more bike porn

[KhaoYai]

On 11/26/2018 at 1:44 PM, Justgrazing said:

Not porn ..

The truly bloody awful XS500 .. What were Yamaha thinking ..

I had one of those too but from the demo fleet - not owned. Quite liked it for commuting actually + my then girlfriend completely changed her mind about bikes after missing her bus one morning.  She's previously been batted about on the back of my fizzy (yes, I actually passed my moped test) and swore she'd never go on anything bigger.  I gave her a lift on the XS and the trip in to work, on a more stable, comfortable and planted machine made her a regular passenger - much to my disgust, I don't like pillion passengers ????.

 

Keep it going - I'd forgotten most of these bikes 555.

[Neilly]

While I was hooning around on two strokes in my late teens and loving it, there was one four stoke bike that held a certain kind of reverence for me, and one that I thought I'd own one day...the legendary Kwak Z1 900...I never did own one, by the time I'd switched to four strokes things had moved on.

 

A friend of mine in UK has one, he did a complete nut & bolt strip down and rebuild. He did lend it to Beaulieu motor museum until he went down there one day and it had been left out unprotected from the crowds...he went home, got his van and it now sits in his living room most of the time.

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

Not too much input from me at the mo, sorry - busy in my shed (workshops)....

 

Quick replies;

On 11/26/2018 at 4:57 PM, Justgrazing said:

There you go Guzz' .. Advert for Guzzi's ( don't know if the SP was a good 'un or not , gotta rely on you're knowledge of 'em for that ) .. 

That BSA brochure is a piece of Art ..

All Guzzi big twins are a great base to build something special.

Most were downright ugly from the factory for a long period of time inc this period - late 70's - mid 90's.

But they all made a great base bike once you'd changed the aesthetics.

Yes, the Gold Star poster/artwork is nice.

On 11/26/2018 at 6:12 PM, Justgrazing said:

The dark side of Yamaha .. One of their V10 F1 engines .. Not longstroke .. 

Thanx, Had to google that.

Never new of their involvement in F1. Interesting.

On 11/27/2018 at 1:48 AM, Justgrazing said:

Engine components in the house mark of the true biker that Guzz' .. 

And the near finished bottle in the background ..

TY looks a ripper .. Haven't they been in production since early 70's that range ? do they still make 'em .? 

The first twinshocks came out in the early 70's -  80, 175 and 250cc, by far the most popular Jap trials bikes, and once suitably modified by certain firms, the MaJesty being the most common, became one of the best bikes for a clubman one could buy.

In 84 the ty250 mono came out which transformed trials bikes overnight and also made twinshocks obsolete overnight.

Still to this day, the most robust trials bike ever made. Pretty much indestructable. The best Clubman's bike for around 5 years till everyone else caught up, and overtook it.

They also made a 350 for the Oz and USA markets.

In 93 the tyz came out, watercooled, a fantastic motor which was also used as a proprietary engine in a couple of European manufacturers.

But the bike itself was never the best of its era, too heavy, too old fashioned steering, and never a big seller.

By 98-99 Yamaha got out of trials worldwide, but is still a popular modern brand in Japan, having cult like status among the Japanese trials fan base.

Here endeth today's Yamaha ty (trials Yamaha - geddit?) lesson.

I started a thread a couple of years ago about my acquisitions if you're interested in the m/c section entitled " a tale of two ty mono's - pic heavy" or something similar.

As they look now, with this years bodywork fitted;

 

 

19 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

Daytona winning Ducati " Old Blue

A lotta people think Ducati colours are Italian Racing Red. This has only been so since the mid to late 80's before the advent of the iconic 916.

In the 70's and before, Ducati often used and raced with the above colours and another silver combination of turquoise green. Very pretty colour scheme, very classic. If i buy a S/H 796 Monster (top of my want list - prices have tumbled) i would paint it in these colours.

15 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

Lovely little Parilla's and a road going Bultaco ..

Concur.

Again, some Bultaco road bikes used very pretty paint schemes.

They were'nt just motocross/enduro/trials kings, but that helped.....

The first Parilla has a gorgeous looking motor, thanx.

6 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

Another lost gem of the 70's .. Moto Guzzi 350/400 GTS .. And a damned good looking bike .. Engine has a bit of Honda look but internal dimensions are diff' by all accounts to any comparable H unit .. Guzzi and Benelli were in the same stable around about that time and Benny also made a 350/4 around about same time but the G is a better looker methinks ..

No.

Wash your mouth out with a bar of soap!

Completely disagree. 'kin hate the things.

Badge engineering exercise by the owner of Benelli/Guzzi at the time. Same bike, different badges.

Truly horrific. And virtually every Guzzisti on the planet will agree with me.

Leave it to the Benelli side of the garage with their love of multis from the 50's to the 70's, until they were left to go bust.

