Former Thai PM Thaksin: "I'm Calling It Quits"

[younghusband]

This discussion on the Moony influence on the Economist's editorial policy is getting too silly to continue.Plus has taken a leaf out of the Imtiaz Muqbil playbook, ie seizing on an insignificant connection and placing it centre stage.Those who want to believe will do so:those who recognise a crock of nonsense will do so.It's a very South Asian kind of conspiracy theory.

Let's see if the story has legs or just remains a part of a PAD ideologue's inflamed imagination.

[hammered]

Police called on to hunt down Thaksin

Prosecution prepares to request his extradition

The prosecution yesterday called on police to track down fugitive former PM Thaksin after he decided not to appeal a guilty verdict. Fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra is now said to be in Dubai in the UAE. Sirisak Tiyaphan, Director-General of the Attorney-General's International Affairs Dept., said the police should start looking for Thaksin and inform the prosecution of his whereabouts. According to Sirisak, the police should coordinate with the Foreign Ministry and their missions overseas in locating Thaksin. The prosecution would closely follow up with the police, he said. Sirisak said that an extradition request has been drafted, ready to be adapted to fit the extradition laws of any country where Thaksin seeks exile. He noted that lack of an extradition treaty with a country in which Thaksin stays is not necessarily an obstacle as Thailand could offer a reciprocal deal. Thaksin's latest whereabouts is said to be Dubai, which has no extradition treaty with Thailand. Seksan Bangsomboon, the Chief Public Prosecutor, said the land case is final. He said he will submit Thaksin's document in which he waived his appeal to Mr Sirisak for use in seeking the extradition. The convicted ex-PM's phone-in to the Truth Today talk show at the Supachalasai stadium has been pushed forward by one day to Dec 13 from Dec 14. PPP MP Jatuporn Promphan, also a host of the talk show, said organisers moved the show forward a day, which Thaksin agreed to. Jatuporn said the highlight of Thaksin's phone-in will involve his plan to fight to return to politics.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/201108_News/20Nov2008_news03.php

Before gettinjg overly excited at extradition even leaving the office lets bear in mind the AG has dumped a few cases against Thaksin that were thought to have stronger evidence while forwarding some thought ot have weaker evidence....

"The police are on Thaksins side" to quote a fairly senior police officer to me personally and quite openly I may add.

I am starting to think the odious Jatuporn spends most of his time going down on Thakisn. The hero worship is beyond what is necessary even for most PPP/TRT/UDD paid functionaries. On a technical constitutional level I do wonder what the standing of an MP is when he clearly refuses to accept the decisions of the judiciary. Even Somchai avoids this by refusing to comment but Jatuporn who swears an oath then refuses to accept part of the constitutional system of the country he is an MP for and would rather take the mullah and orders form a convicted criminal. Bear in mind technically and legally and constiitutionally this is irrefutably the case that Jatuporn is acting as an agent of a criminal and refusing to accept decisons within the democrsacy of Thailand that he is an MP of. I wonder how that would go down in any other democracy. I wonder why Jatuporn describes himself as a defender of democracy especially as the client he represents is also by any international standard the person who would have to answer for the drug war extra-judical slaughter which was the single biggest slaughter of innocents (democracies state one is innocent until proven guilty) in recent Thai history with even 1992 and 1976 paling in terms of pure body counts.

[Plus]

Moon's connection explains the suddent reverse in Economist views on Thaksin.

Maybe he didn't cause it, maybe he did. If there's a better explanation, I'd like to hear it.

It doesn't prove anything, it just looks very suspect.

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand only gets small stories printed about it about once every couple of months,

Actually they have one or two stories EVERY week.

Majority of them are written in Hong Kong, where Moon was a star.

It's not too difficult for him to slip one or two favourable stories every now and then if he has good relationships with the editors.

Don't forget that at one point Thaksin has actually hired a PR firm to create an image of democracy defender in the international media.

>>>

From the following paragraphs it doesn't look like they gave him support for being pro-business:

"THIS newspaper has never been a great fan of Thaksin Shinawatra, Thailand's embattled prime minister. His rise to power was fuelled by money, and his money obtained in part by patronage. When, in early 2001, he was on the point of winning his first election, we compared him to Italy's Silvio Berlusconi. It was not intended as a compliment.

In office, Mr Thaksin has been a mixed blessing. He has handled the economy reasonably efficiently, and has therefore managed to afford the extravagant handouts with which he wooed the rural electorate in 2001, and again last year. In other spheres, though, his touch has been much less sure. Sheer governmental incompetence, for example, is the main reason why discontent in Thailand's Muslim south has bubbled over into insurrection and bloodshed..."

http://www.economist.com/research/articles...y_id=E1_VVSVNPN

Their support for him when discontent forced people on the streets was a big surprise for everyone. Suddenly they believed he was a champion of democracy.

