Thailand not seen as safe tourist destination until it fixes problems: Weerasak

[The manic]

1 hour ago, balo said:

 

Sounds great, only problem is there are none.   No international standards in Thailand.

 

In my country Norway , one of the leading shipbuilders in the world,  not one of those cheap boats made in China would be approved for any passenger traffic. 

The real quality ones are just too expensive  to buy for the tour operators so they are stuck with the cheap ones. 

 

International standards ? Forget it. 

 

 

  

 

 

 

High standards Low population,  oil wealth but a tedious smug people, Nanny state, and very expensive. Alcoholic tendencies. Feminazis. High taxes.There's a trade off. Stay in safe,dull expensive norway or live a life of fun and adventure....Here.

[The manic]

On 7/18/2018 at 7:02 AM, PatOngo said:

I think a storytelling competition would be a great solution to this dilemma...……...Tell us just how great a tourist destination this place is. Just don't mention boats, highways, busses, minivans, ladyboys, cops, caves...…...etc.....You get the picture!

The story is told by the millions of visitors,  repeat visitors and people who cannot stay long enough but want to... We all love the place. 

[The manic]

On 7/19/2018 at 8:34 AM, mikebell said:

I agree totally with Saladin.  Substitute any Thai city for Chang Mai and the size of the problem is apparent to all intelligent, uncorrupted beings which excuses 95% of BIB.  In Pattaya two weeks ago, there were TWO Bandit Blocks in four kilometres on the same road.

What you omit is that in CM all night life finishes after 11pm. So a few boy racers are irrelevant.  They are leaving town....not just arriving to start their night. CM is the most depressing city in Thailand. Poor,broke people under the lash of the authorities. With no hope. 

[JohnThailandJohn]

If they keep "improving" things then there will be no reason for tourists to come to Thailand

[balo]

1 hour ago, The manic said:

High standards Low population,  oil wealth but a tedious smug people, Nanny state, and very expensive. Alcoholic tendencies. Feminazis. High taxes.There's a trade off. Stay in safe,dull expensive norway or live a life of fun and adventure....Here.

You're missing the point completely here.or you're just trolling. 

 

I talked about international standards with certifications and safety standards that all countries has to follow, at least in the western world.

, Norway export their boats worldwide, but none of them are seen in a low cost country. Too expensive compared with the Chinese built. 

 

And I am not saying all the Chinese built boats are crap, but again , the buyers want to keep their costs down so they continue buying the cheap boats. 

 

 

[AdamTheFarang]

People might not recognise it a first but part of the "charm" of Thailand is the informality and "taking care" of you without all the regulations of a developed country. If it was so regulated a lot of tourists would go to another Asian country. Thailand is too expensive already and more regulations would make it even more expensive. In any case Thais do not focus on safety I have seen the expression time and time again when my time is finished it is my time. Calm but maybe not looked at in the same way. I mean look at the electric cables every where in monsoons. Many houses do not even have Ground/Earth only 2 pin electrical system with basic fuses no residual current cutoff. I could go on and on.

[impulse]

23 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Thailand is relatively safe, as long as you stay at home. If you venture out of your home, the roads are deadly. So, you have to be extremely aware at all times, when driving. If you are walking on the sidewalk in a place like Samui, you have to be constantly aware of low hanging signs, that can cut your head wide open. Also, same goes for the sidewalks. They are a hazard. I driving a motorbike on Samui or Phuket, do so with extreme caution, and only if you have many years of driving experience. Alot of tourists return home in wooden boxes, after a vacation on Samui or Phuket. 

 

My advice to anyone visiting Thailand is, if you are here in the rainy season, do not even consider going on any boat trips or diving. Avoid any bungee jumping, zip lines, or anything that requires experts to assemble. There is little in the way of safety standards, and you cannot count on the authorities to enforce safety standards. You cannot count on the police, in the event of an emergency, as 90% of them are compromised, and are revenue collection agents, posing as policemen. Make sure you have good health insurance, or an accident policy, as the private hospitals will not take you in without that.

 

The one fortunate part about living here, or visiting Thailand is the people. As long as you keep your nose clean, are respectful toward the people, and do not do anything really stupid, the people are cool. Thais are not violent for the most part, and the ones who are, inflict their violence on other Thais, and rarely on foreigners. I feel much safer here, than in the US, where violence and gun deaths are rampant. 

 

The reality is that even a crazy dangerous place has an annual premature death rate in the XXX per million range.  So most of us will not be victims.  Even those staying for 50 years may only have a one in 10 chance of becoming a fatality before our time.

