British foreign secretary quits in protest over May's Brexit plan

[Jonnapat]

Another toffee nosed idiot bites the dust.

Good riddance!

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The plan was easy. Even simpletons understood it as it was told from the beginning. Leave the EU, leave the CU and CM and the ECJ. The problem was/is you have politicians and Gina Miller types who are trying with Soros money to stop that plan. If a proper leaver was running the government then the plan would have been executed.

You have just highlighted the entire problem with Brexit, and why it has crashed so spectacularly.

 

As any competent planner will tell you, what you identified as a plan:

 

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The plan was easy. Even simpletons understood it as it was told from the beginning. Leave the EU, leave the CU and CM and the ECJ.

is not a plan, but an objective.

 

The plan would have been how you reach the objective - and that is where the collective you have failed. You had a dream in mind and voted for it without a moment's thought on how you get there.

 

In simple words: YOU HAD NO PLAN!

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

I have called for the EU referendum to be repeated, not because of the split or voter turnout, but because of the dirty tricks of both sides and the mounting evidence pointing to illegality from the Leave campaign. If all was above board and there was no evidence of foul play, then I would not be in a position to call for a repeat.

 

HOWEVER, I would continue to point out that your comments such as

 

is disingenuous, hubristic nonsense. If the UK was ready, more than 50% of the electorate would be supportive of Brexit.

So if the referendum in Scotland had gone 52% to 48% you would have said the result wasn't right, of value, illegal or whatever.  still waiting on that one.

 

On what grounds or evidence that 50% of the electorate counts as a binding vote that people are ready? It was the biggest turnout in history and it doesn't say that 50% or any other % has to be achieved, to have any form of validity legally or from board members on a  forum.  it would seem that like the EU you just don't like the result.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So if the referendum in Scotland had gone 52% to 48% you would have said the result wasn't right, of value, illegal or whatever.  still waiting on that one.

 

On what grounds or evidence that 50% of the electorate counts as a binding vote that people are ready? It was the biggest turnout in history and it doesn't say that 50% or any other % has to be achieved, to have any form of validity legally or from board members on a  forum.  it would seem that like the EU you just don't like the result.

The result of the first independence referendum was accepted by me and everyone else. That the UK government has failed to honour any of the promises they made in order to get that vote is the reason we are pursuing a repeat; no evidence of illegality has arisen that would warrant a challenge of the result.

 

I will repeat myself re: Brexit: I am not challenging the turnout, but I am trying to help you understand that when you write that the UK has been ready for Brexit for years, you are misrepresenting the result and the population - the numbers clearly do not support your position. Semantics maybe, but for the 63% of people who either voted to remain or were, unfortunately, indifferent, you cannot claim that they support you. Brexit won but it does not reflect the majority of the UK population, only the majority of those who voted.

[Laughing Gravy]

14 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

You have just highlighted the entire problem with Brexit, and why it has crashed so spectacularly.

 

As any competent planner will tell you, what you identified as a plan:

 

is not a plan, but an objective.

 

The plan would have been how you reach the objective - and that is where the collective you have failed. You had a dream in mind and voted for it without a moment's thought on how you get there.

 

In simple words: YOU HAD NO PLAN!

That is your take on it. Different to what I have written. it was a plan. Again simple. leave the above and WTO. You can't get easier than that. 

 

How do you know I voted in the referendum without a moments thought. Pure speculation and absolute rubbish. Can you prove it? I look forward to the link on that from Bloomsberg or anywhere else. 

[Laughing Gravy]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The result of the first independence referendum was accepted by me and everyone else. That the UK government has failed to honour any of the promises they made in order to get that vote is the reason we are pursuing a repeat; no evidence of illegality has arisen that would warrant a challenge of the result.

 

I will repeat myself re: Brexit: I am not challenging the turnout, but I am trying to help you understand that when you write that the UK has been ready for Brexit for years, you are misrepresenting the result and the population - the numbers clearly do not support your position. Semantics maybe, but for the 63% of people who either voted to remain or were, unfortunately, indifferent, you cannot claim that they support you. Brexit won but it does not reflect the majority of the UK population, only the majority of those who voted.

Just because there is a vote doesn't mean people have to vote. Its a choice. That's democracy. I firmly believe the UK has been ready for years to have a referendum on Brexit and it was thwarted for years by the establishment.

Yes you are factually correct it does reflect that the majority voted but you can't either say that those that didn't did not want Brexit. Can you or will you show me a definite, scientific link that shows otherwise? I have already said it was my firm belief.

 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That is your take on it. Different to what I have written. it was a plan. Again simple. leave the above and WTO. You can't get easier than that. 

 

How do you know I voted in the referendum without a moments thought. Pure speculation and absolute rubbish. Can you prove it? I look forward to the link on that from Bloomsberg or anywhere else. 