Horrible.
As you say, basically a 350/4 Honda with an Italian name.

 

Now off to the shed area ....

[thaiguzzi]

14 minutes ago, Neilly said:

While I was hooning around on two strokes in my late teens and loving it, there was one four stoke bike that held a certain kind of reverence for me, and one that I thought I'd own one day...the legendary Kwak Z1 900...I never did own one, by the time I'd switched to four strokes things had moved on.

Concur.

At the time everyone had two strokes and loved them, there was one 4 stroke that everyone loved and lusted after.

The King. The Z1. The Z900.

And still later, the Z1000, but by then others had caught up, especially Suzuki.

And, have you seen the prices original ones fetch these days?

15k and up is not uncommon for a minter.

[Neilly]

8 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

And still later, the Z1000, but by then others had caught up, especially Suzuki.

Same guy has a GS1000...it was in pretty good shape when he bought it and hasn't had to do much it

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

guess many motocross, offroad endurance and "terrain" bikes are still 2 stroke

 

but are 2 stroke bikes for street still being made?

 

[Justgrazing]

4 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

No.

Wash your mouth out with a bar of soap!

Completely disagree. 'kin hate the things.

Badge engineering exercise by the owner of Benelli/Guzzi at the time. Same bike, different badges.

Truly horrific. And virtually every Guzzisti on the planet will agree with me.

Leave it to the Benelli side of the garage with their love of multis from the 50's to the 70's, until they were left to go bust.

Horrible.
As you say, basically a 350/4 Honda with an Italian name.

 

Now off to the shed area ....

Hahahaha .. Thought I'd get some incoming for that .. True more a case of badge engineering alongside the Benelli but I think the G looks better es'pesh in the dark red ' n gold .. Point taken and not forgetting the 3 pot max' pref' here is :- 

[Justgrazing]

Lovely old 750 Laverda twin and 1000 Jota remembered more for its price maybe than it was the fastest bike you could buy for a short while in't 70's .. 

Dinky little Morini 350 .. 

[Justgrazing]

5 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Thanx, Had to google that.

Never new of their involvement in F1. Interesting.

And the satanic V12 outta their ill fated OX99 supercar from about 20 yrs ago .. If you haven't seen that don't rush its hideous .. 

[damascase]

Yamaha also built the 16-valve DOHC cylinderhead for Toyota’s 1.6 Corolla GT, somewhere in the eighties. A brother of mine owned one, the cylinderhead was clearly marked ‘Yamaha’.

[Justgrazing]

3 minutes ago, damascase said:

Yamaha also built the 4-valve DOHC cylinderhead for Toyota’s 1.6 Corolla GT, somewhere in the eighties. A brother of mine owned one, the cylinderhead was clearly marked ‘Yamaha’.

Indeed they did I've seen sim' on the Celica engines early 90's .. Yamaha also hand built the barking mad V10's that went in the Lexus L F A ( Lexus being part of Toyota ) in workshops that look more like a laboratory than a 'um workshop  .. They've akso built engines for Volvo and consulted for Audi .. 

[Justgrazing]

7 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Thanx, Had to google that.

Never new of their involvement in F1. Interesting.

Never quite understood why Yam' decided to get it on F1 other than maybe to steal some of Honda's kudo's as building a winning engine is possibly the highest peak to conquer in Motorsport .. They are on the cutting age of engine tech and usually the proving ground for technologies that turns up on road cars and next to drag engines are  probably the most extreme example of the I C engine that work on revs as in the last of the V10's towards mid 2000's were over a 1000 hp which is 335/40 bhp per litre normally aspirated ( latest Motogp bikes by comparison are still 50/60 odd horse's behind that per litre figure ) but at upto 18k revs so they used to blow up frequently .. As Yamaha found out .. Some of the top teams of the day would have a qualifying engine tuned for a bit more but with even less reliability then once qual'y was over the engine for the race would be fitted .. But for all of that torquey they were not which is why they used to be fitted with anti stall gubbins to stop the driver stalling if they dipped below 7000 rpm .. Did it all work ? The fastest lap with the highest average speed ever in F1 was set with one of the V10's early 2000's only broken earlier this year by the latest turbo hybrid jobs .. 

Piston and rod of a Honda F1 engine gives a clue that low down slugger it is not .. 

( I'm not gonna put it up as it ain't strictly bike but for any guys interested noogle Honda RA300 which was their V12 F1 car of the 60's and its arse about face engine layout of the exhausts exiting out the Vee as opposed to beneath the heads which is conventional wisdom of Vee configurations ) .. 

 

[Justgrazing]

10 hours ago, Neilly said:

While I was hooning around on two strokes in my late teens and loving it, there was one four stoke bike that held a certain kind of reverence for me, and one that I thought I'd own one day...the legendary Kwak Z1 900...I never did own one, by the time I'd switched to four strokes things had moved on.

