How it plays out, for the end game...

[swissie]

13 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Most people I have met here have no plan for nothing.

 

No health insurance.

No plan if they are incapacitated.

No plan for long term care.

No plan for their death.

No will or trust.

 

These are people that have decent money but generally seem it is all not important.

The most common answer I get is so naive which is: My Embassy will take care of everything.

 

 

 

My obsvervance as well. No plan for nothing.

Could be :
- After me, the Deluge.
- I "self-insure".     Upon their demise, their Thai-Account shows a balance of $ 1.25 for "self-insurance" purposes.
- Upon arrival in Thailand, (due to more gravity than anywhere else on this planet), their brain relocates in a bodily aerea that is usually covered by underwear.
Cheers.

[swissie]

11 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

That is a bit cheaper than my mother pays for her 24/7 live-in care in the UK.  She's paying about 4500 Euro a month, plus all the extra food and utilities that her live in care use.  

She doesn't have any insurance to cover it so she's paying out of her own pocket.  

Unfortunately she would never agree to being moved from her house in the UK to Thailand, despite having lived over 25 years in Hong Kong and having spent many holidays in Thailand going back 30 years or so. 

Quote: "Unfortunately she would never agree to being moved from her house in the UK to Thailand, despite having lived over 25 years in Hong Kong and having spent many holidays in Thailand going back 30 years or so."

 

 With all her experience in Asia going back 30 years. Maybe your mother is wiser than the rest of us.......
Cheers.

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

I am  discussing Thai healthcare because in my opinion is a joke. I don't respect it. I don't think it's good.

We are all entitled to our opinions. What I see is:

• government hospitals (and even worse clinics) upcountry often provide substandard care, but the better government hospitals are really surprisingly good, albeit very busy;
• the costs at private hospitals have steadily increased, and are now frankly outrageous at some; costs are still reasonable for the highest international standards at some: you need to carefully choose your doctor though;
• you can almost always see a specialist in the area in which you need treatment the same day which is certainly not the case with most Western health services;
• the standard of nursing, if you need to be admitted to hospital is outstanding here

[mduras01]

15 hours ago, elgenon said:

My friend, a retired pilot, had an "anchor" that he treated very well (bought her a house) as well as her son who has a disability. He stressed she was hi-so. Well, he developed Alzheimer's and she took her son and fled. Sad that things are not always what they appear to be. Good luck to you.

A hi so woman doesn't need a house in Thailand. Maybe one in your home country. Or maybe she'll buy you one. Besides, how many friends do you know bought a house for their anchors back in their home country? So...why do it here?

Edited June 26, 2018 by mduras01

[swissie]

19 minutes ago, mduras01 said:

A hi so woman doesn't need a house in Thailand. Maybe one in your home country. Or maybe she'll buy you one. Besides, how many friends do you know bought a house for their anchors back in their home country? So...why do it here?

Testosterone levels increase in tandem with higher temperatures. Must be, otherwise there would be no other logical explanation.

Cheers.

[micmichd]

18 hours ago, NancyL said:

There is no age at which you are able to stop doing 90 day reports or annual extensions.  However, as mentioned, someone else can do the 90 day reports for you and Imm. is cooperative about having someone help you with the annual extensions if you're elderly or infirm.  

 

However, sometimes elderly people go on overstay due to dementia, illness or just plain cussedness.  Used to be they could do a border hop, pay the max 20,000 baht fine and start over again.  No so anymore with a long overstay.  Usually they don't get into trouble until they develop a medical problem and have to go into long-term care.  Now the nursing homes/assisted living facilities won't accept a new resident on overstay, even if they have the ability to pay.  A few will, if there is a plan in place for them to return to their home country soon.  Yes, I've helped guys in their 80s to repatriate because of long overstay and the unwillingness of a care facility to accept them long-term.  

 

Since the change in the overstay rules, Chiang Mai immigration visits the care facilities periodically and checks on the visa status of the residents.  Some were on "defacto" medical extensions prior to the change in the overstay policy when actually they were on long-term overstay.  Those residents are permitted to stay, but they and anyone who is at the facility on a "medical extension" and not a retirement or marriage extension isn't permitted to leave the grounds, even to go out to lunch with friends or on the weekly shopping trip with the other residents.  This makes them essentially prisoners of the assisted living center for the rest of their life.

What's the difference to the West?

Once a doctor says you're not able to care for yourself outside a hospital, you're a prisoner there. And you can get incacipated and forced to stay there if you show what mental doctors call "runaway tendencies" 

[Wake Up]

On 6/25/2018 at 4:38 PM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

Don’t take this personally but I have a friend that has lived in BKK in a nice condo for over 10 years. He is proudly expert on everything thai and happy to state so. It was not until I met some thai friends (men and women poor and middle class) that I realized his thai advice was utter bs. You brag you have a thai wife that supports you blah blah blah but you remind me of him and IMO have a lot of 100 percent wrong information about Thailand including your alleged knowledge of Thai nursing homes. Medical care is the reason a lot of people live here and it is not expensive compared to the western world and IMO superior service and costs. 

