UK demands Russia explain nerve attack after two more people struck down

[webfact]

UK demands Russia explain nerve attack after two more people struck down

By Alex Fraser and Henry Nicholls

 

A police officer stands in front of screening erected behind John Baker House as forensic tents are erected, after it was confirmed that two people had been poisoned with the nerve-agent Novichok, in Amesbury, Britain, July 5, 2018. REUTERS/Henry Nicholls

 

AMESBURY, England (Reuters) - Britain demanded on Thursday that Russia provide details about the Novichok nerve agent attack on a former double agent and his daughter after two British citizens were struck down with the same poison.

 

The two Britons, a 44-year-old woman and a 45-year-old man, fell critically ill after handling what police called a contaminated item near the site of the March attack on Sergei and Yulia Skripal.

 

Britain has accused Russia of poisoning the Skripals with Novichok - a nerve agent developed by the Soviet military during the Cold War - in what is the first known offensive use of such a chemical weapon on European soil since World War Two.

 

Russia, which is currently hosting the soccer World Cup, has denied any involvement in the March incident and suggested the British security services had carried out that attack to stoke anti-Moscow hysteria.

 

"The eyes of the world are currently on Russia, not least because of the World Cup," British Home Secretary Sajid Javid said. "It is now time that the Russian state comes forward and explains what has gone on.

 

"It is completely unacceptable for our people to be either deliberate or accidental targets, or for our streets, our parks and towns to be dumping grounds for poison," he told parliament.

 

The Kremlin said Russia had offered Britain its assistance in investigating the nerve agent attack and had been rebuffed.

 

Prime Minister Theresa May, speaking alongside Chancellor Angela Merkel during a visit to Berlin, said it was "deeply disturbing" that two more people had been exposed to Novichok, adding that her thoughts were with the people of the area.

 

MYSTERY

The two Britons taken ill on Saturday were initially thought to have taken an overdose of heroin or crack cocaine.

 

But tests by the Porton Down military research centre showed they had been exposed to Novichok. Britain has notified the global chemical weapons watchdog, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW).

 

London police later said in a statement: "... we now know that they were exposed to the nerve agent after handling a contaminated item." They did not elaborate.

 

Police have said the Skripals were poisoned after Novichok was applied in a liquid form to the front door of Sergei Skripal's home in the city of Salisbury, 11 km (7 miles) south of Amesbury where the current incident occurred.

 

Skripal - a former colonel in Russian military intelligence who betrayed dozens of agents to Britain's MI6 foreign spy service - and his daughter were found slumped unconscious on a park bench on March 4.

 

The latest pair however have nothing in their background to suggest a link to the world of espionage or to Russia.

 

"It is unbelievable that I am here to talk about another Novichok nerve agent incident in our county," local police chief Keir Pritchard told reporters. "We're working extremely hard to try to understand the circumstances, the chronology."

 

Interior minister Javid said the substance that the two people were exposed to was the same variant of Novichok that struck down the Skripals.

 

However, officials said the working hypothesis was that the latest pair had been contaminated in a different location from areas visited by the former Russian agent and his daughter.

 

"The possibility that these two investigations might be linked is clearly a line of enquiry ... but it is very important that we keep an open mind," said Pritchard, adding that it was not yet clear whether the Novichok came from the same batch.

 

Paramedics were called on Saturday morning to a house in Amesbury after the woman, named by media as Dawn Sturgess, collapsed. They returned later in the day when the man, Charlie Rowley, also fell ill.

 

CONTAMINATION

Health chiefs said the risk to the public was low, repeating their earlier advice that the public should wash their clothes and use cleansing wipes on personal items.

 

But the exposure of two British citizens to such a dangerous nerve agent will stoke fears that Novichok could be lingering at sites around the ancient English city of Salisbury.

 

Andrea Sella, professor of inorganic chemistry at University College London, said Novichok nerve agents were designed to be quite persistent and did not decompose quickly.

 

"That means that if a container or a surface was contaminated with this material it would remain a danger for a long time," Sella said.

 

After the Skripal poisoning, police investigators in protective suits scoured Salisbury. They may return, police said.

 

The March attack prompted the biggest Western expulsion of Russian diplomats since the Cold War as allies sided with May's view that Moscow was either responsible or had lost control of the nerve agent.

 

Moscow hit back by expelling Western diplomats, questioning how Britain could know that Russia was responsible and offering rival interpretations, including that it amounted to a plot by British secret services.