 

On a comparative basis, the statistics may look terrible.  But on a real life, "how does this affect me?" basis, it's better to just keep your wits about you, avoid high risk activities and enjoy life.

 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

The reality is that even a crazy dangerous place has an annual premature death rate in the XXX per million range.  So most of us will not be victims.  Even those staying for 50 years may only have a one in 10 chance of becoming a fatality before our time.

 

On a comparative basis, the statistics may look terrible.  But on a real life, "how does this affect me?" basis, it's better to just keep your wits about you, avoid high risk activities and enjoy life.

 

Thailand has a comparable murder rate as in the US. But here it is less random than in the US. And here it is Thai on Thai, 98% of the time. So, for most of us, it is quite safe, until we hit the highways! 

[impulse]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Thailand has a comparable murder rate as in the US. But here it is less random than in the US. And here it is Thai on Thai, 98% of the time. So, for most of us, it is quite safe, until we hit the highways! 

 

If you go to the FBI stats and look at race and location, you'll find out that the odds of being murdered for a middle class white American who doesn't hang out in dodgy neighborhoods, hit on other guys' wives, or do drug deals are virtually nil.  (Personally, I think the causative correlation is poverty as opposed to race, but that's another topic for another thread.  The media has a tendency to sensationalize the murders that capture viewers, but they're like a one in a million- literally.) 

 

Thailand's murders seem a lot more random to me, simply because of the lack of zoning and the way poverty lives within spitting distance of amazing wealth.  On one hand, I have no problems going into Thai neighborhoods that I'd avoid like the plague back home.  On the other hand, that's largely because those neighborhoods can't be avoided like they can be avoided back home.  There's no separation like zoning laws enforce.

 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

If you go to the FBI stats and look at race and location, you'll find out that the odds of being murdered for a middle class white American who doesn't hang out in dodgy neighborhoods, hit on other guys' wives, or do drug deals are virtually nil.  (Personally, I think the causative correlation is poverty as opposed to race, but that's another topic for another thread.  The media has a tendency to sensationalize the murders that capture viewers, but they're like a one in a million- literally.) 

 

Thailand's murders seem a lot more random to me, simply because of the lack of zoning and the way poverty lives within spitting distance of amazing wealth.  On one hand, I have no problems going into Thai neighborhoods that I'd avoid like the plague back home.  On the other hand, that's largely because those neighborhoods can't be avoided like they can be avoided back home.  There's no separation like zoning laws enforce.

 

I feel differently. I am genuinely concerned in alot of the neighborhoods in the US, that I pass through. Concerned about a random drive by shooting, or a violent robbery. I have no concerns about that here. None. Not one iota. I have rarely ever witnessed thai on fareng violence here. Unless the fareng was being really stupid. I see alot of senseless violence in America. And we are not even talking about mass shootings, which are unheard of here, but common in America, these days. 

 

Not sure if any studies have been done on it, but I think over 90% of murders here are thai on thai, and either a disagreement among wanna be gangsters, marital in nature, or hits ordered by drug lords, mafioso types, or top officials. 

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and the replies were removed. 

[impulse]

26 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I feel differently. I am genuinely concerned in alot of the neighborhoods in the US, that I pass through. Concerned about a random drive by shooting, or a violent robbery. I have no concerns about that here. None. Not one iota. I have rarely ever witnessed thai on fareng violence here. Unless the fareng was being really stupid. I see alot of senseless violence in America. And we are not even talking about mass shootings, which are unheard of here, but common in America, these days. 

 

Not sure if any studies have been done on it, but I think over 90% of murders here are thai on thai, and either a disagreement among wanna be gangsters, marital in nature, or hits ordered by drug lords, mafioso types, or top officials. 

 

I tend to think that a lot of us don't realize when we're in a dodgy situation in Thailand, because of language and culture differences.  I have no problem at all divining dangerous conditions back home where I understand the culture and the language- even if its not my own. 

 

Here in Thailand, I have no clue whether that group of kids in my path is talking about their last football match, or planning to rob and beat the crap out of me.  And on a more practical note, it's tough to tell when I'm approaching some kind of tipping point where a discussion is going to go south and result in violence.  That miscalculation seems to be the root of so many incidents we read about where a foreigner ends up on the wrong end of an argument.

 

I'm sure that the murder rate is well over 90% Thai on Thai (or at least Asian on Asian) simply because the percentage of western foreigners is well under 10%.

 

I get where you're coming from, and I "feel" safer in a dodgy Thai neighborhood than in a dodgy US neighborhood.  But the numbers shake out pretty clearly in favor of the USA for a middle class white guy who stays out of Detroit, Chicago, etc.