Or could it be that in their considerable experience (First Published in 1843), that countries tend to work better and prosper when legal systems are blind to all defendants and that governments are changed with the ballot box as opposed to guns and street protests.

The various articles that many have read are tend to bemoan and highlight the failures and peculiarities of the system rather than eulogise Thaksin as an individual.

I don't have to be a Thaksin lover to dislike the PAD or military governments. At least one good thing may have come out of this whole mess and it is that the military got themselves into such a mess the last time round that they appear to have realised that the best place for them is in the barracks and not in government. Unfortunately, the current situation seems to be setting the precedent of allowing people to break the law if it is supposed to possess the moral high ground.

[sriracha john]

Plotting a vengeful return to power via mob rule?

It may have come as a big surprise for PPP MPs when deposed PM Thaksin told them last Friday that he had divorced his wife. However, for those keeping an eye on the couple's political endeavours and how they have dealt with political problems, the divorce was not something out of the blue. It was just another tactic employed to pave the way for their fight to return to power. Thaksin told his close aides, "[We divorced, so that] my wife and children would not have to keep moving from one place to another. From now on, I won't have to be worried about them. I have no choice. Even though I've stopped, they did not stop killing me." Of course, "they" meant his enemies, and "kill" did not literally mean murder, but political assassination. On Nov 1, when he phoned into The Truth Today talk show, Thaksin was overwhelmed by the positive response from his supporters. However, the government of the UK where he and his family had lived in exile consequently revoked his and his wife's visas on Nov 7. After that, he divorced his wife on Nov 14. After the visa revocation, Thaksin has been more cautious. He delayed and reduced the frequency of his phone-in talks on community radio programs in the North and Northeast. Initially, Thaksin planned to phone in to talk to his supporters at the Truth Today gathering to be held at Wat Suan Kaew on Nov 23. The plan was eventually postponed to Dec 14, and the venue will now be the National Stadium in Bangkok. Thaksin seems to have concluded that his political games in the past were not aggressive enough. As a result, his political opponents in Thailand had grabbed the upper hand and revved up their game in the hope of completely toppling his so-called regime by the end of next month. In his opinion, the first strike from his opponents would be the possible dissolution of the PPP by the Constitution Court and subsequent five-year political ban on its 37 executives, similar to that faced by the 111 former executives of the dissolved TRT Party. The second strike would be the NCCC charge against 28 members of the Samak Cabinet, which includes incumbent PM Somchai. In the latter case, Thaksin and his cronies know well that the Samak Cabinet will not survive the NCCC axe. "They must try to kill us all," Thaksin was quoted telling his PPP members and followers who flocked to visit him in Hong Kong both before and after his divorce. Thaksin has since left Hong Kong for Dubai. Thaksin is convinced PM Somchai will either be banned from politics or charged by the NCCC. What he could not be sure of, is which would come first. Anyhow, he has plotted a plan to accommodate the dissolution of PPP. The new PM would be someone who can avoid the legal traps and over whom he can exert complete control. An immediate way out for the PPP after its dissolution could be the transferring of MPs, who do not face a political ban, to the newly-founded Puea Thai Party (PTP). This way out would not be a long-term solution for the Party, however. Thaksin views the new set of PTP Thai executives to be appointed soon, as the fourth generation of his political heirs. Among them are his younger sister Yingluck, his younger brother Payap, and his cousin General Chaisit, who was appointed Army Chief while Thaksin was the PM. Thaksin is

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/201108_News/20Nov2008_news16.php

Edited November 20, 2008 by sriracha john

[animatic]

So he's on a do or die mission to resurrect his fortunes, and Potty wanted out.

He left politics as long as it was politically expedient to leave politics.

Now his only move is real violent confrontation. Scary huh?

What can he gain by talking? ZIP!

There will be an election shortly; will he be allowed to buy it again?

I think any election will be stalled until enough of his pawns are neutered

that a less corrupt outcome is probable. Between now and then,

he can pin hopes on his army and police factions but not much else.

But will his loyalists risk mutany for him?

Talk shows drum up street noise, or point to targets for street led attacks.

Plausible deniability: 'But I only named my enemies, I never said go get them...'

Right and pigs can fly.

He is a megalomaniac desperate for something to CONTROL,

and all that's left is 'The Street' so that must be his next move.

The street can harass the judiciary and ex-military factions harass PAD

undercover of dis-information campaigns.

But what can REALLY open the door for Dr. T. to come back in control?

What creates such chaos that he thinks he can regain an upper hand through it?

How deep does his madness for revenge run these days?

