere.

Humans make mistakes and humans can be corrupt. 

A man found innocent many years later can be compensated - if he stays in jail. 

A man found innocent after he was executed ,has had everything taken and it cant be compensated or given back.

There is no guarantee that everyone is guilty - history shows many innocent men were executued.

It doesnt matter if 999,999 are right, but only 1 is wrong - that innocent person's life has been taken, and that is all they/we have - and that is unacceptable.

End of story. End of argument.

 

[surreybloke]

Sooo why did we get rid of the rope in the uk ???   Well the answer might be that we  kept hanging the innocent 

Edited June 24, 2018 by surreybloke

[KiwiKiwi]

6 minutes ago, surreybloke said:

Sooo why did we get rid of the rope in the uk ???   Well the answer might be that we  kept hanging the innocent 

 

I think it was a wave of revulsion following the Ruth Ellis hanging at Holloway, plus I suspect the government may have had an early yen to join the EC, and that is now (not sure if it was then) a condition of entry.

 

Plus, of course, as you suggest, the Timothy Evans thing was a debacle. Mentally sub-normal, and innocent, yet there he went, innocence didn't protect him very well...

 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[surreybloke]

Perhaps although I think rillington place might have been used by ludovic Kennedy .        

[MyFriend You]

12 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

While I understand the desire on the part of some to see the death penalty used, especially for the most heinous of crimes, I do not believe it is rational to use it in Thailand because of the Police, the Legal System and the Judiciary.

 

The Police. Is there anyone here who will express high confidence in the abilities, honesty and professionalism of the police? Anyone?

 

The legal system. Inside the legal system, there are clerks who handle evidence, there are CSI technicians, there are administrators, there are court clerks and translators (as required), etc. Is there anyone here who will express high confidence in the abilities, honesty and professionalism of all these people? We all deal with Thai bureaucrats on a regular basis; anyone want to express that confidence?

 

The Judiciary. We have all seen several... dubious decisions by the Judiciary over the years, especially where there are High-Sos and/or money involved. Is there anyone here who will express high confidence in the abilities, honesty and professionalism of the Judiciary? Anyone?

 

If a society wants to have the Death Penalty, then it must have an incredibly effective, honest, professional and competent Police Force, Support People in the Justice System, and Judiciary. Can anyone argue that these things exist in Thailand?

 

Utilizing the Death Penalty in Thailand is madness. Unfortunately, the entire Justice system does not yet rise to the level of competence required to be able to assert that an innocent person would not be executed. And, until you can confidently assert that an innocent person will not be executed, you should not and must not use the Death Penalty.

 

 

It's their country, we don't have a dog in this fight, and our opinions don't make for a hill of beans...........my only hope is they start cleaning house, execute the hundreds on death row, and stop giving bail to people that have been sentenced to death - clear the backlog then re-visit.  I was here in the seventies, death sentences were carried out swiftly, firing squad, all shooters with loaded weapons, and held in public places - local population was required to attend, family had to pay for the bullets.  Violent crimes were almost nil down Sattahip/Rayong way.  

[duanebigsby]

2 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

It's their country, we don't have a dog in this fight, and our opinions don't make for a hill of beans...........my only hope is they start cleaning house, execute the hundreds on death row, and stop giving bail to people that have been sentenced to death - clear the backlog then re-visit.  I was here in the seventies, death sentences were carried out swiftly, firing squad, all shooters with loaded weapons, and held in public places - local population was required to attend, family had to pay for the bullets.  Violent crimes were almost nil down Sattahip/Rayong way.  

What percentage were innocent and how many were political executions?

Yeah not our problem, but we are still allowed to have opinions.

[MyFriend You]

9 hours ago, duanebigsby said:

Thailand has the death penalty.

Did it deter the perpetrator in any way?

No

Could the wrong person be convicted and put to death?

Quite possible especially in Thailand.

It didn't deter them because Thailand hasn't executed anyone in over nine years, if they started speeding up the executions, and stop giving murders and rapists bail after being sentenced to death - irregardless of the circumstances - it be a major deterent..........nothing wrong with ruling with an iron fist once in awhile.

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

It didn't deter them because Thailand hasn't executed anyone in over nine years, if they started speeding up the executions, and stop giving murders and rapists bail after being sentenced to death - irregardless of the circumstances - it be a major deterent..........nothing wrong with ruling with an iron fist once in awhile.

There’s no evidence supporting the claim that the death penalty deters crime. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/04/30/theres-still-no-evidence-that-executions-deter-criminals/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8eac7b1147f8

 

https://amp.businessinsider.com/death-penalty-longer-harsher-sentences-mandatory-minimum-drug-dealers-deter-crime-rate-trump-2018-3

Edited June 24, 2018 by Bluespunk

[sirineou]

It should never being used simply because one should never take anything one can not give back ,when mistaken.

Also why would any sane person voluntarily give politicians the right to legally take their life.

[MyFriend You]

4 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

What percentage were innocent and how many were political executions?

Yeah not our problem, but we are still allowed to have opinions.

no one knows those answers - not a country on this planet can say with exact certainty that anyone convicted of a crime is 100% guilty...........its like trying to answer a 5 year old child's question, "What came first, the chicken or the egg" no one really knows the answer to that as well.    guilty based on 'the preponderance of evidence' is the key term here, we ar human, until we are replaced with robots 'whatever will be, will be'