Testosterone replacement in Bangkok

[KhunFred]

On 6/30/2020 at 12:58 PM, Mattijok said:

Do you guys know any online shop selling legit Rotexmedica?

I buy this brand through Ocean Pharmacy in Jomtien. I do not know if it is available online.

[Dellian]

Anyone know a doctor or specialist that is willing to prescribe twice-weekly testosterone for TRT that won't charge 10,000THB for a single Nebido injection every 30-90 days at their clinic? 

I feel like I've contacted every clinic in Thailand and it's the same story. Firmly against anything else (sutanon for instance) and even had one doctor openly laugh when asked about injecting multiple times a week. 

[lovesthespicy]

Any suggestions for a hospital/clinic in Bangkok that will check test levels and give good advice on how much to take(if needed)at an affordable cost? 

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, lovesthespicy said:

Any suggestions for a hospital/clinic in Bangkok that will check test levels and give good advice on how much to take(if needed)at an affordable cost? 

Just go to any blood lab and have a "total testosterone blood test.  It is about 1500 THB.  If your number are low (like under say 500 ng/dL) or you just want advice from an MD irregardless of what they are, go and talk with ANY doctor for advice.  No need to see a specialist, and you definitely want to stay away from those specialized TRT clinics.  They will simply rip you off.  Any good GP can advise you, and if you show up with the blood test results in hand that's the best.

[WaveHunter]

3 hours ago, Dellian said:

Anyone know a doctor or specialist that is willing to prescribe twice-weekly testosterone for TRT that won't charge 10,000THB for a single Nebido injection every 30-90 days at their clinic? 

I feel like I've contacted every clinic in Thailand and it's the same story. Firmly against anything else (sutanon for instance) and even had one doctor openly laugh when asked about injecting multiple times a week. 

ANY GP can advise you; no need to see a specialist and stay away from the TRT clinics since most are very scammy.  Get your blood tested first at any blood lab for about 1500 baht and schedule an appoint with any doctor.  Most GP's should be able to advice you on this; it's not rocket science. 

 

Just my opinion but I'd forget about Nebido.  Testosterone Enanthate is just fine, very economical and very easy to find in pharmacies. 

 

Also, just plan on doing the injections yourself.  A nurse can show you how or you can just watch a YouTube video.  Again, not rocket science.  You may be squeamish the first time you do it but it's very easy and painless to do once you know the proper technique.

 

Most effective delivery is into muscle but for someone new to it, a better way to start is injecting into fat layer of your belly, because you can use a 31ga insulin needle which is tiny and virtually painless.  Really, it's a piece of cake and very economical doing Enanthate.

Edited August 24, 2020 by WaveHunter

[how241]

Sustanon 250 is usually given every 2-4 weeks( 1ml).  As already posted, it is easy to inject yourself or go to any clinic and pay 100 baht and have the nurse do it.  I would start out with 1 ml  every 3 weeks for a few months and see how you feel.  Cheap and easy. 

[WaveHunter]

4 hours ago, Dellian said:

Anyone know a doctor or specialist that is willing to prescribe twice-weekly testosterone for TRT that won't charge 10,000THB for a single Nebido injection every 30-90 days at their clinic? 

I feel like I've contacted every clinic in Thailand and it's the same story. Firmly against anything else (sutanon for instance) and even had one doctor openly laugh when asked about injecting multiple times a week. 

Just wanted to react to your last sentence about multiple injections per week.  While it's true that Nebido (undecanoate) has a 90 day half life so you only have to inject it once every few months, there is a big downside to this.

 

The issue I have with Nebido is it is very difficult to titrate (adjust) your dosage if you have to wait up to 3 months for an injection to clear your system.  When you start TRT, titrating (adjusting) the correct dosage is an important part of treatment.  With Enenthate's short half life of 4-5 days, titration is quick and easy.  With Nebido, not so much! 

 

Not only that, but I have had my blood results show unexpected jumps in testosterone.  My "optimal" level is around 700 ng/dL but had blood tests that showed it to be as high as 1,500!  With Enenthate, it only take a few days for it to clear my system, and I can adjust for a smaller dosage.  With Nebido, I'd be waiting for months for that to happen.