A cornered animal is more dangerous and more vicious

than one who can just back way and leave.

Thaksin says himself, he feels cornered...

so where does he attack first?

Edited November 20, 2008 by animatic

[sriracha john]

Thaksin or Pojaman might return on December 25

People Power Party MP Pracha Prasopdee on Thursday hinted that either former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra or his ex-wife Pojaman might return from exile on or before December 25.

"Just carefully monitor Thaksin's phone-in on December 13 and see what will happen on December 25 when someone is supposed to arrive by a THAI flight from Hong Kong to Suvanabhumi Airport at 9.45 am," he said.

Pracha said Thaksin's opponents should respect the justice system, otherwise the situation might trigger bloodshed.

If Thaksin returns, the authorities are obligated to arrest and send him to jail but before doing that, they should take precautions because a large number of supporters will turn up to rally behind him, he said.

He said he saw no reason why Thaksin would not be willing to serve his jail term.

If the country is to overcome its political predicament, all sides should support the passage of a legislation granting amnesty to rival camps, he said, arguing that the draft legislation should be on a fast track for debate at the next House session in January.

The amnesty would allow a fresh start for all sides, including the People's Alliance for Democracy and is the only hope to overcome turmoil, he said.

- The Nation / 2008-11-20

[jackspratt]

Moon's connection explains the suddent reverse in Economist views on Thaksin.

Maybe he didn't cause it, maybe he did. If there's a better explanation, I'd like to hear it.

It doesn't prove anything, it just looks very suspect.

Plus, a neutral observer could make the same observation about your paranoid pursuit of this point.

I am a subscriber to the Economist, and read it from cover to cover every week. Whilst I am not totally in agreement with their editorial line on the situation in Thailand (and other issues from time to time), it has never occurred to me for a moment that a respected publication which is read worldwide would compromise its independence, and reputation gained over more than 160 years, by supporting someone as inconsequential as Thaksin.

Their support is about democracy. Despite what you or I might think about the situation, the Economist doesn't like what has happened in Thailand - no more, no less.

Edited November 20, 2008 by jackspratt

[animatic]

Thaksin or Pojaman might return on December 25

People Power Party MP Pracha Prasopdee on Thursday hinted that either former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra or his ex-wife Pojaman might return from exile on or before December 25.

"Just carefully monitor Thaksin's phone-in on December 13 and see what will happen on December 25 when someone is supposed to arrive by a THAI flight from Hong Kong to Suvanabhumi Airport at 9.45 am," he said.

Pracha said Thaksin's opponents should respect the justice system, otherwise the situation might trigger bloodshed.

If Thaksin returns, the authorities are obligated to arrest and send him to jail but before doing that, they should take precautions because a large number of supporters will turn up to rally behind him, he said.

He said he saw no reason why Thaksin would not be willing to serve his jail term.

If the country is to overcome its political predicament, all sides should support the passage of a legislation granting amnesty to rival camps, he said, arguing that the draft legislation should be on a fast track for debate at the next House session in January.

The amnesty would allow a fresh start for all sides, including the People's Alliance for Democracy and is the only hope to overcome turmoil, he said.

- The Nation / 2008-11-20

So there's the deal on the table.

All sides go back to square one, but that includes a blanket pass for Thaksin too.

Status quo for corruption and the whole shooting match of course.

No progress and Thacky runs the game again.

Yes, fast track it and see who salutes!

It's that or war in the streets is the implicit threat.

We'll let PAD off their counts, if you let Thaksin and TRT and PPP

and all the others off before dissolution too.

I doubt PAD will bite at this fishy hook.

PS

if he is found to be on an incoming plane,

it WILL be diverted to an inconspicuous airbase.

I'll be home from Christmas, You can count on me!

Edited November 20, 2008 by animatic

[Plus]

Yeah, reputation. Right.

Remember how Thaksin put Elite Card ads on CNN International without any paperwork of any kind?

Earlier today I looked at the local response to Ecomist's "blow to democracy" article, I can't be bothered looking it up again, but lots of people were left speechless.

And guess what, it was exactly the same argument - the Economist got reputation, bla bla bla. Surely Hong Kong office can slip a little story that no one outside Thailand would notice if they've got the right people working there.

Again, earlier, when looking at Moon's resume I saw an awesome name list of people he got to his conferences - from Lee Kwang Yun to Clinton - he wasn't a nibble boy there, I bet he was one of the most inspiring guys around at that time. To think that it wasn't in his power to slip a favourable article on one of his clients in the publication he works for is extreme naivety.

Maybe he didn't, but if there is another explanaiton for Economist's sudden u-turn on Thaksin - let's hear it. There were very detached about PAD, too, even during their royalist push in the late 2005. Then, in Feb-March, the hel_l broke loose and Thaksin became a beacon of democracy while everyone else, from PAD to Democrats, were out to destroy it.

