Put your cards on the table, EU makes last Brexit call to Britain

[tebee]

2 hours ago, The Renegade said:

So, according to you, job will be lost due to Brexit.

 

Did it never occur to you that jobs will also be created by Brexit ?

 

Nah. That would never enter your head, you, and people like you can only focus on the negative.

yea - jobs will be created by brexit - we'll need loads more customs officials, border guards and lots of staff for the new agencies that will replace the EU ones.

 

Of course these will all be civil service jobs so the hard working taxpayers will need to pay for them.....

 

I see no new opportunities opening up that would create new manufacturing or finance jobs - except possibly  insolvency practitioners   

[The Renegade]

The latest Brexit p!ssing in the wind attempt

 

Quote

A petition is under way to make EU citizenship permanent, despite the probability that UK nationals will lose it after Brexit.

 

The UK organiser of the petition, Anthony Simpson, told the BBC that "the point is to raise the issue - a lot of UK nationals don't understand they are also EU citizens".

 

Quote

His earlier ECI, called "Retaining European Citizenship", got only 24,000 signatures.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44871876

 

Mr Simpson does not understand that there is no such thing as EU Citizenship. He is confusing rights conferred on Citizens of EU Countries as EU Citizenship.

 

Easy mistake to make, that was the mantra thrown about to make transition to EU Superstate more palatable.

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by The Renegade

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

I've got 4 houses in France, on long term lets. When I rebuilt them, although I did three quarters of the work myself(+family members)  , I also employed both British and French builders to do work, so I spoke to many myself.

 

French ones, very good workmanship, but expensive and very long lead times - some couldn't start the work for two years !

British ones, a mixed bag, had one really good guy, but he returned to the Uk to build his retirement home there, before the PP on the plot he had bought ran out. Others less so - one "master builder" ended up having to redo about 50% of what he did, another tilled  a shower  by butting the tiles together and not using any grout. 

 

Worst I saw, was someone else's house, where they proudly showed off their new loft conversion - the guy had cut through  the horizontals of the A frame to give the headroom and cut through half the rafters on one side to put in a dormer. All that was now supporting them was a piece of 6 x 1 nailed across the cut ends!   

 

  

It's enough to make you hit the roof, innit?

[The Renegade]

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

I see no new opportunities opening up that would create new manufacturing or finance jobs - except possibly  insolvency practitioners   

Of course you do not see any new opportunities.

 

You cannot see anything other than doom & gloom sprinkled with a massive dose of negativity.

[nauseus]

55 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Who would ever have thought of that?

 

Currently, UK driving licences are valid in all EU countries, plus Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland.

But unless a specific agreement is reached, UK drivers will need "additional documentation" in Europe after Brexit, the report says.

 

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fuk-politics-44881058&oq=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fuk-politics-44881058&aqs=chrome..69i58j69i57.-1j0j4&client=ms-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Sound like driving most anywhere else in the world. Oh, wait!

[tebee]

5 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Of course you do not see any new opportunities.

 

You cannot see anything other than doom & gloom sprinkled with a massive dose of negativity.

OK tell me what these new opportunities are then ?

[tomacht8]

40 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Yes it is tragic, some people might have to get off their @rse and do something.

 

How difficult is it to get an IDP,  if you require one at a massive cost of around £5?

 

What you also fail to mention is that drivers from  all EU countries, plus Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland will also require the same if they wish to drive in the UK.

 

So let's not just make it about '' UK drivers ''

Lucky, only £5, my last IDP cost me £12 and a half day waiting.
The issuing authority must then be in the home country.
Does that mean that all the UK people living in the EU and all the EU people living in the UK have to go home to get this &§@ IDP?

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

OK tell me what these new opportunities are then ?

Probably selling up and relocating to Thailand, and let the Brits sort out their own mess. 

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

OK tell me what these new opportunities are then ?

I have told you on many occasions, that you cannot understand it is your issue to deal with.

 

Tell me one Country, who is a Net Importer, that can be considered doing well for itself ?

 

Most of the goods, that we currently import, should be getting manufactured and produced in the UK.

 

Massive benefits including millions of employment opportunities.

[tomacht8]

19 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

I have told you on many occasions, that you cannot understand it is your issue to deal with.

 

Tell me one Country, who is a Net Importer, that can be considered doing well for itself ?

 

Most of the goods, that we currently import, should be getting manufactured and produced in the UK.

 

Massive benefits including millions of employment opportunities.

But then the UK should start growing fruits, vegetables and coffee right away.
Looking forward to see how the UK farmers sting their asparagus for 20£ an hour.
Brexiteer economics Volume 1 - LOL

[tebee]

16 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

I have told you on many occasions, that you cannot understand it is your issue to deal with.

 

Tell me one Country, who is a Net Importer, that can be considered doing well for itself ?