 

Shorter half life is therefore a big advantage as far as I'm concerned, and the weekly injections is really not a big deal when you do them yourself.  It takes me about 2 minutes to do an injection so really not a big deal.

 

Just something to consider...and if a doctor actually laughed at that option, I would quickly stand up and walk right out the door!  He's not the kind of doctor you want to be overseeing your treatment; that's for sure!

 

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by WaveHunter

[Dellian]

 

3 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

ANY GP can advise you; no need to see a specialist and stay away from the TRT clinics since most are very scammy.  Get your blood tested first at any blood lab for about 1500 baht and schedule an appoint with any doctor.  Most GP's should be able to advice you on this; it's not rocket science. 

 

Just my opinion but I'd forget about Nebido.  Testosterone Enanthate is just fine, very economical and very easy to find in pharmacies. 

 

Also, just plan on doing the injections yourself.  A nurse can show you how or you can just watch a YouTube video.  Again, not rocket science.  You may be squeamish the first time you do it but it's very easy and painless to do once you know the proper technique.

 

Most effective delivery is into muscle but for someone new to it, a better way to start is injecting into fat layer of your belly, because you can use a 31ga insulin needle which is tiny and virtually painless.  Really, it's a piece of cake and very economical doing Enanthate.

I'm starting to realise that about those clinics. I think I've contacted them all and none of them are right for me. I believe I'm at a dead end as to what I can do with the assistance of a doctor in the area I live or trusting those sharks. Minus the blood work, I think I'm on my own. Which is upsetting in so many ways.

 

Pretty funny when they asked for 10,000THB for a blood test and I told them I'll be happy to send my own in. They didn't like that. 

 

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

Just wanted to react to your last sentence about multiple injections per week.  While it's true that Nebido (undecanoate) has a 90 day half life so you only have to inject it once every few months, there is a big downside to this.

 

The issue I have with Nebido is it is very difficult to titrate (adjust) your dosage if you have to wait up to 3 months for an injection to clear your system.  When you start TRT, titrating (adjusting) the correct dosage is an important part of treatment.  With Enenthate's short half life of 4-5 days, titration is quick and easy.  With Nebido, not so much! 

 

Not only that, but I have had my blood results show unexpected jumps in testosterone.  My "optimal" level is around 700 ng/dL but had blood tests that showed it to be as high as 1,500!  With Enenthate, it only take a few days for it to clear my system, and I can adjust for a smaller dosage.  With Nebido, I'd be waiting for months for that to happen.

 

Shorter half life is therefore a big advantage as far as I'm concerned, and the weekly injections is really not a big deal when you do them yourself.  It takes me about 2 minutes to do an injection so really not a big deal.

 

Just something to consider...and if a doctor actually laughed at that option, I would quickly stand up and walk right out the door!  He's not the kind of doctor you want to be overseeing your treatment; that's for sure!

 

 

I honestly don't want to touch Nebido for the reasons you stated. I figure I'll be doing this alone as every doctor I've spoken to has been well out-of-date, doesn't have enough knowledge to help me properly and safely or just wants money. 

 

Not worried about injecting. (I say this before my first dose) Right now I'm worried about any potential side-effects which is why I wanted a competent doctor to assist me with my lab work and potential prescribe/get anything I might need. I'm in Khon Kaen and I wouldn't even know where to begin to get anything at the moment. 

 

Also believe me I did leave. He reminded me of a lot of doctors back home when I was asking for help. I won't be going back there.

 

Really appreciate your help here. Any chance I can shoot you a DM? 

 

[pineapple01]

Is there a Tablet/ Oral form, or just injections ?.

[Patts]

5 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Just go to any blood lab and have a "total testosterone blood test.  It is about 1500 THB.  If your number are low (like under say 500 ng/dL) or you just want advice from an MD irregardless of what they are, go and talk with ANY doctor for advice.  No need to see a specialist, and you definitely want to stay away from those specialized TRT clinics.  They will simply rip you off.  Any good GP can advise you, and if you show up with the blood test results in hand that's the best.

