How to certify Hong Kong marriage certificate in Bangkok

[Doodlry]

For foreign (non-thai) nationals married in Hong Kong, The Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bkk wants local consular stamp before certifying, but there is obviously no HK government office in Bangkok.

With no MoFA stamp, immigration will not issue dependent dependent extension of stay.  Does anyone have any ideas?  Would it be possible to register the marriage locally and then use that registration instead?

 

Advice appreciated!

[ubonjoe]

It may be possible to have it done at the Chinese embassy. I suggest you contact them about it.

It is also possible to do it by mail to Hong Kong. See: https://www.judiciary.hk/en/crt_services/apostille.htm

It would not be easy to register your marriage here. You both would need to have a affirmation of permit to marry from I assume the Chinese embassy.

Edit: Info on Chinese embassy website for legalizations. http://www.chinaembassy.or.th/eng/zgqz/gzrz/t1194276.htm

[taxout]

You need to have your HK official document legalised at the Thai consulate in Hong Kong. You'll have to ask whether they can legalise the marriage certificate directly or whether you'll need get the signature of another HK official on top of the certificate. You may be able to do this by mail.

 

http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/1303 (mostly in Thai)

 

You'll also have to ask whether the MFA in Bangkok will accept the consul's signature alone, or whether you'll need to get an additional MFA stamp attesting that the consul's signature is genuine.

 

Thailand is not party to the Hague Convention, so the apostille doesn't work. If it did, legalising foreign official documents for use in Thailand would be far simpler.

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, taxout said:

You need to have your HK official document legalised at the Thai consulate in Hong Kong. You'll have to ask whether they can legalise the marriage certificate directly or whether you'll need get the signature of another HK official on top of the certificate. You may be able to do this by mail.

 

For what the OP is doing they do not need anything from the consulate in Hong Kong or the Department of Consular Affairs of the MFA. If the marriage certificate is not in English the Department of Consular Affairs would only certify the translation.

Thai authorities will certainly accept a apostille since that is equal to or greater than a basic legalization of the document.

Thai immigration is who they are dealing with which only requires a legalization of the marriage certificate from the embassy of the country that issued it or an authority there. Immigration will also accept a statement or affidavit that it is a true and correct document witnessed by the embassy.

[taxout]

"Thai authorities will certainly accept a apostille since that is equal to or greater than a basic legalization of the document."

 

You have first-hand experience with Thai authorities accepting an apostille, notwithstanding Thailand's failure to sign up to the Hague Convention?

 

In any event, if a self-certification will work, that is great. But I have doubts that the Chinese embassy in Bangkok will do this. Normally if you want to swear such an oath, you appear before the consul of your home country, not the country that issued the document you are self-certifying.

[BobbyL]

We had a similar issue. It needed an apostille and stamp from the Thai Embassy in London. I assume you might need the same from the one in HK. 

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

We had a similar issue. It needed an apostille and stamp from the Thai Embassy in London. I assume you might need the same from the one in HK. 

The added step of the Thai embassy is part of the procedure that the UK embassy here has posted on their website. It may not always be needed.

 

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, taxout said:

You have first-hand experience with Thai authorities accepting an apostille, notwithstanding Thailand's failure to sign up to the Hague Convention?

Not signing the convention only means the do not issue them. Most countries will accept them but not issue them.

2 hours ago, taxout said:

In any event, if a self-certification will work, that is great. But I have doubts that the Chinese embassy in Bangkok will do this. Normally if you want to swear such an oath, you appear before the consul of your home country, not the country that issued the document you are self-certifying.

The self certification was only an example.

The Chinese embassy will legalize (see the link in my earlier post) a marriage certificate. I am certain they do it for one issued in Hong Kong.

[taxout]

You didn't answer my question.

 

You said, "Thai authorities will certainly accept a apostille since that is equal to or greater than a basic legalization of the document."

 

You throw "certain" around a lot. So I repeat, is your advice based on first-hand experience or simply what you think is reasonable? That is, do you know for a fact that this is, indeed, "certainly" true?

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, taxout said:

You throw "certain" around a lot. So I repeat, is your advice based on first-hand experience or simply what you think is reasonable?

I have never needed a legalization of any document but I have read many posts on this forum of people using a apostille here.

Have you had a apostille that was not accepted here?

 

[taxout]

"Have you had a apostille that was not accepted here?"

 

In Thailand, I wouldn't even think of presenting a document with only an apostille. It's possible that a Thai Embassy/Consulate will legalise an apostilled document from the country they're based in, I don't know. But what would then give that document effect in Thailand isn't the apostille, it's the seal/signature of the Thai consul.

[BobbyL]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The added step of the Thai embassy is part of the procedure that the UK embassy here has posted on their website. It may not always be needed.

