Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[bartender100]

• Number of Britons who want UK to leave EU has jumped since the referendum
• Rising numbers of respondents are firmly convinced by the case for departure
• Study said 36 per cent of interviewees wanted to leave the EU, up from 22 per cent in 2015

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5936053/Now-Britons-want-leave-EU-nearly-15-increase-referendum-survey-claims.html

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, bartender100 said:

• Number of Britons who want UK to leave EU has jumped since the referendum
• Rising numbers of respondents are firmly convinced by the case for departure
• Study said 36 per cent of interviewees wanted to leave the EU, up from 22 per cent in 2015

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5936053/Now-Britons-want-leave-EU-nearly-15-increase-referendum-survey-claims.html

The Daily Mail.

 

You’re ‘avin’ a laarf!

[bartender100]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The Daily Mail.

 

You’re ‘avin’ a laarf!

Well I suggest you google it, just about every mainstream newspaper is covering the survey

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, bartender100 said:

Well I suggest you google it, just about every mainstream newspaper is covering the survey

According to the Express, the poll was carried out at the end of last year - why would they wait till now to trot it out? Of much more relevance would be a poll showing the effect of the current omnishambles.

[The Renegade]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Why are you bothering to comment on this thread if you have determined that engagement with Brexiteers is a waste of time? 

Not much we agree on.

 

Do I really need to spell it out for you ??

 

T....... R.......O........L........L

[tomacht8]

Why not just postpone the Brexit. In time, the UK could actively formulate its concerns within the EU Parliament.  Parallel, the possibilities of a reasonable brexit could be clarified inside and outside. It is quite certain that from today's perspective, the paradis will not start on March 29, 2019 within the UK.

[The Renegade]

Sajid Javid, wait for the White Paper but:

 

Quote

What I can tell you, because the prime minister has said this, so I’m not pre-empting something that’s in the white paper, is that there will be a complete, total end to freedom of movement.

 

Freedom of movement as we understand it today will end, but also there will be no version of that, no derivative of that, no type of free movement, no backdoor version of free movement. Free movement will end.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2018/jul/10/theresa-may-new-cabinet-boris-johnson-resignation-brexit-live

 

So the White Paper idea will already have been dismissed by the EU.

 

Taxi for May.

[candide]

42 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

According to the Express, the poll was carried out at the end of last year - why would they wait till now to trot it out? Of much more relevance would be a poll showing the effect of the current omnishambles.

Actually the Express provides more details

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/986461/brexit-news-latest-leave-eu-referendum-brexit-poll-theresa-may

 

The most interesting information is that if we totalise 36% who want to leave and 19% who want to remain, we only get 55% of respondents! What about the remaining 45%? That's a huge share! There's no information given about it. Did they answer "no opinion?"

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

No please!!! Don't let this circus go on. The Chequers "agreement" seems unacceptable to nearly everyone so that one is DOA. The UK won't accept a straight Norway or Canada solution and the EU will not go for anything else. That leaves remain in the EU (unlikely) or no deal.

After a couple of years of a disastrous no deal Brexit the UK will reapply for EU membership. Everybody happy again.

At least do this in stages. N+CU looks about right

 

Big mistake to lose our rebates and opt outs IMO

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Grouse said:

At least do this in stages. N+CU looks about right

 

Big mistake to lose our rebates and opt outs IMO

Thatcher will be spinning in her grave!

[tebee]

2 hours ago, stephenterry said:

On a scale of 1-10, I think it highly unlikely (2) that a 'no deal' agreement will be the outcome. Unless May is pushed out of office, which is more likely. (3)

 

Why? Because it's neither in the EU or the UK's interest to crash out, as May has already stated in her cabinet 'agreement' on the way forward.

I would say it's about a 30% chance we crash out with no deal - probably through inertia - 30% chance we end up with BRINO EEA+CU - 30% chance we give the whole idea up and remain -  and the remaining 10% we end up with some other sort of deal like Canada

 

But the whole things far to fluid and unstable - odds can change at any time.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Exactly!  Just like my friend's daughter who voted Remain because she likes going on holiday to Magaluf

It take it you objected to that and voted leave?

