Another change for U.S. Citizens.

[NancyL]

Well, I guess you can dress nice to impress the college interns who check the paperwork before they dole out the queue tickets.  But, all they care about is if you have your documents in order.

[happyme]

On 8/31/2018 at 11:50 AM, Dante99 said:

I do not think there has been confirmation that CM Immigration is checking proof of income for extension renewals, is there?  Has it been only for first timers?  There seem to be reports of recent renewals without proof required.  Correct?

My friend has being doing R visa for years this time he had to get bank statement 

[NancyL]

8 minutes ago, happyme said:

My friend has being doing R visa for years this time he had to get bank statement 

Was this in addition to the Income Letter or Stat Dec from his Consulate/Embassy?

[happyme]

Just now, NancyL said:

Was this in addition to the Income Letter or Stat Dec from his Consulate/Embassy?

He had done his income letter but was told he needed up to date bank statment

 

[happyme]

2 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Was this in addition to the Income Letter or Stat Dec from his Consulate/Embassy?

He had done his letter but was told he needed up to date bank statment

[bubba]

Had dinner last evening with my American friend who went through his retirement extension last week, using an agent. Here is what he told me:

 

- The new requirement for Americans to have supporting documentation is only being enforced by Chiang Mai. The agent told him that the reason for this is that a foreign national complained to immigration that only providing the American Consulate affidavit was unfair, because other foreign nationals had to provide supporting documents to obtain their consulate's affidavit. 

 

- There are no exceptions and Americans must now bring their consulate affidavit together with statements to verify the income. In my friend's case, he has US Social Security direct deposits to his bank in excess of the 60,000 baht requirement, so he brought along a statement from the bank. They did look at that and it was acceptable.

 

- For those presently caught in the middle without supporting documentation or the 800,000 baht in the bank for two months, those individuals will have to leave Thailand and start over. If they cannot show the required monthly income, they have to leave, establish the bank deposit now, wait two months, wait until their current extension has expired, obtain a new non-immigrant visa and come back to start the retirement visa extension process again. He mentioned that his agent told him that a lot of Americans were leaving now, some to wait out the deposit, and some not returning to Thailand. For those Americans who are returning, this will no doubt be an expensive process.

 

While I can understand Immigration's insistence on a instituting a level playing field based on the complaint they received, it does seem like a better approach would have been to provide advance notice for those Americans who needed to plan their new strategy.

[Dante99]

31 minutes ago, bubba said:

In my friend's case, he has US Social Security direct deposits to his bank in excess of the 60,000 baht requirement, so he brought along a statement from the bank.

Thai bank or US bank statement?

 

Thanks.

[bubba]

It was his Thai bank. he didn't say which one, but US Social Security has a designated bank in Thailand to which they will do direct deposits. I think I read somewhere that this is SCB, but not sure.

[jmd8800]

44 minutes ago, bubba said:

Had dinner last evening with my American friend who went through his retirement extension last week, using an agent. Here is what he told me:

 

- The new requirement for Americans to have supporting documentation is only being enforced by Chiang Mai. The agent told him that the reason for this is that a foreign national complained to immigration that only providing the American Consulate affidavit was unfair, because other foreign nationals had to provide supporting documents to obtain their consulate's affidavit. 

 

- There are no exceptions and Americans must now bring their consulate affidavit together with statements to verify the income. In my friend's case, he has US Social Security direct deposits to his bank in excess of the 60,000 baht requirement, so he brought along a statement from the bank. They did look at that and it was acceptable.

 

- For those presently caught in the middle without supporting documentation or the 800,000 baht in the bank for two months, those individuals will have to leave Thailand and start over. If they cannot show the required monthly income, they have to leave, establish the bank deposit now, wait two months, wait until their current extension has expired, obtain a new non-immigrant visa and come back to start the retirement visa extension process again. He mentioned that his agent told him that a lot of Americans were leaving now, some to wait out the deposit, and some not returning to Thailand. For those Americans who are returning, this will no doubt be an expensive process.

 

While I can understand Immigration's insistence on a instituting a level playing field based on the complaint they received, it does seem like a better approach would have been to provide advance notice for those Americans who needed to plan their new strategy.

