Removing an old spirit house

[CardSenseJimmyBond]

I know that some people might think I am wrong for wanting to do so but, having bought a second-hand house, I want to remove the faded,  dilapidated spirit house in the garden. 

 

I don't begrudge other people for having them but, without wanting to sound arrogant, they aren't for me.  I wouldn't want a Christian, Taoist, or likewise monument either.  I don't believe in luck or fate, so have (again, with respect) no interest in whether a ghost has a problem with removing it.  I am also aware people might be displeased by it; however, I strongly believe in individual choice, without enforcing it on others.

 

I know some people feel one should keep the old one and put a new spirit house up to join it- obviously I would not see this as a solution!  I am after practical advice of how, or where, to dispose of it. Can it be easily donated to someone who would want it? 

 

From googling, it seems you can't just throw them away; you can ask a temple to take them, which may involve a complex ceremony which I would prefer to avoid. Does anyone have any experience of this?  

[55Jay]

There's an open field near where I live and as they do, Thais use it as an unofficial middle of the night dump site to avoid paying a bit of money to dump at the real one.  I've seen a few  busted up "spirit houses" out there some time ago, and once, noted a few thrown into bushes along side a country road.   

 

I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle about it and worse, set a precedent that you'll go along with this superstitious nonsense. 

 

Or just lie and make up a lovely sounding story like Thais would to whitewash the less sexy idea that they're just getting rid of some shit they don't want anymore.  I suggest you say you're making a home for homeless, starving birds, paralyzed from the wings down.  The more tragic and sappy it is, the better.  You'll be a hero!

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/discarded-spirit-houses-turned-artificial-reefs/

[keeniau96]

We installed a very nice spirit house at our new construction house about 10 years ago. I have absolutely no faith or use for superstition of any religion, but it made my Thai wife feel very good and no skin off my butt (but plenty of hassle if I did not).

[BobBKK]

I removed one and the best advice is YOU don't do it. Talk to locals and maybe Poo Yai Baan and pay them to do it for you.  

 

(they will do some mumbo jumbo 'ceremony' to take the spirits to another place - no don't ask 'where' but it keeps them and the village happy, if not, and there is a misfortune you might get the blame)

Edited July 14, 2018 by BobBKK

[sirineou]

I say, When in Rome do as the Romans do.

 Don't believe in these things also but wife does. and I am more concerned keeping my wife happy . 

If you are married and or have a Thai family DONT DO IT!!!

everything bad happening from then on would be your fault. 

Fix it up, make it look nice, make it another Thai decoration and a conversation piece for when friends from back home come to visit.  

Principles are fine, but have you ever tried taking a principle to bed? LOL

[CardSenseJimmyBond]

11 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I removed one and the best advice is YOU don't do it. Talk to locals and maybe Poo Yai Baan and pay them to do it for you.  

 

(they will do some mumbo jumbo 'ceremony' to take the spirits to another place - no don't ask 'where' but it keeps them and the village happy, if not, and there is a misfortune you might get the blame)

Actually a little unfortunate- I removed all of the paraphrenalia from inside and dumped it already (it was a right mess), so all that is left is now a (bloody heavy) spirit house and column, with nothing inside the house at all. Would this be a problem or have I culturally s@#% the bed? 

[BobBKK]

Just now, CardSenseJimmyBond said:

Actually a little unfortunate- I removed all of the paraphrenalia from inside and dumped it already (it was a right mess), so all that is left is now a (bloody heavy) spirit house and column, with nothing inside the house at all. Would this be a problem or have I culturally s@#% the bed? 

 

Ahhh... well you have 'disturbed' them now (silly farang)  but i think if you halt now and get the locals to move it and they ask what happened inside just look innocent and say 'mai rue'. 

They will still be ok I think as you have not moved the main structure (wave five 100 baht notes should ease their inquisitiveness).

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, CardSenseJimmyBond said:

Actually a little unfortunate- I removed all of the paraphrenalia from inside and dumped it already (it was a right mess), so all that is left is now a (bloody heavy) spirit house and column, with nothing inside the house at all. Would this be a problem or have I culturally s@#% the bed? 

 Put some new paraphernalia in, who would know? if anyone inquiries claim that you respected the tradition so much  you upgraded the spirits to more Deluxe accommodations.

PS: don't rely on my advise , what the heck do I know about these matters.