I can assure that, regardless of what you thought your objective was, it was definitely not a plan. If you think that "Leave the EU, leave the CU and CM and the ECJ" amounts to a plan, then your understanding of planning is not correct.  This is not semantics - this is fact.

 

I did state the 'collective you', but the rubbishing of my position should be easy if I am wrong - show me a plan, presented before Brexit, that explained how you would reach your objectives and I will concede that point.

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I can assure that, regardless of what you thought your objective was, it was definitely not a plan. If you think that "Leave the EU, leave the CU and CM and the ECJ" amounts to a plan, then your understanding of planning is not correct.  This is not semantics - this is fact.

 

I did state the 'collective you', but the rubbishing of my position should be easy if I am wrong - show me a plan, presented before Brexit, that explained how you would reach your objectives and I will concede that point.

I think we are going to have to disagree. I have mentioned what was told to the electorate, that if we voted leave. That should have been the plan. It was even mentioned still early  last week by TM. so that was the plan. It wasn't followed through and two senior cabinet ministers have left. I am sure there are more things to come this next few weeks but either way the whole farcical thing has done wonders for me in my view. Even if the country doesn't leave the EU as promised, which I suspect. The EU has been brought to the UK public's forefront and how they operate. People who had never heard of the Lisbon treaty and Maestricht Treaty and the way the EU conduct their business is now exposed.

A result for me either way.

[citybiker]

It always amuses me listening to the minority snp viewpoints & of course any opportunity to criticise HMG.

A simple reminder of poorly Holywood is governed, the snp have to scrape assistance from the Greens is most mattes to push things through, and the new tax policy on people earning £26k+....Sturgeon et al are worse than the Tories & Labour combined.

Despite freebies given in Scotland, other Scots still have to pay for it......

As for Brexit.....bring it on.



Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk

[dragonballz]

14 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

A self-centred, egotistic buffoon.  Hopefully more will follow, and a General Election can be held amidst the World Cup euphoria.  Maybe PM Corbyn will make Gareth Southgate Foreign Secretary?

 

What a bunch of people on here now that anyone with right wings views have gone . All the names you call this guy perhaps you should google his name .

foreign secetary
.mayor of london 8 yrs 
president of oxford union
 Ass editor telegrap 
editor of spectator
mp for henley
 And a lot of other achievements while you haters have achieved what ? Dizzy heights of thai visa expats forum , please enlighten me . Calling somebody a buffon who has reached heights a long way above yourself shows who is the buffoon 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The plan was easy. Even simpletons understood it as it was told from the beginning. Leave the EU, leave the CU and CM and the ECJ. The problem was/is you have politicians and Gina Miller types who are trying with Soros money to stop that plan. If a proper leaver was running the government then the plan would have been executed.

I find it amusing:

 

Brexiteers blame their own failing in life on the EU, foreigners and the mysterious ‘they’.

 

Then having won the Brexit vote they blame the failure of Brexit on others.

 

Cheer up LG you won.

 

OK you won jack s41t and if fails, well you voted for it, you own it and it owns you.

[Laughing Gravy]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I find it amusing:

 

Brexiteers blame their own failing in life on the EU, foreigners and the mysterious ‘they’.

 

Then having won the Brexit vote they blame the failure of Brexit on others.

 

Cheer up LG you won.

 

OK you won jack s41t and if fails, well you voted for it, you own it and it owns you.

Where did I blame the failing on the EU, foreigners and they? I am a Brexiteer and have never said that.  I have stated before that I love the many European countries in the EU having lived in a few. I just don't like what the EU has morphed into from the ECC.

 

I am always happy and have thick skin.?

 

Yes the Leave vote won which I am proud to have voted in. Sadly nobody with the b$lls has been given the opportunity to lead the UK out. So what exactly was your point?

Edited July 10, 2018 by Laughing Gravy

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Where did I blame the failing on the EU, foreigners and they? I am a Brexiteer and have never said that.  I have stated before that I love the many European countries in the EU having lived in a few. I just don't like what the EU has morphed into from the ECC.

 

I am always happy and have thick skin.?

 

Yes the Leave vote won which I am proud to have voted in. Sadly nobody with the b$lls has been given the opportunity to lead the UK out. So what exactly was your point?

 

 

+1

 

 

I don't think he had a point....in fact his post was pointless.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Where did I blame the failing on the EU, foreigners and they? I am a Brexiteer and have never said that.  I have stated before that I love the many European countries in the EU having lived in a few. I just don't like what the EU has morphed into from the ECC.

 

I am always happy and have thick skin.?

 

Yes the Leave vote won which I am proud to have voted in. Sadly nobody with the b$lls has been given the opportunity to lead the UK out. So what exactly was your point?

