Palestinians to keep paying prisoner stipend despite Israeli penalty

[webfact]

Palestinians to keep paying prisoner stipend despite Israeli penalty

 

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas gestures during his meeting with Britain's Prince William in Ramallah, in the occupied West Bank June 27, 2018. Alaa Badarneh/Pool via Reuters

 

RAMALLAH, West Bank (Reuters) - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said on Sunday his government would keep paying stipends to Palestinians jailed by Israel, their families, and the families of those killed by Israeli forces despite a new Israeli law to penalise the policy.

 

Israel has repeatedly demanded that the Palestinians, who view prisoners as national heroes, stop paying stipends to them and their families, saying they are a reward and encouragement for the prisoners' actions against it. The Palestinians say they are welfare payments to support them and their families.

 

A week ago Israel enacted a law that orders holding back part of the roughly $130 million in tax revenues it collects on behalf of the Palestinians each month under interim peace agreements as a penalty.

 

"The money we pay to families of prisoners and martyrs, which Israel opposes, we will not allow anyone to intervene with it," said Abbas, whose Western-backed Palestinian Authority has limited self-rule in the occupied West Bank. "We will continue to pay for them."

 

"We are watching and are waiting and we will take the appropriate measures that suit our interest," Abbas said in comments published by the official Palestinian Wafa News Agency.

 

According to Palestinian officials, the payments to inmates serving longer sentences for more serious offences are larger than to others serving shorter sentences for lighter offences. Israel says this is an incentive to commit more severe attacks.

 

Palestinian officials say that some 6,500 Palestinians are currently being held in Israeli jails. Many of them were convicted of attacks or planning attacks against Israelis.

 

(Reporting by Ali Sawafta and Nidal al-Mughrabi; editing by David Evans)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-07-09

[hansnl]

Abbas c.s. know very well if he stops money going to prisoners & family his empire will collapse, no more baksheesh for his own coffers and those of his cronies.

[Berkshire]

I'm not a big fan of Israel and their tactics, but a Palestinian leader--or any Muslim for that matter--should never use the term "martyr."  That term has become highly toxic and offensive.

[IAMHERE]

Most all the money Palestine gets is provided by "Western" governments. Bottom line is EU and USA is paying this money for violence against Israel.

[Morch]

 

The payments mentioned in the OP involve several problematic issues.

 

A payoff (or insurance policy) for perpetrators of attacks may very well support (if not encourage) violence. Essentially, they minimize the element of consequence - perpetrators' actions carry less harmful implications to families. In some cases this is even provides an economic survival or upgrade.

 

Funds (especially originating from Western countries) are provided in the spirit of which may contradict such uses. The notion that there are no strings attached to donations and funds made available is not entirely correct. Other than there being uses funds cannot be used for (example, unsanctioned arms purchases), other instances of misuse (such as corruption) are rejected as well.

 

Morally, it may be legit providing for families of long term prisoners, or families left destitute if main provider either died or imprisoned. But when these funds are made available based more on the attack perpetrated rather than economic needs - maybe less acceptable. Same goes with the practice of glorifying attackers and attacks (especially when dealing with obvious terrorist attacks) - sounds like a disqualifying criteria right there.

 
As much as the issue is often painted as an ideological issue, it is basically a political one. The payments represent quite a leverage as far as Palestinians go, with officials able to cut, delay or withhold funds from families. On the other hand, plenty of photo ops and posturing opportunities. That's one of the reasons both factions have parallel systems distributing such funds. Expressing political support is often a (semi) requirement. A point raised in a recent conversation (and which I haven't gotten to checking) is whether it's possible to get dual payments.

 

And on the other hand.....

 

It is doubtful that Israel's move is legally acceptable as well. Unlike funds provided by donors, the funds withheld by Israel are directly related to tax and social security payments. Israel isn't about to withhold funds it voluntarily gives to the Palestinians, but funds it is obligated to pass over to them. To put it even more bluntly - these are essentially Palestinian funds, so even more dubious a move.

 

I think it would have made more  proper for Israel to apply sanctions directed at either relevant Palestinian ministries, organizations and their staff. Or perhaps, at those receiving such payments from the PA/Hamas. Then again, less political "winning" taking this path.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed.  

 

[Jingthing]

Here's an idea.

How about paying a stipend to families that are NOT involved in violence against Israel instead? Worth a try, no? 

[VillageIdiot]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Here's an idea.

How about paying a stipend to families that are NOT involved in violence against Israel instead? Worth a try, no? 

Here's another idea.

How about Israel living within their internationally recognized 1967 borders. That might reduce the level of violence. Worth a try, no?

[dexterm]

Here's another idea.
How about Israel ending it's 51 year old illegal occupation which most of those imprisoned and receiving stipends are legally resisting.

"Since 1967, Israel has arrested and jailed some 800,000 Palestinians (according to estimates from the Palestinians’ Ministry of Prisoners). According to Palestinian estimates, some 70 percent of Palestinian families have had one or more family members serve time in an Israeli prison, for actions against the occupation."

https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-goliath-the-victim-1.5379470

 

And many of those have been and still are in administrative detention...no charges, no trial, secret evidence. So much for the  only so called democracy in the Middle East. Currently...
"At the end of May 2018, 440 Palestinians - including 2 women and 3 minors - were held in administrative detention in Israel Prison Service (IPS) facilities."

https://www.btselem.org/administrative_detention/statistics

 

Now Israel wants to extend collective punishment to imprisoned resisters' families.

Edited July 10, 2018 by dexterm

[Morch]

2 hours ago, VillageIdiot said:

Here's another idea.

How about Israel living within their internationally recognized 1967 borders. That might reduce the level of violence. Worth a try, no?