By the way, wife puts food by ours, and the neighbors chickens  used to (before we build a big wall  bigger than Trump's wall) come and eat it. I would always tell the wife that the Chickens were probably possessed by the spirits. It always got me a spank on the head, in time i learned to like it. LOL 

[thequietman]

Just drop it off at the local temple. Take care when off loading it and all will be fine. Just happened to me only this week.

 

It needs to go the temple or your neighbours will say you will get bad luck. It's all <deleted> but when in Rome and all that.

[CardSenseJimmyBond]

27 minutes ago, thequietman said:

Just drop it off at the local temple. Take care when off loading it and all will be fine. Just happened to me only this week.

 

It needs to go the temple or your neighbours will say you will get bad luck. It's all <deleted> but when in Rome and all that.

Sounds good- did the temple you dropped it off at say anything, and did you have to let them know first?  A little worried if I let them know then they a) refuse or b) insist on a costly ceremony. Do you think it is better to just turn up so they can't really say no?

[BobBKK]

45 minutes ago, CardSenseJimmyBond said:

Sounds good- did the temple you dropped it off at say anything, and did you have to let them know first?  A little worried if I let them know then they a) refuse or b) insist on a costly ceremony. Do you think it is better to just turn up so they can't really say no?

I don't like to push this, but I am only trying to help, I would strongly suggest you involve the Pu Yai Baan and ASK.

 

You go dropping off without permission etc. and you get seen you will not be treated the same as a Thai and all sorts of disrespect could be leveled at you. You might get away with it but it's not what I would do but 'up to you'. Disrespect the 'spirits' of the village at your peril.

[thequietman]

1 hour ago, CardSenseJimmyBond said:

Sounds good- did the temple you dropped it off at say anything, and did you have to let them know first?  A little worried if I let them know then they a) refuse or b) insist on a costly ceremony. Do you think it is better to just turn up so they can't really say no?

Spoke with the wife about this. There will be a nominated space in the temple for old spirit houses. Just drop it off there. There is no need to ask permission she said. Generally, you will find other ones under a nominated tree or something. Just drop it off but take it off the truck respectfully and place it there and then off you go. If there's a donation box. stick 20 baht in for show. After all - that's what it is all about anyway.

[ChouDoufu]

not offering advice, just observations....

 

have cycled many tens of thousands of kilometers thru thailand, and seems every small town or village has a few spots along the back roads where the locals dump old spirit houses.  doesn't appear to have been done with any ceremony, just stop the pickup long enough to chuck the items in the ditch, sometimes with all the little zebra and chicken statues still inside.

 

not that the results at the temples are any different.  wander around the back areas of temples, or in the woods surrounding them, and often run across the same piles.

[grollies]

5 hours ago, CardSenseJimmyBond said:

Actually a little unfortunate- I removed all of the paraphrenalia from inside and dumped it already (it was a right mess), so all that is left is now a (bloody heavy) spirit house and column, with nothing inside the house at all. Would this be a problem or have I culturally s@#% the bed? 

Yes, you have culturally s@#% the bed.

 

Assuming you don't have a Thai wife/gf as there is no way she would have let you do this.

 

If you're not religious/superstitious, what's your problem? Just dump it at the roadside one night like others have said.

 

I for one would not have disturbed it at all without advice. But I believe and respect this stuff. It's my personal belief so leave that there.

 

To the member whose chooks eat the offerings, your spirits have left the house. You're wife should know that though.

 

 

[cyberfarang]

11 hours ago, CardSenseJimmyBond said:

Sounds good- did the temple you dropped it off at say anything, and did you have to let them know first?  A little worried if I let them know then they a) refuse or b) insist on a costly ceremony. Do you think it is better to just turn up so they can't really say no?

Personally, I wouldn`t do anything about this without going through the proper procedure. Just wouldn`t. But if you`re willing to take the chance.......

[George Bowman]

Our first spirit house was built out of wood and it looked like a young girl’s fancy doll house. But after a few years of Mother Nature toiling away at the structure, it needed to be replaced and a new concrete house was installed.

 

During the initial build and the remodel phase, an expert was called in to provide guidance. One of the first things he did was test the fire alarm system by lighting candles and placing them near the house.

