Trump: Harley-Davidsons being made in Thailand is "the beginning of the end"

[jenny2017]

1 minute ago, Briggsy said:

They are not. Trump would love you to believe it though and he hints at it to make you believe it and if you're dumb and don't do your own reading and you're a believer, then you do believe it and you believe Trump is a righteous crusader fighting for America and the fire is stoked in your belly at those Harley-Davidson traitors. See how it works? CAPS

You can't be angry with Trump. A) He doesn't know what he's talking about. B) He forgot it after three seconds, so why getting angry about this Alzheimer dwarf? 

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, MunkyBoogar said:

You really could have googled this yourself.

 

http://fortune.com/2018/01/30/harley-davidson-to-lay-off-workers-again-as-motorcycle-shipments-slump/

 

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/05/11/harley-davidson-jobs-reportedly-being-shipped-to-thailand

"Machinist Richard Pence, who has the highest seniority in the Kansas City plant and has worked there since its inception, said, “Part of my job is being moved to York, but the other part is going to Bangkok."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/25/harley-davidson-plans-thailand-factory-to-serve-southeast-asian-market.html

"After the New York Times reported on Harley's planned Thai investment, United Steelworkers (USW) International President Leo W. Gerard on Tuesday said the decision was "a slap in the face to the American worker and to hundreds of thousands of Harley riders across the country."

HD has been trying to get away from USW union for YEARS!

 

The benefit of building bikes in Thailand is the 60% tariff will be skirted but at the cost of killing jobs in the US. HD started laying off longtime employees shortly after being praised by DDD. We all know will find a new way to recoup its tea money.

 

https://thinkprogress.org/harley-davidson-close-kansas-city-plant-thailand-ee60d555d762/

"Union members, however, claim at least part of their work will be outsourced to Thailand. "

 

http://laborpress.org/harley-davidson-builds-plant-in-thailand-with-trumps-bonus-money/

International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers president Bob Martinez Jr. said “These companies are taking tax breaks with one hand and handing out pink slips with the other. I’m going to call it like I see it…this is a corporate ambush on working people.”

 

Companies have been doing this for years. HD just chose extremely bad timing...... lol

None of that says anything about what we were discussing, all those links tell us is that the opening of the plant in Thailand is being used by the unions as a scapegoat for the job losses. If you want to blame somebody for this and clearly you do, why not start with the unions, they managed to make the Detroit workforce too expensive for the US car companies and doubtless, they're doing the same thing to Kansas! But that's not really the point, the point is that international commerce is based on being fleet and adaptive, putting manufacturing facilities in Thailand to serve the Thai/Asian market is part of that. And if the Apple model is anything to go by the overseas profits of HD in Thailand will still be repatriated to the US hence the US economy will benefit. The International Association of Machinists says..... Union members claim......United Steelworks President said....A machinist said.....it's all hearsay, sour grapes and union BS as usual when these things happen..

[digger70]

7 hours ago, Briggsy said:

But HD have been producing in Brazil, India and Australia for years. Did that cheapen their value? Why are Harleys produced in India an "American Icon" but Harleys produced in Thailand "cheap copies"? Or is it only when Trump tells you to think in a certain way?

Maybe not their Value But For Sure Quality,,,  wouldn't want to Own /Ride a HD Myself

[Briggsy]

2 minutes ago, digger70 said:

Maybe not their Value But For Sure Quality,,,  wouldn't want to Own /Ride a HD Myself

Neither would I. I like Japanese makes.

 

Product Quality is an issue for management. With strong QC, firms like Honda have proved Thai plants can compete well with the rest of the world. This is not an issue for a president of the U.S. to attack a company on. It is bad for American business.

[ChouDoufu]

i voted for trump.  i apologize.

he is a fool, but at least he wasn't she.

 

anyhoo, what we have here is amazing.  it took the likes of trump to get a

classic american icon to outsource. 

 

first he pulls out of the TPP, which results in either increased or continued tariffs on american motorcycles, which results in harley building a factory in thailand to service asian nations.

 

then he imposes tariffs on european metals, resulting in reciprocal tariffs on american motorcycles, resulting in moving production of bikes destined for europe to the thailand factory.

 

i guess this is winning?

[jimster]

8 hours ago, Briggsy said:

It's all about the soundbite. And the sad thing is many U.S. voters are dumb enough, desperate enough or ignorant enough to buy straight into it.

 

Automotive companies with worldwide sales understand that in today's world they need to have several production centres around the world. The industry is very capital intensive and decisions have to be taken years in advance. Many factors enter the equation. Too many to list but here is a few. Cost of labour force, Skill of labour force, Location of customers, Tax and tax incentives, location of parts suppliers, stability of business environment, development of local automotive assembly industry. 

 

The president is just talking complete garbage as usual. 

