How to survive out of Thailand Alive in legal way?

[VonDutch]

If anyone can help and reply some right information about any questions, I will respect a lot!
First I want to tell what happened:

Before Christmas I escape winter from EU-country to “Land of Smiles” and plan was to go back to home on summer. I have been before in south beach area Scuba Diving for 4 months. Before this trip I have been traveling over 30 countries and I was exited to see this time Northern Thailand.

After one great month in Chiang Mai, I took bus to Pai and I liked a lot! I meet many nice locals and western and everything was OK.

In January one unlucky night I was drunk in the bar like everybody else and in one reason (too long story) I had arguments with 5-6 really drunk tourist (friend group). They promise to beat me and because I was alone, I just went outside about 1-2 am. They started to hunt me, so I escaped and found a mountain bicycle what was unlock. I make decision to use it and escape in dangerous situation and when safe, later drive it back.

I drive few minutes, I felt that I was safe and I went to buy nigh food and tobacco from 7Eleven, before going to sleep. When I got outside, there was same group of mans and they started to scream, they hit me on she street and started kicking. I got hit’s on head and all over the body, my 400 euros worth eye classes broke and I think that my life ends here.

Then suddenly in about 300 meter away in the total darkness, I heard police car sound and lights, all mans run away hiding and I think police safe my life. I was in chock, because they put me on handcuffs and throw to jail.

Next morning I had to pay 500 bahts penalty for noise on the street - and that was OK and I act really polite - and then there was police interview about bicycle stealing, because they saw it from security camera. In same table there was also owner off the bicycle who get bicycle then already back and I immediately said that I’m sorry and guilty. I try to make deal with owner by saying polite way:
“I’m ready to pay that we both safe time.” Owner said” “No”,
and I reply: “Ok. I respect that.”
I was ready to pay 5000 bahts.

Later I knew from my lawyer that owner was ready to give mercy, but was angry because “He didn’t care and leaved bicycle front of 7Eleven”. So owner didn’t know anything what happened. Off course you leave bicycle when 6 mans try to kill you and police rest you on jail. Now later I know that the owner have said to police that bicycle is worth of 100 000 bahts and as a I know that truth is maximum 6000 - 8000 bahts.

At same time I had rented really high level hand made expensive street bike for one week deal. Then there is no any sense to steal bicycle, but I understood fast that reason is no matter here, just what you did.

Police officers where nice and one officer who was working in that situation on night said:
“I’m sorry. Understand also me. I just saw you there. Have you seen the movie Hangover?”

They said that I have to come to court after 5 days and I was 100% seriously going, because wanted off course my Passport back and all visa things where also OK –
I extended it before 30 days in Chiang Mai immigration – that I can continue my journey.

THEN…
Two days before court in one evening I had maybe the baddest luck in my life ever…
I went to ATM to take out Cash with my Visa card that I can pay possible penalty of my crime and I took all my monthly budget out at same time (30 000 bahts) and my way to took money to Guesthouse safety box, 3 mans robbed me!

I lose all my cash and my Visa card, not even 1 baht in hand!

I started to panic, because I read some True stories that if you cannot pay the penalty fee in court, then you have to go to jail and if you are guilty for stealing, then it can be anything from 2,5 to 5 years.

I was traveling alone, so I didn’t find nobody who can borrow. I didn’t have even any water and next day without money I was going to be 100% sure many years in jail. I took paper and pen and think every way to survive? Finally I did’t have any other choice and I make decision to escape and try to get help from my county’s Embassy in Bangkok: if they can borrow me court money, give lawyer help and any information...

I packed my backpack and I got my bus ticket by selling expensive smartphone spare battery for 200 bahts. Ticket seller ask passport and I just said: “I lost it. Going to get new one to Bangkok." In Chiang Mai railway station I meet one nice tourist who bye to me cheapest ticket (225 bahts) by morning train what left 6:30 am and was in Bangkok 9:30 pm.