Terrible advice. You need way more than just Total T to be able to make a decisions about whether TRT is required and more importantly if it's safe for the individual. Total T, Free T, SHBG, PSA, E2, Prolactin and also general bloods to check kidney function, White and Red blood cells and Haemoglobin should be required to give a full picture.  

 

Most doctors know jack about TRT and the knowledge they do have is normally outdated. Even endocrinologist (at least in the UK) lack even basic TRT knowledge.

[Patts]

1 hour ago, pineapple01 said:

Is there a Tablet/ Oral form, or just injections ?.

There are commonly three options which are: injections, topical gel or skin patches (less common). The gel can have very mixed results depending on the individual and the application but more over there are more considerations with regard to interactions with your partner or children. 

 

There are tablets/oral but most are methylated and these can only be taken for short periods and have far more serious side effects especially for damage to the Liver and kidneys. There is a new oral testosterone that is currently in clinical trials and I believe there is also a couple that are approved but only available in the USA

[Patts]

1 hour ago, Dellian said:

Not worried about injecting. (I say this before my first dose) Right now I'm worried about any potential side-effects which is why I wanted a competent doctor to assist me with my lab work and potential prescribe/get anything I might need. I'm in Khon Kaen and I wouldn't even know where to begin to get anything at the moment. 

There's not to many "potential side-effects" to worry about beyond how painful it is, risk of infection and injecting into a vein. 

 

The pain will really depend on frequency, injection site and if you intend to do intra muscular or subcutaneous, the later of which is far less painful and has lower risks in regard to infection, severity of infection and hitting a blood vessel.

 

 

[Dellian]

26 minutes ago, Patts said:

There's not to many "potential side-effects" to worry about beyond how painful it is, risk of infection and injecting into a vein. 

 

The pain will really depend on frequency, injection site and if you intend to do intra muscular or subcutaneous, the later of which is far less painful and has lower risks in regard to infection, severity of infection and hitting a blood vessel.

 

 

I understand that. I meant TRT as a whole. It's very daunting for me to potentially be starting this by myself. Even with the knowledge I have managed to research online over the past month.

[Patts]

50 minutes ago, Dellian said:

I understand that. I meant TRT as a whole. It's very daunting for me to potentially be starting this by myself. Even with the knowledge I have managed to research online over the past month.

Have you got around to doing blood work? Without that it's a none starter because you maybe starting a life long treatment for something you don't need. TRT even when within the upper end on a normal range (8.64 to 29 nmol/L) range can create a host of side affects so best to ensure that whatever symptoms you are experiencing can't be resolved by less invasive means.

 

I would highly recommend that you watch Dr Robert Stevens Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxQ5OrHd4-66WJWOVRDJxtg

 

He really is a pioneer for TRT treatments in the UK and there is also some great advice on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/trtintheuk

 

These two sources should give you all the advice and knowledge that you need to make a decision. 

 

If you are any doubt about Dr Stevens credentials he takes care of many top level athletes and ex pro bodybuilders including none other than 6 time mr O Dorian Yates. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Patts

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, Patts said:

Terrible advice. You need way more than just Total T to be able to make a decisions about whether TRT is required and more importantly if it's safe for the individual. Total T, Free T, SHBG, PSA, E2, Prolactin and also general bloods to check kidney function, White and Red blood cells and Haemoglobin should be required to give a full picture.  

 

Most doctors know jack about TRT and the knowledge they do have is normally outdated. Even endocrinologist (at least in the UK) lack even basic TRT knowledge.

Spoken like somebody who has no personal experience with TRT.  I have been on TRT for over 6 years now, and the doctor that oversaw my treatment was a GP.  He was able to provide me with excellent treatment, and tested my blood quarterly to make adjustments in dosage, check E2 and hematocrit, etc.  He knew what he was doing as well as any endocrinologist.

 

If you bothered to comprehend what I said (which obviously you did not), my advice was merely to have Total T tested to see whether or not it was low so the OP could decide whether or not to consult a physician, and then have the test result in hand so the doctor could decide whether or not to proceed with further testing.  Naturally, a doctor will order a more in-depth series of blood panels before deciding a course of action, and conduct a general check up before proceeding with treatment if that is the direction to go in.  A "good" GP is perfectly capable of doing this.

