Hopes rest on drilling of Tham Luang Cave in Chiang Rai

[webfact]

Hopes rest on drilling of cave

By THE NATION

 

A police paratrooper climbs into a hole above the Tham Luang Cave in Chiang Rai province yesterday in the hope that it may lead down to the cave and 13 people who have gone missing since June 23.

 

Camera to be sent down to assess the condition inside and try to make contact with the 13 missing footballers.

 

RESCUE TEAMS are now preparing to drill down from an area above the Tham Luang Cave in Chiang Rai province in a desperate bid to save 12 teenaged football players and their assistant coach who are believed to have been stranded in the cave due to flash floods since June 23.

 

The drilling spot is above the middle zone of the cave. 

 

 

The hole, according to the rescue plan, will be a small one at first, wide enough to send a camera down and check the situation in the cave and determine if the victims were stranded in that area.

 

“If we make contact with the victims, we will send food down, and drill further to widen the opening,” Suwit Kosuwan, who heads the Environment Geology Bureau’s Active Fault Research Unit, said yesterday.

 

Niwat Boonnop, who heads the Office of Mineral Resources Region 1, said the war room on the rescue operations had already concluded that the drilling operations should go ahead. 

 

“If there is no risk of collapse, we will carry out drilling at three designated spots,” he said. 

 

He added that another chosen spot was near the end of the cave, while the third was near the mouth of the cave. 

 

 

The second spot was chosen because it could be easier for rescuers to move through the cave from there, as that zone may not have been flooded. The last spot has been chosen to make more space available to pump floodwater out of the Tham Luang Cave. 

 

Flooding has been one of the major obstacles to the rescue efforts. 

 

The Royal Thai Navy’s SEALs have already spent five days inside the cave but as of yesterday evening had not been able to locate the missing youths and their coach.

 

As of press time, the drilling equipment had already reached Tham Luang Cave.

 

Asst Professor Suttisak Soralump, an engineering lecturer at Kasetsart University, said the equipment is a “percussion drilling” type. 

 

“We plan to start drilling from a horizontal angle first to minimise the risks of the cave crumbling,” said Suttisak. “The hole will be between four and five inches wide.”

 

Thai oil companty PTT personnel prepares a thermal imaging drone in the moutain of Khun Nam Nang Non Forest Park in Chiang Rai province on June 28, 2018 during rescue operation for a missing children's football team and their coach in Tham Luang cave. A team of US military personnel and British divers joined rescue efforts at a flooded cave in northern Thailand where 12 children and their football coach have been trapped for five days as heavy overnight rains hampered the search. // AFP PHOTO

 

PTT Exploration and Production, the United States Indo-Pacific Command, and the Mineral Resources Department have contributed to the drilling plan with equipment and expertise. 

 

The Engineering Institute of Thailand has already jumped into the rescue effort, providing technical analysis to support the mission.

 

“If the drilling does not encounter obstacles, it would be possible to drill a distance of 100 metres within one day,” Suttisak said. Due to continued rains, the floodwater levels inside the Tham Luang Cave have kept rising despite the use of many large pumps to drain water away.

 

Interior Minister General Anupong Paochinda said it was important to pump out the floodwater so that the SEALs could move further in their search of the cave system. 

 

 US Special Operations Command Pacific Search and Rescue Team's members survey in the cave area as they join the rescue operation for the missing football players and their coach at the Tham Luang cave in Tham Luang Khun Nam Nang Noon Forest Park in Chiang Rai province, Thailand, 28 June 2018. At least 12 members of a youth soccer team are believed to be missing after being trapped in a flooded cave that they were visiting on 23 June. // EPA-EFE PHOTO

 

“The experts from the United States believe the best way was to reduce the floodwater levels so as to facilitate the divers’ operations,” Anupong said. 

 

Naval Special Warfare Command chief Apakorn Yukongkaew, who led the SEALs divers in the search operation inside the cave, said the floodwaters had spread wider inside the cave and almost reached the entrance now.

 

The fate of the 13 members of the Mu Pa Academy Mae Sai, a local football team in Chiang Rai’s Mae Sai district, has caught media spotlight nationally, and internationally. 