I survived long and really hot trip by exchanging economy: giving something small to bye water or some snacks. When I arrived to Bangkok railway station, I was in trouble: how to find Embassy, because my smartphone also broke in abuse situation on street.

I slept two nights in Railway station and then one nice tourist give me 100 bahts and I went to eat in cheap restaurant to get free Wifi to my Laptop and I wrote down my Embassy address. It’s hard to move without money in city where lives over 15 million people, so I started to walk and after walking without water whole day with 25 kg backpack, on the evening I just fall in sleep in some chair.

I woke up when some local Karaoke Bar owner asked: “Are you okay, can I offer beer?” After one beer, he asked: “You look really bad, do you need any help?” I reply that my Passport and wallet was stolen and I need to go to get support in my Embassy.

Upstairs of the bar, there was some rooms and owner with her wife take care me 3 days and nights: free room, shower and water was like luxury. When I get better, they support me and give free one hour trip to my country Embassy and after explaining the situation to embassy worker one hour, I was totally in shock when I understood that they can’t help anything…

I was looking for information, support and help: what to do, where to find lawyer, what’s going to happen in court, what is penalty for stealing, can they borrow money, how to survive back to home? All what he did, he gave me copy of my passport and 2000 bahts to survive.

I say thanks and still I was amazed, because I had payed taxes all my life to my government and before I understood totally wrong that Embassy’s work is to help own citizens in trouble, but it’s not true at all. I don’t know what is then their work? Visa applications and business? Just money? My one tip for fellow travelers is... If you live in rich country, don’t newer ever think that your Embassy will help. Be 100% independent.

I was on my own and I had to make new emergency plan. I make decision to travel back to Chiang Mai, because I wanted to handle Pai court thing some how soon as possible and Chiang Mai was close enough to Pai.

With Embassy support cash I traveled by night bus to CM and took some 100 baht Guesthouse. I had some pressure in reception: “Show me your passport.” I gave my passport copy and said: “I just lost my Passport. I’m going soon get new one from my Embassy in Bangkok.” They accept that.

In that time I was totally in pressure, because I knew that all Guesthouses scan every Passports and have to inform all guests information under 24 hours to Immigration electronically and I know that police where already looking for me and if they catch me before I get penalty cash to court, I will go jail for long time. That’s why I changed the place all the time.

First what I did in Ching Mai: I contact to my internet bank and order new Visa Electron. It come under one week, I got my new passive income - every month about 30 000 bahts – and get free consultation from local lawyer. We talk about two hours and I get this information:

1. When lawyer goes to Pai to meet police and ask the situation basic info: 15 000 bahts
2. When he is in court with me: 15 000 bahts
3. Penalty to stealing bicycle 10 000 bahts
4. Penalty to not come to court: 10 000 bahts
5. 500 bahts / day fro visa overstay. My Visa run out in the beginning of March and how you can get new visa or go out of country when passport is in police?
5. Some other extra costs…

So. Lawyer said that to be secure I Need it’s total about 60 000 – 80 000 bahts or more to survive.

He also said that stealing in Thailand is really serious crime and there is 50% change that if I pay fee, still I get 2,5 – 5 years prison penalty. He also said that don’t believe jail penalty, because they don’t want “farangs” to jail: too much paper work, maybe publicity and they have to inform my Embassy.

So, my passive income at the moment was 30 000 bahts/month, where to get 60 000 bahts extra? One friend tourist said:
“Don’t stress too much. Your Visa just run out but you have now 90 days (3 months) time to handle the situation, before it gets more seriously. You just pay 20 000 bahts in airport and that’s it.”

I believed he and because of ultimate stress and pressure in that time and about situation, I make decision to try to relax, because wanted to have anything else to think… anyway I didn’t have no money to pay to court. Living with hotel, food and everything in Chiang Mai costs for me about 25 000 bahts/month, so in that time I could safe just 5000 bahts/month, so I had to be here forever to collect the money.