[seancbk]

8 hours ago, swissie said:

Quote: "Unfortunately she would never agree to being moved from her house in the UK to Thailand, despite having lived over 25 years in Hong Kong and having spent many holidays in Thailand going back 30 years or so."

 

 With all her experience in Asia going back 30 years. Maybe your mother is wiser than the rest of us.......
Cheers.

 

No, she's just overly proud of the 6 bedroom Georgian house my father bought when they returned to the UK and doesn't want to leave it.  She also has mid/late stage dementia (the same thing that killed my father) and a lot of her remaining memories are tied to the house and all the things in it.   

Pulling her out of her environment and putting her in a condo in Bangkok with round the clock care wouldn't be fair.   Better she lives out her life where she is and gets cremated where my father was.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

16 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

Don’t take this personally but I have a friend that has lived in BKK in a nice condo for over 10 years. He is proudly expert on everything thai and happy to state so. It was not until I met some thai friends (men and women poor and middle class) that I realized his thai advice was utter bs. You brag you have a thai wife that supports you blah blah blah but you remind me of him and IMO have a lot of 100 percent wrong information about Thailand including your alleged knowledge of Thai nursing homes. Medical care is the reason a lot of people live here and it is not expensive compared to the western world and IMO superior service and costs. 

 

 

I am not taking anything personally here. I just try to state facts, which I admit some are mostly from reading this forum.

 

Do you not agree that most Westerners when $ht hits the fan can't pay hospital bills, set up gofundme campaigns and try to fly back home to their "third world" healthcare? And I am not only talking about tourists?

 

I don't see why nursing homes keeps coming up in this topic. The OP never asked anything about nursing homes. Certainly no one I know in my family ever spent any time in a nursing home. Maybe nursing homes are better (read cheaper) in Thailand, but the vast majority will not use them at all.

 

And my wife doesn't support me... where on earth did you get that from? I just reply to clueless handsome men who married Pattaya bargirls that not everyone is "paying for it". 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wake Up]

7 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

 

I am not taking anything personally here. I just try to state facts, which I admit some are mostly from reading this forum.

 

Do you not agree that most Westerners when $ht hits the fan can't pay hospital bills, set up gofundme campaigns and try to fly back home to their "third world" healthcare? And I am not only talking about tourists?

 

I don't see why nursing homes keeps coming up in this topic. The OP never asked anything about nursing homes. Certainly no one I know in my family ever spent any time in a nursing home. Maybe nursing homes are better (read cheaper) in Thailand, but the vast majority will not use them at all.

 

And my wife doesn't support me... where on earth did you get that from? I just reply to clueless handsome men who married Pattaya bargirls that not everyone is "paying for it". 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go fund guys and gals does not describe Thailand health care. They describe people who are injured or killed and broke and no insurance. I don’t like statistics because statistics lie but 20 percent of Thailand tourism is for health care. Granted a portion of that is cosmetic but most cosmetic clients are now headed to Korea and Switzerland or France. 

 

But the quakity of doctors and nurses in private hospitals in Thailand is outstanding and cheap compared to western care. And much more pleasant. The quality of care for Thais that pay 30 baht is pretty good also except they have to wait a couple hours and it is not the cleanest facility. But the poor health care in other countries is much worse with much longer wait times. 

 

When people plan for older age many things comes into the equation and health care is a big factor. If Thailand’s health care was poor most expats wtihout kids and who can actually afford a retirement would love elsewhere including myself. I don’t have USA Medicare yet but I know quite a few expats that bypass the USA free healthcare because they can afford the great painless inexpensive health care in Thailand. Does not mean free healthcare or cheap for working Thai people but if you have any assets at all for retirement that are adequate then you have access to excellent healthcare here for a lot less money than the West with the exception of some countries free health care. Personally I think as I get older the Thailand health care will keep me here as the facilities and service is great and for me and most expats that has good jobs extremely affordable.  

 

And for a thai girl I took to the hospital one time and paid her 120 baht bill she got great care for a bad sickness. Much better than she would have gotten in USA even though she thought they overcharged me 50 baht. 

 

If you have no money, no insurance and no assets then maybe Thailand is not for you but I don’t know what country to send you to. 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

36 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

 

 

But the quakity of doctors and nurses in private hospitals in Thailand is outstanding and cheap compared to western care. And much more pleasant.