 

(Additional reporting by Sarah Young, Kate Holton, Elizabeth Piper, William James and Kate Kelland in London, Andrew Osborn and Polina Nikolskaya in Moscow; Writing by Guy Faulconbridge and Michael Holden; editing by Gareth Jones and David Stamp)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-07-06

[blazes]

It's so easy to chant "Russia" and thus stifle all conversation. 

 

It is equally possible that some group of terrorists or even a teenage gang have got hold of a small dose of this chemical weapon and are laughing themselves silly over the public panic.

 

Needless to say, the police dare not allow rumours of such  possibilities to see the light of day. 

So, it was the Russians: case closed.

[BestB]

So now it’s native brits, just happens to be roughly in the same area and so happens that US/RU summit is a week away.

 

?

[Orac]

Good job Porton Down is close by, about midway between the two incidents which are only 7 miles apart according to thd OP - at least they can be on the scene quickly.

[Becker]

22 minutes ago, blazes said:

It's so easy to chant "Russia" and thus stifle all conversation. 

 

It is equally possible that some group of terrorists or even a teenage gang have got hold of a small dose of this chemical weapon and are laughing themselves silly over the public panic.

 

Needless to say, the police dare not allow rumours of such  possibilities to see the light of day. 

So, it was the Russians: case closed.

Is it "equally possible" that terrorist or kids got hold of this stuff and attacked strangers with it and even having the knowledge to do so without killing themselves???

[meechai]

Has UK never heard the term "False Flag"?

[IAMHERE]

Russia has some plenty smart people, vastly outnumbered by dumb people.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[JAG]

44 minutes ago, meechai said:

Has UK never heard the term "False Flag"?

I, like many other Britons, regard the current government as an appalling shambles, riven with various personality claques and seemingly so incompetent that they are unable to manage the simplest task vaguely satisfactorily.

 

That view is only tempered by the awful realisation that the only alternative would probably be as bad if not worse.

 

However, despite setting the standard for cynical venal incompetence, I simply do not believe they would launch a persistent nerve agent attack on their own people to distract attention from their troubles.

[dick dasterdly]

33 minutes ago, JAG said:

I, like many other Britons, regard the current government as an appalling shambles, riven with various personality claques and seemingly so incompetent that they are unable to manage the simplest task vaguely satisfactorily.

 

That view is only tempered by the awful realisation that the only alternative would probably be as bad if not worse.

 

However, despite setting the standard for cynical venal incompetence, I simply do not believe they would launch a persistent nerve agent attack on their own people to distract attention from their troubles.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the brit. govt. is responsible for the poisonings that have occurred!  Rather that they are using what has happened as distraction tactics?

 

The problem is (IMO) that whilst we were initially prepared to believe that the Russians had poisoned their traitor - the theory started to fall apart for the reasons mentioned by another poster on a different thread.

 

1) Various countries have developed the most horrendous nerve agents - so how has everyone managed to survive?

 

2) Blame throwing with no evidence was (sort of) understandable in the first instance - but not in this second incident.

 

As others have said, it smells increasingly 'fishy',  particularly bearing in mind this latest headline ' - uk-demands-russia-explain-nerve-attack-after-two-more-people-struck-down' - despite the lack of evidence in the first instance, let alone this latest poisoning!

Edited July 6, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[maximillian]

Sure something like this would happen during the WorldCup. More to come before the final ?

[JingerBen]

42 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the brit. govt. is responsible for the poisonings that have occurred!  Rather that they are using what has happened as distraction tactics?

 

The problem is (IMO) that whilst we were initially prepared to believe that the Russians had poisoned their traitor - the theory started to fall apart for the reasons mentioned by another poster on a different thread.

 

1) Various countries have developed the most horrendous nerve agents - so how has everyone managed to survive?

 

2) Blame throwing with no evidence was (sort of) understandable in the first instance - but not in this second incident.

 

As others have said, it smells increasingly 'fishy',  particularly bearing in mind this latest headline ' - uk-demands-russia-explain-nerve-attack-after-two-more-people-struck-down' - despite the lack of evidence in the first instance, let alone this latest poisoning!

Good post.

The rush to judgement does indeed smell fishy.

[Kasset Tak]

Just a thought... why would Russia use a nerve-agent/poison that is known to have been developed by Russia and only have been used by Russia when they know that it would spark political  problems with the rest of the world. I mean Putin is not and idiot like the man put in charge of the White house!!!

