Trump claims NATO victory after ultimatum to go it alone

[farcanell]

18 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

I think it's important to define the word outrage because you're making it sound like something other than what it was originally used for at the beginning of this thread.

 

Not really. Angry people are the easiest people to manipulate in the word. Only a person who loves to hold onto his anger would say something as silly as that. And I can give two hoots about your worship of the intellectual. I only care about what is right or wrong, good or evil.

Ok, so I took your advice and went back to the beginning....

 

On 7/13/2018 at 6:08 AM, webfact said:

Donald Trump gave an angry ultimatum to European allies 

Mmmm

 

On 7/13/2018 at 6:08 AM, webfact said:

Trump tweeted out more of his anger overnight,

Picture developing

 

On 7/13/2018 at 6:08 AM, webfact said:

People present said he raged that allies.....

Checking for clarity

 

On 7/13/2018 at 6:08 AM, webfact said:

Stoltenberg, stepping in -- not for the first time -- as peacemaker between Trump and the other 28,

 Yep.... got it.... the only angry person discussed on this thread is mr trump.... and you (with your anger management issues, happily resolved, as your a proud supporter of A2)

 

now... outrage.

 

On 7/13/2018 at 8:00 AM, wwest5829 said:

My outrage, as an American citizen does not have to be manipulated. It forms naturally when The Donald opens his mouth. His words, policies and actions are an anthemia. I judge him on his own merits...or lack thereof.

West first mentions the term outrage, and I can see no overt anger in this statement. His words appear well chosen and intelligible.... but then you pick up on the term, and you embellish it and then attempt to apply a definitive meaning, and use that as a trolling point.

 

anyway....  you only care about right and wrong, good and evil.... but.... well... that doesn’t cut it. Your dear leader, Trump, is far from the epitome of right vs wrong, by anyone’s definition

 

and good vs evil.... lock up Hillary, when the US justice system is crawling all over trump and his minions.... mmmm... ok

[Rigby40]

2 minutes ago, tumama said:

 

He did call them good people. That sounds like support to me. 

He blamed both sides and also said there were SOME very fine people on both sides.

Convenient of you to leave that out. By your faulty logic, he could also be considered in support of Antifa and communists.

But like I said, just keep on doing what you're doing ?

[Rigby40]

8 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Ok, so I took your advice and went back to the beginning....

 

Mmmm

 

Picture developing

 

Checking for clarity

 

 Yep.... got it.... the only angry person discussed on this thread is mr trump.... and you (with your anger management issues, happily resolved, as your a proud supporter of A2)

 

now... outrage.

 

West first mentions the term outrage, and I can see no overt anger in this statement. His words appear well chosen and intelligible.... but then you pick up on the term, and you embellish it and then attempt to apply a definitive meaning, and use that as a trolling point.

 

anyway....  you only care about right and wrong, good and evil.... but.... well... that doesn’t cut it. Your dear leader, Trump, is far from the epitome of right vs wrong, by anyone’s definition

 

and good vs evil.... lock up Hillary, when the US justice system is crawling all over trump and his minions.... mmmm... ok

Ok so nobody is angry about Donald Trump. Gotcha.

In this alternate universe is water dry and does fasting make you fat?? Please do tell me more!

 

One day I'll get myself a nice firearm but not my top prio atm.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Rigby40

[farcanell]

5 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

He blamed both sides and also said there were SOME very fine people on both sides.

Convenient of you to leave that out. By your faulty logic, he could also be considered in support of Antifa and communists.

But like I said, just keep on doing what you're doing ?

Lol... again... and you want specifics (??? and suggested I had nothing and would run away with my tail between my legs)

 

specifically... trumps words were supportive of neo nazi activities. Hey, they may have been supportive of the peaceful rally folk as well, but then, they were a peaceful rally attacked by neo nazis

 

you can’t spin that stuff.... or at least not to foreigners.... and (re your other post) I’m not European, and have a pretty good handle on freedom of speech issues, which is not something that the American constitution invented. (Sorry if that bursts a bubble)

 

for example, trump can exercise his right to free speech, and lie and deceive as much as he likes, but as you point out, that doesn’t guarantee immunity from being called out about it.... which often happens thru outrage, derision and comedy.... but still some of the people can be fooled all of the time (because trump is manipulating them into believing his deceit)

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Ok so nobody is angry about Donald Trump. Gotcha.

In this alternate universe is water dry and does fasting make you fat?? Please do tell me more!

