Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Is it really ? Wow

 

......

 

A remainers wet dream.

 

It is no longer a UK decision to postpone Article 50. That would be a decision taken by the EU 27. 

Well it hard brexit is going to do so much damage to the rest of the EU as leavers say, would not the 27 be grateful for such an opportunity ? 

[The Renegade]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

Well it hard brexit is going to do so much damage to the rest of the EU as leavers say, would not the 27 be grateful for such an opportunity ? 

Why are  you asking me ?

 

Go ask the EU 27 if they can facilitate your wet dream.

 

Ask them about CETA while you are there.

 

Quote

Italy will not ratify the European Union’s free trade agreement with Canada, Deputy Prime Minister Luigi Di Maio said on Friday, potentially scuppering the EU’s biggest accord in years.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/13/say-cheese-why-italy-wont-ratify-eu-free-trade-deal-with-canada

 

That is why it takes the EU an average of 10 years to strike a trade deal ??

Edited July 13, 2018 by The Renegade

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Grouse has been struck down by bird  flu

 

Spiderman has taken his place ?

We still waiting for you to tell us a bit about yourself. Are you shy?

[The Renegade]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

We still waiting for you to tell us a bit about yourself. Are you shy?

That would be off topic and we all know how much you like squawking about off topic stuff ??

[My Thai Life]

The UK has the 2nd highest GDP in the EU and has a trade deficit in goods with the EU/Germany. 

 

Obviously the EU/Germany is worried abut the UK leaving, especially as the US has initiated a trade war with the  EU/Germany.

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by My Thai Life
...

[vogie]

37 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

I believe under May it is called the '' Capitulation '' plan 

Conservative MPs have been asked to withdraw letters demanding a vote of confidence in Theresa May amid fears the Prime Minister could be on the brink of being forced out of Downing Street, sources have told The Telegraph. 

Government whips are trying to prevent 48 notes being sent to the chair of the party's ruling 1922 committee, as the number would trigger a crunch vote which Brexit-backing MPs think she would lose. 

 

://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/13/conservative-mps-asked-withdraw-letters-demanding-vote-confidence/

 

 

 

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Is it really ? Wow

 

That is what May and Robbins have been doing with the EU for months. 

 

It does not appear to be working. So it might be better going full loco and telling the EU, no more negotiation, the UK leaves the EU on 29 March and WTO rules apply from that date.

 

That might just focus their minds a little bit.

 

A remainers wet dream.

 

It is no longer a UK decision to postpone Article 50. That would be a decision taken by the EU 27. 

All agreed in principle; just need to apply. You know it makes sense ( but you would put the housekeeping on the two year old filly, Numpty, in the 2.30 at Uttoxeter because of the upside ?

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Conservative MPs have been asked to withdraw letters demanding a vote of confidence in Theresa May amid fears the Prime Minister could be on the brink of being forced out of Downing Street, sources have told The Telegraph. 

Government whips are trying to prevent 48 notes being sent to the chair of the party's ruling 1922 committee, as the number would trigger a crunch vote which Brexit-backing MPs think she would lose. 

 

://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/13/conservative-mps-asked-withdraw-letters-demanding-vote-confidence/

 

 

 

I think she has a couple of months grace before the trigger is pulled.

 

No point in doing anything until the EU says yes or no to her White Bog Roll.

 

Tory Party Conference would be the time to do it.

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

That would be off topic and we all know how much you like squawking about off topic stuff ??

Not at all, you are the greatest contributor on this thread and your fans would like to know a little more about you! It's not compulsory 

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Horsesh!t ??

 

Now flap off and provide a source for that pile of manure ?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-06-14/brexit-postponement-said-to-be-an-option-if-talks-get-messier

 

more to follow but it would as discussed on Radio 4

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/postpone-brexit-date-and-prolong-transition-suggest-uk-mps/amp/

Edited July 13, 2018 by Grouse

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-06-14/brexit-postponement-said-to-be-an-option-if-talks-get-messier

 

more to follow but it would as discussed on Radio 4

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/postpone-brexit-date-and-prolong-transition-suggest-uk-mps/amp/

Both articles discuss the possibility of extending the Article 50 deadline, which is already written in stone in Para 3 of Article 50. This is totally different from:

 

56 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Postpone Article 50

Try again when you understand the difference between an extension and a postponement.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Many British are only interested in price and don't care about quality. Exporting has driven quality up. I don't mean ISO 9000 I mean TQM a la Japan. Meanwhile we still build crap houses for example. Why?

