เสีย

loong · February 4, 2007

เสีย sĭa

[ V ] lose ;

[ V ] be rotten ; be bad

[ ADV ] really ; definitely

I sometimes have difficulty knowing where to put this word in a phrase.

เสียใจ sĭa jai [ ADJ ] sad ; upset ; [ V ] be regretful ; be sorry

but

ใจเสีย jai sĭa [ V ] be frightened ; be dejected ; be disheartened ; be discouraged ; be dispirited ; lose heart

Other examples

ู้เสียชีวิต sĭa chee-wít to die

เสียหน้า sĭa nâa [ V ] lose face ; feel ashamed

เสียเวลา sĭa way-laa [ V ] waste time ; lose time

เสียมารยาท sĭa maa-rá-yâat [ V ] misbehave ; misconduct

อารมณ์เสีย aa-rom sĭa [ V ] be upset ; have a bad temper

ท้องเสีย tóng sĭa [ N ] diarrhea ;[ V ] have diarrhea ; have diarrhoea

นิสัยเสีย ní-săi sĭa [ V ] be spoilt ; [ ADJ ] spoilt

I once used มารยาทเสีย maa-rá-yâat sĭa and was corrected to เสียมารยาท sĭa maa-rá-yâat although the way I had said it made perfect sense to me, ie as in lose (forget) one's manners. So easy to get things wrong!

Are there any simple rules to help me to remember whether เสีย is a prefix or suffix?

เสีย แล้ว sĭa láew means, rotten, spoiled, broken etc.......

but can also be used to indicate conclusion of an action. This I find difficult to get my head around.

เขาไปเสียแล้ว kăo bpai sĭa láew He/She has already gone.

A few more examples of this use of เสีย would be welcome. Also is แล้ว always used with เสีย in this manner or can เสีย be used alone to indicate conclusion.

กล้าได้กล้าเสีย glâa dâai glâa sĭa meaning enterprising. Another word that I don't understand the use of เสีย

ช่าง เป็น โลก ที่ งดงาม เสีย นี่ กระไร châang bpen lôhk têe ngót ngaam sĭa nêe grà-rai What a wonderful world!

Here เสีย is used as "Definitely"??

เมื่อ กินข้าว เสร็จ แล้ว ก็ ไป เดินเล่น เสีย ด้วย mêua gin kâao sèt láew gôr bpai dern lên sĭa dûay When you have finished eating, why not go for a walk?

I would like to understand the use of เสีย here. เสียด้วย seems to make the statement into a suggestion.

sĭa is also used by some older people in the North as เสื้อ sêua, just a local dialect thing I think. Probably not spelt the same way though.

My thanks to everyone here who are so willing to share their knowledge

qualtrough · February 4, 2007

กล้าได้กล้าเสีย glâa dâai glâa sĭa meaning enterprising. Another word that I don't understand the use of เสีย

Seems to me that this would be akin to 'Dares to win, dares to lose', which would be an good description of an enterprising individual.

Edited February 4, 2007 by qualtrough

loong · February 4, 2007

Yes, that would make sense Qualtrough

meadish_sweetball · February 4, 2007

It's a notoriously difficult word that really has to be learned in real life to get right.

The meaning 'waste; lose; rotten' is only applicable in certain circumstances. In the cases the word is used at the end of a verb phrase, we are dealing with something else entirely, and it is better to regard that construction as unique without trying to connect it to the 'negative' meaning.

I remember we have discussed the later usage before in the forum, perhaps I will be able to dig up that thread again.

I once used มารยาทเสีย maa-rá-yâat sĭa and was corrected to เสียมารยาท sĭa maa-rá-yâat although the way I had said it made perfect sense to me, ie as in lose (forget) one's manners. So easy to get things wrong!
Are there any simple rules to help me to remember whether เสีย is a prefix or suffix?

There aren't any rules that I know of, I think you will have to memorize the individual expressions. I think most of us are surprised the first time we hear เสียมารยาท because it does seem to use the reverse word order logic to what we have learned to be the standard for Thai. Anyway, since you have said it wrong once now and been corrected, and also discussed it here, I am sure you will not make the same mistake again in this case.

เสีย แล้ว sĭa láew means, rotten, spoiled, broken etc.......
but can also be used to indicate conclusion of an action. This I find difficult to get my head around.

เขาไปเสียแล้ว kăo bpai sĭa láew He/She has already gone.

A few more examples of this use of เสีย would be welcome. Also is แล้ว always used with เสีย in this manner or can เสีย be used alone to indicate conclusion.