If this is the case that this requirement is only in Chiang Mai then an American expat can move to a different location and get his / her extension until they can their affairs in order. No need to go through the process all over again.

 

Don't Australians have the ability to use the income affidavit as well? Will Australians be required to do the same proof?

[bubba]

I’m not sure moving to another province, establishing an address, doing the extension, and then moving back to Chiang Mai would work. Doesn’t immigration sometimes call around to your registered address to see if you are really living there? Hasn’t happened to me, but I’ve heard the story. 

 

Also, what about the new TM30 you would get back in CM?  Where would you do your 90 days?

[NancyL]

4 hours ago, bubba said:

It was his Thai bank. he didn't say which one, but US Social Security has a designated bank in Thailand to which they will do direct deposits. I think I read somewhere that this is SCB, but not sure.

It's Bangkok Bank.

 

 

[NancyL]

4 hours ago, bubba said:

I’m not sure moving to another province, establishing an address, doing the extension, and then moving back to Chiang Mai would work. Doesn’t immigration sometimes call around to your registered address to see if you are really living there? Hasn’t happened to me, but I’ve heard the story. 

 

Also, what about the new TM30 you would get back in CM?  Where would you do your 90 days?

There are other "work-arounds" that people from countries with Embassies that require "proof" have been using for years that will undoubtedly be offered to Americans in short order.  All this new requirement does is make it more expensive for people already living on the edge who want to remain in Thailand.

[Jingthing]

It's Bangkok Bank.
 
 

That option may be ending effective April 2019.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bubba]

1 minute ago, NancyL said:

There are other "work-arounds" that people from countries with Embassies that require "proof" have been using for years that will undoubtedly be offered to Americans in short order.  All this new requirement does is make it more expensive for people already living on the edge who want to remain in Thailand.

I think it's not just people "living on the edge". For example, someone who really doesn't have much income, but has plenty of cash to spare to live here. They also have several hundred thousand dollars in investment accounts which they are managing for capital appreciation. I can fully understand why such an American would prefer to use the income affidavit rather than transfer over a sum of money to a Thai bank which will then be sitting there making nothing

 

As for these other "work arounds"...I am curious to know what those are, assuming that can be discussed here.

[NancyL]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That option may be ending effective April 2019.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

No one has said anything about Social Security direct deposit ending April 2019 -- only ACH transfers.  I can't see Bangkok Bank giving up the business of direct deposit of SS, VA and other U.S. gov't monthly checks.

[amexpat]

On 8/31/2018 at 11:23 AM, amexpat said:

 

As shown at the top of the page: 

 

Easy Thai Retirement Visa

No funds needed, No visa, no fee. We do everything; no stress or  worry.   I think it costs about 20K which should make an i-o very happy.

You mean like this? 

 

 

As for these other "work arounds"...I am curious to know what those are, assuming that can be discussed here.

 

 

[Jingthing]

No one has said anything about Social Security direct deposit ending April 2019 -- only ACH transfers.  I can't see Bangkok Bank giving up the business of direct deposit of SS, VA and other U.S. gov't monthly checks.

Actually this has been discussed in detail here on other threads. As things stand now Bangkok Bank still lacks a solution to be able to continue the SS ACH transfers after April. They are seeking a solution but that does not mean they will definitely find one. People are well advised to seek a backup plan before April.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Dante99]

On 8/31/2018 at 6:33 PM, pizzachang said:

By the way, I was asked to produce further documentation in June for non-O extension, but they weren't too particular.

Did you show them documentation from Thai banks or sources or from US or foreign bank or sources?  

 

Thanks.

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, amexpat said:

As for these other "work arounds"...I am curious to know what those are, assuming that can be discussed here.

I am also curious that a subject discussing illegal activity is being allowed to continue on TV.  I always thought it was against the "Rules" to do such a thing.

Maybe "THEY" have an agent as a "sponsor"!

[watcharacters]

On 7/15/2018 at 11:30 AM, moontang said:

prisons are full of people who committed victimless crime.  ct is the sworn duty of police to uphold the law; not interpret it to their liking.