 

Most of the goods, that we currently import, should be getting manufactured and produced in the UK.

 

Massive benefits including millions of employment opportunities.

OK I'll bite - becoming self-sufficient is indeed a laudable aim, but just how do you intend to achieve it ?

 

Unless you are intending to replace the free market with state-sponsored industry, the UK is a relatively high wage economy and manufacturing tends to gravitate to the cheapest -  those with low wages and poor safety standards.

 

As far as I can see you have two choices - impose high import duties, like Thailand does with cars - but that then makes things more expensive to the British consumer - who I guess will not be to happy - and stokes the fires of inflation.

 

Second choice is to devalue the pound substantially - but you'd probably have to do it by at least 50% to make enough of a difference. Has the advantage of bringing house prices more into line with European levels and will substantially reduce immigration. British pensioners abroad will be stuffed and imports of raw materials become much more expensive. 

 

What do you suggest ?   

    

[stephenterry]

22 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

But then the UK should start growing fruits, vegetables and coffee right away.
Looking forward to see how the UK farmers sting their asparagus for 20£ an hour.
Brexiteer economics Volume 1 - LOL

But after Brexit when the UK reclaims its fishing waters, the fish graph will change to minimum imports and greater exports. But alarming stats, all the same.

[tomacht8]

17 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

But after Brexit when the UK reclaims its fishing waters, the fish graph will change to minimum imports and greater exports. But alarming stats, all the same.

This does not necessarily have to be the case, as most of the imports are overseas fish.
In 2016, imports were highest for tuna (more than 120,000 tonnes), cod (120,000 tonnes) and shrimps and prawns (more than 80,000 tonnes).
Main exports were salmon (more than 100,000 tonnes), mackerel (more than 80,000 tonnes) and herring (more than 40,000 tonnes)
Also, the market prices for these types of fish are very different. 
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN02788/SN02788.pdf

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by tomacht8

[The Renegade]

59 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

But then the UK should start growing fruits, vegetables and coffee right away.
Looking forward to see how the UK farmers sting their asparagus for 20£ an hour.

That is because you struggle to understand English, a common affliction among remainers.

 

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

Most of the goods, that we currently import, should be getting manufactured and produced in the UK.

Goods and products, not farm produce.

 

Just to try and help you understand.

 

That would be GOODS, not FOODS.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

I have told you on many occasions, that you cannot understand it is your issue to deal with.

 

Tell me one Country, who is a Net Importer, that can be considered doing well for itself ?

 

Most of the goods, that we currently import, should be getting manufactured and produced in the UK.

 

Massive benefits including millions of employment opportunities.

The lack of knowledge behind this claim is massive. The world economy has grown hugely since WW2. By definition since exports = imports half of all international trade is imported. So by your thinking, how would the world economy have grown so much if imports were bad? By your reckoning, on balance it would have to be a wash. Next thing you know, you'll be telling us that frictionless supply chains don't matter and the UK can should manufacture most of what it imports.

And the EU on the whole is now a net exporter. Is its economy stronger than the USA's? Which pulled out of the Great Recession faster?

In fact, net imports or exports considered in isolation tell us little about the strength of an economy.

 

[CG1 Blue]

13 hours ago, tebee said:

The government's own estimate is that with an FTA set up 1.75 million UK jobs will be lost and with no deal 2.8 million jobs will go

When you say 'the government', did Theresa May back this up?

 

These numbers are engineered, using only negative impacts, ignoring any positive impacts, and assuming every worst case scenario. Numbers designed to scare the public into reversing the decision to leave the EU. It clearly works on some people...

 

 

 

 

[sandyf]

Yesterday in PMQ's the PM told JC several times that the government was already negotiating on the white paper with the EU.

 

“The white paper is not going to form the basis of the negotiations,” one senior EU diplomat told the Guardian. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/18/eu-assault-on-mays-white-paper-heightens-no-deal-brexit-fears

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

When you say 'the government', did Theresa May back this up?

 

These numbers are engineered, using only negative impacts, ignoring any positive impacts, and assuming every worst case scenario. Numbers designed to scare the public into reversing the decision to leave the EU. It clearly works on some people...

 

 

 

 

What are these positive impacts that can come close to outweighing the negative impacts? Renegade has been very coy about this  but I'm sure you wouldn't be so cruel as to go on teasing us.

[tomacht8]

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

That is because you struggle to understand English, a common affliction among remainers.

 

Goods and products, not farm produce.

 

Just to try and help you understand.

 

That would be GOODS, not FOODS.

In the teaching of economics worldwide, food is just as much a commodity as a pair of pants or a car
In all textbooks of micro and macroeconomics a distinction is generally made only between goods and services.
You apparently have not studied economics.

1. plural noun

Goods are things that are made to be sold.

Money can be exchanged for goods or services.

...a wide range of consumer goods.