[shdmn]

10 hours ago, Dellian said:

Anyone know a doctor or specialist that is willing to prescribe twice-weekly testosterone for TRT that won't charge 10,000THB for a single Nebido injection every 30-90 days at their clinic? 

I feel like I've contacted every clinic in Thailand and it's the same story. Firmly against anything else (sutanon for instance) and even had one doctor openly laugh when asked about injecting multiple times a week. 

And what does that tell you?

Edited August 24, 2020 by shdmn

[WaveHunter]

4 hours ago, Dellian said:

 

I'm starting to realise that about those clinics. I think I've contacted them all and none of them are right for me. I believe I'm at a dead end as to what I can do with the assistance of a doctor in the area I live or trusting those sharks. Minus the blood work, I think I'm on my own. Which is upsetting in so many ways.

 

Pretty funny when they asked for 10,000THB for a blood test and I told them I'll be happy to send my own in. They didn't like that. 

 

I honestly don't want to touch Nebido for the reasons you stated. I figure I'll be doing this alone as every doctor I've spoken to has been well out-of-date, doesn't have enough knowledge to help me properly and safely or just wants money. 

 

Not worried about injecting. (I say this before my first dose) Right now I'm worried about any potential side-effects which is why I wanted a competent doctor to assist me with my lab work and potential prescribe/get anything I might need. I'm in Khon Kaen and I wouldn't even know where to begin to get anything at the moment. 

 

Also believe me I did leave. He reminded me of a lot of doctors back home when I was asking for help. I won't be going back there.

 

Really appreciate your help here. Any chance I can shoot you a DM? 

 

My advice is do NOT attempt to self medicate.  TRT is very safe and effective if handled correctly but can be dangerous if things like estrogen and hematocrit levels are not monitored periodically through blood tests and interpreted by a good doctor.  You really need a good MD to oversee your treatment. 

 

Consider yourself lucky to be here in Thailand where blood testing is very economical.  Back in the States, when I went in for blood tests, my doctor ordered a lot of different panels.  All in all, if I did not have insurance, it would have cost over $1,500 USD for those tests!  Here in Thailand, the same set of panels costs around $120 USD, and the testing labs are every bit as good and reliable!

 

Forget about the TRT clinics.  My advice in finding a doctor is simply to go to your local hospital and ask to see a GP who can advise you specifically about TRT.  The administrators will not insist you see an endocrinologist.  Anyone familiar with TRT in the last few years knows that GP are very up-to-speed on TRT these days and so an endocrinologist is no longer considered necessary.  When I moved to Pattaya I had the same problem of finding a good GP to take over my treatment.  My problem was solved simply by doing this.  The doctor I found was indeed a GP but was very knowledgable about TRT, trustworthy, and enthusiastic about overseeing my treatment.

 

Yes, feel free to DM me if you like.  Happy to help anyway I can.

Edited August 24, 2020 by WaveHunter

[Patts]

7 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Spoken like somebody who has no personal experience with TRT.  I have been on TRT for over 6 years now, and the doctor that oversaw my treatment was a GP.  He was able to provide me with excellent treatment, and tested my blood quarterly to make adjustments in dosage, check E2 and hematocrit, etc.  He knew what he was doing as well as any endocrinologist.

 

If you bothered to comprehend what I said (which obviously you did not), my advice was merely to have Total T tested to see whether or not it was low so the OP could decide whether or not to consult a physician, and then have the test result in hand so the doctor could decide whether or not to proceed with further testing.  Naturally, a doctor will order a more in-depth series of blood panels before deciding a course of action, and conduct a general check up before proceeding with treatment if that is the direction to go in.  A "good" GP is perfectly capable of doing this.

Thanks for your condescending reply; I mean whole 6 years of TRT, you must know everything! 

 

You advised the OP to have Total Testosterone tested to see if it was low or not so he could decide whether to consult a doctor....................................

 

Total T wouldn't necessarily have shown the full picture.....e.g Total T may have shown to have been within normal range and therefore going off what you have said the doctor would have said "you're within normal range" no need for TRT. If full bloods were done it may have shown that while Total Testosterone was fine, Free Testosterone was not and the individual would either require some dietary supplements to reduce SBHG or if this failed he would still require TRT. 