Many British may only be interested in price, but when a bunch of Romanian farm hands living 8 to a caravan build a shoddy wall that looks terrible and is potentially dangerous, there are no winners IMO. 

[The Renegade]

Poor Treeza and her White Bog Paper ?

 

Quote

Theresa May finally has a Brexit plan but she may not have enough votes to see it through — and that’s before she’s started worrying about Brussels.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexiteer-mps-poised-to-derail-theresa-may-brexit-masterplan-tories/

[vogie]

27 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Poor Treeza and her White Bog Paper ?

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexiteer-mps-poised-to-derail-theresa-may-brexit-masterplan-tories/

Interesting times ahead. ?

[tebee]

36 minutes ago, vogie said:

Interesting times ahead. ?

May you live in interesting times !

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

May you live in interesting times !

My most interesting tv show. Deal or no Deal.

[nontabury]

6 hours ago, The Renegade said:

And yet you somehow think that heading back in that direction is hilarious ?

 

That is what you call ignorance.

 Perhaps he thinks that we should’t put Such a high reliance on services at the expense of manufacturing.

Put all your eggs in one basket,comes to mind.

Edited July 13, 2018 by nontabury

[billd766]

3 hours ago, The Renegade said:

I believe under May it is called the '' Capitulation '' plan 

 

Perhaps it may be a re-enactment of the 1938 Neville Chamberlain plan.

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Both articles discuss the possibility of extending the Article 50 deadline, which is already written in stone in Para 3 of Article 50. This is totally different from:

 

Try again when you understand the difference between an extension and a postponement.

Semantics, semitics, semiotics you get my meaning.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Perhaps it may be a re-enactment of the 1938 Neville Chamberlain plan.

You may care to read up on that. If we had gone to war in 1938 we would probably have lost. I recommend the novel, Munich; great read and informative. I suggest we also play for time.

[stephenterry]

21 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Ohhhh wail, howl and cry buckets of tears ??

 

As a long term project, that should have already started, a plan should have been put in motion to start building, producing and making ALL the stuff that the UK currently imports but should be being produced in the UK.

 

Loads of jobs.

 

Great for fighting climate change.

 

Self reliant and great for the economy.

 

What is not to like ?

 

And remainers complain that they get abused, castigated and their intelligence levels called into question on a daily basis ??

The present government hasn't got any plan, as has been demonstrated over the last two years, culminating in a white paper that will most likely be rejected by both the EU and Brexiteer hardliners. But I do admire your positive outlook on what should have commenced right after the referendum, but hasn't apart from the government stockpiling processed foods this last week - and probably won't be really underway until rationing - apart from fish - starts in April 2019.

 

As for your last comment...if you can't recognise British banter, you're in the wrong place, old boy. 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

You may care to read up on that. If we had gone to war in 1938 we would probably have lost. I recommend the novel, Munich; great read and informative. I suggest we also play for time.

I thought we were.⏰

[stephenterry]

On 7/12/2018 at 9:55 PM, billd766 said:

 

I am part of the cause of the younger generation bearing the consequences. I admit it

 

Right back in 1975 I was one of the millions of people who voted to join the EEC and believed the government lies back then. This was long before computers were common, there were no mobile phones and the internet as we know it today simply didn't exist.

 

Back then the government put its side up through the newspapers and TV and sadly, back then we believed them simply because there were NO other sources of information available.

 

I waited 40 years for a referendum and when it came along I voted to leave because over the 4 decades between ticking the yes box and the referendum, aided by the availability of the internet I can see how I was lied to back then.

 

If you are not old enough to have voted back then you have no idea what was put up for your belief. You sound as though you come from a couple of generations after mine and you were brought up to believe that the EU is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It really isn't.

 

Your problem is that you have nothing to measure it against.

 

I do, as do most of my generation which is why WE voted to leave because we CAN compare the good to the bad and to the very very ugly.

 

There is NO substitute for hard won experience.

Well Blld, you come across as a reasonable person, and at least you have your own opinion, unlike several others who prefer flaming and trolling. And will do so to this post by cherry-picking sentences and taking it out of context in contravention to Forum rule 16. That's a given.

 

You  maybe surprised to learn, Blld, that you were lied to by the leavers camp in this 2016 referendum, as per the red bus and NHS claim, amongst other blue sky rhetoric by Johnson and Gove, and Fox who has gone quiet since he realised trade deals don't just happen. Very good campaigning but totally misleading. I understand, though, the desperate shortage of funding for the NHS has galvanised the PM to rob her magic tree - and just maybe any fortuitous slice of EU payment savings or defence spending could be diverted to keeping the NHS from disintegrating.