Are you still here?

[tebee]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

Not much we agree on.

 

Do I really need to spell it out for you ??

 

T....... R.......O........L........L

Always accuse other of what you yourself are doing - it's from the Trump playbook

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

To be fair there were probably just as many Remain voters who didn't hear (or understand) all the arguments, or were taken in by lies.

 

More so. All the panic Googling after the vote was from remain majority areas (well London).

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Thatcher will be spinning in her grave!

Yes, she wanted out 28 years ago. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

More so. All the panic Googling after the vote was from remain majority areas (well London).

Meanwhile, right now, the UK’s negotiating position is BINO.

[tebee]

3 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Here is 3 reasons to be against the single market.

 

By staying in the single market it ensures that the UK remains under the control of Brussels, under the jurisdiction of the ECJ and keeps the UK pumping £ Billions into the EU.

 

These seem like legitimate reasons for being against the single market.

 

Perhaps you would like to stump up a contribution to the £12 Billion a year, less rebate that it costs the UK to allow you to access those 500 million people ?

One car company reckons us leaving will cost them 1.2 billion pounds. if they decide to leave because of that, it's going to cost us all a lot more in lost taxes and jobs 

 

Added to which  the £12 Billion a year isn't really all lost. A good deal of that comes backs to the UK anyway and included in that is the cost of running the regulatory agencies  that we will have to set up our own versions of post brexit.

Edited July 10, 2018 by tebee

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

This post shows that Brexiteers don't have and never will have a grasp of the intricacies or even the basics of EU membership.

I think that one has to realise that most of these people's thinking is on a par with flat-earthers and any attempt to engage them in rational argument is a complete waste of time...... ridicule is the only available option.....did they seriously think, that all leave voters had any idea what they werereally voting for, let alone the same idea?

It's like herding cats with a tin of katomeat; they all follow the smell but if you put down the plate they squabble he'll over who's going to eat it.

And this post shows that remainers like you have no grasp of why the vote to leave was so big.    

[Chomper Higgot]

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

And this post shows that remainers like you have no grasp of why the vote to leave was so big.    

Which isn’t actually the issue.

 

Focus on why the UK’s negotiating position has flipped to BINO.

[whatsupdoc]

47 minutes ago, Grouse said:

At least do this in stages. N+CU looks about right

 

Big mistake to lose our rebates and opt outs IMO

I agree N+CU looks like the best option now for the UK, but several red lines need to be erased for that. Think of freedom of movement, role of ECJ, paying into the EU budget... Cannot see the Tory government doing that.

 

I guess the UK can forget about the rebate in any scenario and to be honest, Schengen and even the euro are quite good for most Northern European countries taking part in it. But to have opt outs is obviously not a bad thing for the UK.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, whatsupdoc said:

I agree N+CU looks like the best option now for the UK, but several red lines need to be erased for that. Think of freedom of movement, role of ECJ, paying into the EU budget... Cannot see the Tory government doing that.

 

I guess the UK can forget about the rebate in any scenario and to be honest, Schengen and even the euro are quite good for most Northern European countries taking part in it. But to have opt outs is obviously not a bad thing for the UK.

And non of that anywhere near as good as the deal the U.K. already has.

[The manic]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

It's the normal 'system' for most countries?

 

Apply for a job, and if offered the job - the applicant and employer fill out the necessary paperwork.  No "worker permit queues" necessary.

Then you have never worked abroad or been tested for TB or  HIV to get a job. Or has CRC or security check which is The system used by the real world in which I have been working and travelling for forty years

It works well not the eurozone hell. No body from England can set up a small business in France or Italy.  They don't  play by rules.  Even the Italians and french hate their own government and mafia interference and find the UK better for business. You know nothing about the reality of the real world just the fantasy. The EU only benefits multinational corporations and illegally immigrants

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Meanwhile, right now, the UK’s negotiating position is BINO.

Meanwhile, the truth hurts. 

[nauseus]

22 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And non of that anywhere near as good as the deal the U.K. already has.

Great deal:10BN/year for a 90BN trade deficit. Perfect. At least we don't have to make our own laws!