[Thai at Heart]

Yeah, reputation. Right.

Remember how Thaksin put Elite Card ads on CNN International without any paperwork of any kind?

Earlier today I looked at the local response to Ecomist's "blow to democracy" article, I can't be bothered looking it up again, but lots of people were left speechless.

And guess what, it was exactly the same argument - the Economist got reputation, bla bla bla. Surely Hong Kong office can slip a little story that no one outside Thailand would notice if they've got the right people working there.

Again, earlier, when looking at Moon's resume I saw an awesome name list of people he got to his conferences - from Lee Kwang Yun to Clinton - he wasn't a nibble boy there, I bet he was one of the most inspiring guys around at that time. To think that it wasn't in his power to slip a favourable article on one of his clients in the publication he works for is extreme naivety.

Maybe he didn't, but if there is another explanaiton for Economist's sudden u-turn on Thaksin - let's hear it. There were very detached about PAD, too, even during their royalist push in the late 2005. Then, in Feb-March, the hel_l broke loose and Thaksin became a beacon of democracy while everyone else, from PAD to Democrats, were out to destroy it.

As I said, send them a letter and ask how to explain their concept of "New Politics" is anyway different from the Chinese Politburo system.

You are confusing an appreciation of the benefits of democracy with loving Thaksin.

Democracy also brings with it controls that Thailand didn't have and Thaksin was able to run straight through them. These were also the same controls put in place for years that others ran straight through to make themselves enormously rich. The biggest difference is that he had a very valuable company that was only worth something to a foreign bidder.

Military coups and street demonstrations with dodgy policies are in the long term no way to run a country. This ideal is no better than corrupt elections. Clean up the elections. Empower the judges. Take a leaf out of all the countries that have functioning parliamentary systems. Pay the PM 100mn baht a year. I don't care, but I don't believe the outcome from the standoff or probable fight right now will deliver a functioning system if the PAD prevails. People will be back on the streets with the added bonus of knowing that illegal civil disobedience should be allowed by any future government.

The best minds of Thailand have sat down many (I forget how many but I remember 17) times to make a constitution and it has been railroaded or ousted by the military. It is amazing that as we are lectured as foreigners and been told we don't understand Thai culture but Thai's have managed without too much trouble to wangle their way around the rules to commandeer parliamentary democracy for 70/80 years to their own end. Maybe this is a time when they should just copy another constitution from another part of the world instead of insisting that "Thailand is different,".

The big difference with Thaksin was that he appealed to people who aren't supposed to matter in the Thai system. So be it. No amount of flag waving and shirt wearing will turn the clock back. He stirred up the pot and got elected. In the long term it is absolutely irrelevant whether he paid 100 or 1000 baht per vote. The poor want more, and they expect that a government to take care of them better than they have. I don't blame them, they have nothing to lose.

The worst thing that could ever happen for Thailand is that the people in charge pretend that those that voted for Thaksin don't exist because I fear that this situation could run for 30 years. If you think that buying the Economist can change the ideas of rice farmers, strewth; they have been raped for 100 years; please come with me next week and I will take you on a guided tour of Isaan to see that people out there desperately need help. Thaksin probably wasn't the right guy, but they will follow anyone who gives them an ounce of hope.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[tig28]

Just look at this clown:

Acting Executive Director Sam Moon.

His resume includes The Economist, Dow Jones (publisher of Wall Street Journal), and Business Week.

http://www.tembusupartners.com/AboutTembus...44/Default.aspx

I agree this guy hasn't exactly got an intelligent looking face!

But just for the record I don't think he has had any editorial or journalistic background on the newspapers/journals named, just organising conferences.

Yeah, who's seriously going to hire Vin Diesel to run their Hong Kong PR office.

Maybe a penny stock boiler-room...

Congratulations !!!! Really fine work. Mocking the guys appearance -------- you should hang your heads in shame. If you don't like his position (as you strive to see it) try to target your attacks a little higher than this crap. This is real kindergarten stuff!!

Why don't you high minded social critics publish your MUGS ---- maybe he would like a shot at you.

You have achieved a new low .......... sad.

[tig28]

Yeah, reputation. Right.

Remember how Thaksin put Elite Card ads on CNN International without any paperwork of any kind?

Earlier today I looked at the local response to Ecomist's "blow to democracy" article, I can't be bothered looking it up again, but lots of people were left speechless.

And guess what, it was exactly the same argument - the Economist got reputation, bla bla bla. Surely Hong Kong office can slip a little story that no one outside Thailand would notice if they've got the right people working there.