 

I disagree. If everything is by the book and you have routine surgeries, then yes.... perhaps it is equal to Western healthcare. If there is some additional reading to be done or effort to make a proper diagnosis then I don't trust them at all. 

 

I had a pleasant endoscopy done here in the private hospital. Really, the guy was gentle and a pro. I cracked my head about 8 months ago which I documented on this forum and again received a good treatment. Even the price of MRI scan (wasn't covered) came to 8000 baht which was nothing considering the emergency.

 

My problem is with a lot of clueless doctors who will prescribe wrong medication, make a wrong diagnosis, give you a bunch of pills that will just make you feel worse and think they are correct..... and can you really argue with them in a country where face is everything? What about a surgery goes wrong? In the west you can sue the doctors and at the very least have the problems fixed free off charge. Every single incident I read on Thai Visa it was always the patients fault and doctors would not take any responsibility.

 

I don't trust them.

 

 

[hemskasven01]

Most people I have met here have no plan for nothing.
 
No health insurance.
No plan if they are incapacitated.
No plan for long term care.
No plan for their death.
No will or trust.
 
These are people that have decent money but generally seem it is all not important.
The most common answer I get is so naive which is: My Embassy will take care of everything.
 
 
 

Sorry you met this type of people. You will see in some way they also will die. They are only that kind who doesn't worry.

Skickat från min Mi A1 via Tapatalk

[Wake Up]

3 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

I disagree. If everything is by the book and you have routine surgeries, then yes.... perhaps it is equal to Western healthcare. If there is some additional reading to be done or effort to make a proper diagnosis then I don't trust them at all. 

 

I had a pleasant endoscopy done here in the private hospital. Really, the guy was gentle and a pro. I cracked my head about 8 months ago which I documented on this forum and again received a good treatment. Even the price of MRI scan (wasn't covered) came to 8000 baht which was nothing considering the emergency.

 

My problem is with a lot of clueless doctors who will prescribe wrong medication, make a wrong diagnosis, give you a bunch of pills that will just make you feel worse and think they are correct..... and can you really argue with them in a country where face is everything? What about a surgery goes wrong? In the west you can sue the doctors and at the very least have the problems fixed free off charge. Every single incident I read on Thai Visa it was always the patients fault and doctors would not take any responsibility.

 

I don't trust them.

 

 

Ok if you read it on thai Visa then it must be true. Sorry but could not resist.? we agree to disagree.  

 

IMO and experience there are many many many highly trained doctors and surgeons in BKK  at 20 percent of the costs or less of usa care and they are on time, professionally nice, not overworked, quick appointments, excellent nurses and excellent care.   I have heard of Canadian citizens ( spoke to one in the waiting room) coming to BKK for eye surgery at Rutkin eye hospital in BKK. Whether Canada paid or the Canadian citizen paid I don’t know but he acted like he was not the only one. 

 

As advanced as the USA is with technology and making money and getting an education, Thailand is far more progressive in providing health care to Thai citizens and providing excellent health care to expats at a cheap price comparably.  Once I reach age 65 I will have to decide on Medicare Part B or stay in Thailand. But no question exists my health care insurance and health care bills are much cheaper here and same or better quality service IMO. 

[Wake Up]

3 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

I disagree. If everything is by the book and you have routine surgeries, then yes.... perhaps it is equal to Western healthcare. If there is some additional reading to be done or effort to make a proper diagnosis then I don't trust them at all. 

 

I had a pleasant endoscopy done here in the private hospital. Really, the guy was gentle and a pro. I cracked my head about 8 months ago which I documented on this forum and again received a good treatment. Even the price of MRI scan (wasn't covered) came to 8000 baht which was nothing considering the emergency.

 

My problem is with a lot of clueless doctors who will prescribe wrong medication, make a wrong diagnosis, give you a bunch of pills that will just make you feel worse and think they are correct..... and can you really argue with them in a country where face is everything? What about a surgery goes wrong? In the west you can sue the doctors and at the very least have the problems fixed free off charge. Every single incident I read on Thai Visa it was always the patients fault and doctors would not take any responsibility.

 

I don't trust them.

 

 

Ok if you read it on thai Visa then it must be true. Sorry but could not resist.? we agree to disagree.  

 

IMO and experience there are many many many highly trained doctors and surgeons in BKK  at 20 percent of the costs or less of usa care and they are on time, professionally nice, not overworked, quick appointments, excellent nurses and excellent care.   I have heard of Canadian citizens ( spoke to one in the waiting room) coming to BKK for eye surgery at Rutkin eye hospital in BKK. Whether Canada paid or the Canadian citizen paid I don’t know but he acted like he was not the only one. 