 

One day I'll get myself a nice firearm but not my top prio atm.

Opponents of Trump are angry about his increasingly frequent lies and falsehoods

Supporters of  Trump are angry with him. Which is a lot sadder because it means they either ignore or believe his increasingly frequent lies and falsehoods.

[Rigby40]

1 minute ago, farcanell said:

Lol... again... and you want specifics (??? and suggested I had nothing and would run away with my tail between my legs)

 

specifically... trumps words were supportive of neo nazi activities. Hey, they may have been supportive of the peaceful rally folk as well, but then, they were a peaceful rally attacked by neo nazis

 

you can’t spin that stuff.... or at least not to foreigners.... and (re your other post) I’m not European, and have a pretty good handle on freedom of speech issues, which is not something that the American constitution invented. (Sorry if that bursts a bubble)

 

for example, trump can exercise his right to free speech, and lie and deceive as much as he likes, but as you point out, that doesn’t guarantee immunity from being called out about it.... which often happens thru outrage, derision and comedy.... but still some of the people can be fooled all of the time (because trump is manipulating them into believing his deceit)

Antifa peaceful? LMAO!!!! 555555555555!!

You really are living in an alternate universe!???

 

Specifically, which words were supportive of neo nazi activities? Specifically of course.

 

Ok you must be from Soyville USA then. No bubbles burst.

[farcanell]

8 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Ok so nobody is angry about Donald Trump. Gotcha.

In this alternate universe is water dry and does fasting make you fat?? Please do tell me more!

 

One day I'll get myself a nice firearm but not my top prio atm.

Mmmm.... more spinning.... you’ll need new tread on those tires before long

 

no one said that people were not angry.... I said outrage did not nessesarily mean anger.... and I also note that there was no anger at the beginning of the thread, or any real mention of anger, except as displayed by your dear leader.... and I then demonstrated that to you, including the fact that it was you who decided to twist word usage

 

back to A1.... that’s your right.... but you must expect to be called out for it, just like your dear leader

 

lol... and you say I have nothing... precious. 

[Rigby40]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

Opponents of Trump are angry about his increasingly frequent lies and falsehoods

Supporters of  Trump are angry with him. Which is a lot sadder because it means they either ignore or believe his increasingly frequent lies and falsehoods.

Can't deny that, I've met some Trump supporters who got off the Trump train. Some came back months later, others didn't.

[lovelomsak]

I was just wondering how hard it must be for other  world leaders to deal with trump.

  He is wealthy beyond most of their dreams.. Unlike them he did not kiss ass and cheat and lie to work his way up the political ladder. He has little in common with most leaders who will do what ever it takes to get their party in power and anything it takes to keep the power. Good examples  are Germany and England.

   Trump does not need politics to be a success he is there for his country and is not shy to say so and act on it.He is  man who saw a need and stepped up to do the job. The vanilla politicians have no skills to cope with Trump and very few tools at their  disposal.

[Rigby40]

10 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Mmmm.... more spinning.... you’ll need new tread on those tires before long

 

no one said that people were not angry.... I said outrage did not nessesarily mean anger.... and I also note that there was no anger at the beginning of the thread, or any real mention of anger, except as displayed by your dear leader.... and I then demonstrated that to you, including the fact that it was you who decided to twist word usage

 

back to A1.... that’s your right.... but you must expect to be called out for it, just like your dear leader

 

lol... and you say I have nothing... precious. 

yep you don't have anything. You've been so blinded by anger that you totally forgot to address my question. How SPECIFICALLY has Trump manipulated me?

 

And I have a couple questions for you. How does it feel to waste so much time and energy on someone you hate and feel anger towards? What good has it done for you? What positive improvements in your life do you see from it? Are you more happy or miserable after it all?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Rigby40

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, lovelomsak said:

I was just wondering how hard it must be for other  world leaders to deal with trump.

  He is wealthy beyond most of their dreams.. Unlike them he did not kiss ass and cheat and lie to work his way up the political ladder. He has little in common with most leaders who will do what ever it takes to get their party in power and anything it takes to keep the power. Good examples  are Germany and England.

   Trump does not need politics to be a success he is there for his country and is not shy to say so and act on it.He is  man who saw a need and stepped up to do the job. The vanilla politicians have no skills to cope with Trump and very few tools at their  disposal.