 

A team of Thai military, police and local rescue team are seen in the moutain of Khun Nam Nang Non Forest Park in Chiang Rai province searching for new openings to Tham Luang cave during rescue operation for a missing children's football team and their coach on June 28, 2018. A team of US military personnel and British divers joined rescue efforts at a flooded cave in northern Thailand where 12 children and their football coach have been trapped for five days as heavy overnight rains hampered the search. // AFP PHOTO 

 

Many countries have also come forward to provide help, as Thailand has been trying hard to save the stranded footballers. Three foreign diving experts who flew in from Britain have already joined the search inside the cave. 

 

Outside, sniffer dogs have now been recruited to help survey teams scour the area above the cave. 

 

Rescue operations could be easier if there were a passable shaft that connected to the Tham Luang Cave. However, none of the openings found so far provide access to the cave. 

 

 

National Police deputy chief Pol General Wirachai Songmetta led a team to examine a shaft yesterday after it was identified by GPS experts from the US.

 

The examination found that after rescue workers could get down 20 metres, they ran into a dead end. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30348872

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-06-29

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, webfact said:

The hole, according to the rescue plan, will be a small one at first, wide enough to send a camera down and check the situation in the cave and determine if the victims were stranded in that area.

 

“If we make contact with the victims, we will send food down, and drill further to widen the opening,” Suwit Kosuwan, who heads the Environment Geology Bureau’s Active Fault Research Unit, said yesterday.

6 minutes ago, webfact said:

RESCUE TEAMS are now preparing to drill down from an area above the Tham Luang Cave in Chiang Rai province in a desperate bid to save 12 teenaged football players and their assistant coach who are believed to have been stranded in the cave due to flash floods since June 23.

 

 

   Couldnt they have done this six days ago ?

Its been one week and now they decide to drill into the cave 

[Get Real]

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   Couldnt they have done this six days ago ?

Its been one week and now they decide to drill into the cave 

Always somebody moaning, over things. As much as you have read about this very complicated situation, you must have come to the conclusion that they are doing all they can to save theese boys and their coach. Now is not the time for your negative questions. If they are right, there are still a little hope left for the missing team, and just for that reason we should all pray for a positive end to this tragic situation.

There are teams from all part of the world there now, and all are doing what they can. To further cement your nonsense, there are big risks with drilling and therefore all other options are considered and beeing done first. For beeing able to drill and make a successful rescue, they must have all the basics and facts that support the cave will not collapse. If that is not the case, then a drilling could make things worse or even kill the stranded persons. Checking things like that takes time, and that´s why they have waited so long time before taking action on the possible option.

[sanemax]

12 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Always somebody moaning, over things. As much as you have read about this very complicated situation, you must have come to the conclusion that they are doing all they can to save theese boys and their coach. Now is not the time for your negative questions. If they are right, there are still a little hope left for the missing team, and just for that reason we should all pray for a positive end to this tragic situation.

There are teams from all part of the world there now, and all are doing what they can. To further cement your nonsense, there are big risks with drilling and therefore all other options are considered and beeing done first. For beeing able to drill and make a successful rescue, they must have all the basics and facts that support the cave will not collapse. If that is not the case, then a drilling could make things worse or even kill the stranded persons. Checking things like that takes time, and that´s why they have waited so long time before taking action on the possible option.

That isnt the conclusion that I have come to , there seems to be hesitancy and indecision and they seem to have been caught out by the recent heavy rains , they should have envisaged the heavy rains and made preparations for it by drilling Monday morning .

   There is no possibility of the cave collapsing through drilling a small hole . The only delay would be decided the best place to drill and getting the equipment on site and that could have been done on Sunday and drilling beginning on Monday.

   Considering that time is important here , waiting nearly one week is just too long.

[greenchair]

46 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Always somebody moaning, over things. As much as you have read about this very complicated situation, you must have come to the conclusion that they are doing all they can to save theese boys and their coach. Now is not the time for your negative questions. If they are right, there are still a little hope left for the missing team, and just for that reason we should all pray for a positive end to this tragic situation.

There are teams from all part of the world there now, and all are doing what they can. To further cement your nonsense, there are big risks with drilling and therefore all other options are considered and beeing done first. For beeing able to drill and make a successful rescue, they must have all the basics and facts that support the cave will not collapse. If that is not the case, then a drilling could make things worse or even kill the stranded persons. Checking things like that takes time, and that´s why they have waited so long time before taking action on the possible option.