 

Agh okay. Fair enough. 

[Doodlry]

Thanks to all for the info and ideas.  Not to detract from the discussion, but here is an update on situation.

 

The certificate already has an apostille stamp  It has been successfully used many times in the past in Thailand.  However, it was not accepted this time at either  immigration or Foreign Affairs..

Info counter staff at MoFA said have to go to Chinese embassy for certification, which was done.  However, the nice lady at the embassy stated that they only verify documents which are issued from within Thailand, so any foreign marriage certificate could not be verified or acknowledged by them.  She stated that only way to do was a trip to Thai consulate in HK.

 

Does anyone know what this entails in terms of procedures, time, cost etc?  If a trip is made, is it certain that the additional validation will be enough?  Would hate to go all the way there for nothing......

 

 

 

[taxout]

As I suggested above, you should write or call the consulate in Hong Kong and get the information you need from the horse's mouth. If they accept mail applications, you'll presumably need to complete the application form at the link I gave above. You'll also have to ask how you make payment by mail, including return courier fees.

 

As to whether the document legalised by the Thai consul in HK will be accepted in Thailand, it should be, but sometimes government officials are difficult just to be difficult. As I said, it's possible they'll send you to the MFA for a further signature/seal certifying that the HK consul's signature/seal is genuine.

 

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, taxout said:

As I suggested above, you should write or call the consulate in Hong Kong and get the information you need from the horse's mouth. If they accept mail applications, you'll presumably need to complete the application form at the link I gave above. You'll also have to ask how you make payment by mail, including return courier fees.

As to whether the document legalised by the Thai consul in HK will be accepted in Thailand, it should be, but sometimes government officials are difficult just to be difficult. As I said, it's possible they'll send you to the MFA for a further signature/seal certifying that the HK consul's signature/seal is genuine.

 

The Thai consulate in Hong Kong would not legalize a marriage certificate issued in Hong Kong.

It would have to be legalized by the judiciary of Hong Kong that I posted a link to earlier.

In the same post I posted a link to Chinese embassy's legalization procedures.

[ubonjoe]

37 minutes ago, Doodlry said:

The certificate already has an apostille stamp  It has been successfully used many times in the past in Thailand.  However, it was not accepted this time at either  immigration or Foreign Affairs..

Was the apostille stamp on it done when the marriage certificate was issued or later?

What was the reason that immigration gave for not accepting it? The Consular Affairs Department of the MFA will only legalize documents issued here.

43 minutes ago, Doodlry said:

However, the nice lady at the embassy stated that they only verify documents which are issued from within Thailand, so any foreign marriage certificate could not be verified or acknowledged by them.  She stated that only way to do was a trip to Thai consulate in HK.

 

I don't understand why they said they could only verify documents issued in Thailand.

That contradicts what it states here. http://www.chinaembassy.or.th/eng/zgqz/gzrz/t1194276.htm

[taxout]

No contradiction. It's the accepted international practice: a consulate or embassy only legalises documents issued within its consular jurisdiction. That's because legalisation essentially means authenticating the signature of the local official who issued the document. Each embassy/consulate keeps a list of the local officials whose signatures it recognises. The Thai consulate in Hong Kong has the necessary records to legalise -- that is, authenticate -- signatures of certain Hong Kong officials. The MFA in Bangkok and the Chinese embassy in Bangkok don't have these records: they're simply not in a position to authenticate the signature of a Hong Kong official.

[taxout]

"The Thai consulate in Hong Kong would not legalize a marriage certificate issued in Hong Kong."

 

I don't mean to be rude, but you're plain off base here and needlessly leading the OP around in circles. Of course the Thai consulate in HK can legalise a marriage certificate issued in HK.

 

As I said above, it is possible that the OP will need another official HK signature on top of the official signature on the marriage certificate. That depends on what signature is on the marriage certificate and whether the consulate recognises it (or the apostille). If the consulate doesn't recognise it, the OP will need to get the signature of a higher Hong Kong official the consulate does recognise. (The higher official would authenticate the signature of the lower official on the marriage certificate.)

 

I suspect that if the OP called the HK consulate they could answer his questions in a jiffy. This is a common procedure.

[Doodlry]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Was the apostille stamp on it done when the marriage certificate was issued or later?

What was the reason that immigration gave for not accepting it? The Consular Affairs Department of the MFA will only legalize documents issued here.

I don't understand why they said they could only verify documents issued in Thailand.

That contradicts what it states here. http://www.chinaembassy.or.th/eng/zgqz/gzrz/t1194276.htm

There was no reason given for not accepting them, just stating what had to be done to validate them.

The document at the link you provided was printed and shown to the embassy staff, but they clarified it was only for locally issued documents.  I agree the wording is confusing.