But he did cheat and lie to work his way up the business ladder. Only after he worked his way down the business ladder and squandered his inheritance on business deals that he badly negotiated. He got taken for a ride again and again.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Rigby40 said:

yep you don't have anything. You've been so blinded by anger that you totally forgot to address my question. How SPECIFICALLY has Trump manipulated me?

 

 

I think you gave it away when the issues you cited that especially appealed to you about Trump were all hot button issues. Remember that during his campaign Trump took some economic positions that were populist. He abandoned them all in favor of programs that favored the rich. So it turns out that the populist was really a demagogue and doing the same thing that Republicans have done all along. Get people riled up about social issues but when it comes to money, favor the wealthy. If you want to know where someone really stands politically, follow the money.

I will say that his protectionism does stray from that. But as the countries he's targeted note, he actually isn't offering coherent negotiating positions. It's just about being destructive.

[farcanell]

19 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Antifa peaceful? LMAO!!!! 555555555555!!

You really are living in an alternate universe!???

 

Specifically, which words were supportive of neo nazi activities? Specifically of course.

 

Ok you must be from Soyville USA then. No bubbles burst.

More deflection

 

a neo nazi committed vehicular murder, injuring 19 others, in what the AG termed an act of domestic terrorism. (not antifa, who oppose hate, perhaps unfortunately using hate to fight hate, but hey, it’s yall, including trump, that accepts that)

 

you know what trump said about it... and to confuse what he said, you also know he expects everyone to work out what he means ( he keeps saying that you know what he mean, after all).... but it’s probably what he did not say that’s more telling.

 

Its all a part of his blah blah that has sucked his supporter base in, including you ( thats correct, right? You are a supporter).... ergo, as a supporter, you are being manipulated into supporting him.... but that’s ok, others are manipulated into supporting the NRA or Hillary or free health care etc etc.... your choice... choice made

 

 

[Rigby40]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

I think you gave it away when the issues you cited that especially appealed to you about Trump were all hot button issues. Remember that during his campaign Trump took some economic positions that were populist. He abandoned them all in favor of programs that favored the rich. So it turns out that the populist was really a demagogue and doing the same thing that Republicans have done all along. Get people riled up about social issues but when it comes to money, favor the wealthy. If you want to know where someone really stands politically, follow the money.

I will say that his protectionism does stray from that. But as the countries he's targeted note, he actually isn't offering coherent negotiating positions. It's just about being destructive.

I've held most of those positions before Trump even started his campaign. He's a representative of most(not all) of my values. As soon as he deviates to a degree, I will drop him like a hot potato. He's done more to fight political correctness than I could have ever imagined. So far he's delivering on my concerns.

My alliance is to God, family and country, not Trump.

[Rigby40]

3 minutes ago, farcanell said:

More deflection

 

a neo nazi committed vehicular murder, injuring 19 others, in what the AG termed an act of domestic terrorism. (not antifa, who oppose hate, perhaps unfortunately using hate to fight hate, but hey, it’s yall, including trump, that accepts that)

 

you know what trump said about it... and to confuse what he said, you also know he expects everyone to work out what he means ( he keeps saying that you know what he mean, after all).... but it’s probably what he did not say that’s more telling.

 

Its all a part of his blah blah that has sucked his supporter base in, including you ( thats correct, right? You are a supporter).... ergo, as a supporter, you are being manipulated into supporting him.... but that’s ok, others are manipulated into supporting the NRA or Hillary or free health care etc etc.... your choice... choice made

 

 

Try again when you actually answer what I asked. You don't even get gold star for participation this time around sorry to say.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Rigby40

[AYJAYDEE]

2 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Try again when you actually answer what I asked. You don't even get gold star for participation this time around sorry to say.

he sure does from those of us watching him cut you off at every corner

 

[bristolboy]

Just now, Rigby40 said:

I've held most of those positions before Trump even started his campaign. He's a representative of most(not all) of my values.

I  believe this post. But there's somebody on this thread who has lied about how you came to your present political positions. His avatar is Rigby40. And here's what he wrote: His avatar is Rigby40. And here is what he wrote on post #25:

"I was a liberal when I started considering voting for Trump, many of us were."

Such dishonesty. I trust you will disavow him.

Or it could be that you are just a concern troll.

 

 

[roobaa01]

it will be 2 % right away and 4 % thereafter. then it is a matter how to define the contributions if expenses like building roads, bridges etc can be taken into that calculation fine that would be bona fide. it would be investment which makes sense militarily, stratigically and commercially.