Brochure of '76 .. The one on the right looks abit like a Z750 twin which was not a big seller from what I remember .. But that is a nice shot of 'em .. 

[kickstart]

An off roadster, CCM, Clews Competition Motorcycle, this one is the 600cc, early ones where 500cc based on the BSA B50, then modified by Alen Clews, not certain if this one had a 4 valve head, produced enough torque to ride up the side of a house.

I use to do some Motorcross marshaling, they where a few CCM's, in the days of 2-strokes you normale heard these CCM's before you saw them.

 

[kickstart]

34 minutes ago, Justgrazing said:

Brochure of '76 .. The one on the right looks abit like a Z750 twin which was not a big seller from what I remember .. But that is a nice shot of 'em .. 

They was the  KZ400, a cheap ride to work bike, not the best of engines with drum brakes, like the 750, not a big seller.

If? I remember right advertised with a  750, as its smaller brother, or something that.

[thaiguzzi]

10 hours ago, Neilly said:

Same guy has a GS1000.

I'm getting old.

I always thought the GS thou was shaft drive?

6 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

Lovely old 750 Laverda twin and 1000 Jota remembered more for its price maybe than it was the fastest bike you could buy for a short while in't 70's .. 

Dinky little Morini 350 .. 

The Laverda 750 twin was a very fast and extremely reliable, bullet proof motorcycle. That and the 500 Montjuic, were regularly used in endurance class racing. But they never sold in the numbers the triples did, i just love Jotas and any of the Laverda 1000/1200 triples. Just beautiful, powerful motors.

Always wanted one.

Did you know they ran primary chains in a primary chaincase just like Brit bikes & Harleys?

 

The Moto Morini 350's & 500's have been cult bikes since they were made. Combustion chamber is a Heron design ie in the piston crown. Pushrod OHV motors, super reliable, 100k miles before a rebuild not uncommon.

In fact, lets be honest, pretty much everything made in Italy has always been sex.

Except Lambrettas.

And Vespas...

[Justgrazing]

16 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

the 70's and before, Ducati often used and raced with the above colours and another silver combination of turquoise green. Very pretty colour scheme, very classic. If i buy a S/H 796 Monster (top of my want list - prices have tumbled) i would paint it in these colours.

Same as ? .. Found this scouting about and thought mmm that is a nice bike and the colour scheme does set it off .. 2nd photo look at the coning at the end of the silencer .. Class that .. 

[Justgrazing]

Not as well known as the Aitch 6 cyl racers the MV 500 6 was about in late 50's so did it all before the Honda's ..

3rd pic' is the early 60's 350/6 .. 

500/3 as caned by Ago and the bottom 2 the 350/3 .. Is there a purer looking racing bike than that .. 

[Justgrazing]

6 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Did you know they ran primary chains in a primary chaincase just like Brit bikes & Harleys?

Didn't actually but I've always wondered on the rare occasion I ever saw one if that is was it was ..

 

6 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

The Moto Morini 350's & 500's have been cult bikes since they were made. Combustion chamber is a Heron design ie in the piston crown. Pushrod OHV motors, super reliable, 100k miles before a rebuild not uncommon

Again never used to see too many of the little Morini's but I know they do have a bit of a cult status now and are quite sought after .. Yes one of the advantages of the Heron head was the valve centre line could stay in line with the bore which then simplified the valve train where as heads that hold the combustion chamber particularly in 4 valve config' need the valve centre line at an angle to the bore to allow the cam gear to work which then complicates the valve train .. The early Jaguar V12 was such a Heron , the head is flat ( apart from very slight protrusion of the valves when fitted ) with the chamber formed in the top of the piston which allows them to run up to 13/14 to 1 cr ( tuned to the max you need one hell of a starter to spin these over ) over the '81 on H E version with new cylinder heads that incorporated the chamber into the head with a weird swirl pocket in an attempt to improve the dire fuel consumption of the early versions ..  very little can be done with the later versions in way of extracting big power which is why tuners and specialists only want the early engine .. 

[Neilly]

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 6:29 AM, thaiguzzi said:

I am from that school of thought, more than 2, and on special occasions 3 (MV, BSA & Triumph) cylinders is a complete waste of the internal combustion process

The BSA Rocket 3 that turned into the Triumph X-75 then? These were slightly before my 'time', but I did like the look of them (and still do)

 

Good article on it's history here...

 

https://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-british-motorcycles/1973-triumph-hurricane-x75

 

 

[DILLIGAD]

The BSA Rocket 3 that turned into the Triumph X-75 then? These were slightly before my 'time', but I did like the look of them (and still do)
 
Good article on it's history here...
 
https://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-british-motorcycles/1973-triumph-hurricane-x75
 
 

Met Craig at a big (maybe the biggest) congregation of Hurricanes in UK, way back when. My next door neighbor had a new(unused) one that he was restoring.
I’ve always had a soft spot for them too!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Justgrazing]

Remember these in't 70's if you wanted not a Japanese 250 .. Ain't sure 100% but weren't they pre-mix having no oil injection like the Jap boys .. Always liked the colour blue they came in ..

