Thai boys await resumption of rescue mission after first four freed from cave

[chrisinth]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Prayut said he could not be directly involved in the rescue operation because the mission chief had to make the decisions after consulting all parties, including the boys’ families and foreign experts.

In my vivid imagination I see K. Narongsak calling him a shepherd and telling him to get the (his) flock away from operations. He can bask in the glory when it is all over.

 

I know, I know, wishful thinking.....................

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Prayut can only say ‘rescue as soon as possible’

By The Nation

 

 

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha said on Monday the eight footballers and their coach remaining in the Chiang Rai cave would be evacuated “as soon as possible”.

 

“Don’t ask in how many days or months they’ll be evacuated,” he told the press. “But we will do it as soon as possible, in the safest way.

 

“Nobody can tell how much time will be needed for the rescue mission.”

 

Prayut said he could not be directly involved in the rescue operation because the mission chief had to make the decisions after consulting all parties, including the boys’ families and foreign experts.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30349636

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-07-09

Wow! and foreign experts-- now that's something different. 

[Sheryl]

@yayqe 9m9 minutes ago

two more ambulances have driven by in the last hour. still waiting for any official information on today’s progress.

[ginjag]

EMERGENCY   evacuation because of drastic oxygen levels falling,   This morning I could not believe my eyes when it stated that they had a lack of full tanks of oxygen so it delayed the rest of the rescue.    May I ask who is the organiser of ordering enough full oxygen tanks ???     They should have been in place with more than  enough needed a week ago.  Now no news today yet.  WHY ???     have the kids oxygen enough in the cave   ??

[Toshiba66]

So many different threads running on the same thing. Hard to keep up with the latest info.

[Sheryl]

From journalists at the scene:

 

@danielsutton10 31 minutes ago  BREAKING: Divers have now entered the cave for the second day. Making their way towards remaining 8 trapped boys and coach

@jamesmassola 1m1 minute ago I have confirmed this too - rescue operation at #thamluang #thaicaverescue started just after 10am today. Plan is the same as yesterday, to bring out four boys.

[Sheryl]

Just now, Toshiba66 said:

So many different threads running on the same thing. Hard to keep up with the latest info.

We have locked several now. This here is the main discussion thread.

[Mitker]

1 minute ago, ginjag said:

EMERGENCY   evacuation because of drastic oxygen levels falling,   This morning I could not believe my eyes when it stated that they had a lack of full tanks of oxygen so it delayed the rest of the rescue.    May I ask who is the organiser of ordering enough full oxygen tanks ???     They should have been in place with more than  enough needed a week ago.  Now no news today yet.  WHY ???     have the kids oxygen enough in the cave   ??

do you have a link to the source of this info?

[tifino]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

We have locked several now. This here is the main discussion thread.

Can 'this' be Pinned?

 

Ta!

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

From journalists at the scene:

 

@danielsutton10 31 minutes ago  BREAKING: Divers have now entered the cave for the second day. Making their way towards remaining 8 trapped boys and coach

@jamesmassola 1m1 minute ago I have confirmed this too - rescue operation at #thamluang #thaicaverescue started just after 10am today. Plan is the same as yesterday, to bring out four boys.

Good stuff, I could not understand if it is total darkness inside why did they not enter overnight.....is there a lack of divers to cover shifts---also was  it the delay of full oxygen cylinders   ???

[ginjag]

2 minutes ago, Mitker said:

do you have a link to the source of this info?

Pattaya news this morning ---lack of oxygen cylinders-(full tank that is)

[Sheryl]

There is just one shift of divers that will extract the boys, carefully chosen for their expertise and also to ensure each boy has a Thai diver as well as foreign diver (comminucation, reassurrance).

So for that reason alone rest periods are necessary.

In addition there are preparations to be made -- cave conditions like water and oxygen levels to assess, tightness of the guide ropes, positioning of air tanks and other supplies etc.

There is also a need to carefully assess and plan each day's approach. There is pressure to move as quickly as is safely possible but the "safely" part means not rushing blindly in but taking time to assess and plan.

It's a tightrope. Too much haste or too little could both be disasterous. I think they are managing it well.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Mitker]

5 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Pattaya news this morning ---lack of oxygen cylinders-(full tank that is)

my understanding is that they were referring to the necessary time to place the new fresh air tanks along the path in the cave

[tebee]

A scuba air tank lasts about 1 hour.

 

The trip is 4 hours each way 

 

So each trip needs 4 tanks stashed at the right locations on the route.

 

each boy rescued need 5 trips - two divers in, 2 divers + the boy out.

 

so 20 tanks per trip.

 

so 4 boy out = 80 tanks used.

 

But remember, the divers placing the tanks at the storage locations also need tanks of air to get them there.

 

Not sure how many tanks each diver can carry through the caves, but I would suspect you will use 4-5 times that number just getting the tanks in place.

 

This is why I think we had the pause -  to replenish supplies. They are talking about the numbers of stored bottles ready to be used running out rather than the oxygen levels in the cave.   

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

There is just one shift of divers that will extract the boys, carefully chosen for their expertise and also to ensure each boy has a Thai diver as well as foreign diver (comminucation, reassurrance).

So for that reason alone rest periods are necessary.

In addition there are preparations to be made -- cave conditions like water and oxygen levels to assess, tightness of the guide ropes, positioning of air tanks and other supplies etc.