 

2. (sometimes singular) economics

commodities that are tangible, usually movable, and generally not consumed at the same time as they are produced

Compare services

3. articles of commerce; merchandise

 

 

goods in Accounting

(gʊdz)

 

noun

(Accounting: Commerce)

Goods are things that are made to be sold.

Money can be exchanged for goods or services.

Britain's main trading partners have been trapped in low or no growth, unable to buy more goods and services.

Goods are things that are made to be sold.

 

[The Renegade]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Yesterday in PMQ's the PM told JC several times that the government was already negotiating on the white paper with the EU.

And she was correct.

 

Her lapdog Olly Robbins was in Brussels, discussing the .................White paper ??

[sandyf]

The outcome of brexit is already with us, only a warped mind would see any good in division and uncertainty, may take more than a generation for that to come good.

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

In the teaching of economics worldwide, food is just as much a commodity as a pair of pants or a car

All that studying worldwide economics did nothing to help your English Comprehension.

 

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

Most of the goods, that we currently import, should be getting manufactured and produced in the UK.

Do you see that key word '' Manufactured ''

[bristolboy]

29 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

All that studying worldwide economics did nothing to help your English Comprehension.

 

 

And all your lack of studying of economics has done you no favors. I can't believe that in the 21st century someone's take on economics could be so bereft as to indite this:

"Most of the goods, that we currently import, should be getting manufactured and produced in the UK."

Claiming it once could be written off as an "oops" moment. But to stand by something that economists in the 18th century knew to be nonsense is truly bizarre.

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by bristolboy

[tomacht8]

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

All that studying worldwide economics did nothing to help your English Comprehension.

 

Do you see that key word '' Manufactured ''

Yes my english is not good as yours, coz english is not my first language.
But what does this have to do with the knowledge of economic issues?
You can wind around your lack of knowledge in this field as you wish.
I have given you the definition of the term in the economic sense.
 

[sandyf]

There seems to be some confusion over the meaning of 'negotiating';  'picked apart' has not been in any definition I have seen but there is bound to be someone who can enlighten us.

 

Led by Michel Barnier’s deputy, Sabine Weyand, the EU’s team of officials picked apart the most contentious parts of the paper as it was presented by Olly Robbins, Theresa May’s chief Brexit adviser, leading to increased concerns on both sides that a no-deal scenario is moving from possible to likely.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/18/eu-assault-on-mays-white-paper-heightens-no-deal-brexit-fears

[sandyf]

Eight months to go and still no answer.

 

The prime minister also ducked a question about whether a no-deal Brexit would trigger a hard border in Ireland, saying: “There isn't a sort of simple answer to that.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-customs-chequers-plan-eu-staff-collect-duties-border-theresa-may-a8453301.html

[kwilco]

this is just ONE of thousands of conveniences the UK will lose after Brexit - that anyone could be so daft as to vote for this sort of thing is beyond me.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44881058?SThisFB

Edited July 19, 2018 by kwilco

[Jip99]

7 minutes ago, kwilco said:

this is just ONE of thousands of conveniences the UK will lose after Brexit - that anyone could be so daft as to vote for this sort of thing is beyond me.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44881058?SThisFB

 

 

 

We are well aware that Brexit is beyond you, but you don't need to keep announcing your shortcomings.

[kwilco]

37 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes my english is not good as yours, coz english is not my first language.
But what does this have to do with the knowledge of economic issues?
You can wind around your lack of knowledge in this field as you wish.
I have given you the definition of the term in the economic sense.
 

If you think the key word is "manufacture" UK has two options - manufacture as before to sell to Europe (which requires Britain to be in the EU) or sell to smaller disparate markets around the world that have isolationist and protectionist trade barriers.i.e. DUTIES!! -  No manufacturer in the UK could survive just on the home market without huge protectionism and massive price hikes.......there are of course those who think we could take over the world selling cuckoo clocks and whale blubber - but it is unlikely that a population of 65 million or so would be sustained by that.

What is already certain is that many manufacturers science finance innovators and other important sections of industry and commerce are set to contract or move. The motor industry who were to expand before Brexit and are now  set to contract or move out completely in some cases. Ironically it will be areas that voted out that will be hardest hit.

Manufacturing since (and due to) the Thatcher era has been a dwindling portion of the UK economy until in recent years trade with the EU and the ability for EU countries to set upon the uk increased the overall turnover to respectable levels.

Now thank to Brexit it will return to the crumbling state it was in the late seventies.

[kwilco]

8 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

We are well aware that Brexit is beyond you, but you don't need to keep announcing your shortcomings.

IDPs are not a shortcoming of my making - As with most Brexiteers do you confuse the messenger with there message - if you hadn't the country wouldn't have got in this mess in the first place.

 

...and it is noted you seem as ever be bereft of any counter argument .... perhaps you are still thinking that out?

Edited July 19, 2018 by kwilco