 

The professional then assigned certain people to specific rooms they were to live in. And apparently, I had not power washed the house properly because the rooms still had an odor that lingered. But, by lighting incense it was hoped that the house would soon smell fresh.

 

Finally, the knowledgeable man began to speak about the house. I think it must have been his way of keeping notes as he mostly talked to himself.

 

A party spread was then laid out. There was pork, plenty of fruits and even whisky and cigarettes. But, I guess people were not in the mood, as nothing was touched.

 

Come to find out, the old house was not in that bad of shape. It was donated to a poor spirit community that lived on the side of the road next to a temple…

Edited July 14, 2018 by missoura

[Antonymous]

When I moved into a rented house with a big spirit house the first thing I did was to get rid of it. I was on a long term lease and I asked the owner's permission first (of course). The owner had no problem with that and arranged for one local monk to come round to do whatever they do (apologise to the spirits and ask their permission to relocate I guess) and a couple of guys he came with took it away. I don't know where they took it to.

 

It isn't a big deal to arrange, but to be on the 'safe' side, whatever your beliefs, probably best to have it removed in the right way, by local people. Your puyaibaan or local monk will know what to do.

 

And by the way I lived happily in that house for more than 10 years before buying a place elsewhere and had no nasty ghost surprises or mishaps as a result of getting rid of the spirit house!

[crazykopite]

If it’s not to big why not dig a big hole where it is sited and place it in the ground that way no offence would be caused and if there are any spirits around I am sure they wouldn’t be to upset , just a thoughts ?

[crazykopite]

Mr Jameson lives in my house he is a wonderful spirit and he appears every night at around 10 pm and gives me my nightcap just before I lay my head to rest I don’t know what I would do without him . Long live the Spirits ?

[peterb17]

15 hours ago, grollies said:

Yes, you have culturally s@#% the bed.

 

Assuming you don't have a Thai wife/gf as there is no way she would have let you do this.

 

If you're not religious/superstitious, what's your problem? Just dump it at the roadside one night like others have said.

 

I for one would not have disturbed it at all without advice. But I believe and respect this stuff. It's my personal belief so leave that there.

 

To the member whose chooks eat the offerings, your spirits have left the house. You're wife should know that though.

 

 

Absolutely agree with - the OP should have not removed anything - all those weird things you find in a spirit house are important.

 

Weirdly although I don’t really believe in all this stuff - I feel we have to respect the beliefs of our adopted country- the concept of ghosts ( the bf is hooked on ghost radio and told me yesterday there was a black? Ghost outside ) , spirits in logs , etc etc - are totally ingrained in Thai culture.

 

As ever - we should never try to think in a Western way - go with the flow - perhaps you should not upset the spirits ? 

[jgarbo]

On 7/14/2018 at 1:29 PM, 55Jay said:

There's an open field near where I live and as they do, Thais use it as an unofficial middle of the night dump site to avoid paying a bit of money to dump at the real one.  I've seen a few  busted up "spirit houses" out there some time ago, and once, noted a few thrown into bushes along side a country road.   

 

I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle about it and worse, set a precedent that you'll go along with this superstitious nonsense. 

 

Or just lie and make up a lovely sounding story like Thais would to whitewash the less sexy idea that they're just getting rid of some shit they don't want anymore.  I suggest you say you're making a home for homeless, starving birds, paralyzed from the wings down.  The more tragic and sappy it is, the better.  You'll be a hero!

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/discarded-spirit-houses-turned-artificial-reefs/

Thais have their "superstitions" about Animinist spirit houses - they're not Buddhist - just like superstitious Christian nonsense like Crosses and praying to the sky! Would you kick over a Catholic crucifix or criticize the Pope for his useless blessings? 

 So, pay 9 monks to cleanse the spirit house and "bury" it, then pay some more for a new one blessed by 9 monks. Your neighbors will be happy, family will respect you,  burglars will run away and harmony will reign. 

Or act like a redneck farang and suffer. 

[digbeth]

Normally the dumping ground would be a T junction somewhere(it's a superstition), best to look for where the locals already dumped theirs

[khunPer]

On 7/14/2018 at 7:59 AM, CardSenseJimmyBond said:

From googling, it seems you can't just throw them away

No, you can't, but you can place a worn out spirit house – or have it placed by some – in a spirit house graveyard, often in a wood, or at the side of a road passing through an area with threes.