Yes you are right about all the various costs that have to be considered, but these days it's absurd in some cases you literally have parts from all over the world used to make one product, how can it be cheaper to fly in all these parts instead of making them in one place? It's almost as if companies are making parts in different countries just for the sake of it, or to brag about how this part was made in Hungary, that part in China, and that part in Argentina. Ridiculous.

 

In Thailand, it just so happens that car manufacturers also use parts supplied by local manufacturers, making most vehicles built with 90% or more local components. In manufacturing there are also more and more robots being used therefore the cost of labor is less important than it used to be - I'd be surprised if in a few years time there will be any human labor left in any manufacturing facility making cars or motorcycles save for a few supervisors, managers and QC people but all the repetitive tasks will be made by robotics as is already increasingly the case, even in Thailand. Tax incentives certainly bring manufacturing companies here, but consumption taxes are very high in Thailand so even if a vehicle is made here, if it's sold on the local market it will still be relatively expensive, compared to what it would cost in the USA. For example, consider how much a Thai made Honda Civic costs in Thailand compared to a Honda Civic sold in the USA. The Thai made one is more expensive - then what is the advantage of manufacturing in Thailand exactly?

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, jimster said:

Yes you are right about all the various costs that have to be considered, but these days it's absurd in some cases you literally have parts from all over the world used to make one product, how can it be cheaper to fly in all these parts instead of making them in one place? It's almost as if companies are making parts in different countries just for the sake of it, or to brag about how this part was made in Hungary, that part in China, and that part in Argentina. Ridiculous.

 

In Thailand, it just so happens that car manufacturers also use parts supplied by local manufacturers, making most vehicles built with 90% or more local components. In manufacturing there are also more and more robots being used therefore the cost of labor is less important than it used to be - I'd be surprised if in a few years time there will be any human labor left in any manufacturing facility making cars or motorcycles save for a few supervisors, managers and QC people but all the repetitive tasks will be made by robotics as is already increasingly the case, even in Thailand. Tax incentives certainly bring manufacturing companies here, but consumption taxes are very high in Thailand so even if a vehicle is made here, if it's sold on the local market it will still be relatively expensive, compared to what it would cost in the USA. For example, consider how much a Thai made Honda Civic costs in Thailand compared to a Honda Civic sold in the USA. The Thai made one is more expensive - then what is the advantage of manufacturing in Thailand exactly?

 

"The Thai made one is more expensive - then what is the advantage of manufacturing in Thailand exactly?".

 

More expensive when compared to those for sale in the American market but competitively priced when compared to alternatives in the Thai market. There is not one single global price for a vehicle, its price varies based on the market it is sold in.

[Lacessit]

World's biggest vibrators.

Trump's philosophy is when someone hits you, you hit them back twice as hard. That only works when your opponent is the same size. He's trying to take on the whole world.

[Tug]

Nothing has the shake rattle soul like a Harley I’ve had them easy to work on and you will lol I’m proud of Harley to call trumps bs if his base buys ite bs oh well at least the rest of the world doesn’t have to pay a trump tax

[Briggsy]

17 minutes ago, jimster said:

The Thai made one is more expensive - then what is the advantage of manufacturing in Thailand exactly?

It depends where Honda intend it to be sold. Again many variables enter the equation. It is a very complex decision that has to be a long term.

 

Within S E Asia, Thailand has proved resilient in its retention and growth of its automotive industry despite tough competition from Indonesia, The Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia and now, Myanmar. So they must have the right mix of sufficiently low labour costs, sufficiently high skills, sufficiently stable business environment and strong regional agreements to allow Honda access to other markets.

[Lupatria]

7 hours ago, Jeremy50 said:

Has anyone with a flat stomach ever ridden a Harley? Or would it just topple over? Just wondering.

...and have you ever seen a HONDA, KAWASAKI or any other rice burner as beautiful as my bike?

[sandrabbit]

14 minutes ago, Lupatria said:

...and have you ever seen a HONDA, KAWASAKI or any other rice burner as beautiful as my bike?

Did you buy it off Roy Rodgers?

[Lupatria]

8 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

Did you buy it off Roy Rodgers?

No I rebuild it from a Honda Click.

 

[jenny2017]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

World's biggest vibrators.

Trump's philosophy is when someone hits you, you hit them back twice as hard. That only works when your opponent is the same size. He's trying to take on the whole world.

But he shouldn't sleep with his friends' wives. 

[jenny2017]

1 hour ago, Lupatria said:

...and have you ever seen a HONDA, KAWASAKI or any other rice burner as beautiful as my bike?

Thanks! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVcMEB69vc4

[metisdead]

Some troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[jackh]

If only HD took some business advice from the Trump, they wouldn't be in this spot. Too bad for them. The end is near no doubt.