[upu2]

36 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I feel differently. I am genuinely concerned in alot of the neighborhoods in the US, that I pass through. Concerned about a random drive by shooting, or a violent robbery. I have no concerns about that here. None. Not one iota. I have rarely ever witnessed thai on fareng violence here. Unless the fareng was being really stupid. I see alot of senseless violence in America. And we are not even talking about mass shootings, which are unheard of here, but common in America, these days. 

 

Not sure if any studies have been done on it, but I think over 90% of murders here are thai on thai, and either a disagreement among wanna be gangsters, marital in nature, or hits ordered by drug lords, mafioso types, or top officials. 

Totally agree with you. That as I think you will agree is not to say it doesn't happen as i am sure it does but it is a rare occurrence unless the foreigner starts the trouble as we have read many times in some of the bars in Pattaya. Back in my home country, the UK, i am more worried about mindless attacks than at any time here in Thailand

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

I tend to think that a lot of us don't realize when we're in a dodgy situation in Thailand, because of language and culture differences.  I have no problem at all divining dangerous conditions back home where I understand the culture and the language- even if its not my own. 

 

Here in Thailand, I have no clue whether that group of kids in my path is talking about their last football match, or planning to rob and beat the crap out of me.  And on a more practical note, it's tough to tell when I'm approaching some kind of tipping point where a discussion is going to go south and result in violence.  That miscalculation seems to be the root of so many incidents we read about where a foreigner ends up on the wrong end of an argument.

 

I'm sure that the murder rate is well over 90% Thai on Thai (or at least Asian on Asian) simply because the percentage of western foreigners is well under 10%.

 

I get where you're coming from, and I "feel" safer in a dodgy Thai neighborhood than in a dodgy US neighborhood.  But the numbers shake out pretty clearly in favor of the USA for a middle class white guy who stays out of Detroit, Chicago, etc.

I truly doubt what you are saying. I think it is a false contention that the rate of thai on fareng violence is low, because the number of foreigners is low. Very unscientific. LOL. I think it is mostly that we are simply not targets. Thailand is not a violent culture like the PI, or New Guinea. Most are peaceful people. And if there is a murder, it is among two thai guys playing cards, getting drunk, and losing their minds. 

 

The per capita murder rate in the US is comparable to Thailand. But, there it is American on American. Here is it thai on thai. I would prefer the latter.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, upu2 said:

Totally agree with you. That as I think you will agree is not to say it doesn't happen as i am sure it does but it is a rare occurrence unless the foreigner starts the trouble as we have read many times in some of the bars in Pattaya. Back in my home country, the UK, i am more worried about mindless attacks than at any time here in Thailand

I have been in situations with younger Thai men, where I could tell it could get overheated. Accidental kinds of situations. I simply offered a wai, and sorry, looked them in the eyes, and they waved it off. Seems most Thais are very sensitive to your attitude. If you show enough kindness and respect they respond to that. Not necessarily the case in the US, these days, where hatred is far more fashionable with diet orange in charge. 

[Srikcir]

10 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The per capita murder rate in the US is comparable to Thailand.

They are ranked somewhat less comparable than one might think (January 11, 2018):

#  81 US

#100 Thailand

The higher the rank the lower the rate.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/murder-rates-by-country.html

[impulse]

5 hours ago, Srikcir said:

They are ranked somewhat less comparable than one might think (January 11, 2018):

#  81 US

#100 Thailand

The higher the rank the lower the rate.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/murder-rates-by-country.html

 

Drill down a little using FBI data regarding ethnicity, and you'll find that 4209 murder victims were white, non Hispanic.

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-1.xls

 

The US population of White, non-Hispanics is about 225 million

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans

 

Yielding a murder rate for white folks at 1.87 per 100K, about half the murder rate in Thailand.  So, as a white, middle class guy with a good job, who doesn't deal in drugs and is usually in bed long before the wee hours, I feel pretty safe in the USA.  Especially since I understand the culture and have a pretty good idea of the places and activities to stay away from.

 

Before anyone starts calling me out as a racist for claiming the extremely high rate of murders among blacks and Hispanics is acceptable, it's not.  No more than the genocide in the former Yugoslavia was acceptable.  But like the genocide, it doesn't affect me personally and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it.  It's an interesting statistic, but not one that affects the quality of my life.

 

Edit:  I'd also add that means my odds of surviving 2019 in the USA without being murdered are about 99.998%  The odds of me surviving in the USA for 75 years without being murdered are around 99.85%.  So I'm not going to sweat it.