 

On the other hand Total T could have come back low and the doctor may have said "oh yes sir your Testosterone is low, lets start TRT" when in fact the individual may be overweight and under active, overactive and/or calorie deficient, sleep apnea or have vitamin/mineral deficiencies among other things all of which can cause low testosterone but do not require TRT to resolve. 

 

While I'm happy for you that your experience with a GP and or endocrinologist was good this is not the case for most patients. Very often the ones that do stick with the endocrinologists treatment is normally because the patient doesn't know any better or they cannot afford private treatment. This is certainly the case in the UK where GP and most endocrinologists have very little specific knowledge and follow a very limited list of options. 

 

 

[WaveHunter]

2 hours ago, Patts said:

There's not to many "potential side-effects" to worry about beyond how painful it is, risk of infection and injecting into a vein. 

 

The pain will really depend on frequency, injection site and if you intend to do intra muscular or subcutaneous, the later of which is far less painful and has lower risks in regard to infection, severity of infection and hitting a blood vessel.

 

 

TRT is NOT without potential side effects!  While TRT is generally very safe IF a competent and knowledgable doctor is in charge, that is not necessarily true if dosages are too high, or if periodic blood testing is not conducted and interpreted.  For instance, estrogen as well as hematocrit levels can and often will escalate as a result of TRT.  Without periodic blood testing, serious complications can develop without the patient even being aware of it until it is out of control.

 

I'm only making a point about this because here in Thailand, where Testosterone can be purchased over the counter without a prescription, a lot of people think they can just be their own doctor and self-medicate...very bad idea!  Just saying it so people are aware that TRT needs to be respected as a serious form of hormonal treatment with very real consequences for the Do-it-YourSelfers out there.  Nothing wrong with self administering the injections, but self medicating is a big no-no! 

 

 

[Patts]

9 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

TRT is NOT without potential side effects!  While TRT is generally very safe IF a competent and knowledgable doctor is in charge, that is not necessarily true if dosages are too high, or if periodic blood testing is not conducted and interpreted.  For instance, estrogen as well as hematocrit levels can and often will escalate as a result of TRT.  Without periodic blood testing, serious complications can develop without the patient even being aware of it until it is out of control.

 

I'm only making a point about this because here in Thailand, where Testosterone can be purchased over the counter without a prescription, a lot of people think they can just be their own doctor and self-medicate...very bad idea!  Just saying it so people are aware that TRT needs to be respected as a serious form of hormonal treatment with very real consequences for the Do-it-YourSelfers out there.  Nothing wrong with self administering the injections, but self medicating is a big no-no! 

 

 

If you read my reply in relation to the original quoted question I think you will see I am referring to issues of self administered injections,e.g pain, and risk of infection etc, not the side affects that TRT can cause, otherwise I do agree with most of your comment. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Patts

[WaveHunter]

24 minutes ago, Patts said:

Thanks for your condescending reply; I mean whole 6 years of TRT, you must know everything! 

 

You advised the OP to have Total Testosterone tested to see if it was low or not so he could decide whether to consult a doctor....................................

 

Total T wouldn't necessarily have shown the full picture.....e.g Total T may have shown to have been within normal range and therefore going off what you have said the doctor would have said "you're within normal range" no need for TRT. If full bloods were done it may have shown that while Total Testosterone was fine, Free Testosterone was not and the individual would either require some dietary supplements to reduce SBHG or if this failed he would still require TRT. 

 

On the other hand Total T could have come back low and the doctor may have said "oh yes sir your Testosterone is low, lets start TRT" when in fact the individual may be overweight and under active, overactive and/or calorie deficient, sleep apnea or have vitamin/mineral deficiencies among other things all of which can cause low testosterone but do not require TRT to resolve. 

 

While I'm happy for you that your experience with a GP and or endocrinologist was good this is not the case for most patients. Very often the ones that do stick with the endocrinologists treatment is normally because the patient doesn't know any better or they cannot afford private treatment. This is certainly the case in the UK where GP and most endocrinologists have very little specific knowledge and follow a very limited list of options. 