[nong38]

10 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

I've never really been a big Harley fan, preferring the "crotch rockets" myself.  Nothing against HD, they make great bikes, and I have good friends who own them, but just not for me.  But let's face it, Harley is the All American Bike. That's an undisputable fact. HD is, and almost always has been, a symbol of "Americana".  

Building them in Thailand is a double edged sword.  It would definitely lower the prices for those in SE Asia who want to own one, but on the other hand, in the domestic market it could, in some ways, cheapen their value, as they would no longer be the "American Icon" for motorcycles.  

Same thing with Fender guitars, how many are now made in the USA?

[billd766]

7 hours ago, Cadbury said:

Donald might get them to change their mind if he proposed a 500% tariff on HD bikes made in Thailand and imported into the US. That might send a shudder through the spines of HD management.

 

Really? do you think that the USA is the only market in the world for HD motorbikes. Thailand does not HAVE to export to the USA, it can export to any country that wants its products.

[Slip]

21 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Same thing with Fender guitars, how many are now made in the USA?

Same thing with Trump merchandise, how much is now made in the USA?

[rtr4]

Amd wha tabout Bmw s made in Us or Volkswagen amde in Mexico. Is that sign of the end??

[rtr4]

3 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

i voted for trump.  i apologize.

he is a fool, but at least he wasn't she.

 

anyhoo, what we have here is amazing.  it took the likes of trump to get a

classic american icon to outsource. 

 

first he pulls out of the TPP, which results in either increased or continued tariffs on american motorcycles, which results in harley building a factory in thailand to service asian nations.

 

then he imposes tariffs on european metals, resulting in reciprocal tariffs on american motorcycles, resulting in moving production of bikes destined for europe to the thailand factory.

 

i guess this is winning?

The steel tarifs has been recent. The plan for transfering the production was long before and has nothing to do with this. If someone say so it is just an excuse

[DrTuner]

Seems Trump is familiar with Thai quality.

[thaichiro]

Lyin’ Trump continues to embarrass himself and the US by being so ignorant of the facts and taking the additional bonehead step of advertising his ignorance by opening up his yap and spewing stupidity. This rolling pathetic disgrace has permanently injured the presidency and the country. I am ashamed to have him as our President and I apologize to the world for his fascist and fatuous behavior.

[Bluespunk]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

Mr Trump said the iconic bike brand's new Thailand plant marked a "surrender" and "the beginning of the end".

“A tournament, a tournament, a tournament of lies
Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline

It's the end of the world as we know it (I had some time alone)
It's the end of the world as we know it (I had some time alone)
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine (time I had some time alone)
I feel fine (I feel fine)”

 

R.E.M.

[KiwiKiwi]

If the decision to move was made as a result of the import duties, then that decision was made remarkably quickly.

 

Methinks it's an excuse for a move already planned or nearly complete.

 

No fig-leaf needed, if you want to save money on labour, go for it. Blame Trump if you like, that deserves support even if it isn't true.

 

 

[janclaes47]

13 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

If the decision to move was made as a result of the import duties, then that decision was made remarkably quickly.

 

Methinks it's an excuse for a move already planned or nearly complete.

 

No fig-leaf needed, if you want to save money on labour, go for it. Blame Trump if you like, that deserves support even if it isn't true.

 

 

 

Of course it's just an excuse for a decision made long time ago, same as the Thailand factory is an excuse for the cancelling of the trade agreements.

 

I and many other people in Thailand knew already that HD had planned a Thailand plant long before Trump even started his presidential campaign.

[KiwiKiwi]

Just now, janclaes47 said:

 

Of course it's just an excuse for a decision made long time ago, same as the Thailand factory is an excuse for the cancelling of the trade agreements.

 

I and many other people in Thailand knew already that HD had planned a Thailand plant long before Trump even started his presidential campaign.

 

So now they milk it for all it's worth and blame a trade war instead of their own falling bottom line. Seems likely HD are for the gurgler then. It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents.

[candide]

2 hours ago, Slip said:

Same thing with Trump merchandise, how much is now made in the USA?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/08/26/how-many-trump-products-were-made-overseas-heres-the-complete-list/

?

[Redline]

14 hours ago, Briggsy said:

It's all about the soundbite. And the sad thing is many U.S. voters are dumb enough, desperate enough or ignorant enough to buy straight into it.

 

Automotive companies with worldwide sales understand that in today's world they need to have several production centres around the world. The industry is very capital intensive and decisions have to be taken years in advance. Many factors enter the equation. Too many to list but here is a few. Cost of labour force, Skill of labour force, Location of customers, Tax and tax incentives, location of parts suppliers, stability of business environment, development of local automotive assembly industry.

 

The president is just talking complete garbage as usual.

 Most Americans understand more than you might believe, although it appears 30 percent are ignorant fools, and I know some of them personally