One disaster and a close shave - Thailand's health and safety record

[kwilco]

With the Chinese boat disaster at Phuket and the boys caught in the cave, surely Thailand - a country that relies on 30 million tourists a year for a sizeable part of national income - be more concerned about the health and safety issues concomitant with a large tourism industry?

 

[NanLaew]

No, not really.

 

Next?

[oldrunner]

Even if boat captains direct passengers don life jackets, I'll venture that a large number would disdain wearing them as is hides their "beautiful" bodies, sort of like wearing a helmet while driving/riding on motorcycles. By the way, do any stores carry "baby" helmets?

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by oldrunner
spacing

[PizzaLover5]

1 hour ago, oldrunner said:

Even if boat captains direct passengers don life jackets, I'll venture that a large number would disdain wearing them as is hides their "beautiful" bodies, sort of like wearing a helmet while driving/riding on motorcycles. By the way, do any stores carry "baby" helmets?

 

Hardly ever see a child with a helmet, apparently they don't make them for babies(only custom). I can't believe the amount of riders, both foreign and Thai that drive with little babies and no protection ? 

[Shaunduhpostman]

Being concerned about anything is generally not encouraged or valued, so that is where it starts and ends. That attitude developed for perhaps good reasons, so I am not bashing Thailand and I like the attitude as much as it drives me nuts at times. For the most part Thai institutions  care little about the health and welfare of their own, patriotism and xenophobia are an easy substitute so caring about tourists is  a non-starter. If you stay here long enough, you'll see the problems in these areas are ubiquitous, its not just about boat safety or common sense about not venturing 2 kilometers inside of a cave or all of the issues connected to tourism. People here are allowed and not generally criticized for doing things that fly in the face of cause and effect or even harm others who are uninvolved. Thinking ahead is seemingly discouraged as well, a whole book could be written on what goes on here and why and what could be done if anything.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Shaunduhpostman

[Lacessit]

You can't legislate safety. Everyone is responsible for their own safety. Look on it as a Darwinian selection process for those who ignore the first two sentences.

[Formaleins]

It has never bothered them before, why start now. Hell, they can't even be bothered to stop the annual cull of their own people during Song Kran, why would they care about foreigners?

[kwilco]

I see that rather than offering any practical advice oron solutions most contributors prefer toto resortthe to racist style Thai bashing and anecdotal regurgitation instead.

 

 

[kwilco]

8 hours ago, Formaleins said:

It has never bothered them before, why start now. Hell, they can't even be bothered to stop the annual cull of their own people during Song Kran, why would they care about foreigners?

You referring to the road death rate, which is actually  lower over Song Khran?

Like many posts here, why let the evidence get in the way of an opportunity for a racist attack on Thai people,?

[kwilco]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You can't legislate safety. Everyone is responsible for their own safety. Look on it as a Darwinian selection process for those who ignore the first two sentences.

Sadly that, isnt true....You appear to be evidence of that....despite your limited understanding, safety legislation has protected you so far yet you are apparently totally unaware of it.

[kwilco]

20 hours ago, NanLaew said:

No, not really.

 

Next?

One has to conclude that your misguided attempt at wit is an attempt to cover up a lack of anything constructive to say of the subject,?

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

Sadly that, isnt true....You appear to be evidence of that....despite your limited understanding, safety legislation has protected you so far yet you are apparently totally unaware of it.

That is the universal response of the OH&S bureaucrats who want to defend their employment empire.

The basic truth is unless one can get the safety mindset ingrained in a person's psyche, no amount of legislation will protect them from their risk-taking behaviours.

It's a pity you have resorted to personal insults, because we might have had an intelligent discussion otherwise.

[joebrown]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

You referring to the road death rate, which is actually  lower over Song Khran?

Like many posts here, why let the evidence get in the way of an opportunity for a racist attack on Thai people,?

It's possible the poster you replied to used Songkran as a bad example to illustrate his point. Maybe your 'rose tinted' glasses got inthe way of the 'evidence' which is that Thailand is No. 2 (may now be No. 1) in the world for annual road deaths.

If you agree, what do you suggest the Thai government & police do to remedy this appalling statistic, apart from having the usual 'crackdown'?

[kwilco]

22 hours ago, Lacessit said:

That is the universal response of the OH&S bureaucrats who want to defend their employment empire.

The basic truth is unless one can get the safety mindset ingrained in a person's psyche, no amount of legislation will protect them from their risk-taking behaviours.

It's a pity you have resorted to personal insults, because we might have had an intelligent discussion otherwise.

So your "mind set" will build safe roads and factories,bridges that don't collapse and safety teams and effective healthcare?

[Rally123]

On 7/16/2018 at 7:54 PM, Lacessit said:

You can't legislate safety.

Yes you can but it all boils down to the police to enforce it.

 

Quote

 

ROAD SAFETY

Proposed ban on young pillion riders sparks outrage

13/03/2015 
Post Reporters 

Parents and motorcyclists have expressed disagreement with the Office of Consumer Protection's (OCP's) proposed plan to ban young pillion passengers from riding on motorcycles. (See another article on the debate over the ban here ). 

The plan is drawing the ire of parents and motorcyclists, saying motorcycles are the best mode of transport in the city and an ideal choice for people who cannot affordcars. 

They expressed their views Thursday after an OCP executive meeting on Wednesday. It was decided at the meeting that relevant state agencies be urged to help push for the ban.  

Weerachai Chomsakorn, deputy secretary-general of the OCP, said meeting attendeeshad agreed to ban pillion passengers under the age of six from riding on motorcycles. 