Again, earlier, when looking at Moon's resume I saw an awesome name list of people he got to his conferences - from Lee Kwang Yun to Clinton - he wasn't a nibble boy there, I bet he was one of the most inspiring guys around at that time. To think that it wasn't in his power to slip a favourable article on one of his clients in the publication he works for is extreme naivety.

Maybe he didn't, but if there is another explanaiton for Economist's sudden u-turn on Thaksin - let's hear it. There were very detached about PAD, too, even during their royalist push in the late 2005. Then, in Feb-March, the hel_l broke loose and Thaksin became a beacon of democracy while everyone else, from PAD to Democrats, were out to destroy it.

As I said, send them a letter and ask how to explain their concept of "New Politics" is anyway different from the Chinese Politburo system.

You are confusing an appreciation of the benefits of democracy with loving Thaksin.

Democracy also brings with it controls that Thailand didn't have and Thaksin was able to run straight through them. These were also the same controls put in place for years that others ran straight through to make themselves enormously rich. The biggest difference is that he had a very valuable company that was only worth something to a foreign bidder.

Military coups and street demonstrations with dodgy policies are in the long term no way to run a country. This ideal is no better than corrupt elections. Clean up the elections. Empower the judges. Take a leaf out of all the countries that have functioning parliamentary systems. Pay the PM 100mn baht a year. I don't care, but I don't believe the outcome from the standoff or probable fight right now will deliver a functioning system if the PAD prevails. People will be back on the streets with the added bonus of knowing that illegal civil disobedience should be allowed by any future government.

The best minds of Thailand have sat down many (I forget how many but I remember 17) times to make a constitution and it has been railroaded or ousted by the military. It is amazing that as we are lectured as foreigners and been told we don't understand Thai culture but Thai's have managed without too much trouble to wangle their way around the rules to commandeer parliamentary democracy for 70/80 years to their own end. Maybe this is a time when they should just copy another constitution from another part of the world instead of insisting that "Thailand is different,".

The big difference with Thaksin was that he appealed to people who aren't supposed to matter in the Thai system. So be it. No amount of flag waving and shirt wearing will turn the clock back. He stirred up the pot and got elected. In the long term it is absolutely irrelevant whether he paid 100 or 1000 baht per vote. The poor want more, and they expect that a government to take care of them better than they have. I don't blame them, they have nothing to lose.

The worst thing that could ever happen for Thailand is that the people in charge pretend that those that voted for Thaksin don't exist because I fear that this situation could run for 30 years. If you think that buying the Economist can change the ideas of rice farmers, strewth; they have been raped for 100 years; please come with me next week and I will take you on a guided tour of Isaan to see that people out there desperately need help. Thaksin probably wasn't the right guy, but they will follow anyone who gives them an ounce of hope.

Sound post!

[mc2]

Thai former PM Thaksin or ex-wife might return on Dec. 25

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/...nt_10388491.htm

BANGKOK, Nov. 20 Xinhua -- Thailand's ruling People Power Party MP Pracha Prasopdee on Thursday hinted that either former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra or his ex-wife Pojaman might return from exile on or before Dec. 25, a Thai media reported.

"Just carefully monitor Thaksin's phone-in on December 13 and see what will happen on December 25 when someone is supposed to arrive by a THAI flight from Hong Kong to Bangkok's Suvanabhumi Airport at 9:45 a.m. (0245 GMT)," Pracha Prasopdee told The Nation news website in an interview.

Pracha said Thaksin's opponents should respect the justice system, otherwise the situation might trigger bloodshed.

If Thaksin returns, the authorities are obligated to arrest and send him to jail but before doing that, they should take precautions because a large number of supporters will turn up to rally behind him, he said.

He said he saw no reason why Thaksin would not be willing to serve his jail term.

If the country is to overcome its political predicament, all sides should support the passage of a legislation granting amnesty to rival camps, he said, arguing that the draft legislation should be on a fast track for debate at the next House session in January.

The amnesty would allow a fresh start for all sides, including the People's Alliance for Democracy and is the only hope to overcome turmoil, he said.

Thaksin was ousted in a coup in September, 2006 and went into self-exile in London before his and Pojaman's visas were revoked.

Thaksin was now believed in Dubai, United Arab Emirates.

Thaksin and Pojaman reportedly ended their 32-year-old marriage last Friday at the Thai consulate in Hong Kong.

On Oct. 21, Thailand's Supreme Court for Political Office Holders sentenced Thaksin to two years in jail for abusing his powers as prime minister in 2003 by allowing his wife to bid on a plot of land put up for public auction.

[animatic]

Just look at this clown:

Acting Executive Director Sam Moon.