 

Edited July 24, 2018 by impulse

[ta158]

13 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Thailand has a comparable murder rate as in the US. But here it is less random than in the US. And here it is Thai on Thai, 98% of the time. So, for most of us, it is quite safe, until we hit the highways! 

how can you know that the murder and violence is less random here?, english news in thailand only cover very very little of crime news or incidents that happens same as thai news....

[ta158]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I feel differently. I am genuinely concerned in alot of the neighborhoods in the US, that I pass through. Concerned about a random drive by shooting, or a violent robbery. I have no concerns about that here. None. Not one iota. I have rarely ever witnessed thai on fareng violence here. Unless the fareng was being really stupid. I see alot of senseless violence in America. And we are not even talking about mass shootings, which are unheard of here, but common in America, these days. 

 

Not sure if any studies have been done on it, but I think over 90% of murders here are thai on thai, and either a disagreement among wanna be gangsters, marital in nature, or hits ordered by drug lords, mafioso types, or top officials. 

mass shooting is when 3-4+ people is shot dead or  injured. so it is not unheard in thailand it is just that thailand does not call it mass shooting when that happens in thailand. and it is not uncommon that 3-4 people get shot in thailand....

 

 

[metisdead]

A post containing links to Bangkok Post has been removed as per forum rules. 

[Nyezhov]

18 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Thailand has a comparable murder rate as in the US. But here it is less random than in the US. And here it is Thai on Thai, 98% of the time. So, for most of us, it is quite safe, until we hit the highways! 

It isn't random in the US.and I challenge the assertion that foreigners are dying like flies because of Thailand. How much tourist road Carnage should be attributed to the tourist himself. 

 

 

[Nyezhov]

8 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Drill down a little using FBI data regarding ethnicity, and you'll find that 4209 murder victims were white, non Hispanic.

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-1.xls

 

The US population of White, non-Hispanics is about 225 million

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans

 

Yielding a murder rate for white folks at 1.87 per 100K, about half the murder rate in Thailand.  So, as a white, middle class guy with a good job, who doesn't deal in drugs and is usually in bed long before the wee hours, I feel pretty safe in the USA.  Especially since I understand the culture and have a pretty good idea of the places and activities to stay away from.

 

Before anyone starts calling me out as a racist for claiming the extremely high rate of murders among blacks and Hispanics is acceptable, it's not.  No more than the genocide in the former Yugoslavia was acceptable.  But like the genocide, it doesn't affect me personally and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it.  It's an interesting statistic, but not one that affects the quality of my life.

 

Edit:  I'd also add that means my odds of surviving 2019 in the USA without being murdered are about 99.998%  The odds of me surviving in the USA for 75 years without being murdered are around 99.85%.  So I'm not going to sweat it.

 

Add to the fact that I can lawfully carry a BHP (Old school but you brits still use the L9A1) and I have little fear of USA crime.

 

I don't ride DKWs either.....o wait I didn't know they had boat accidents in the USA.... they have rules....

[Fex Bluse]

Have come to genuinely love Thailand and the Thai people. But, Thais and Safety? Don't be silly. All the main underpinnings of Thai culture contribute to a complete lack of safety. 

 

The biggest issue for tourists in my opinion is the variance between

 

1) what Thais pretend to do and pretend to be and say and 

 

2) what they actually do, say and are 

 

Tourists don't get slaughtered in some dangerous countries because they are not deceived into thinking those countries are safe. When people goto Africa, nobody thinks that everything is perfectly safe, for example. Not so with Thailand. 

 

Most Westerners especially would tend to assume that so many people (like nearly almost any Thai they would ever encounter) would not outright lie in instances of safety are concerned, especially because Westerners tend to value life differently.

 

But, the truth is that Thais find it incredibly easy to lie even when doing so will endanger people. They also focus relentlessly on optics and what things look like to the detriment of substance. 

 

What it all amounts to are tourists who genuinely think Thais are something they are entirely not because Thais play the fictional character so well. 

 

Thais can't possibly change their safety culture unless they fundamentally change their culture. Too bad they, as a national characteristic, generally lack introspection to understand. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Fex Bluse

[anon537687643]

Persuaded my sister and family to go elsewhere for a holiday and not the country with one of the worst health and safety records... on and off the roads


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[BritManToo]

On 7/18/2018 at 11:18 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

Other countries have developed, why not Thailand?

White people aren't running it?

Name one country that developed, that wasn't run by white men?

Not that any of those countries are much fun to live in, which is why we are all here.