 

 

Look...Total T gives a good indiction if testosterone is low or not AS A PRELIMINARY STEP that allows the Op to decide whether or not to even see a physician.  A good physician is going to run more extensive panels, conduct a physical, and act responsibly in the patients best interest.

 

It sounds to me like you are getting all of your information off the internet rather than as an actual TRT patient.  Either that or you've just had horrible experiences with GP's.  Just because a doctor is a specialist does not necessarily make him or her any more knowledgable than a GP.  In fact, some of the best doctors I know are "lowly" GP's, and some of the absolute worst are those so called TRT "specialists" who run their anti-aging clinics and rip off unsuspecting patients with high prices and fantastical claims of what TRT can do for them.  Many of these scam clinics are run in the doctor's name only and actually manned by nurses or PA's who handle the injections.  

 

As far as trusting a GP to oversee TRT, a lot has changed in TRT in the last few years.  The popularity of TRT has made most GP's very well  informed about TRT, and many of them regularly provide treatment to their patients.  It is no longer the exclusive domain of the "specialist" so perhaps you should wake up to the reality of where TRT is today, not 5 years ago.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

28 minutes ago, Patts said:

If you read my reply in relation to the original quoted question I think you will see I am referring to issues of self administered injections,e.g pain, and risk of infection etc, not the side affects that TRT can cause, otherwise I do agree with most of your comment. 

I kind of assumed that, and I meant no disrespect to you with my reply.  I simply was making a point for those who might misinterpret what you said as an inference that TRT itself is free from potential side effects.

 

You did indeed make very good points about SubQ injections being a better option for someone new to injections, and I agree.  However, I think that IM injections are actually a better option once you are comfortable self-administering injections. 

 

There's a good deal of debate among physicians and TRT patients on that topic but personally I decided to switch to IM.  I think efficacy is improved by injecting deeper into muscle rather than into fat.  I don't find it particularly painful, and with good sterile technique I'm not really too concerned about infections or abscesses.  As far as hitting a vein, I've done that once.  it's a little freaky but not really that big a deal LOL.  One main reason I switched though is that I simply got too impatient trying to inject SubQ with tiny insulin needles that take forever to inject oil-based test.  Each to their own of course ????

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by WaveHunter

[Patts]

21 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Look...Total T gives a good indiction if testosterone is low or not AS A PRELIMINARY STEP that allows the Op to decide whether or not to even see a physician.  A good physician is going to run more extensive panels, conduct a physical, and act responsibly in the patients best interest.

 

It sounds to me like you are getting all of your information off the internet rather than as an actual TRT patient.  Either that or you've just had horrible experiences with GP's.  Just because a doctor is a specialist does not necessarily make him or her any more knowledgable than a GP.  In fact, some of the best doctors I know are "lowly" GP's, and some of the absolute worst are those so called TRT "specialists" who run their anti-aging clinics and rip off unsuspecting patients with high prices and fantastical claims of what TRT can do for them.  Many of these scam clinics are run in the doctor's name only and actually manned by nurses or PA's who handle the injections.  

 

As far as trusting a GP to oversee TRT, a lot has changed in TRT in the last few years.  The popularity of TRT has made most GP's very well  informed about TRT, and many of them regularly provide treatment to their patients.  It is no longer the exclusive domain of the "specialist" so perhaps you should wake up to the reality of where TRT is today, not 5 years ago.

 

 

The problem is you are comparing the health care you have experienced/received in the US and Thailand, I am comparing what is provided in the UK which is very different and I assure what I speak of is bang up to date. I would take the advice of Dr Stevens over any GP or Endo that's for sure 

[mokwit]

Just total T is not enough IMO - it gives a partial picture. When everything is straightforward that might appear to be enough and treatment on that alone may be OK. My Total T came in at 640 ng/DL with Thai lab which corresponds to about 900-950 ng/DL on the US 300-1200 ng/DL scale - a 20 year old mans level. However my SHBG was near double the norm which resulted in Free T of 5 ng/DL  vs range 5-15 ng/DL and symptoms corresponding with sub 300 levels. This is an example of why you have to measure SHBG (or free T direct also). I think you should also get LH (released in a pulsatile manner so levels are quirky) and FSH levels done as this gives further insight as to what/where the problem is - both mine were at the high - my guess being that because free unbound T was low, not enough T was getting into the brain (pituitary/Hypothalamus) so LH and FSH maximally stimulated as a result as the body sought to correct - which normally/in younger men should result in SHBG declining/free T increasing with resultant increased T. Of course my results could also be explained by the Clomiphene and Proviron (mesterolone) I was taking, but I err now towards the first explanation above.