Time goes by, I keep low profile and I sent more messages that who can help without no result. One day I look calendar and understood that I have to handle Pai court under one month before it’s 90 days visa overstay, so I take all Really seriously, send some help letters and messages my friends and family.

I was lucky and got some 15 000 bahts support money, I meet the lawyer again and give all money to him and send him to Pai to ask what is the situation and he went there in person. We meet again and situation was almost the same like before, no information changed.

Now also because of my own mistake to take too relax, I was in was war against the time and about 2 week before overstay goes over 90 days, I was lucky and got 60 000 bahts emergency support money. I meet the lawyer some days later last time and just before I was jumping in bus to Pai, my lawyer called:

“Don’t go! I just called to Pai and get new information. Before the court you have to give them 100 000 bahts bail money, because they have to order your criminal record from Bangkok what takes three weeks. If you don’t pay, you wait in jail three weeks or if you pay, still during that time your Visa overstay goes over 90 days what means that after court what ever the penalty is, they will send you Immigration prison and you need money also to airplane ticket back to your home country!”

I was in chock! I try to handle the situation anyway and always new challenge. I didn’t have that all money and if you don’t have airplane return ticket to home, then I had read that you have wait many months or years in Immigration prison with no any change to go Home.

Because of that totally new information – 100 000 bail money and waiting 3 weeks criminal record - now after over month from that the situation is that my Visa overstay is over 90 days and after again fighting one month in beginning of next month (6.7.2018), I will get 135 000 bahts emergency support money to my account, because now also friends and family really know how seriously the situation is. I'm planning to use money as follows:

1. I go to Pai in free will and lawyer give them 100 000 bahts bail money. Waiting 3 weeks to court in Pai. (Lawyer said they will give this money back after court)
2. 15 000 to lawyer
2. 10 000 bahts for stealing bicycle
3. 10 000 bahts for not go to court
4. 20 000 bahts for Visa overstay
5. One way return ticket to home 40 – 45 000 bahts
6. Living/waiting court in Pai 3 weeks 21 days x 400 = 8400
TOTAL: 108 400 bahts

This is what happened and now we finally go to The Point!

Right now I’m in secure place in one room just waiting money to come without going out – I don’t want take any risks - and I have some really seriously and important questions what can safe my whole Life, if anybody can help to reply just one, few or all questions?

My lawyer said that I cannot take any cash when I go to with my free will to Pai (just ATM card), because police will take everything out/own pockets. Plan is that I give 100 000 bail money to lawyer and he will give them to police (then I can wait court three weeks in freedom) and I will get all money back after court, BUT…

After court penalty – money or jail – because of my 90 days overstay, Immigration will start immediately banish / kick out the country -action.

1. When they give my bail money 100 000 back, do anybody know… can I pay my penalty with that bail money? Or do I have to have extra money and they will give bail money 100 000 bahts back after all penalty money payed?

2. After that I have a lot of Cash on hands and also lawyer said that in next Immigration prison, police can take them. Is that true? If police can take them in Pai police station like lawyer said when you arrive there, why not everywhere else too? If so, how I can then buy any airplane ticket back to home because after taking 100 000 bahts out of account, I just have about 20 000 what is not enough to pay return ticket.

3. My lawyer said that after court they will drive me to the nearest airport, what is in this case Chiang Mai and send me to home. Some other information saying that they will drive me to Immigration Jail in Bangkok. What information is right?

4. I have read many True stories example from Immigration Jail in Bangkok that in there you don’t have any access to phone or internet. So, how you can then buy airplane ticket back to home? And how you can pay it? In cash, credit card or internet bank?

5. Or can someone else make make reservation to airplane return ticket (friend, lawyer, Embassy)

6. And how you can even ask them to do that, because you don’t have any communication devises?

Just asking, because this is critical information: if I take 100 000 bail money out in cash, then in account there is not enough money to buy return ticket online. And if the police take the cash, then there is no enough money to pay cash or also later took out from ATM: just 20 000 bahts.

I have send about 30 e-mails to my country Embassy to different workers about these questions during two months and not even one reply.