Yes, I agree. 

They are working 24 hours with tag teams. They are there day and night in rain and mud, risking their own lives every minute. It's not possible for them to explain every detail of why they do or don't do something. They are doing everything humanly possible to get to these kids. They deserve nothing but praise and admiration for all their work. I just won't stand for nasty people that want to criticise these outstanding individuals. 

[Get Real]

35 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That isnt the conclusion that I have come to , there seems to be hesitancy and indecision and they seem to have been caught out by the recent heavy rains , they should have envisaged the heavy rains and made preparations for it by drilling Monday morning .

   There is no possibility of the cave collapsing through drilling a small hole . The only delay would be decided the best place to drill and getting the equipment on site and that could have been done on Sunday and drilling beginning on Monday.

   Considering that time is important here , waiting nearly one week is just too long.

As usual you just don´t get it. On top of that, you act like you owuld be some kind of expert on caves, and this one in particular.

How do you know there is no risks with drilling? Do you have experience and education in this particular area? Do you consider yourself better than the people trying everything humanly possible to save theese people. As I said, stop complaining and try to state thing you are totally clueless about.

 

"there seems to be hesitancy and indecision" - Once again you are there and not understanding the big risks with every move. When are you going to learn?

[Get Real]

53 minutes ago, Fish Head Soup said:

Forget praying, that religious nonsense is just a futile act. What is needed is positive actions and less mumbo jumbo of praying and making offerings to mountain spirits.

Here we have another one that tries to talk about mumbo jumbo and connect that to praying. For your information I did not mean that in regard to spirits and offerings on a carpet in the forest.
Hell, I didn´t even mean it in a religious way. All people have something they believe in. For your information that can just be a piece of wood, a photo of a dead relative or something connected with a deeper meaning. No need to go in on that.

With me saying that we had to pray for that everything turns out happily and positive, meant that we can not loose hope and have to beleive that there is still a chance.

If you have come to the point where you consider praying for something mumbo jumbo including spirits, offerings and amulettes????!!!! Oh dear! What can I say? Have you gone native?

[faraday]

Just having a cup of coffee at 05:44.

 

Already there is moaning, & someone saying  Prayer is nonsense.

 

Prayer, gives millions of people comfort & due to this horrible situation, for the boys & families, it is not appropriate to post your insensitive opinion.

 

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, Get Real said:

As usual you just don´t get it. On top of that, you act like you owuld be some kind of expert on caves, and this one in particular.

How do you know there is no risks with drilling? Do you have experience and education in this particular area? Do you consider yourself better than the people trying everything humanly possible to save theese people. As I said, stop complaining and try to state thing you are totally clueless about.

I m not an expert in drilling , its just common sense , like if you drill a hole into your wall, you just know that your house isnt going to fall down .

  Basic common sense

[Get Real]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I m not an expert in drilling , its just common sense , like if you drill a hole into your wall, you just know that your house isnt going to fall down .

  Basic common sense

Wow! you compare the possibility of drilling a hole in your condo wall, with drilling a hole in a mountain down to a natural and flooded cave.
After that, you have the stomach to call that common sense. I guess you made one point, anyway. You just showed the level of knowledge you are on.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Get Real

[sanemax]

Just now, Get Real said:

Wow! you compare the possibility of drilling a hole in your condo wall, with drilling a hole in a mountain down to a natural and flooded cave.
After that, you have the stomach to call that common sense. I guess you made one point, anyway. You just showed the level of knowledge you are on.

They are drilling through rock, they are not drilling through a "flooded cave" .

Rock is quite safe to drill through .

You keep claiming that they needed time to survey the land, BUT, did they survey the land ?

   Did they survey the land for stability or do you just think that they may have ?

[Get Real]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

They are drilling through rock, they are not drilling through a "flooded cave" .

Rock is quite safe to drill through .

You keep claiming that they needed time to survey the land, BUT, did they survey the land ?

   Did they survey the land for stability or do you just think that they may have ?

Again you are talking nonsense!