This is tricky for me too, so I am out on deep water here, just trying to explain it as I understand it. Hopefully I have not misunderstood:

It should be possible to look at this contrastingly, if we have เขาไปแล้ว and เขาไปเสียแล้ว the latter to me sounds more more final than the former.

เขาไปแล้ว can mean 'he/she/they has/have gone (already)', whereas

เขาไปเสียแล้ว means 'he has gone (already)' (and that's that).

I think...

tgeezer · February 4, 2007

ช่าง เป็น โลก ที่ งดงาม เสีย นี่ กระไร châang bpen lôhk têe ngót ngaam sĭa nêe grà-rai What a wonderful world!

Here เสีย is used as "Definitely"??

เมื่อ กินข้าว เสร็จ แล้ว ก็ ไป เดินเล่น เสีย ด้วย mêua gin kâao sèt láew gôr bpai dern lên sĭa dûay When you have finished eating, why not go for a walk?

Quiet day nothing to do hope I don't butt in. Do you actually say such things to people? I honestly don't want to be a 'smartass', my Thai is as imperfect as anyones and I can understand the words but have no idea of the meaning. I even went to the dictionary and can find ช่าง as "craftsman" a noun but the subject of this sentance would be World wouldn't it? and "to leave alone" as a verb.t I can' get my head round it and for that reason couldn't use it. Both you and Meatball seem to know it so I am interested in how it is constructed. Probably an Idiom.

loong · February 4, 2007

ช่าง เป็น โลก ที่ งดงาม เสีย นี่ กระไร

ช่าง here means "Truly" and is used as an intensifier

ช่าง (insert description, such as beautiful) เสีย นี่ กระไร means "Truly beautiful, very beautiful indeed, how beautiful etc"

In the above example 'the adjective used equates to "Wonderful"

and of course you are not butting in. Any discussion on these points is invaluable in getting things to stay in my head

Thanks Meadish, for your explanations. I look forward to hearing more.

Edited February 4, 2007 by loong

meadish_sweetball · February 4, 2007

ช่าง เป็น โลก ที่ งดงาม เสีย นี่ กระไร

This first example is a literary type construction, and not spoken Thai. I do not understand fully what เสีย นี่ กระไร adds to the statement so I will not speculate about that. As for the first part, it is clear enough:

ช่าง has quite a few different meanings and functions. It is true it can mean 'artisan; specialist; expert; master', and also be used as a prefix denoting different manual professions. It can also be used as 'let it go'; 'leave it alone' but in this sentence, neither of these apply.

In the above, ช่าง is used with the meaning 'very; so; terribly; terrifically' - if we reconstruct it into English as I have attempted below, it is easier to see which part does what grammatically - the words within () are obligatory words in English, but redundant or optional in Thai:

Verily, (it) is (a) world (rel. pronoun i.e. which/that) beautiful [เสีย นี่ กระไร]

Grammatically, โลก 'world' is not the subject of the sentence, rather an invisible มัน similar to the dummy subject 'it' in English, so compare it to the construction 'It definitely/sure is a beautiful world'.

meadish_sweetball · February 4, 2007

http://www.thai-language.com/id/142220

Some more instances of how เสีย shortened to ซะ in the spoken language is used.

qualtrough · February 4, 2007

Here is another one that I don't think has been covered:

เสียตัว

loong · February 4, 2007

เมื่อ กินข้าว เสร็จ แล้ว ก็ ไป เดินเล่น เสีย ด้วย mêua gin kâao sèt láew gôr bpai dern lên sĭa dûay When you have finished eating, why not go for a walk?
I would like to understand the use of เสีย here. เสียด้วย seems to make the statement into a suggestion.

No one can help me on this one yet?

Here is another one that I don't think has been covered:
เสียตัว

I covered that one long ago

In the Rai! · February 5, 2007

เมื่อ กินข้าว เสร็จ แล้ว ก็ ไป เดินเล่น เสีย ด้วย mêua gin kâao sèt láew gôr bpai dern lên sĭa dûay When you have finished eating, why not go for a walk?
I would like to understand the use of เสีย here. เสียด้วย seems to make the statement into a suggestion.

No one can help me on this one yet?
Here is another one that I don't think has been covered:
เสียตัว

I covered that one long ago

You lucky bugger....

sabaijai · February 7, 2007

เสีย sĭa
[ V ] lose ;

[ V ] be rotten ; be bad

[ ADV ] really ; definitely

I sometimes have difficulty knowing where to put this word in a phrase.