6. One solution is not to pay 100 000 bail money in Pai, so money is in secure in bank account and then I will suffer 3 weeks in Pai jail to wait criminal record before court.

This is also Really Risky, because I had a brain damage few years ago what causes Bipolar disorder (manic depression) what means that every morning and evening in same time I need 2 x 400 mg Lithium medicine to be in balance and normal. When this all happened in Pai in January 2018, I was already one night in jail without night Lithium -medicines and almost lost my mind totally. Without night medisines you cannot sleep and your mind starts to Run like a Crazy, and still you are locked in dark jail without any hygiene, water, food or anything else. If just one night without medicines drive me bad condition, I maybe cant survive 3 weeks.

7. Do anybody now, can prisoners in Pai jail, Chiang Mai Immigration Jail (is there that kind of place) or in Immigration Jail in Bangkok have own personal medicines with them or do guards take care of that? If you cannot use your own medicines – like I have heard somewhere - then I really seriously have to think to safe my Life and hide rest of my life somewhere, because without medicines in stressful situation and atmosphere – if Lithium stops suddenly to a wall - I will go 100% sure crazy and can die.

Or second survival plan is that how I can fight there out soon as possible and that's why asking these questions that I can make Step by Step Survival Plan.

Asking this because if bipolar disorder patient suddenly stop receiving medicines – you have to stop Lithium in 3-6 months with doctor – then after in just few days 100% sure there comes hypomania, after that mania and psychosis when you start to be paranoid with no any sleeping and seeing and thinking things what is not even real. I don’t have any suicide thoughts – I want to Fight my way back to Home - and I’m now in some little depression and sadness but still in balance, but in psychosis situation suicide risk goes really fast in dangerous level even you are not in jail.

I read the fact that visitors can’t bring any medicines to prisoners in Immigration Jail in Bangkok and that there is from 80 to 160 peoples in same room light on 100% of time and your personal space is 40 x 40 cm. With medicine I can maybe survive, but with this reality without medicine it’s going to be disaster.

I have support as follows:

1. In my home country supporter who can help and contact to my own country Embassy in Bangkok (they don’t reply any of my messages)
2. One local friend who can visit Pai jail, Chiang Mail jail or Immigration Jail in Bangkok.
3. My lawyer via phone in Chiang Mai office
And how you even can call or contact to him or anybody else example from Immigration Jail in Bangkok that you need something help, because you cant use phone or internet and also l read from rules that that lawyers can’t visit, just individuals?

Any tips what to do?

I want to thank everybody who can Help and reply any of these questions! And if you who have any experience for Visa overstays, Pai jail or prison, Immigration prison in Bangkok or any information what can help to survive with this biggest challenge of my lifetime or any other advises, I will respect a lot!

In the end I think that many things also was my own mistake and still reality is that I was a victim of two crimes - abuse on street and robbery. I come here for relax and winter holiday as a tourist and I have been traveling over 30 countries with no any problems. Sometimes this way and if I can survive, then maybe later I can think something positive about this all.

In the end I want to say that I don’t have any bad to say about local people or Thailand. This was just really unlucky episode and if I have permission to be here again after example 1 year ban, I will visit 3th time...

Like police officer in Pai asked: "Have you seen movie Hangover what filmed in Thailand?”
Yes I have and now I really know when your own journey is like a movie.

Thank you for any Help and I try to Fight my way to Home!

- VonDutch

Edited June 27, 2018 by VonDutch

[Tommy2cents]

Are you for real dude? That is the most sordid story I have ever heard . . .

 

Everything about it is so wrong in so many ways, I wouldn't know where to begin.

 

However, I'm sure the experts on all subjects Thailand on TV will soon chime in with all sorts of advice. Sit tight . . .

Edited June 27, 2018 by Tommy2cents
Want to eloborate

[ubonjoe]

A post accusing the OP of being paid to post has been removed. A repeat of it will result in a formal warning.

[Lamkyong]

good story on your bike cloggy?