 

no wonder lame duck merkel is hesitant to react as during her 13 years tenure the german army has been run down helicopters ,submarines, tanks etc mainly out of order. the soldiers ill-equipped with new handbags instead of rifles to defend themselves.

 

europes problems are merkel, juncker, macron w.o. them relation to the us would be terrific.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[AYJAYDEE]

1 minute ago, roobaa01 said:

it will be 2 % right away and 4 % thereafter. then it is a matter how to define the contributions if expenses like building roads, bridges etc can be taken into that calculation fine that would be bona fide. it would be investment which makes sense militarily, stratigically and commercially.

 

no wonder lame duck merkel is hesitant to react as during her 13 years tenure the german army has been run down helicopters ,submarines, tanks etc mainly out of order. the soldiers ill-equipped with new handbags instead of rifles to defend themselves.

 

europes problems are merkel, juncker, macron w.o. them relation to the us would be terrific.

 

wbr

roobaa01

lol. without folks who call americas bluff relations with us would be great! brilliant observation

 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, roobaa01 said:

it will be 2 % right away and 4 % thereafter. then it is a matter how to define the contributions if expenses like building roads, bridges etc can be taken into that calculation fine that would be bona fide. it would be investment which makes sense militarily, stratigically and commercially.

 

no wonder lame duck merkel is hesitant to react as during her 13 years tenure the german army has been run down helicopters ,submarines, tanks etc mainly out of order. the soldiers ill-equipped with new handbags instead of rifles to defend themselves.

 

europes problems are merkel, juncker, macron w.o. them relation to the us would be terrific.

 

wbr

roobaa01

You got some piece of paper where it showed the leaders agreed to that immediate 2 percent? And as for 4 percent, that's more than the US does now. Has Trump committed the USA to that?

[farcanell]

22 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

yep you don't have anything. You've been so blinded by anger that you totally forgot to address my question. How SPECIFICALLY has Trump manipulated me?

 

And I have a couple questions for you. How does it feel to waste so much time and energy on someone you hate and feel anger towards? What good has it done for you? What positive improvements in your life do you see from it? Are you more happy or miserable after it all?

Gee.... really... and we’re pray tell, have I shown anger?

 

gee... really... you support trump... ergo you have been manipulated by him and his party and his politics. ( if you changed your opinion and voted against trump, then you would have been manipulated by another, but at the moment, it’s trump)

 

gee... really.... wasted time and energy.... this, by and large, is entertainment.... when it’s not, it’s very important to be vocal in opposition, so nothing wasted, even on you, as others also read the thread and can make their own determination on our opposing views, and their worth

 

and the rest... wow... ok. As already posted, what anger? ... and no hate speech’s made.... so what difference has it made? Not much globally, but then you ask after my happiness / misery in protesting trump.... 

 

Well... definitely on the positive side personally, as I believe opinions influence our reality, but an unexpressed opinion is a worthless opinion ( yes... some voiced opinions are also worthless... but that’s to others, and therefore their problem) so in voicing it, I’m following my conscious... which is a good thing personally (I think you made, or implied, a similar thing somewhere way back where, so I’m thinking you can understand that, at least)

 

[Rigby40]

10 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I  believe this post. But there's somebody on this thread who has lied about how you came to your present political positions. His avatar is Rigby40. And here's what he wrote: His avatar is Rigby40. And here is what he wrote on post #25:

"I was a liberal when I started considering voting for Trump, many of us were."

Such dishonesty. I trust you will disavow him.

Or it could be that you are just a concern troll.

 

 

haha cute

I was always politically incorrect(still am), pro free speech(still am), didnt really have a strong opinion on guns either way at the time, pro gay rights at the time(most LGBT issues, not at all anymore), was against illegal immigration(still am), was for separation of church and state and the list goes on.

That clear things up a bit?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Rigby40

[Rigby40]

10 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Gee.... really... and we’re pray tell, have I shown anger?

 

gee... really... you support trump... ergo you have been manipulated by him and his party and his politics. ( if you changed your opinion and voted against trump, then you would have been manipulated by another, but at the moment, it’s trump)

 

gee... really.... wasted time and energy.... this, by and large, is entertainment.... when it’s not, it’s very important to be vocal in opposition, so nothing wasted, even on you, as others also read the thread and can make their own determination on our opposing views, and their worth

 

and the rest... wow... ok. As already posted, what anger? ... and no hate speech’s made.... so what difference has it made? Not much globally, but then you ask after my happiness / misery in protesting trump.... 