 

"It is the sworn duty of police to uphold the law; not interpret it to their liking."

 

Please let us know you're only joking..

 

[NaamGin]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That option may be ending effective April 2019.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

A link to the "other threads" would be helpful. Why would a bank shut down all ACH's from the USA? 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, NaamGin said:

A link to the "other threads" would be helpful. Why would a bank shut down all ACH's from the USA? 

ACH is only for domestic USA transfers.

Bangkok Bank has been the only Thai bank offering a workaround scheme so that people could do ACH transfers to Bangkok Bank New York that were directed to Thailand without the sending U.S. ACH bank being in the loop.

However, technically, that is not really allowed as international ACH transfers are required to be in IAT format. Those were not.

The assumption people made even though regular ACH will definitely be shut down by Bangkok Bank flowing to Thailand for retail customers, that Social Security send would still work.

However that assumption has now been strongly called into doubt. Member Pib has posted entensively about this and his direct communication with Bangkok Bank New York about these issues.

It's certainly possible that there will a solution found before April next year for Social Security payments but the regular ACH flows will definitely be shut down. As things stand now, it seems clear unless a solution is found, the Social Security ACH scheme will be shut down as well.

Yes, these are complex technical banking issues, but bottom line, people are well advised now to seek BACKUP plans to receiving their Social Security if they've been using the Bangkok Bank direct deposit method. 

 

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1050250-major-change-eff-1-apr-19-in-bangkok-bank-ach-transfers/?page=14&tab=comments#comment-13319395

 

[earlinclaifornia]

USA SSA online includes a printable statement of monthly earnings. The US consulate in Chiang Mai did not look at mine but I would think Thai Immigration will. It is the current annual amounts awarded.

[amexpat]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

As things stand now, it seems clear unless a solution is found, the Social Security ACH scheme will be shut down as well.

Yes, these are complex technical banking issues, but bottom line, people are well advised now to seek BACKUP plans to receiving their Social Security if they've been using the Bangkok Bank direct deposit method. 

Ideas about BACKUP plans would be most welcome. ATM, Credit Card Cash Advances? etc. 

Do we need another thread for this? 

[jmd8800]

2 minutes ago, amexpat said:

Ideas about BACKUP plans would be most welcome. ATM, Credit Card Cash Advances? etc. 

Do we need another thread for this? 

The other thread is the one mentioned above by Jingthing.

 

 

[bubba]

Couldn't you have it deposited to your US bank and then do wire transfers to your Thai bank account?

[amexpat]

1 hour ago, jmd8800 said:

The other thread is the one mentioned above by Jingthing.

 

 

Thanks. So far TransferWise (TW) is looking like the best option (for me). 

[earlinclaifornia]

1 hour ago, bubba said:

Couldn't you have it deposited to your US bank and then do wire transfers to your Thai bank account?

I have been doing that and have a profile at my bank for ease of transacting. $35 to transfer 6-10KUSD

 

37 minutes ago, amexpat said:

Thanks. So far TransferWise (TW) is looking like the best option (for me). 

 

[Time Traveller]

I don't quite understand this issue about proof of income. It's seems strange thai immigration are asking this, since the definition of income in USA is different from the definition of income in Thailand - they have different tax codes .

 

Example, according to the IRS, selling shares with capital gains in the US is income. But in Thai tax law it is not income. Accordingly for Americans with investments, they can almost manipulate their income to appear however they want it - by realizing losses or gains to minimize taxable income for any particular year  - hence the reason this request of "proof of income" is pointless. (In fact, taxation of capital gains is pointless as well due to offsetting loses against gains, hopefully the IRS will someday agree!) 

 

[pizzachang]

On 9/3/2018 at 5:49 PM, Dante99 said:

Did you show them documentation from Thai banks or sources or from US or foreign bank or sources?  

 

Thanks.

I just showed them my 1099's from SS and State of Alaska DRB. I've already prepared for my next extension by collecting my past 1099's, the notices informing me of retirement bennies and SS and I'll also download 3 or 6 months deposit statements from my bank in the US. Easy and maybe we won't need the Consulate's affidavit, saving $50.