His resume includes The Economist, Dow Jones (publisher of Wall Street Journal), and Business Week.

http://www.tembusupartners.com/AboutTembus...44/Default.aspx

I agree this guy hasn't exactly got an intelligent looking face!

But just for the record I don't think he has had any editorial or journalistic background on the newspapers/journals named, just organising conferences.

Yeah, who's seriously going to hire Vin Diesel to run their Hong Kong PR office.

Maybe a penny stock boiler-room...

Congratulations !!!! Really fine work. Mocking the guys appearance -------- you should hang your heads in shame. If you don't like his position (as you strive to see it) try to target your attacks a little higher than this crap. This is real kindergarten stuff!!

Why don't you high minded social critics publish your MUGS ---- maybe he would like a shot at you.

You have achieved a new low .......... sad.

A new low, HAH!

Lose the goatee, it's a cliche of an earlier avaricious period,

and it appears to lower his IQ about 30 points.

There was a movie a few years back about a penny stock boiler room,

and this guy looks EXACTLY like Vin Diesel's charachter in the movie.

Mover shaker, made a lot of dosh, profit was all, came to a bad end.

This guy hits all the high points, as spot on caricature.

I wasn't mocking his physiognomy, but his professional look.

Which is NOT one I would trust with my hard earned money.

You give him your's to invest if you want.

I dislike his professional look, based on his presentation photo,

end of story.

[tig28]

Well ..... that really adds depth to your shallowness

[Plus]

Thai at heart, for all you talk about democracy appreciation - can it, for starters, put convicted criminal in jail? If not, then it's useless, nothing but a mob rule.

People say PAD is for anarchy - yeah, as if breaking out Thaksin is not anarchy, as if changing the constitution to save his sorry ass is not anarchy, as if excusing themselves from punishment for not playing by the rules via amedments is not anarchy.

Look at that poor girl Koo - the other day she was saying that tax evasion is acceptable and shouldn't be punished.

Is that not anarchy?

Maybe the reds should create themselves a state where they are free to steal and cheat, laws and justice are thrown out of the window, and all conflicts are resolved by bringing out bigger mobs and throwing bombs at each other, or simply presenting a bigger bank balance.

Democracy appreciation my ass.

[animatic]

Well ..... that really adds depth to your shallowness

If this is a look you prefer in your investment bankers,

then enjoy your penurious retirement.

[Thai at Heart]

Thai at heart, for all you talk about democracy appreciation - can it, for starters, put convicted criminal in jail? If not, then it's useless, nothing but a mob rule.

People say PAD is for anarchy - yeah, as if breaking out Thaksin is not anarchy, as if changing the constitution to save his sorry ass is not anarchy, as if excusing themselves from punishment for not playing by the rules via amedments is not anarchy.

Look at that poor girl Koo - the other day she was saying that tax evasion is acceptable and shouldn't be punished.

Is that not anarchy?

Maybe the reds should create themselves a state where they are free to steal and cheat, laws and justice are thrown out of the window, and all conflicts are resolved by bringing out bigger mobs and throwing bombs at each other, or simply presenting a bigger bank balance.

Democracy appreciation my ass.

By all means put him away. And everyone can pat themselves on the back for a job well done. Thailand needs a complete rethink of its systems in every way be them political, legal, educational or any other.

However, this is the very same system that has in it's time allowed the absurdities of maids owning shares, politicians sons to shoot coppers, damns to be built and villagers livelihoods ruined, continuous and long standing corruption of the various government agricultural purchasing systems that have kept farmers in the place they are "meant" to be for generations. This is the system where education spending is pitiful but the armed forces are eulogised.

The problem isn't Thaksin or TRT/PPP. All they did is use the system put in front of them and run right through it. It actually delivered what it was meant to in that it removed weak coalitions. It is also the system that created this mess. This is also the system that allowed the army to grant itself a massive increase in budget within weeks of getting into power. This all the system that has aircraft carriers sitting in port rusting to death.

Finessing the system has become a national art, and political morals in Thailand have always been in short supply. So, put him away, keep the system as it is and see what happens. It will fall on its face again.

[animatic]

If some group is making ANY EFFORT to change the system to less corrupt,

we should applaud their efforts.

If any group is making an extended effort to return the system to a more corrupt way,

we should hold them in contempt.

I am SURE someone will come and twist this comment to the inverse of it's intent,

but you can then judge THEIR motives for your self.

Edited November 21, 2008 by animatic

[tig28]

Thai at heart, for all you talk about democracy appreciation - can it, for starters, put convicted criminal in jail? (Plus--- you haven't been keeping up ---- the Thai court has found Thaksin guilty--- sentenced him --- and after the period for lodging an appeal has passed --- is considering extradition. No government should be running around with international warrants for an offense as MINOR as he has been convicted of.(5-4) but perhaps your hopes are being followed. ) if not, then it's useless, nothing but a mob rule.