 

Well... definitely on the positive side personally, as I believe opinions influence our reality, but an unexpressed opinion is a worthless opinion ( yes... some voiced opinions are also worthless... but that’s to others, and therefore their problem) so in voicing it, I’m following my conscious... which is a good thing personally (I think you made, or implied, a similar thing somewhere way back where, so I’m thinking you can understand that, at least)

 

No manipulation here sorry.

 

Are you on here trying to influence and change people's minds?

 

Do you love Donald Trump? That will tell me all I need to know about your issues with anger and hatred.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Rigby40

[bristolboy]

18 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

haha cute

I was always politically incorrect(still am), pro free speech(still am), didnt really have a strong opinion on guns either way at the time, pro gay rights at the time(most LGBT issues, not at all anymore), was against illegal immigration(still am), was for separation of church and state and the list goes on.

That clear things up a bit?

Obviously not at all. First you claimed you were a liberal until you started considering Trump's candidacy than you claimed you had mostly arrived at your present positions before Trump's candidacy. You're not fooling anyone who has at least a minimal capacity to examine evidence. You got caught out. Just acknowledge and move on. Coming clean will make you feel a lot better. And I'm offering this counseling advice in exactly the same spirit that you are offering yours.

[farcanell]

5 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

No manipulation here sorry.

 

Are you on here trying to influence and change people's minds?

 

Do you love Donald Trump? That will tell me all I need to know about your issues with anger and hatred.

?????..... wait... wait... ????

 

ah.... did I say entertainment somewhere back there ???

 

anyway.... let’s see... in general terms, by and large,  by expressing an opinion, one is attempting to influence another’s opinion. That’s easy to understand, right?

 

that said, I’m on here having my say, much like you, but from  a broader more inclusive stand point ( I understand that you might wish to debate that)

 

now... do I love Donald... no. Nor do I love Hillary.... or jfk.... or Reagan.... or Washington... or any other politician, including those in my own country ( although there are a couple of milfs).... so how and what does that tell you about my personal issues with anger and hatred? And.... how are you qualified to interpret that information? ( I’m more interested in the former question, the later is a curiosity)

 

 

 

[roobaa01]

the 2 % respectively 4 % funds are going to be derived by cutting down the billions of euros of wasted tax payers money spent on comforting illegal asylum -and socialtourist from africa and the middle east.

 

wbr

roobaa01

Edited July 14, 2018 by roobaa01

[Rigby40]

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Obviously not at all. First you claimed you were a liberal until you started considering Trump's candidacy than you claimed you had mostly arrived at your present positions before Trump's candidacy. You're not fooling anyone who has at least a minimal capacity to examine evidence. You got caught out. Just acknowledge and move on. Coming clean will make you feel a lot better. And I'm offering this counseling advice in exactly the same spirit that you are offering yours.

Wow you're having a very tough time with this.

At the time I was extremely liberal with some conservative values from my upraising. Feminism, gay rights,  evolution, I embraced nearly the whole liberal package. I just had some very conservative positions on things as well which I already mentioned except for the formerly bi partisan issue of free speech.

Take a deep breath, step back and read slowly. The only inconsistencies here are the ones in your head.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Rigby40

[AYJAYDEE]

3 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

the 2 % respectively funds are going to be derived by cutting down the billions of euros of wasted tax payers money spent on comforting illegal asylum -and socialtourist from africa and the middle east.

 

wbr

roobaa01

no it isnt

 

[Srikcir]

33 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

merkel is hesitant to react

It's politics - the rise of nativist populist parties has not helped. The new far-right Alternative for Germany party, which took nearly 13 percent of the vote in the 2017 election, has criticized Merkel’s increased spending on foreign military and diplomatic missions.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/28/merkels-military-revival/

Ironically, it is Trump and his senior advisors (including cast-away Bannon) who have been encouraging far-right Alt. party activists in Europe to disrupt established conservative parties that have been the mainstay of European stability against Russian disruption.

[bristolboy]

39 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

haha cute

I was always politically incorrect(still am), pro free speech(still am), didnt really have a strong opinion on guns either way at the time, pro gay rights at the time(most LGBT issues, not at all anymore), was against illegal immigration(still am), was for separation of church and state and the list goes on.

That clear things up a bit?

So...

"I've held most of those positions before Trump even started his campaign" = 

"I was a liberal when I started considering voting for Trump, many of us were."

Really?