 

As advanced as the USA is with technology and making money and getting an education, Thailand is far more progressive in providing health care to Thai citizens and providing excellent health care to expats at a cheap price comparably.  Once I reach age 65 I will have to decide on Medicare Part B or stay in Thailand. But no question exists my health care insurance and health care bills are much cheaper here and same or better quality service IMO. 

[peleid]

Both my parents went into care homes in the UK and never came out.

 

I swore to myself that I would never go into a care home in the UK. If you have never had experience of this you would not understand.

 

My best friend had home help in Thailand, until he eventually died. Take it from me there is no comparison

[Horace]

To address the OP's questions, why don't we just assume he's talking about an American, since Americans have crappy and expensive healthcare for the elderly? 

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

My problem is with a lot of clueless doctors who will prescribe wrong medication, make a wrong diagnosis, give you a bunch of pills that will just make you feel worse and think they are correct..... and can you really argue with them in a country where face is everything? What about a surgery goes wrong? In the west you can sue the doctors and at the very least have the problems fixed free off charge. Every single incident I read on Thai Visa it was always the patients fault and doctors would not take any responsibility.

As I noted in my earlier post, it is wise to be selective about the doctors you use (which few people actually are). However, although you may eventually see a very good specialist in the West, a referral may take months, as opposed to seeing the doctor of your choice often the same day in Thailand. I disagree that the average general practitioner or junior hospital doctor is substantially better than Thai doctors in private hospitals (the majority of whom are US or UK trained) bearing in mind how overworked doctors are in the West. I think you are very optimistic in assuming a general practitioner in a Western country is going to spend a lot of time researching information on your condition.

[StevieAus]

On 6/25/2018 at 4:38 PM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

Interesting as I know two Canadians who give a completely opposite story to you and are retired here as it is more affordable for the care needed.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

2 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

Interesting as I know two Canadians who give a completely opposite story to you and are retired here as it is more affordable for the care needed.

 

Yes, they all do until something serious happens. 

[greenchair]

On 6/25/2018 at 4:38 PM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

That's really sweet that you bought a condo for your mum instead of some thai tart that you just met. 

Do like the Thai. 

Take care of your own first. 

[Ks45672]

On 6/25/2018 at 4:38 PM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

Are you talking about the interest rates alone or the principle? 

[Paul944]

If you get in need of expensive healthcare to stay alive or keep a good live quality then living outside your home country can just become too expensive. So it depends on the healthcare your home country offers and how much money you can spend on your health. People without funds leave Thailand to get health care offered by their home country social security system, will be kicked out Thailand after the money is depleted or die before all the money is gone.

 

Example a 85 year old woman living in the Netherlands gets a new knee and hip paid by her health insurance (4000 baht a month). Cost of this in Thailand will be about 2 million baht I guess. If you develop a cancer that can be treated to prolong your live, your savings will eventually run out in Thailand. So you you do not choose to leave or to stop the treatment, you choose to die.

 

If you really want to live in Thailand at your old age, why not apply for a permanent residency. No more visits to the immigration office.

[NancyL]

1 minute ago, Paul944 said:

......

If you really want to live in Thailand at your old age, why not apply for a permanent residency. No more visits to the immigration office.

It's impossible to obtain permanent residency in Thailand if you arrive here as a retiree.  You have to have worked for a period of time and paid income taxes in Thailand to even be considered.  There are many other requirements, such as community service, knowledge of the Thai language, etc that are difficult for foreign retirees to fulfill.  

[StevieAus]

On 6/28/2018 at 7:55 AM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Yes, they all do until something serious happens. 

Each to their own

[bkk6060]

12 hours ago, NancyL said:

It's impossible to obtain permanent residency in Thailand if you arrive here as a retiree.  You have to have worked for a period of time and paid income taxes in Thailand to even be considered.  There are many other requirements, such as community service, knowledge of the Thai language, etc that are difficult for foreign retirees to fulfill.  

If a foreinger marries a Thai lady and stays here does he get free medical care at government hospitals?

Edited June 30, 2018 by bkk6060

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

If a foreinger marries a Thai lady and stays here does he get free medical care at government hospitals?

In most cases no.

If their wife was worked for a company or the government they could be covered under their insurance benefits.

[Odysseus123]

12 hours ago, NancyL said:

It's impossible to obtain permanent residency in Thailand if you arrive here as a retiree.  You have to have worked for a period of time and paid income taxes in Thailand to even be considered.  There are many other requirements, such as community service, knowledge of the Thai language, etc that are difficult for foreign retirees to fulfill.  

Very sane,sensible and informative posts.Thank you.

 

Most foreigners that I met had few (if any) plans and two died in absolute squalor.

Wife departs,money dries up,nowhere to go...a room,a shack and a bamboo bed.

 

If you have enough funds to cover the cost of health care then fair enough otherwise the loss (or non procurement) of health insurance leads only in one direction.