When did I say they are  drilling through a flooded cave??? Down you have what I wrote. Time to start learning to read. The thing you are calling "common sense" just sunk deeper.

 

"with drilling a hole in a mountain down to a natural and flooded cave."

 

Never claimed that they needed time to survey the land, and can not say 100% that they have done that. What I believe is irrelevant. What I did say was that they are considering all other safer option first, and at the same time are collecting as much facts as they can to be able to make the safest drilling possible.

[NanLaew]

For those complaining how slow this rescue mission appears to be going, take a look at the chronology of the only other broadly comparable and fairly recent rescue of a large group of persons trapped underground, the Chilean mine rescue of 2010.

[sanemax]

37 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

For those complaining how slow this rescue mission appears to be going, take a look at the chronology of the only other broadly comparable and fairly recent rescue of a large group of persons trapped underground, the Chilean mine rescue of 2010.

Quite a difference though , as those men were 688 meters down , so, hardly comparable

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Get Real said:

The expert is talking again. Sounds to me like you should call them and lead the team. Just stop embarrassing yourself anymore.
The only thing you are doing complaining. Whatever the result from this is going to be, the people involved in the rescue mission has been doing all in their power to save lives.

I do agree that it needs someone to lead the team, although I am not the person to do that .

  I am making an observation and I do feel that things can be improved .

Why the need for a 1000 people there ?

900 of them seem to be sitting around doing nothing and looking at maps .

You just need a team of 50 people , with one person in command and five other leaders , experts in their field .

   No need for all the others , hanging around doing nothing .

A small group of people who get things done .

No need for ambulances at the moment , just have one on stand bye for any accidents and summon the rest when they are needed .

   Should have had many pumps there , pumping the water out and drilling should have started last Monday

[KiwiKiwi]

3 hours ago, Get Real said:

Now is not the time for your negative questions.

 

Seems to be a favourite but ridiculous comment in these topics lately. Like the onus for determining the right time is somehow passed to you (or whoever). Any and all questions not only should be asked, but *must* be asked if anything is to be learned from this unholy mess.

 

It is a supreme arrogance for any one poster to tell any other poster that their questions are negative or that 'this is not the time' for them. If it's a club, do what you like, if it's an open forum (even one which requires registration) and no one person is nominated as leading the discussion, then all posters are equal and none are more equal than others, though some might be more bolshie than others.

 

Common sense should prevail, not necessarily opinions.

[thaigirlwatcher]

Interesting that the US military members have the patches with their name, rank and the American flag removed from their uniforms. The question is why? 

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, thaigirlwatcher said:

Interesting that the US military members have the patches with their name, rank and the American flag removed from their uniforms. The question is why? 

No its not , thats irrelevant .

Probably something simple , like there are not there as "soldiers" , they are there as *civilians* doing work, or something technical like that .

[NanLaew]

32 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Quite a difference though , as those men were 688 meters down , so, hardly comparable

Talking about the CHRONOLOGY. Did you read the article and see how multiple entities and disciplines worked together over a period of weeks to work out the most viable solution for that rescue? It took about two weeks to locate them and even then they weren't sheltering in the most likely location.

 

Maybe the absolute uniqueness of cave and mine rescues is lost on you? If they were more frequent and similar, then each country would have a dedicated cave/mine rescue team and defined set or tried and tested procedures and equipment. However, since the few incidents are all different, authorities enlist the assistance and advice of entities and individuals with disparate but broadly similar experience... as it happening in Chiang Rai at this moment.

[thaigirlwatcher]

You could be right. It's just as a former member of the US military I've never seen that before. 

[ravip]

According to an expert >>> More

Hence it would be good for us all to stop unnecessary, sarcastic, insulting or even demeaning comments regarding all the Thai rescue efforts going on at a very critical time like this, some even risking their own lives. The keyboard experts are useless in a dangerous operation.

 

A FEW OPTIONS LEFT

According to Anmar Mirza, national coordinator of the National Cave Rescue Commission in the U.S. and editor of the book Manual of U.S. Cave Rescue Techniques, in a situation like this there are likely only two things that can be done: pump the water down and search for alternative entrances. Thai authorities have been doing both, but pumping efforts have been frustrated by incessant rain and the search for other entrances have so far been dead ends. Mirza said if there was a high-quality map, drilling could be a possibility, but it is extremely difficult for a number of reasons, especially in mountainous terrain, and could also take days to weeks. Thai officials have said that they are considering drilling and are hopeful that limestone will be easier to drill through than some other types of rock.