The move is in response to an increasing number of motorcycle accidents leaving children injured and killed, he said.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-news/496577/motorcycle-ban-for-young-children-sparks-debate

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

So your "mind set" will build safe roads and factories,bridges that don't collapse and safety teams and effective healthcare?

You are missing my point entirely. You can have excellent roads, vehicles with all the bells and whistles of ABS, EBD, ESC, airbags etc. None of those will protect an individual who chooses to drink too much alcohol, and drive through a red light at 90 km/hr.

Perhaps if you did some reading of Du Pont's safety history, you would be able to see where I am coming from.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Lacessit

[5633572526]

On 7/16/2018 at 7:54 PM, Lacessit said:

You can't legislate safety. Everyone is responsible for their own safety. Look on it as a Darwinian selection process for those who ignore the first two sentences.

You can legislate safety if you have enforcement. Seat belt laws and helmet laws are legislated safety. These however are useless without enforcement.

[Lacessit]

24 minutes ago, 5633572526 said:

You can legislate safety if you have enforcement. Seat belt laws and helmet laws are legislated safety. These however are useless without enforcement.

Seat belts and helmet laws are subject to a double standard in Thailand. If you are a Thai not wearing a helmet, 200 baht. IF they have the money. For a farang, 500 baht. No ifs there.

Enforcement might work in Thailand if the penalty was confiscation of the bike. In that case, there would probably be more fatalities from people doing a runner. So legislated penalties could end up as a double-edged sword.

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You are missing my point entirely. You can have excellent roads, vehicles with all the bells and whistles of ABS, EBD, ESC, airbags etc. None of those will protect an individual who chooses to drink too much alcohol, and drive through a red light at 90 km/hr.

Perhaps if you did some reading of Du Pont's safety history, you would be able to see where I am coming from.

Actually that is precisely what they do - but do you seriously think that is the only thing that health and safety entails?

It is a sad truth that people are so ignorant of the subject's range that they fail to realise how much they themselves are protected by health and safety legislation .....

 

it is also a sad facet of the hard right that they think enforcement by police or military is the only approach to making H & S work - which is just another example of how little they understand the issues involved.

[kwilco]

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Seat belts and helmet laws are subject to a double standard in Thailand. If you are a Thai not wearing a helmet, 200 baht. IF they have the money. For a farang, 500 baht. No ifs there.

Enforcement might work in Thailand if the penalty was confiscation of the bike. In that case, there would probably be more fatalities from people doing a runner. So legislated penalties could end up as a double-edged sword.

how do you think this affects health and safety in Thailand?

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

how do you think this affects health and safety in Thailand?

You seem to think you are the only person on this thread that has a valid opinion, PLUS being insulting. I'll leave you to it.

[Rimmer]

A couple of troll posts generally bashing other members of the forum have been removed:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.
 

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You seem to think you are the only person on this thread that has a valid opinion, PLUS being insulting. I'll leave you to it.

QED

[kwilco]

respect is something you earn, not get reardless

[RocketDog]

On 7/16/2018 at 5:13 AM, Shaunduhpostman said:

Being concerned about anything is generally not encouraged or valued, so that is where it starts and ends. That attitude developed for perhaps good reasons, so I am not bashing Thailand and I like the attitude as much as it drives me nuts at times. For the most part Thai institutions  care little about the health and welfare of their own, patriotism and xenophobia are an easy substitute so caring about tourists is  a non-starter. If you stay here long enough, you'll see the problems in these areas are ubiquitous, its not just about boat safety or common sense about not venturing 2 kilometers inside of a cave or all of the issues connected to tourism. People here are allowed and not generally criticized for doing things that fly in the face of cause and effect or even harm others who are uninvolved. Thinking ahead is seemingly discouraged as well, a whole book could be written on what goes on here and why and what could be done if anything.

Thank you. You summarized what many on TVF call "Thai-ness" very succinctly.

I as you, am of two minds on these issues; torn between disdain and admiration for these Thai traits.

 

In fact though since I've retired here I'm migrating inexorably toward more emphasis on today and less on the future. I still refuse to do welding with sunglasses or no eye protection at all, or spray pesticides without a face mask.. Call it a stubborn personal preference. ?

 

Foresight is not the same as worry of the future, but this is a distinction of thought that seems beyond the general population in Thailand.

 

Even with all the warts Thailand is a country that I enjoy Iiving in. Warts are preferable to the ugly face of repression, surveillance , taxation, and regulation  (personified by The Grand Cheeto)  displayed by my home country..

 

Yes, I have assets at home that I travel annually to manage, but I don't anticipate ever living there for very long from here out.

[LongTimeLurker]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/china-boycott-calls-could-cause-1-billion-hit-thailand-economy-2018-7

 

[kwilco]

IO notice even Rimmer has taken up the cause....

 

 

[The manic]

On 7/16/2018 at 3:09 PM, oldrunner said:

Even if boat captains direct passengers don life jackets, I'll venture that a large number would disdain wearing them as is hides their "beautiful" bodies, sort of like wearing a helmet while driving/riding on motorcycles. By the way, do any stores carry "baby" helmets?

 

When I  travelled to Koh Lan from Bali Hai pier on the big boat  Everybody was forced to wear a life jacket...even the reluctant macho Russians.  Everybody was checked thoroughly before we set off. When I travelled  their 20 years ago by speed boat we were also issued with life jackets.

[kannot]

On 7/17/2018 at 6:04 AM, kwilco said:

I see that rather than offering any practical advice oron solutions most contributors prefer toto resortthe to racist style Thai bashing and anecdotal regurgitation instead.

 

 

Ive been  looking all day still havent seen yours

[kwilco]

On 7/21/2018 at 1:41 AM, kannot said:

Ive been  looking all day still havent seen yours

QED