My point is you voted for nothing, got nothing and now you are blaming others for the fact you got conned.

 

You should have asked where the bus was going before you got on it. - What was written on the bus was no guide! 

Edited July 10, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

+1

 

 

I don't think he had a point....in fact his post was pointless.

And Brexit has no plan.

 

So let’s have BINO instead.

[The Renegade]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

I did state the 'collective you', but the rubbishing of my position should be easy if I am wrong - show me a plan, presented before Brexit, that explained how you would reach your objectives and I will concede that point.

Para 3 of Article 50

 

Quote

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

 

Simple and straightforward, does not need any explanation.

 

The opening UK line should have been '' Under Para 3 of Article 50 '' The UK leaves the EU in its entirety on 29 March 2019 and WTO rules apply from that date.

 

Everyone and his dog now has 2 years 50 get their life in order.

 

In that 2 year period, if you want to talk to us about trade, you know where Downing Street is.

 

Remainers are responsible for the chaos that has ensued since the Referendum and from triggering Article 50.

 

You can start that blame with May and work your way down.

 

 

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

. - What was written on the bus was no guide! 

 

 

I thought the £350m was a fairly accurate figure .....

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Para 3 of Article 50

 

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

 

Simple and straightforward, does not need any explanation.

 

The opening UK line should have been '' Under Para 3 of Article 50 '' The UK leaves the EU in its entirety on 29 March 2019 and WTO rules apply from that date.

 

Everyone and his dog now has 2 years 50 get their life in order.

 

In that 2 year period, if you want to talk to us about trade, you know where Downing Street is.

 

Remainers are responsible for the chaos that has ensued since the Referendum and from triggering Article 50.

 

You can start that blame with May and work your way down.

 

 

“The opening UK line should have been '' Under Para 3 of Article 50 '' The UK leaves the EU in its entirety on 29 March 2019 and WTO rules apply from that date.”

 

Brexit zealot responds to total Brexit chaos with ‘cunning plan’ to introduce more chaos.

[citybiker]

I find it amusing:

 

Brexiteers blame their own failing in life on the EU, foreigners and the mysterious ‘they’.

 

Then having won the Brexit vote they blame the failure of Brexit on others.

 

Cheer up LG you won.

 

OK you won jack s41t and if fails, well you voted for it, you own it and it owns you.

Failure of Brexit, really?

 

Last time I looked it's ongoing & as typical an anti-Brexit for seeking the usual blame game mantra.....tiresome beyond boring.

 

Own life failings, EU, foreigners etc etc

 

The only failure in tangible form is bitter remainers who seek every opportunity to bash anything and anyone pro Brexit as they see it as an opportunity to deal both EU & globally.

 

I find it even more amusing with an added touch of sterotyping there.

 

Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, citybiker said:

Failure of Brexit, really?

Last time I looked it's ongoing & as typical an anti-Brexit for seeking the usual blame game mantra.....tiresome beyond boring.

Own life failings, EU, foreigners etc etc

The only failure in tangible form is bitter remainers who seek every opportunity to bash anything and anyone pro Brexit as they see it as an opportunity.

I find it even more smusing with an added touch of sterotyping there.

Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk
 

BINO = Brexit failure.

[vogie]

55 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

My point is you voted for nothing, got nothing and now you are blaming others for the fact you got conned.

 

You should have asked where the bus was going before you got on it. - What was written on the bus was no guide! 

Whilst you are on your high horse, Mrs May should be looking towards Mrs Merkel to see what happens when you ignore the peoples wishes.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, vogie said:

Whilst you are on your high horse, Mrs May should be looking towards Mrs Merkel to see what happens when you ignore the peoples wishes.

Perhaps the Brexit leaders should look to the history of giving people false hopes.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That is your take on it. Different to what I have written. it was a plan. Again simple. leave the above and WTO. You can't get easier than that. 

You very obviously don’t understand what the difference between an objective and a plan is, and what makes a plan and a good plan. Apparently you are not alone though; none of the Brexit fans seem to understand that the economical and political reality is a tiny bit more complex than three bullet point. Which, btw, is also the reason why Referendums like this are completely insane and we better stick to representative democracy. The majority of people simply don’t have the knowledge and experience to make an informed decision about complex questions. 

 

In that regard, to what extent is the referendum actually legally binding? Or would the UK government legally be allowed to decide to remain? 

 

Either way, and even though I feel bad for all my friends in the U.K., it makes me laugh to see this lunacy fall apart day by day as everyone could foresee from the very beginning on. There was never a way for the U.K. to come out of this better than before, only more or less worse. Its a lose-lose for everyone, but certainly the most for the U.K. itself, and for Brexit and remain voters alike. Hopefully some people will wake up and do some damage control. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

People who had never heard of the Lisbon treaty and Maestricht Treaty and the way the EU conduct their business is now exposed.