 

You must  also realise that trying to unravel over 40 years of the UK being immersed in the EU - even if you call it EU mismanagement which is also debatable as 80% of the EU budget is (mis)managed by the member countries - is an impossible 'short to medium term' project for any government to undertake.  That is clear from the current disaster about to happen - and it will be a disaster.

 

IMO, experience, to a degree, comes with age as one learns not to repeat the same mistakes that is called life. If you or I live long enough we will both realise that Brexit was a huge mistake for which the younger generation will need to finance. As far as that younger generation goes, unlike those that experienced lack of alternative information (your statement) in the 70's, their world does have access to the internet, where information is available to all. That's why after the summer exams whole swathes of young eligible voters will be canvassing across the UK for the government to change course on Brexit. Because they consider it's not the best for Britain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, aright said:

My argument is as much flawed as your so called reality is conjecture.

You and all the others are quite free to continue quoting historical stats in the belief that they will remain unchanged post brexit.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, aright said:

I will take it you can't explain it to me then.

QED

You are perfectly correct. If you fail to understand what Trump said, then it cannot be explained to you.

[sandyf]

Looks like the "common rulebook" is already out the window.

 

The president said he had read reports that Ms May’s EU withdrawal plan might impede a US trade deal – the securing of which has come to signify whether Brexit is a success.

But he said that after speaking with the prime minister’s representatives, a deal “will absolutely be possible”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/trump-theresa-may-uk-visit-brexit-us-trade-deal-queen-press-conference-a8446436.html

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

Many British are only interested in price and don't care about quality. Exporting has driven quality up. I don't mean ISO 9000 I mean TQM a la Japan. Meanwhile we still build crap houses for example. Why?

Quite, in years gone by quality and H&S were not considered priorities. I know from personal experience that the introduction of the EU directive on gas appliances in 1990 pushed up quality and made great strides in consumer protection, something the UK government had shied away from. The benefits were never explained to the general public, manufacturers just blamed the EU for pushing up prices. Reports at the time indicated the public would prefer to put their life at risk with a cheap and dodgy appliance. Without standards quality goes out the window.

 

Before anyone mentions the BSI, I sat on a BSI committee in the early 80's and no one was joking when they said it took 10 years to get anything done.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

Well Blld, you come across as a reasonable person, and at least you have your own opinion, unlike several others who prefer flaming and trolling. And will do so to this post by cherry-picking sentences and taking it out of context in contravention to Forum rule 16. That's a given.

 

You  maybe surprised to learn, Blld, that you were lied to by the leavers camp in this 2016 referendum, as per the red bus and NHS claim, amongst other blue sky rhetoric by Johnson and Gove, and Fox who has gone quiet since he realised trade deals don't just happen. Very good campaigning but totally misleading. I understand, though, the desperate shortage of funding for the NHS has galvanised the PM to rob her magic tree - and just maybe any fortuitous slice of EU payment savings or defence spending could be diverted to keeping the NHS from disintegrating.

 

You must  also realise that trying to unravel over 40 years of the UK being immersed in the EU - even if you call it EU mismanagement which is also debatable as 80% of the EU budget is (mis)managed by the member countries - is an impossible 'short to medium term' project for any government to undertake.  That is clear from the current disaster about to happen - and it will be a disaster.

 

IMO, experience, to a degree, comes with age as one learns not to repeat the same mistakes that is called life. If you or I live long enough we will both realise that Brexit was a huge mistake for which the younger generation will need to finance. As far as that younger generation goes, unlike those that experienced lack of alternative information (your statement) in the 70's, their world does have access to the internet, where information is available to all. That's why after the summer exams whole swathes of young eligible voters will be canvassing across the UK for the government to change course on Brexit. Because they consider it's not the best for Britain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I too voted in the 1975 referendum. I voted to join the EC (European Communities) not the EU. The EC was very beneficial to Britain at the time. However, it's always had a bad press from right wing rags such as The Sun, The Daily Mail et al. One prime example is Health and Safety legislation. It was a precursor to us joining the EC that we adopted their health and safety rules. Thus, the Health and Safety at Work Act (1974) was created and the "big 6" regulations that underpin it. Check the stats. This legislation has saved thousands of British lives and many more thousands from serious injury. Yet it's a constant source of derision from the right. Brexiteers wish to dismantle this legislation, allowing unscrupulous businesses to, once again, put the lives of British workers in jeopardy to maximise shareholder profits.