So the choice we all have to make is fun and dangerous, or safe and boring, we all choose 'fun and dangerous' they try to make that country 'dull and boring'. Why not just move back home?

Edited July 25, 2018 by BritManToo

[ta158]

On 7/24/2018 at 3:51 PM, impulse said:

 

Drill down a little using FBI data regarding ethnicity, and you'll find that 4209 murder victims were white, non Hispanic.

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-1.xls

 

The US population of White, non-Hispanics is about 225 million

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Americans

 

Yielding a murder rate for white folks at 1.87 per 100K, about half the murder rate in Thailand.  So, as a white, middle class guy with a good job, who doesn't deal in drugs and is usually in bed long before the wee hours, I feel pretty safe in the USA.  Especially since I understand the culture and have a pretty good idea of the places and activities to stay away from.

 

Before anyone starts calling me out as a racist for claiming the extremely high rate of murders among blacks and Hispanics is acceptable, it's not.  No more than the genocide in the former Yugoslavia was acceptable.  But like the genocide, it doesn't affect me personally and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it.  It's an interesting statistic, but not one that affects the quality of my life.

 

Edit:  I'd also add that means my odds of surviving 2019 in the USA without being murdered are about 99.998%  The odds of me surviving in the USA for 75 years without being murdered are around 99.85%.  So I'm not going to sweat it.

 

why is it that on this forum, when you explain crime stats and such saying thailand is more dangerous or more unsafe, people stop replying when you are right....

 

in 2016 thailands murder rate was 3.5 per 100,000 people  = 2,387 murders according to thailand.

 

but according to research by the University of Washington.

there were more than 3,000 homicides by a firearm in thailand. rate of 4.45 deaths per 100,000 people. but if you add all kinds of murder the figure is about 4,000 - 4,500 murder = 5.88 - 6.6 per 100,000 people, 

 

  https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/gun-violence-in-thailand-a-problem-that-can-t-be-solved-10124114

 

but that is up to each one to believe which one is the true. and what comes into my mind is thailand is very careful about tourism they dont want anything to scare away tourists...

 

 

[Fex Bluse]

5 hours ago, ta158 said:

why is it that on this forum, when you explain crime stats and such saying thailand is more dangerous or more unsafe, people stop replying when you are right....

 

in 2016 thailands murder rate was 3.5 per 100,000 people  = 2,387 murders according to thailand.

 

but according to research by the University of Washington.

there were more than 3,000 homicides by a firearm in thailand. rate of 4.45 deaths per 100,000 people. but if you add all kinds of murder the figure is about 4,000 - 4,500 murder = 5.88 - 6.6 per 100,000 people, 

 

  https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/gun-violence-in-thailand-a-problem-that-can-t-be-solved-10124114

 

but that is up to each one to believe which one is the true. and what comes into my mind is thailand is very careful about tourism they dont want anything to scare away tourists...

 

 

This is exactly right. No disrespect intended, but it is hard to understand why educated farang would take Thai statistics seriously and not understand they have to be used as a lower starting point.  

 

Thailand has neither the national organization to properly collect such stats nor the motivation to properly report them as doing so would a) make them loose precious "face" and b) potentially impact the tourism (and sex trade associated monies) the country receives.

 

If a farang can't figure this out, perhaps he doesn't want to understand. In a nation where it is the national character to lie in most any situation, you need multiple sources of information to formulate a reasonably accurate assessment.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Fex Bluse

[thaiguzzi]

Re the OP;

Blimey.

The first sensible, common sense thing I've read from a government minister in a long long time.

If even half of it happens - Kudos! You're on the right track.

[kratiam]

On 7/18/2018 at 6:28 PM, Ironman1958 said:

Not to mention the everyday "accident" or "suicide", per the police, that befalls some Farang who "fell" or "jumped" off a 27 floor building with his hands tied behind his back and 3 bullet holes in his chest.

Oh...I must havemissed that.  Please share with us.....and, if you can't, grow up.

[watcharacters]

On 7/18/2018 at 5:16 AM, Oziex1 said:

The big question is, will they put to sea in bad weather and if so, who is making the decision. A skilled seaman or a money hungry big man? 

  

Common sense would be helpful about any boat trip.   Tourist or resident.   If a boat is going  out further than I can swim I WILL  have a life vest.    It's that simple for me.   I also would be  aware of the sea and what's happening around me.

 

This has already been gone over pretty well.    I've posted links  about it.

 

 But what is the current status of the Thailand  investigation?

 

No investigation in progress?    OK    SOP