[Mickmouse1]

The Government together with the security services are responsible not the Russians. If the Russian did the first job then it is impossible for them to do the same again.They are not that stupid.

Incompetent UK security can only blame the Russians???

[Media1]

Russia is very very bad

[Media1]

35 minutes ago, Kasset Tak said:

Just a thought... why would Russia use a nerve-agent/poison that is known to have been developed by Russia and only have been used by Russia when they know that it would spark political  problems with the rest of the world. I mean Putin is not and idiot like the man put in charge of the White house!!!

LOL Putin is a mad man

[JetSetFvr]

What evidence do you actually HAVE that proves it was Russia that actually did the act?  Just because it's of Russia grade doesn't mean that a Russia did it.  Look deeper than what is going on in the world as it isn't always what it seems.  NO Russian Collusion with Trump for example.  The left wants to destroy Russia at all costs. 

[dick dasterdly]

47 minutes ago, Media1 said:

Russia is very very bad

Quite.

 

Which is precisely why the brit. govt. (and media) rely on this most times they need an excuse....

Edited July 6, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[BestB]

2 hours ago, JetSetFvr said:

What evidence do you actually HAVE that proves it was Russia that actually did the act?  Just because it's of Russia grade doesn't mean that a Russia did it.  Look deeper than what is going on in the world as it isn't always what it seems.  NO Russian Collusion with Trump for example.  The left wants to destroy Russia at all costs. 

It’s not even of Russian grade but of Russian invention .

 

If it was Russian grade, all would have been dead not cured as it’s 100% kill rate.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Kasset Tak said:

Just a thought... why would Russia use a nerve-agent/poison that is known to have been developed by Russia and only have been used by Russia when they know that it would spark political  problems with the rest of the world. I mean Putin is not and idiot like the man put in charge of the White house!!!

 

Because Putin doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks of him or Russia, and many experts believe, the original attack was intended not only to get the victims, but also to send a clear message to other Russian expat dissidents that we can get you no matter where you may be living.  That IS the kind of message Putin would want to send.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, JetSetFvr said:

  NO Russian Collusion with Trump for example.  The left wants to destroy Russia at all costs. 

 

Funny comment, considering that historically, leftists and liberals were often called communists and considered by conservatives to be in league with communist nations, whereas it was the conservatives and Republicans who rightly considered the former Soviet Union and the current Russia a threat to western democracies.

 

So now, in your humble opinion, the left that used to be considered in league with the communists is now out to destroy Russia??? My my, we certainly live in a topsy-turvy world.

 

Frankly, I don't care whether anyone then or now considers themselves liberals or conservatives. But they are both right in considering the current Russia under Putin to be a threat to western democracies and to world order and stability.

 

Putin is a dictator who's killed and imprisoned his domestic opponents, retained power thru a fake election in which his main opponent was outlawed, tried to covertly and illegally sway the U.S. presidential election (and succeeded in doing so), has invaded and fomented unrest designed to undermine neighboring regions, has been judged responsible for foreign assassinations, and that's just the lowlights.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[BestB]

56 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Because Putin doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks of him or Russia, and many experts believe, the original attack was intended not only to get the victims, but also to send a clear message to other Russian expat dissidents that we can get you no matter where you may be living.  That IS the kind of message Putin would want to send.

 

You do realize Putin is not a God and is not responsible for anything and everything that happens , right?

 

Russia just like US and UK has its secret service , intelligence agencies and so on.

 

just like US and UK these agencies do not report to Putin on daily basis and do run their own ops.

[BestB]

56 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Because Putin doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks of him or Russia, and many experts believe, the original attack was intended not only to get the victims, but also to send a clear message to other Russian expat dissidents that we can get you no matter where you may be living.  That IS the kind of message Putin would want to send.

 

You do realize Putin is not a God and is not responsible for anything and everything that happens , right?

 

Russia just like US and UK has its secret service , intelligence agencies and so on.

 

just like US and UK these agencies do not report to Putin on daily basis and do run their own ops.

[Becker]

4 minutes ago, BestB said:

You do realize Putin is not a God and is not responsible for anything and everything that happens , right?

 

Russia just like US and UK has its secret service , intelligence agencies and so on.

 

just like US and UK these agencies do not report to Putin on daily basis and do run their own ops.

You're very persistent in your defence of Putin. Are you paid for this service?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, BestB said:

You do realize Putin is not a God and is not responsible for anything and everything that happens , right?