People say PAD is for anarchy -(Well it is certainly one of the groups driving the country in that direction.) yeah, as if breaking out Thaksin is not anarchy,(breaking out Thaksin ??) as if changing the constitution (again) to save his sorry ass is not anarchy, as if excusing themselves from punishment for not playing by the rules via amendments is not anarchy. ( no---its not)

Look at that poor girl Koo - the other day she was saying that tax evasion is acceptable and shouldn't be punished.

( I commend on your efforts with Koo ..... I couldn't do it !!)

Is that not anarchy? (No ---- Plus its not. Many people evade/avoid tax--- it isn't right--- but it sure isn't anarchy --- I do admire your enthusiasm)

Maybe the reds should create themselves a state where they are free to steal and cheat, laws and justice are thrown out of the window, ( What--- like many non-democratic governments?) and all conflicts are resolved by bringing out bigger mobs and throwing bombs at each other, or simply presenting a bigger bank balance. (Please.... no mention of the other side with a superb foundation member like Sondhi Limthongkul.... wow ! There is a character to look up to!)

Democracy appreciation my ass. ( Simply because Thaksins reign has been riddled with misdeeds is no reason to abandon real democracy. This is what its all about ---- even when an inadequate leader or government achieves power the will of the people can remove it from power ---- without the dangerous excesses we now face. Coups--- especially when carried out just before scheduled national elections -- say more about the perpetrators --- PAD ---- military---etc.----than about the deposed government.)

[animatic]

Thai at heart, for all you talk about democracy appreciation - can it, for starters, put convicted criminal in jail? If not, then it's useless, nothing but a mob rule.

People say PAD is for anarchy - yeah, as if breaking out Thaksin is not anarchy, as if changing the constitution to save his sorry ass is not anarchy, as if excusing themselves from punishment for not playing by the rules via amedments is not anarchy.

Look at that poor girl Koo - the other day she was saying that tax evasion is acceptable and shouldn't be punished.

Is that not anarchy?

Maybe the reds should create themselves a state where they are free to steal and cheat, laws and justice are thrown out of the window, and all conflicts are resolved by bringing out bigger mobs and throwing bombs at each other, or simply presenting a bigger bank balance.

Democracy appreciation my ass.

Plus,

The last comments would be within anarchy, but the earlier ones not necessarily, sorry.

If they are changing the laws they are using a form of governance, so not anarchy.

Same for amnesty or commutation or pardons, it acknowledges some governance entity.

So not anarchy.

Breaking him out of prison would be anarchic, if unplanned.

I.E. a planned rally to protest at the prison, that goes off the rails, and then breaks him out.

Mob rule with out anyone DIRECTING the mob is anarchy.

Such as in the French revolution looting HiSo houses.

And organized march is not anarchy, if it loses all control temporarily,

then somewhat anarchic, but more likely short term chaos.

Creating a state to steal and cheat is not anarchy,

but it is utterly corrupt and evil.

[Plus]

By all means put him away.

That's what PAD is trying to do, no one else in this coutnry dares. Why do you want to stop them?

The problem isn't Thaksin or TRT/PPP. All they did is use the system put in front of them and run right through it.

Err, not only that, they also legitimised this system. All other groups acknowledge its flaws and vow to fight it. Once "reds" realise that they are fighting the same battle as PAD with it's new politics, the conflict will stop.

Thai at heart, for all you talk about democracy appreciation - can it, for starters, put convicted criminal in jail? (Plus--- you haven't been keeping up ---- the Thai court has found Thaksin guilty--- sentenced him --- and after the period for lodging an appeal has passed --- is considering extradition. No government should be running around with international warrants for an offense as MINOR as he has been convicted of.(5-4) but perhaps your hopes are being followed. ) if not, then it's useless, nothing but a mob rule.

The govt should have revoked Thaksin's diplomatic passport and stopped his live broadcasts on national TV rallying people against court decisions.

Don't tell me that Somchai is doing everything he can to ensure that justice is served. Extradition request is not the only option he has.

Look at that poor girl Koo - the other day she was saying that tax evasion is acceptable and shouldn't be punished.

( I commend on your efforts with Koo ..... I couldn't do it !!)

Is that not anarchy? (No ---- Plus its not. Many people evade/avoid tax--- it isn't right--- but it sure isn't anarchy --- I do admire your enthusiasm)

You missed the point completely - it's not the existence of crime that is anarchy, it's th idea that crime shouldn't be punished that is anarchy.

If they are changing the laws they are using a form of governance, so not anarchy.

On paper - yeas, in real life they render laws meaningless. Now it's a race - will they change the laws and absolve themselves, or the court declare their very existence illegal. This is anarchy.