เสียใจ sĭa jai [ ADJ ] sad ; upset ; [ V ] be regretful ; be sorry

but

ใจเสีย jai sĭa [ V ] be frightened ; be dejected ; be disheartened ; be discouraged ; be dispirited ; lose heart

Other examples

ู้เสียชีวิต sĭa chee-wít to die

เสียหน้า sĭa nâa [ V ] lose face ; feel ashamed

เสียเวลา sĭa way-laa [ V ] waste time ; lose time

เสียมารยาท sĭa maa-rá-yâat [ V ] misbehave ; misconduct

อารมณ์เสีย aa-rom sĭa [ V ] be upset ; have a bad temper

ท้องเสีย tóng sĭa [ N ] diarrhea ;[ V ] have diarrhea ; have diarrhoea

นิสัยเสีย ní-săi sĭa [ V ] be spoilt ; [ ADJ ] spoilt

I once used มารยาทเสีย maa-rá-yâat sĭa and was corrected to เสียมารยาท sĭa maa-rá-yâat although the way I had said it made perfect sense to me, ie as in lose (forget) one's manners. So easy to get things wrong!

Are there any simple rules to help me to remember whether เสีย is a prefix or suffix?

เสีย แล้ว sĭa láew means, rotten, spoiled, broken etc.......

but can also be used to indicate conclusion of an action. This I find difficult to get my head around.

เขาไปเสียแล้ว kăo bpai sĭa láew He/She has already gone.

A few more examples of this use of เสีย would be welcome. Also is แล้ว always used with เสีย in this manner or can เสีย be used alone to indicate conclusion.

กล้าได้กล้าเสีย glâa dâai glâa sĭa meaning enterprising. Another word that I don't understand the use of เสีย

ช่าง เป็น โลก ที่ งดงาม เสีย นี่ กระไร châang bpen lôhk têe ngót ngaam sĭa nêe grà-rai What a wonderful world!

Here เสีย is used as "Definitely"??

เมื่อ กินข้าว เสร็จ แล้ว ก็ ไป เดินเล่น เสีย ด้วย mêua gin kâao sèt láew gôr bpai dern lên sĭa dûay When you have finished eating, why not go for a walk?

I would like to understand the use of เสีย here. เสียด้วย seems to make the statement into a suggestion.

sĭa is also used by some older people in the North as เสื้อ sêua, just a local dialect thing I think. Probably not spelt the same way though.

My thanks to everyone here who are so willing to share their knowledge

I think it's quite simple knowing whether to place it before or after. If there's an unspoken doer of the action, then เสีย comes before the other word, i.e., the object. When the other word is the subject, than เสีย comes after. Maybe related to transitive vs intransitive in a way.

Using your examples:

เสียชีวิต [someone] sĭa chee-wít to die

เสียหน้า [someone] sĭa nâa [ V ] lose face ; feel ashamed

เสียเวลา [someone] sĭa way-laa [ V ] waste time ; lose time

เสียมารยาท [someone] sĭa maa-rá-yâat [ V ] misbehave ; misconduct

อารมณ์เสีย aa-rom sĭa (ie, mood spoilt) [ V ] be upset ; have a bad temper

ท้องเสีย tóng sĭa (ie, stomach spoilt) [ N ] diarrhea ;[ V ] have diarrhea ; have diarrhoea

นิสัยเสีย ní-săi sĭa (ie, character spoilt) [ V ] be spoilt ; [ ADJ ] spoilt

At least this is how I look at it. Of course there are occasional ambiguities. If I break a guitar string, I still have to say สายขาด even though it implies the string broke itself (vaguely comforting ... ) Guess English offers both ways ('I broke a string' or 'A string broke').

loong · February 7, 2007

เสียชีวิต [someone] sĭa chee-wít to die

A little off the point but How would you say "He is wasting his life"? Would you add อยู่..............เสียชีวิตอยู่.....to make it obvious that life is still going on, or would you use a different word altogether?

thanks

Edward B · February 7, 2007

A little off the point but How would you say "He is wasting his life"? Would you add อยู่..............เสียชีวิตอยู่.....to make it obvious that life is still going on, or would you use a different word altogether?

I think a different word altogether, but I haven't got the foggiest idea which one

เขาใชัชีวิตของเขา <insert here> อยู่

but I don't think the word to insert can be เสีย. Perhaps something more along the lines of...

เขาใชัชีวิตไปเป็นวัน ๆ - He is living his life day to day. Or;

เขาใชัชีวิตอย่างไร้ค่า - He is living his life like it has no value/meaning.

Just my 2 cents...

meadish_sweetball · February 7, 2007

เปลืองชีวิตของตัวเอง ...?

ไช้ชีวิตของตัวเองอย่างสิ้นเปลือง ...?

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