[CG1 Blue]

 

Just imagine if the UK had never been a part of the EU project, and was still an independent sovereign nation; I wonder if we would have joined…(enter dream sequence)...

 

Seeing an opportunity to grow the EU budget,  Juncker and his team of commissioners in Brussels approach the UK and say “Come join our club and trade freely with 27 other nations across Europe, including Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary, Lithuania, Romania and Estonia.”

 

“Errr..sounds interesting!” says the UK.  “Is it free to join?”

No, it will cost you around £10bn per year

 

“Ok, and is that it?”

“No, you have to allow people from all 27 member states to move freely into the UK as they choose”

 

“Ok, is that it?”

“No, you will be under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice”

 

“Ok, is that it?”

“No, you will have to share your fishing waters under the CFP”

 

“Ok, is that it?”

“No, you will not be allowed to strike trade deals with countries outside the EU independently”

 

“Ok, is that it?”

“No, you will have to adhere to the Common Agricultural Policy which protects producers, but results in higher food prices and mass surplus wastage”

 

Ok, and if we ever want to leave, will the EU work with us to help it happen smoothly and to both party’s benefit?

“No, we will do all we can to make sure you can NEVER leave!”

[The manic]

33 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Meanwhile, the truth hurts. 

Dunno what bino means

[nontabury]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

37% is not even remotely close to a majority, no matter how you try to spin it.

I just cannot understand you, a committed Scottish nationalist.

You screamed that Scotland’s entry into the Union hundreds of years ago,was not democratic, as the general public were never given the vote, the same of course could be said of the English at that time. Now in the 21st century the Scots democratically voted to remain inside the U.K , and the the British people as a whole voted to leave the hated E.U. Yet for some perverse narrow minded reason you are against democratic votes.

[aright]

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 8:48 AM, sandyf said:

The only reason Trump wants to talk about a trade deal is to try and increase exports to the UK. With a population of about 5 times the UK , the 'bully boy' mentality creeps in with the intention of screwing the UK into the ground. 

The sad fact is he will probably get away with it, the post brexit government will capitulate in order to prove a point, irrespective of the cost.

We can all look forward to the shops being full of american made Cornish pasties and Stilton, not that it will matter, local concerns will have already shut up shop.

 

You only have to look at what is going between the US and the EU/China. This is a man that would have quite happily shut down the Bombardier factory in Belfast. Only the delusional would see any chance of a good deal for the UK.

 

12 hours ago, sandyf said:

You have obviously chose to ignore the topic title, which relates to the brexit negotiations.

Emotional speculation and opinion on EU member state domestic issues have no bearing on the brexit negotiations whatsoever and are effectively off topic.

If you want to discuss such issues create another thread rather than hijacking comments on this one.

 

 

"Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain"

 

it's called hypocrisy  when we cannot see ourselves or judge ourselves the way we see and judge others.”

[JAG]

26 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I just cannot understand you, a committed Scottish nationalist.

You screamed that Scotland’s entry into the Union hundreds of years ago,was not democratic, as the general public were never given the vote, the same of course could be said of the English at that time. Now in the 21st century the Scots democratically voted to remain inside the U.K , and the the British people as a whole voted to leave the hated E.U. Yet for some perverse narrow minded reason you are against democratic votes.

No, no, no. He is certainly not against democratic votes, as long as the result is the one he wants!

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Of course extending the Article 50 deadline would be acceptable to the EU. It means the continued handing over of the UK's moolah.

 

This is not a self inflicted deadline. It is an Article 50 deadline. How surprising that you do not know this ?

 

Another Referendum or election. Not likely to happen. May getting ousted will bring on neither.

You seem to have difficulty in expressing anything politely 

 

There was no requirement to trigger article 50 without carrying out ANY analyses or deciding what the UK wanted or getting the public on side. The EU have already stated that there would not be a problem if we requested this.

 

IMO, to throw away existing rebates and opt outs in the current febrile atmosphere is foolish at best.

 

Again, IMO, if the Cons lose May after losing Cameron they will have difficulty avoiding an election.