[Peterw42]

Do what everyone else does, a Gofundme page, get someone else to do it as they have a word limit.

 

https://www.gofundme.com

 

Or sell the movie rights to your epic story.

[manarak]

what people get themselves into...

[Nick ZepTepi]

Good luck, or better luck.

I suggest you Use your time to fully write out your experience, it could be a best seller one day, plus it might help with your medical issues.




Sent from my BND-L21 using Tapatalk

[Rc2702]

Sorry can you repeat that

[BuaBS]

Go to a harbor and sneak on a container ship out of here . Yes illegal , but it would solve a lot.  Let's see how long before this gets deleted....

[Canuckabroad]

49 minutes ago, BuaBS said:

Go to a harbor and sneak on a container ship out of here . Yes illegal , but it would solve a lot.  Let's see how long before this gets deleted....

I hope yours (and my reply) don’t get deleted, and more posters offer suggestions. Because knowing how to get out of LOS in a situation like this - without a passport - could be lifesaving information.

[poanoi]

i kind of always took for granted i had the most bad luck

out of all humans.

maybe get a temporary passport and cross border and fly home

[South]

Ah, quality ....... again.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

How about turn your bad experience into opportunity?

 

What you need to do is write a treatment for a screenplay and shop it around Hollywood. Must flesh it out though, it can go a number of ways. How about an international action thriller. You are a  businessman abroad who accidently crosses a group of foreign criminal thugs in a Thai bar?  Young family waiting at home. Really the gross out comedies as you mentioned "Hangover" sell better these days. Anyway you need a love interest. Perhaps a comical sidekick?  When you get to the west coast don't trust agents. They will steal your ideas if it has not been done already.

 

Thanks for sharing!

[buick]

quote from the link:

It’s recommended that people on lithium avoid or limit their use of alcohol, because in addition to the side effects above, it can also lead to impaired judgement and thinking, and you should never do anything requiring mental alertness when you’ve used alcohol and lithium.

 

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/alcohol-abuse/alcohol-and-lithium/

[Get Real]

What can I say, Dude! This is way too complexed for me and my small brain. However, Best of Luck to you! You will surely need it!

To take a well known expression and comment. "And, I thought I´ve heard it all"

[FritsSikkink]

10 hours ago, poanoi said:

i kind of always took for granted i had the most bad luck

out of all humans.

maybe get a temporary passport and cross border and fly home

Where is the bad luck, don't get so drunk to get in a fight. Don't steel a bike. Sell some of the 25KG backpack, so you don't have to travel to Bangkok. 

Very detailed story, only forgot to tell about after "the robbery" if he went to the police station to tell them about it and try to get these people arrested and his money back. 

[VonDutch]

12 hours ago, Canuckabroad said:

I hope yours (and my reply) don’t get deleted, and more posters offer suggestions. Because knowing how to get out of LOS in a situation like this - without a passport - could be lifesaving information.

I don't have any plans to go illegal way anywhere. Going to court and just need right information to questions, thanks.

[VonDutch]

15 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Where is the bad luck, don't get so drunk to get in a fight. Don't steel a bike. Sell some of the 25KG backpack, so you don't have to travel to Bangkok. 

Very detailed story, only forgot to tell about after "the robbery" if he went to the police station to tell them about it and try to get these people arrested and his money back. 

Yes, I mean about the bad luck that just before court, I get robbed because without that no any problem to pay the penalty fee. Drinking and taking bicycle 100% my own mistake! Still waiting any reply to questions, thanks. My lawyer off course also help, but he is really busy at the moment and it takes many days to just reply one question. Thanks!

[VonDutch]

1 hour ago, Get Real said:

What can I say, Dude! This is way too complexed for me and my small brain. However, Best of Luck to you! You will surely need it!

To take a well known expression and comment. "And, I thought I´ve heard it all"

Thanks!

[VonDutch]

43 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Where is the bad luck, don't get so drunk to get in a fight. Don't steel a bike. Sell some of the 25KG backpack, so you don't have to travel to Bangkok. 