When the so called government issues illegal decrees in any way it pleases - that's anarchy.

Anarchy in a sense that there's no rule of law, no ultimate authority, rules are made and bent on the spot on a daily basis - that's anarchy.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Plus

[Thai at Heart]

By all means put him away.

That's what PAD is trying to do, no one else in this coutnry dares. Why do you want to stop them?

The problem isn't Thaksin or TRT/PPP. All they did is use the system put in front of them and run right through it.

Err, not only that, they also legitimised this system. All other groups acknowledge its flaws and vow to fight it. Once "reds" realise that they are fighting the same battle as PAD with it's new politics, the conflict will stop.

Thai at heart, for all you talk about democracy appreciation - can it, for starters, put convicted criminal in jail? (Plus--- you haven't been keeping up ---- the Thai court has found Thaksin guilty--- sentenced him --- and after the period for lodging an appeal has passed --- is considering extradition. No government should be running around with international warrants for an offense as MINOR as he has been convicted of.(5-4) but perhaps your hopes are being followed. ) if not, then it's useless, nothing but a mob rule.

The govt should have revoked Thaksin's diplomatic passport and stopped his live broadcasts on national TV rallying people against court decisions.

Don't tell me that Somchai is doing everything he can to ensure that justice is served. Extradition request is not the only option he has.

Look at that poor girl Koo - the other day she was saying that tax evasion is acceptable and shouldn't be punished.

( I commend on your efforts with Koo ..... I couldn't do it !!)

Is that not anarchy? (No ---- Plus its not. Many people evade/avoid tax--- it isn't right--- but it sure isn't anarchy --- I do admire your enthusiasm)

You missed the point completely - it's not the existence of crime that is anarchy, it's th idea that crime shouldn't be punished that is anarchy.

If they are changing the laws they are using a form of governance, so not anarchy.

On paper - yeas, in real life they render laws meaningless. Now it's a race - will they change the laws and absolve themselves, or the court declare their very existence illegal. This is anarchy.

When the so called government issues illegal decrees in any way it pleases - that's anarchy.

Anarchy in a sense that there's no rule of law, no ultimate authority, rules are made and bent on the spot on a daily basis - that's anarchy.

Just to set the record straight, I never for once have said that Thaksin shouldn't do the time. Furthermore, I don't think that TRT/PPP has a monopoly on vote buying and corruption. In addition, letting the PAD break the law to achieve their aims sets a dangerous precedent for the future.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Thai at Heart

[Plus]

Unless you have an alternative way of reigning in Thaksin, without PAD, there's nothing to talk about.

If whatever system you propose allows him to freely control country's politics - it's not a democracy.

[Journalist]

^But the PAD haven't reigned him in.

His nominees and flunkies are still in power, they still hold the reins.

Thaksin now has a jail sentence over his head, but is not in jail, will never spend a night behind bars, and still commands the affection of the underclasses.

The Government also been deft enough to handle the PAD without provoking army intervention.

Apirak has been noble and fallen on his sword in recognition of a criminal indictment. (naughty Democrats)

So, all in all, apart from Thaivisa members inspired rhetoric rising to ever greater summits of sound and indignancy, almost nothing has changed.

So, correct. Nothing whatsoever to talk about.

[Plus]

If you don't see transformation from a budding Asian statesman in 2005 to homeless, wifeless, convicted criminal on the run in 2008 - nothing has changed indeed.

[Journalist]

^Regardless of the stains on him, the material changes in Thailand have been no more than cosmetic. Samak gives way to some other puppet.

Still, if you're satisfied with the divorce and the tax indictment, then fine. I thought you wanted a more decisive outcome.

I can give you a list of fifty individuals with far far worse criminal records and jail time who became leaders of their country.

Years of time in office with the country as his fiefdom (extrajudicial murders galore).......Nearly as many years police investigation after his exit.......the result .............."Guilty of tax evasion"

Pathetic.

You think those charges are a serious obstacle to his return to power? They're a fart in a typhoon.

I'd say its even money he will be Prime Minister again within 10 years. Any takers?

Edited November 21, 2008 by Journalist

[TAWP]

Go ahead...

[Jai Dee]

Thaksin's counsin; Chaisit, accepts to be Pue Thai Party leader

Former Supreme Commander Gen Chaisit Shinawatra, counsin of ex-PM Thaksin, announced Friday that he would enter Thai politics and is ready to take position of Pue Thai Party leader.

He said his decision was aimed at showing anti-government protesters who occupied the Government House how to work and help the country under the democratic system.

"To be under the democratic system, ones should be member of political party and solve the country's problems through the parliament,' he said.

Source: The Nation - 21 November 2008