How do you “expose” something that is and has always been public information? Or are the “People” you’re referring to those that only read The Sun?

[tebee]

Comment on Boris from Yasmin  Ali Just before he resigned,  on what she think Boris will do - used with permission

 

For a long time it has been clear that Brexit was a political rallying cry, a symbolic demand, rather than a practical policy objective. Equally, the Leave victory in the referendum was a political victory only. They ran a campaign, however dishonestly, even fraudulently, that was by any measure a political success. Indeed, it was a little too successful for some of its proponents, who were, in Sarah Vine’s memorable words, “only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!”

 

Which brings us to Boris, or Al, as he is known to his friends and family, that being his name. He’s cancelled engagements today. Perhaps he’s a bit poorly? Then again, perhaps he’s writing a pair of sophisticated articles to rehearse his new, game-changing, position on Brexit?

 

He needs a game changer. David Davis, lazy old soak, has done the resigny thing, so that’s a non-starter. He’s done the ‘dissing the PM in public’ thing, in the hope of provoking a sacking, so that he can be a martyr, and that doesn’t work. What is left?

There’s only one true, headline-generating, gobsmacking rabbit he can pull out of the hat.

Boris must change sides!

 

The signs have been there for a while. He never believed in the project, and consistency has never been his thing. Dominic Cummings, and latterly old BoJob himself, have been saying that May’s Brexit is worse than staying in the EU (axiomatic, I’d have thought). So why not stun the media with a total volte face?

It’s genius! Like Bobby Ewing emerging from the shower (google it, kids), Boris can say, it was all a dream! The last two years, every terrifying moment, never happened. Or rather, and this is so ‘have cake and eat it’, it happened, and he was a Brexiter par excellence, and yet, sadly, he must now ride to the rescue to save the nation (or at least, the Tory Party) from the brilliant idea that has been trashed beyond recognition by the evil/incompetent/not up to the job T May.

It’s not impossible!

[tebee]

Can I just say that while I don't agree with Boris Johnson on anything, I want to be absolutely clear that I have absolutely no respect for him either.

[Laughing Gravy]

26 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You very obviously don’t understand what the difference between an objective and a plan is, and what makes a plan and a good plan. Apparently you are not alone though; none of the Brexit fans seem to understand that the economical and political reality is a tiny bit more complex than three bullet point. Which, btw, is also the reason why Referendums like this are completely insane and we better stick to representative democracy. The majority of people simply don’t have the knowledge and experience to make an informed decision about complex questions. 

 

In that regard, to what extent is the referendum actually legally binding? Or would the UK government legally be allowed to decide to remain? 

 

Either way, and even though I feel bad for all my friends in the U.K., it makes me laugh to see this lunacy fall apart day by day as everyone could foresee from the very beginning on. There was never a way for the U.K. to come out of this better than before, only more or less worse. Its a lose-lose for everyone, but certainly the most for the U.K. itself, and for Brexit and remain voters alike. Hopefully some people will wake up and do some damage control. 

That is your opinion, which clearly isn't mine and I suspect many others on here or in the UK. If you followed the many threads on here over the last 2 plus years, I and many others, are not surprised one bit in the direction the Brexit talks have gone. In fact many, including myself sadly, expected this to be where we are now.

 

But like watching your country's football team in the world cup (whichever it is) you live in hope and even give the benefit of the doubt until you realise, you were right all along. So I wouldn't feel that those that voted leave didn't understand the political reality. Sadly we did. That doesn't mean you don't expect your team to score the penalties when the time comes.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Laughing Gravy

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

so I wouldn't feel that those that voted leave didn't understand the political reality. 

Anyone understanding only a fraction of the complexities would never have voted leave. Especially not without having seen any alternative(s) and a robust plan how to achieve it. This is just pure insane and I wish the U.K. and all my friends there good luck with this. I hope somehow people in charge will wake up and undo this mess. Certainly not everything is good in the EU. But overall we are all benefiting from it way more than it hurts us. 

[vogie]

22 minutes ago, tebee said:

Can I just say that while I don't agree with Boris Johnson on anything, I want to be absolutely clear that I have absolutely no respect for him either.

And do you share the same sentiments for the head of the EU J C Juncker, just curious?

[natway09]

"Business friendly Brexit"

You are going to have to leave first, before start worrying about business deals.

A delegation went to NZ & Australia to beg for a reinstatement of the old trading regime that stopped when 

joined but when asked questions on any details replied, "Well we don't know yet"

The reply was "Well you are welcome back when you do"

No more taxpayers money has been wasted yet on further delegations to the best of my knowledge