 

Photo from a road the locals named "Ghost Road", Koh Samui, because of the worn out spirit houses.

 

Quote

Can it be easily donated to someone who would want it? 

I presume not, as "someone" might take over your spirits – they might still be in the house – and the spirits might not be happy at all with being moved. I've noticed, that by some of the worn out spirit houses in the said graveyard, fresh offerings are still placed.

 

Fresh beverage are still placed by worn out spirits houses in the "graveyard".

 

Even you are not superstitious at all – like probably most of us farang expats living here – you should in my opinion, show the local community that respect a removal of an old spirit house deserves; you should actually place a new, and just let it be a nice natural part of your garden.

 

You'll need a local shaman, or monks from the temple, to advise you on how to remove, and eventually replace the spirit house. It will involve a ceremony that, even you don't believe in the existence of these beings, is a great (positive) experience to be part in, or just watch.

 

A shaman in work for having spirits to move into their new homes – from a ceremony at a new foreign owned restaurant at Koh Samui – there are normally two houses, one for the spirits of the land, and on the spirits of the house; the house you for example live, so you won't be disturbed by "poltergeists".

 

The reason for my opinion is that you sound like, you're going to live in the area. What if "your" spirits begin to haunt other villagers, because you removed the spirit's home, and didn't give them a new one to stay in. The villagers around you might have a much stronger faith in "supernatural beings" than you, these beings might even be very real for them. I'm pretty sure you could gain a lot of points in the local community by acting accordingly to the ghost etiquette...?

 

And by the way, I'm also not superstitious – nor my Thai girlfriend – but I did invest in two beautiful wooden spirit homes from Chiang Mai, and I enjoy to look at them, every day; and when the one day are worn out, I'll order a new pair, and if not for the spirits, then for my own pleasure...?

[Ebumbu]

Very amusing thread. 

[The Theory]

Don’t forget a 30 day notice before removing the house. 

[dictater]

there are tons of sighs where people dump old spirit houses, normally around a Bodhi tree. Like many Thai customs, you might get a lot of backlash if you cart it off but Thai's will dump them off the back of their pickup trucks like any other piece of garbage. 

[connda]

You can see old 'spirit house junk yards' along road throughout Thailand.  You pick it up and dump it with the others.  They won't mind, they are all with their friends.  By the way, this is Animism.  If you are an Animist, well, consult your local Animist and ancestor-worshipping puuyai.  If you're Buddhist, it has nothing to do with Buddhism.

[thaibeachlovers]

If you live near Lamphun, just put it at the top of the hill on the Lampang road with all the hundreds of other ones.

[connda]

6 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Mr Jameson lives in my house he is a wonderful spirit and he appears every night at around 10 pm and gives me my nightcap just before I lay my head to rest I don’t know what I would do without him . Long live the Spirits ?

Mr. J. Walker tends to help with sleepy time just before the bewitching hours.  Zzzzzzz.

[55Jay]

8 minutes ago, jgarbo said:

Thais have their "superstitions" about Animinist spirit houses - they're not Buddhist - just like superstitious Christian nonsense like Crosses and praying to the sky! Would you kick over a Catholic crucifix or criticize the Pope for his useless blessings? 

 So, pay 9 monks to cleanse the spirit house and "bury" it, then pay some more for a new one blessed by 9 monks. Your neighbors will be happy, family will respect you,  burglars will run away and harmony will reign. 

Or act like a redneck farang and suffer. 

Man Oh Man, you really know how to hit below the belt!  I was upset for like..... zero seconds.  

 

I did, however, consult with a higher power - my dog - and he confirmed it was all a load of horsepucky and that you were just lashing out at the white man.  Again.

 

Anyway, we don't have a spirit house or lions on the ramparts.  My immediate Thai neighbors don't either, which makes ME happy knowing they aren't bat shit crazy.

 

As far as mutual happiness, well, I'm pretty sure my level of concern for their happiness is equivalent to theirs for mine.  

 

Despite that, the Mrs. and I get along just fine with the neighbors.  Wave/say Hi now and then.  Trade kanom.  Cooperate when necessary.  Hell, I even cut their street weeds when I do mine, cause I'm already out there, and that's just the kinda guy I am.  That's actually not "the" reason.  The truth doesn't flatter them and being they're Thai, I suspect you'll get butt hurt again if I speak the truth. So I won't.