 

Many of the cases related to this payments involve attacks which were carried out against Israeli civilians within the "1967" borders. And Palestinian (or Arab, depending on which time is referenced) violence was present way before 1967 anyway.

 

How about addressing the topic itself? How do these payments contribute anything to a peaceful resolution?

[VillageIdiot]

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Many of the cases related to this payments involve attacks which were carried out against Israeli civilians within the "1967" borders. And Palestinian (or Arab, depending on which time is referenced) violence was present way before 1967 anyway.

 

How about addressing the topic itself? How do these payments contribute anything to a peaceful resolution?

Whether or not these payments contribute to a peaceful solution is a moot point.

The root cause of the conflict is Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

The usual stock deflections. Can't address the topic itself, hence going on about the conflict in general.

 

As pointed out numerous times, your misleading assertions as to any form of violence being legitimate (so long as carried out by Palestinians) is bogus. The "right" to resist the Israeli occupation is not a free pass for terrorism, attacks on civilians or any of them actions which you either ignore or whitewash.

 

Topic isn't about administrative detentions, or about your misleading version of what "legal" resistance includes, or simplified slogan "solutions" for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

 

A short summary (and further sources) may by found here:

 

Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund

 

Some interesting commentary here:

 

An Israel 'Conspiracy Theory' That Proved True—but Also More Complicated

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/israel-palestine-terrorist-payment-new-york-times/559097/

 

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, VillageIdiot said:

Whether or not these payments contribute to a peaceful solution is a moot point.

The root cause of the conflict is Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land.

 

It is by no means a "moot point". No more so than other issues brought up on these topics. Reads more like a deflection, really.

 

As for your pronouncement on "root cause" - The Israeli-Palestinian conflict predates the 1967 occupation. Of course, in some posters' view the very existence of Israel itself is an "illegal occupation of Palestinian land", but that's not much of a helpful position with regard to conflict resolution.

 

So all in all, just another nothing post.

[VillageIdiot]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It is by no means a "moot point". No more so than other issues brought up on these topics. Reads more like a deflection, really.

 

As for your pronouncement on "root cause" - The Israeli-Palestinian conflict predates the 1967 occupation. Of course, in some posters' view the very existence of Israel itself is an "illegal occupation of Palestinian land", but that's not much of a helpful position with regard to conflict resolution.

 

So all in all, just another nothing post.

Certainly Israel has a right to exist within its 1967 borders - but nowhere else.

The relentless expansion and illegal occupation of the West Bank provoke violence and have made Israel an international disgrace.

Spin away. Over and out. 

 

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Many of the cases related to this payments involve attacks which were carried out against Israeli civilians within the "1967" borders. And Palestinian (or Arab, depending on which time is referenced) violence was present way before 1967 anyway.

 

How about addressing the topic itself? How do these payments contribute anything to a peaceful resolution?

>>How do these payments contribute anything to a peaceful resolution?
Reread the topic. Which part suggests that non payment of these stipends will lead to a peaceful resolution of the conflict?

 

What the topic does say is that Israel would prefer not to have resistance to its illegal occupation and will try any means possible including collective punishment to prevent such. It doesn't seem to make any difference to Israel whether that resistance is passive or violent.They still shoot and imprison resisters, whether they are peaceful or not.

If it's a peaceful end to the conflict you're after, I would say continued resistance is a reminder to Israel and to the world that the Israeli occupation is illegal.

 

If Israel ends its illegal occupation, there will be no need for resistance to it. The Palestinian  population of Israeli prisons would drop dramatically and there would be no need for stipends. There..sorted!

 

I support the payment of the stipends to the resisters. I am sure members of Israel's armed wing that violently enforces the illegal occupation receive pensions too.

Edited July 10, 2018 by dexterm

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, VillageIdiot said:

Certainly Israel has a right to exist within its 1967 borders - but nowhere else.

The relentless expansion and illegal occupation of the West Bank provoke violence and have made Israel an international disgrace.

Spin away. Over and out. 

 

 

You asserted the "root cause" of the conflict is the Israeli occupation. In fact, the conflict predates the occupation. Not really expecting any coherent explanation on that one. But do go on about spins.

 

As for "international disgrace" - not that it's on-topic much (but then that goes for the rest of your comments), but to point out reality - this is mostly an opinion, not fact.

 

You have nothing of substance to contribute to this topic. Over and out is about the best you can manage.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Morch

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

More of your word twisting games. Doubt there was a whole lot asserted as to stopping these payments will lead to a peaceful resolution of the conflict. The comments were more to the effect that making these payments may contribute to ongoing violence. Not quite the same as your nonsense version.

 

The topic doesn't actually say what you claim with regard to Israel's position. Rather, this is one of your creative interpretations. Going on and on about Israel is all very fine, but the topic is actually about them payments.

 

Resistance to occupation is not a free-pass to any sort of violence whatsoever, other than in your extreme view. Even if your simplistic slogans were relevant, the assertions made are incorrect - it is not that all Palestinians fully accept a peaceful compromise based on the 1967 lines. Once more, not what the topic is about.

 

If you support them payments without any qualifying remarks, then you essentially, justify and support any form of Palestinian violence. Among recipients are those who carried attacks against civilians within Israel's borders.

 

Your rubbish comments about IDF ("armed wing"? Really?) pensions is not even clueless, as this was addressed and debunked in detail on previous topics. There isn't quite an equivalent payment such as you suggest.

 

 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, VillageIdiot said:

Here's another idea.

How about Israel living within their internationally recognized 1967 borders. That might reduce the level of violence. Worth a try, no?

Do you always answer a question with another question?