There is also a need to carefully assess and plan each day's approach. There is pressure to move as quickly as is safely possible but the "safely" part means not rushing blindly in but taking time to assess and plan.

It's a tightrope. Too much haste or too little could both be disasterous. I think they are managing it well.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Totally agree, BUT  how many expert divers ??   2 to each boy being evacuated.    only one shift available ??   so a lack of expert divers ??    and please can someone answer the lack of full oxygen cylinders for the divers to use.       Brilliant so far but questions asked regarding the above points help to get maximum effort from organisers in supplying everything needed.

[jerry921]

14 minutes ago, tifino said:

Can 'this' be Pinned?

 

Ta!

Hardly necessary, it's probably going to get bumped ten times a minute all day

[tifino]

1 minute ago, jerry921 said:

Hardly necessary, it's probably going to get bumped ten times a minute all day

yeah! like just now ?

[ginjag]

2 minutes ago, jerry921 said:

Hardly necessary, it's probably going to get bumped ten times a minute all day

My idea it would be too bulky to twist and turn at different points,  but brill if it could be used

[Laza 45]

3 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Totally agree, BUT  how many expert divers ??   2 to each boy being evacuated.    only one shift available ??   so a lack of expert divers ??    and please can someone answer the lack of full oxygen cylinders for the divers to use.       Brilliant so far but questions asked regarding the above points help to get maximum effort from organisers in supplying everything needed.

I don't have any idea of exactly how it works but there are divers stationed along the way as well to assist where needed.. how many?.. plus how many tanks for these divers as well?? However you cut it it is a hell of a lot of tanks! 

 

[jerry921]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

A scuba air tank lasts about 1 hour.

 

The trip is 4 hours each way 

 

So each trip needs 4 tanks stashed at the right locations on the route.

 

each boy rescued need 5 trips - two divers in, 2 divers + the boy out.

 

so 20 tanks per trip.

 

so 4 boy out = 80 tanks used.

 

But remember, the divers placing the tanks at the storage locations also need tanks of air to get them there.

 

Not sure how many tanks each diver can carry through the caves, but I would suspect you will use 4-5 times that number just getting the tanks in place.

 

This is why I think we had the pause -  to replenish supplies. They are talking about the numbers of stored bottles ready to be used running out rather than the oxygen levels in the cave.   

Except it isn't all under water. Yesterday they were saying (and it can change as the water rises) that the longest swim was 20 minutes.

 

They also said they were leaving an air tank every 25 meters. If that were every 25 meters for the whole 3 km it would be 120 tanks. But I suspect, again, that they were only referring to the underwater portions.

 

Still, your basic point is correct: because divers have to dive in the recharged tanks, and the divers are using air, it takes a lot of tanks (someone yesterday said "exponential", but really it's "geometric")

 

 

[greenchair]

Oh dear, doesn't seem to be much today. 

[ginjag]

1 minute ago, Laza 45 said:

I don't have any idea of exactly how it works but there are divers stationed along the way as well to assist where needed.. how many?.. plus how many tanks for these divers as well?? However you cut it it is a hell of a lot of tanks! 

 

Not criticising the job but really saying is you need as much and more supplies than necessary, also this applies to diving experts,     Biggest emergency problem is the boys oxygen level in their part of the cave, the more water the less air.

[tifino]

and all the combined groups of divers;

the rescuers, and the re-suppliers;

all make up a laterally thinking version of Operation Black Buck

[chrisinth]

3 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

I don't have any idea of exactly how it works but there are divers stationed along the way as well to assist where needed.. how many?.. plus how many tanks for these divers as well?? However you cut it it is a hell of a lot of tanks! 

 

They were quoting yesterday that a total of 90 divers were being used, 50 x ex-pats, 40 x Thai.

[Lampang2]

Apparently Elon Musk's SpaceX made a mini submarine to assist with the rescue of the boys.

Photo is from Associated Press but widely shared in other media.

Free marketing stunt.
Unrelated to this case.

[Artisi]

21 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Good stuff, I could not understand if it is total darkness inside why did they not enter overnight.....is there a lack of divers to cover shifts---also was  it the delay of full oxygen cylinders   ???

More likely logistics, used tanks needed replacing at the strategic locations. It's not a 4 lane highway in there and diving /tank replacements needs to be carefully coordinated. 

[Artisi]

1 minute ago, chrisinth said:

They were quoting yesterday that a total of 90 divers were being used, 50 x ex-pats, 40 x Thai.

Who was quoting, social media or the officials. 

[Brunolem]

19 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Pattaya news this morning ---lack of oxygen cylinders-(full tank that is)

This story about air/oxygen tanks needing more than 10 hours to be replaced is probably incomplete, because not really credible as it is presented, especially since there are only 2 passages left requiring to dive.

 

Maybe do they need to release air in some chambers because of a lack of oxygen (15% in the chamber where the children are waiting), and/or maybe do they want more tanks in order to complete the evacuation in only one shift, considering the rainfalls and the increased risks of flooding...just guessing...

 

[ginjag]

2 minutes ago, Artisi said:

More likely logistics, used tanks needed replacing at the strategic locations. It's not a 4 lane highway in there and diving /tank replacements needs to be carefully coordinated. 

BUT  loads of lay byes on route

[chrisinth]

1 minute ago, Artisi said:

Who was quoting, social media or the officials. 

That I believe was the official quote from K. Narongsak on Sunday morning, but could be mistaken.