 

For the record a 2,000 sample size study done by a Professor of Endocrinology with alifetime of TRT clinical experience showed no correlation between Free or total T levels and symptoms. Other wildcards are receptor density and sensitivity - testosterone resistance similar to Insulin resistance. Age is also a factor - seems to me up until age maybe 46 people with symptoms and low T respond across the board , but after that age the response is kind of random some things might improve, others don't. I found that one of the main authorities on T (Nieschlag) had come to that conclusion also.

 

Doing it yourself is not really a good idea, people do and are fine because usually it is straightforward - it is when things are not that problems can arise or wrong conclusions drawn e.g. for most people just total T would be OK, but for me it was not.

 

I sat through lectures on HPTA at undergraduate level given by PhD Endocrinologists and have done my own research at primary paper level - most do not really have the knowledge to do that (including me) . I have pretty much given up furthering my knowledge as to understand anything non straightforward takes a lifetime of clinical experience. e.g. symptoms of high estrogen but E is in normal ranges when measured - can anybody on this web board answer that?

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by mokwit

[lovesthespicy]

Thanks for the advice guys. Anyone know where a "good gp" would be to talk about these things in BKK. I can obv find a blood lab but not every doctor will have knowledge on TRT. 

 

Thanks

[mokwit]

Another quirk where for most people just total T would be OK, but for me it was not. Is my T at 640 ng/DL because my production is at 20yr old's levels or is my T production actually sub normal but appears normal because it is bound to 2x the normal level of SHBG and thus clears at a slower rate - if my SHBG was normal maybe my T would be 320 ng/DL.

[mokwit]

You could do what I did - I went to see Tim Lopez at Maximum Performance Wellness Centre BKK/Pattaya based on an interview he did with a bodybuilder that indicated to me that he knows his stuff.

 

I paid Bt 6,000 for a 1 hour consultation where I ran what I had been doing past him for comment and to have him answer questions I had.

 

It cost me I think Bt 8000 for a subsequently done comprehensive blood panel and a well over 1 hour discussion of my results.

 

His pricing structure is controversial and outside your indicated pricing but I did not feel at any time there was any attempt to close me into signing on - he left me to get on with it myself following our discussion of my results.

 

See here (note I have no affiliation other than as a patient)

https://www.whatclinic.com/doctors/thailand/pattaya/maximum-performance-wellness-center-pattaya

[pineapple01]

Is injection the only way to administer.Rather off putting all this bickering. A Simple Yes or No would help. Thanks.

[faraday]

6 minutes ago, pineapple01 said:

Is injection the only way to administer.Rather off putting all this bickering. A Simple Yes or No would help. Thanks.

No, but it is the most effective.

[lovesthespicy]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

You could do what I did - I went to see Tim Lopez at Maximum Performance Wellness Centre BKK/Pattaya based on an interview he did with a bodybuilder that indicated to me that he knows his stuff.

 

I paid Bt 6,000 for a 1 hour consultation where I ran what I had been doing past him for comment and to have him answer questions I had.

 

It cost me I think Bt 8000 for a subsequently done comprehensive blood panel and a well over 1 hour discussion of my results.

 

His pricing structure is controversial and outside your indicated pricing but I did not feel at any time there was any attempt to close me into signing on - he left me to get on with it myself following our discussion of my results.

 

See here (note I have no affiliation other than as a patient)

https://www.whatclinic.com/doctors/thailand/pattaya/maximum-performance-wellness-center-pattaya

 

That doesnt seem to bad. 8K to talk to someone who knows what their talking about with blood test done. I just dont want to be paying absurd prices for TRT every month when I'm completely comfortable buying and injecting something myself.

 

Thanks alot for the reply.