 

Russia just like US and UK has its secret service , intelligence agencies and so on.

 

just like US and UK these agencies do not report to Putin on daily basis and do run their own ops.

 

They assassinate Russian expats on foreign soil using radiation poisoning or nerve agents without central government consent? Really.....

 

And, separately since you seem to want to compare the U.S. and Russia, when was the last time the U.S. government was accused of assassinating one of its own citizens anywhere?  When was the last time a U.S. presidential candidate was jailed or prosecuted by the incumbent president?

 

Quote

After Litvinenko's death, his widow, Marina, pursued a vigorous campaign on behalf of her husband through the Litvinenko Justice Foundation. In October 2011, she won the right for an inquest into her husband's death to be conducted by a coroner in London; the inquest was repeatedly set back by issues relating to examinable evidence.^[9] A public inquiry began on 27 January 2015,^[10] and concluded in January 2016 that Litvinenko's murder was an FSB operation, that was probably personally approved by Vladimir Putin.^[11]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko

 

 

[BestB]

8 minutes ago, Becker said:

You're very persistent in your defence of Putin. Are you paid for this service?

Yes by the hour 

[BestB]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

They assassinate Russian expats on foreign soil using radiation poisoning or nerve agents without central government consent? Really.....

 

And, separately since you seem to want to compare the U.S. and Russia, when was the last time the U.S. government was accused of assassinating one of its own citizens anywhere?  When was the last time a U.S. presidential candidate was jailed or prosecuted by the incumbent president?

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko

 

 

Actually nothing but a speculation with no proof . And wiki hardly a reliable source when can be edited by anyone 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, BestB said:

Actually nothing but a speculation with no proof . And wiki hardly a reliable source when can be edited by anyone 

 

As you well know, the inquest finding in the Litvinenko case was widely and publicly reported. I could cite a dozen different sources that would correctly, accurately report the exact same outcome. But, you already know that very well.

 

[Morch]

6 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the brit. govt. is responsible for the poisonings that have occurred!  Rather that they are using what has happened as distraction tactics?

 

The problem is (IMO) that whilst we were initially prepared to believe that the Russians had poisoned their traitor - the theory started to fall apart for the reasons mentioned by another poster on a different thread.

 

1) Various countries have developed the most horrendous nerve agents - so how has everyone managed to survive?

 

2) Blame throwing with no evidence was (sort of) understandable in the first instance - but not in this second incident.

 

As others have said, it smells increasingly 'fishy',  particularly bearing in mind this latest headline ' - uk-demands-russia-explain-nerve-attack-after-two-more-people-struck-down' - despite the lack of evidence in the first instance, let alone this latest poisoning!

 

There are actually those suggesting that the UK/US are responsible, even on this forum. Doubt you managed to miss all such comments. As for the suggestion about "distraction" tactics? Distract from what? Or rather, how was this supposedly intended to work out? The UK government claiming Russia carried out an execution on its turf, doesn't exactly  broadcast being either competent or in command of things.

 

That you (and others) claim the "theory started to fall apart" doesn't actually make it so. Basically, its the same rehash of previous, debunked nonsense comments. Nothing new there. There's no explanation of how these apply - it is simply asserted that this is the case.

 

There wasn't "lack of evidence" in the first case. There was actually quite a bit of it, if not to the specifications and demands of certain posters. 

 

 

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Kasset Tak said:

Just a thought... why would Russia use a nerve-agent/poison that is known to have been developed by Russia and only have been used by Russia when they know that it would spark political  problems with the rest of the world. I mean Putin is not and idiot like the man put in charge of the White house!!!

 

Here are two explanations, both appearing on this topic:

 

One, Putin is not a god. Hence, he (or his underlings) sometimes miscalculates or makes mistakes.

 

Two, Putin feels confident enough to carry out such attacks and send such messages, as the expected response doesn't outweigh the perceived gains.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, JetSetFvr said:

What evidence do you actually HAVE that proves it was Russia that actually did the act?  Just because it's of Russia grade doesn't mean that a Russia did it.  Look deeper than what is going on in the world as it isn't always what it seems.  NO Russian Collusion with Trump for example.  The left wants to destroy Russia at all costs. 

 

Yawn.

 

Russia's not responsible for this.

Russia's not responsible for that.

All is not as it seems.

Look deeper.

 

Trump is good.

Left is bad.

 

Got to love "new" opinionated posters jumping into the fray....