 

The sea change came with the Maastricht Treaty, followed by the Amsterdam Treaty, Niece Treaty and finally the Lisbon Treaty which led to the formation of the EU. All of these treaties sought to extend and strengthen the powers of the EC until it effectively became a European government with Germany at it's head. Germany had finally achieved it's dream after twice failing to do this by force, the Fourth Reich has been created without firing a single shot.

 

Clearly, I'm no fan of the EU, but still voted to remain for two reasons:

 

1. Leaving undoubtedly will cause untold damage to the British economy, something we may never recover from.

 

2. It's better to be inside the tent p***ing out, than to be outside the tent p***ing in. We're British, these colours don't run, better to stay and fight than to run and hide.

 

Come on lads, stay and fight, you know those Germans don't like it up 'em!

 

Renegade? More like yellow belly, if you ask me.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Spidey

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

I too voted in the 1975 referendum. I voted to join the EC (European Communities) not the EU. The EC was very beneficial to Britain at the time. However, it's always had a bad press from right wing rags such as The Sun, The Daily Mail et al. One prime example is Health and Safety legislation. It was a precursor to us joining the EC that we adopted their health and safety rules. Thus, the Health and Safety at Work Act (1974) was created and the "big 6" regulations that underpin it. Check the stats. This legislation has saved thousands of British lives and many more thousands from serious injury. Yet it's a constant source of derision from the right. Brexiteers wish to dismantle this legislation, allowing unscrupulous businesses to, once again, put the lives of British workers in jeopardy to maximise shareholder profits.

 

The sea change came with the Maastricht Treaty, followed by the Amsterdam Treaty, Niece Treaty and finally the Lisbon Treaty which led to the formation of the EU. All of these treaties sought to extend and strengthen the powers of the EC until it effectively became a European government with Germany at it's head. Germany had finally achieved it's dream after twice failing to do this by force, the Fourth Reich has been created without firing a single shot.

 

Clearly, I'm no fan of the EU, but still voted to remain for two reasons:

 

1. Leaving undoubtedly will cause untold damage to the British economy, something we may never recover from.

 

2. It's better to be inside the tent p***ing out, than to be outside the tent p***ing in. We're British, these colours don't run, better to stay and fight than to run and hide.

 

Come on lads, stay and fight, you know those Germans don't like it up 'em!

 

Renegade? More like yellow belly, if you ask me.

The EU was created because the EC was failing. A customs union isn't enough. The disaster came in the form of the EURO. That was a huge and bizarre mistake. There was never rational justification for it. Support for it was based on emotionalism.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

I too voted in the 1975 referendum. I voted to join the EC (European Communities) not the EU. The EC was very beneficial to Britain at the time. However, it's always had a bad press from right wing rags such as The Sun, The Daily Mail et al. One prime example is Health and Safety legislation. It was a precursor to us joining the EC that we adopted their health and safety rules. Thus, the Health and Safety at Work Act (1974) was created and the "big 6" regulations that underpin it. Check the stats. This legislation has saved thousands of British lives and many more thousands from serious injury. Yet it's a constant source of derision from the right. Brexiteers wish to dismantle this legislation, allowing unscrupulous businesses to, once again, put the lives of British workers in jeopardy to maximise shareholder profits.

 

The sea change came with the Maastricht Treaty, followed by the Amsterdam Treaty, Niece Treaty and finally the Lisbon Treaty which led to the formation of the EU. All of these treaties sought to extend and strengthen the powers of the EC until it effectively became a European government with Germany at it's head. Germany had finally achieved it's dream after twice failing to do this by force, the Fourth Reich has been created without firing a single shot.

 

Clearly, I'm no fan of the EU, but still voted to remain for two reasons:

 

1. Leaving undoubtedly will cause untold damage to the British economy, something we may never recover from.

 

2. It's better to be inside the tent p***ing out, than to be outside the tent p***ing in. We're British, these colours don't run, better to stay and fight than to run and hide.

 

Come on lads, stay and fight, you know those Germans don't like it up 'em!

 

Renegade? More like yellow belly, if you ask me.

It's true the HSWA 1974 has greatly improved safety and health but it's also true that this is not all down to the EU. This act (or similar) was already in the works (ref Robens Report) in the UK before it joined the the EEC in 1973.

 

Leaving will certainly cause some economic damage but we will recover. However, this damage will not be limited to the UK. The more financially exposed parts of the EU will have more great difficulty when the next recession hits and mommy EU will not be able to save all of its babies next time. It's better to be outside the tent before it collapses when the guy ropes break. 

 

Yes, the succession of treaties have produced the EU that exists today and yes, it seems that Germany is the permanent chair. So sod that - let's get out.

Edited July 14, 2018 by nauseus