___

NO HIGH-TECH SOLUTION

Mirza said there is "no current technology that can sense people deep underground, or even more than a few feet underground, nor is such technology likely to be developed in the near to middle future."

[ravip]

10 minutes ago, thaigirlwatcher said:

Interesting that the US military members have the patches with their name, rank and the American flag removed from their uniforms. The question is why? 

I guess they are real experts in their field and need no frills or advertising...

[NanLaew]

6 minutes ago, thaigirlwatcher said:

You could be right. It's just as a former member of the US military I've never seen that before. 

Possibly you served in the days before velcro patches?

[KiChakayan]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

That isnt the conclusion that I have come to , there seems to be hesitancy and indecision and they seem to have been caught out by the recent heavy rains , they should have envisaged the heavy rains and made preparations for it by drilling Monday morning .

   There is no possibility of the cave collapsing through drilling a small hole . The only delay would be decided the best place to drill and getting the equipment on site and that could have been done on Sunday and drilling beginning on Monday.

   Considering that time is important here , waiting nearly one week is just too long.

It took them also nearly a week to call for international assistance. And we know that this assistance remains technical i.e Experienced cave divers from UK and muscle from US. What they would have needed from the start is someone who could have provided expertise at the highest level of the crisis management, which is totally unpalatable for the great Thai leaders.

[NanLaew]

38 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I do agree that it needs someone to lead the team, although I am not the person to do that .

  I am making an observation and I do feel that things can be improved .

Why the need for a 1000 people there ?

900 of them seem to be sitting around doing nothing and looking at maps .

You just need a team of 50 people , with one person in command and five other leaders , experts in their field .

   No need for all the others , hanging around doing nothing .

A small group of people who get things done .

No need for ambulances at the moment , just have one on stand bye for any accidents and summon the rest when they are needed .

   Should have had many pumps there , pumping the water out and drilling should have started last Monday

You're counting heads?

 

You probably haven't been in that sort of terrain with dense overhead cover, constant rain, poor line-of-sight for radio communications and a total lack of safe tracks for teams to search for alternate cave access. There's also the high fatigue rate when doing surface reconnaissance in such terrain and thus the need for a 24/7 operation to have multiple shifts of teams, probably working out of 'fly camps' to maintain the effort. These teams need feeding too. Some of these team members may have slip and fall related injuries due to the treacherous nature of the terrain, or they may need re-hydration or treatment for cuts, scrapes and bug bites. More serious injuries may need ambulance evacuation.

 

I doubt fifty people will hack it but I am quite confident that the few experts, both foreign and local, professional and military, although not entrusted with leadership, they are indeed providing the direction and focus for this search and rescue effort.

 

Just because you observed on the news people sitting around looking at maps and ambulances, that doesn't mean that all they are doing is sitting around looking at maps beside the ambulances no matter how much you want others to believe that's all that's happening.

 

Some may reason that to be seen to be doing something like drilling without having any idea at all where the kids and their teacher are is better than doing nothing regardless if that hasty action is poorly planned or ultimately worthless. Nothing says success like drilling through a subterranean stream and flooding the otherwise dry cavern below where the lost ones have sought safe refuge.

[maximillian]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

   Couldnt they have done this six days ago ?

Its been one week and now they decide to drill into the cave 

 

Couldn't they, couldn't they...

Couldn't they have stopped the rain ?

Seeding the clouds with rainstopppers, it's possible I heard.

(Sarcasm warning on)

[swanny321]

Hope springs eternal.

[fake farang]

5 hours ago, Fish Head Soup said:

Forget praying, that religious nonsense is just a futile act. What is needed is positive actions and less mumbo jumbo of praying and making offerings to mountain spirits.

This seems to go against your avatar

[RandolphGB]

The international help should have been requested earlier 

[janclaes47]

1 hour ago, KiChakayan said:

It took them also nearly a week to call for international assistance

No it didn't ake them a week to call them, it took almost a week for them to arrive, as they obviously don't live around the corner.