Very detailed story, only forgot to tell about after "the robbery" if he went to the police station to tell them about it and try to get these people arrested and his money back. 

Thanks for message.
"Sell some of the 25KG backpack, so you don't have to travel to Bangkok."
With selling your backpack with dirty clothes, you cannot get all that money what you need in court.
The reason to go Bangkok was not just that no money. In that moment I can't order new Visa card from my home country bank to any place and wait it 2 weeks, because:
1) No Passport to check in
2) The court 2 days, so they get you anyway.
The reason was that I was thinking that own country Embassy can help.
I really didn't know that they don't care.

"Very detailed story, only forgot to tell about after "the robbery" if he went to the police station to tell them about it and try to get these people arrested and his money back."

Yes, really good idea and I would like to do that 100% to safe the situation, but in that place there was no any security cams or finesses, so no any proofs about nothing. I also read that in court if you don't have penalty money immediately, they are not interested about reason, and they change it to prison penalty.

Edited June 28, 2018 by VonDutch

[jvs]

I saw a movie recently but cant remember the name,a lot of elements nearly the same but this guy was fleeing from Laos to Thailand.

I did not know you can get a copy of your passport at the embassy.

[watcharacters]

 

I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune and understand the things that happened to you could easily beset most people.

 

I do wonder about your statement of having to show a passport to buy a bus ticket.   It's been a while since I've been on a train or bus in Thailand but I don't recall ever having to show a passport for either mode of transport.

 

I'm not doubting you since I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the current regime found that requirement appropriate.

.

No matter what, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[FritsSikkink]

7 minutes ago, VonDutch said:

Thanks for message.
"Sell some of the 25KG backpack, so you don't have to travel to Bangkok."
With selling your backpack with dirty clothes, you cannot get all that money what you need in court.
 

You have a laptop

[VonDutch]

15 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Do what everyone else does, a Gofundme page, get someone else to do it as they have a word limit.

 

https://www.gofundme.com

 

Or sell the movie rights to your epic story.

Yes. No any plan to write or selling anything, because I already have all money to maybe survive this situation. Just waiting right information and reply's to questions, because without right info cant to survival plan.

[VonDutch]

12 minutes ago, jvs said:

I saw a movie recently but cant remember the name,a lot of elements nearly the same but this guy was fleeing from Laos to Thailand.

I did not know you can get a copy of your passport at the embassy.

Yes. They can print copy of your Passport and then Embassy worker also will stamp it and sign it that it's real. Also Embassy workers said that they cannot give any "Emergency Passport" or "2nd Passport", because I don't do nothing with it. The information about court thing is is borders and airports.

[VonDutch]

11 hours ago, poanoi said:

i kind of always took for granted i had the most bad luck

out of all humans.

maybe get a temporary passport and cross border and fly home

In Embassy they said that I don't do anything with temporary passport, because information about court situation is in borders and airports. I would like to do this legal way, that's why all those questions about right information that I know what to do example bail money, medicines, return ticket to home etc. Thanks.

[VonDutch]

25 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune and understand the things that happened to you could easily beset most people.

 

I do wonder about your statement of having to show a passport to buy a bus ticket.   It's been a while since I've been on a train or bus in Thailand but I don't recall ever having to show a passport for either mode of transport.

 

I'm not doubting you since I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the current regime found that requirement appropriate.

.

No matter what, I wish you the best of luck.

 

In Pai bus station the ticket seller ask Passport, mainly because they have to fill your name to passenger list. I said it's lost and I'm going to get new one right now from my Embassy. That was OK. Same happen in Chiang Mai Railway Station.

Edited June 28, 2018 by VonDutch

[giddyup]

You lost me at "if anyone can help".

[VonDutch]

17 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

You have a laptop

Yes, it's true. About 10 years old Asus Mini PC with electrical problems and battery broken wort of nothing.

[VonDutch]

4 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You lost me at "if anyone can help".

Yes. Or reply even one question.