[Justgrazing]

Are these Guzzi lumps real or mock ups .. I can get the 4 cyl one though that right hand rear pot will run a bit hotter methinks .. but the W3 layout I can only figure a firing order of both the outside cylinders firing before the centre one lest any of you guys got the inside track on it ..  

[damascase]

13 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

Same as ? .. Found this scouting about and thought mmm that is a nice bike and the colour scheme does set it off .. 2nd photo look at the coning at the end of the silencer .. Class that .. 

Way back, in ‘68, I roadraced a 250 Ducati in a similar green, with the tank etc. painted a cream color. Only have B&W pictures of it, though.........

[Neilly]

45 minutes ago, Justgrazing said:

Are these Guzzi lumps real or mock ups ..

Quote

This arrow configuration engine was designed in 1981-1982 by Lino Tonti. It displaces 992cc, with 3 cylinders set at 65 degrees. Valves were push rod operated from 2 cams in the block by the central cylinder. It was equipped with three 30mm Del'Ortos. The factory identifier was W103.

What you see in the photo was as far as development went, which is really too bad, it would have been interesting to see this mounted in a running prototype motorcycle of some sort.

https://thekneeslider.com/moto-guzzi-arrow-w103-3-cylinder-v-triple/

[Justgrazing]

4 hours ago, Neilly said:

https://thekneeslider.com/moto-guzzi-arrow-w103-3-cylinder-v-triple/

Thanks for that .. Unfortunately it didn't give the firing order or crank spec' but as the cyl's dont look staggered and if it uses a master con-rod with 2 link rods on just one big-end ( inclined to think if it has that set up the centre cyl has the master rod with the link rod's to either side pot ) I've got L1 R3 C2 as that would give ( L1 tdc and ready to fire ) 0 - 130 - 295 - 295 degree's of crank rotation and would give the most even spread of power .. But if its got more than one big end then I dunno .. His Guzz'ness will have an idea I'm sure when he's done in the shed .. 

[Justgrazing]

Guzzi's .. A wide angle bevel drive Vee twin and 500/4 supercharged racers .. Just love that triangulated cooler and the exposed valve springs ..  

And a lovely Le Mans ..

Gilera 4 banger DOHC from the 50's ..

I'd never had much to do with classic Italian afore but some of the stuff they've done down the year's is quite radical in fact some of the stuff early doors is cutting edge and done long before Japan .. 

 

[thaiguzzi]

40 minutes ago, Justgrazing said:

Thanks for that .. Unfortunately it didn't give the firing order or crank spec' but as the cyl's dont look staggered and if it uses a master con-rod with 2 link rods on just one big-end ( inclined to think if it has that set up the centre cyl has the master rod with the link rod's to either side pot ) I've got L1 R3 C2 as that would give ( L1 tdc and ready to fire ) 0 - 130 - 295 - 295 degree's of crank rotation and would give the most even spread of power .. But if its got more than one big end then I dunno .. His Guzz'ness will have an idea I'm sure when he's done in the shed .. 

That motor is in one of my books. Never ran. Not seen inside it, nor are there any details, but i presume it will be a single b/end and all rods spin on the same journal. They did a lot of experimentation in slack times. Basically clever blokes in a big man cave.

Back in Moto Guzzi's heyday, by the late 50's they had tried virtually every configeration know to mankind, again, very clever blokes, draughtsmen, engineers and machine tools.

They had 90 degree v twins fore and aft, way before Ducati were even making 4 strokes, let alone their "L twins". They had a 120 degree v twin which won grand prix.

Their lay down singles with an external flywheel (bacon slicer) were pretty much better than any other road going single made, fast and extremely robust.

Re W3 motors, an American company called Feuling actually built and ran a 3 cylinder HD big twin. Successfully.

19 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

Same as ? ..

For my future M796?

no i meant the dark blue and silver.

But yeah that colour scheme i meant on their earlier racers, like Paul Smart's etc.

 

Here's what i meant, removable painted panels & guards etc, sold as Monster Art Logo Kits.

Fitted 695, 796 &1100s. There are some classics in there, but the one i'm on about is 2nd from the right. With the classis Ducati Meccanica badge.

 

Edit, our posts crossed. Your 1st pic is the 120 degree v twin racer i was on about.

Yeah, Italian stuff post war was magical.

 

 

 

[Justgrazing]

500 supercharged 4 banger Bianchi .. How far ahead was this for 1939 .. 

[canthai55]

^^^^^

Off topic, but speaking of supercharged ...

Merlin had over 11,000 parts prior to fitting the blower behind the engine.