Britain has identified Russians suspected of Skripal nerve attack: Press Association

[ChouDoufu]

of course it doesn't matter if any of this is factual.  it's served its intended purpose.

 

the original story has been picked up by hundreds of news websites and blogs and twatted throughout the interwebs.  the true believers believe it and will be quoting it forever.

 

similar to the blockbuster news item where an aide to rouhani had threatened to reveal the names of western european leaders who had been bribed to support the jpcoa.  five minutes of googling turned up the source was a grad student in england, part time "consultant", and wannabe bellingcat observatory.

[evadgib]

12 hours ago, BestB said:

Maybe you missed it but even uk security minister wallace dismissed these claims 

 

but for Thai visa experts appearantly its a jackpot ?

My post preceded such comment which I note wasnt a blanket denial.

[kamahele]

16 hours ago, Topdoc said:

Of course, it's not a perfectly accurate cross sample but the Daily Mail and Mail Online are in 1st place with some 23.5m UK readers over the course of a month (2015 data). It's one of the most popular newspapers in the whole world!

As Fox News is the highest rated "news" service in the USA. Doesn't mean they are accurate, correct or not promoting their own point of view.

[Kwasaki]

Following this, the saga has not made any sense it's been nothing but a volley of assumptions being excepted because UK plod will never find out the real truth or person behind it.

Unless someone is set up, admits or gives themselves up the assumed accusations will continue. 

The present trend is Russia has to responsible for everything of course.

 

 

[dunroaming]

20 hours ago, Topdoc said:

Just because they may have identified Russian suspects doesn't mean that Putin was involved.
If you recall, Julia's prospective mother in law was extremely anti Julia's relationship with her son which seemed to be moving in the direction of marriage. She couldn't stand it that her son was going to get engaged to the daughter of a traitor. 

 

Anyway, if you look at the Best Rated comments section in the Daily Mail and elsewhere you can see that the general public are highly sceptical about this whole story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5969197/Skripal-Novichok-poisoning-suspects-identified.html#comments

 

Of course that old KGB man Putin wouldn't have anything to do with it. ?

 

Maybe quoting from a proper newspaper and not the Daily Mail my give your argument more weight. 

[melvinmelvin]

21 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Of course that old KGB man Putin wouldn't have anything to do with it. ?

 

Maybe quoting from a proper newspaper and not the Daily Mail my give your argument more weight. 

 

funny;

general public sceptical

but old Liz and her cab ain't no sceptic - BJ Johnson going full out and putting the blame on Russia,

not once - but twice- what an <deleted>

and now BJ a possible runner up for UK PM

 

UK has its challenges

 

[Kwasaki]

23 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Of course that old KGB man Putin wouldn't have anything to do with it. ?

 

Maybe quoting from a proper newspaper and not the Daily Mail my give your argument more weight. 

No newspaper, no police, no MI5/6 or 007 knows anything, nothing but speculation.

[geriatrickid]

21 hours ago, Topdoc said:

Just because they may have identified Russian suspects doesn't mean that Putin was involved.
If you recall, Julia's prospective mother in law was extremely anti Julia's relationship with her son which seemed to be moving in the direction of marriage. She couldn't stand it that her son was going to get engaged to the daughter of a traitor. 

 

Anyway, if you look at the Best Rated comments section in the Daily Mail and elsewhere you can see that the general public are highly sceptical about this whole story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5969197/Skripal-Novichok-poisoning-suspects-identified.html#comments

 

Such silliness.  This isn't a soap opera on the telly, but is reality and this is how the Russian spy agencies have always operated.  Maybe you can convince the Corbyn supporters  since, Corbyn  has his own ties to the Russian espionage  services, but anyone with some semblance of common sense is going to laugh at you.

 

Yes, some  trolls and Russian agents have made comments in the tabloids., so what? Those comments are neither representative of the readers, nor of the actual public sentiments. Aside from the fact that most UK residents are clueless to the world around them, those who are aware,  are not fooled by the Russian excuses.

 

 

19 hours ago, stevenl said:

Strangely enough it are the right wingers wanting to absolve Putin of involvement, strange world we live in.

You will find that  people you call right wing, have no actual political position, save that of their own personal self interests and profits.

 

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

No newspaper, no police, no MI5/6 or 007 knows anything, nothing but speculation.

The newspapers only report what they learn, discover or are told. The police  only know what they have been told by the experts. Senior  intelligence  officials have a good idea of what happened and have kept a great deal from the public for the simple reason that the information could cause panic and wide scale fear.  Consider the implications if a terror group got hold of similar toxins.

[dunroaming]

12 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

No newspaper, no police, no MI5/6 or 007 knows anything, nothing but speculation.

Some truth in that.  But even if we had rock solid proof nothing is going to happen over it apart from maybe threats and bluster

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Some truth in that.  But even if we had rock solid proof nothing is going to happen over it apart from maybe threats and bluster

 

you are probably right in what you say,

but with rock solid proof threats and bluster would have some basis

 

not like Old Liz and her cab's attack on Russia without a thread of evidence

 

[Wake Up]

22 hours ago, BestB said:

Says who ?

No Russian would take this risk without Putin’s ok and the ability to get this nerve agent.  If they did they would be killed by Putin’s men. He is the dictator mafia boss of Russia. 

[BestB]

58 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

No Russian would take this risk without Putin’s ok and the ability to get this nerve agent.  If they did they would be killed by Putin’s men. He is the dictator mafia boss of Russia. 

Which nerve agent are you referring to? The one which UK failed to find origins ? the one which contains all the elements of published formula invented by a Russian scientist or another one ?

[Wake Up]

48 minutes ago, BestB said:

Which nerve agent are you referring to? The one which UK failed to find origins ? the one which contains all the elements of published formula invented by a Russian scientist or another one ?

The UK found the origins and identified it came from Russia. That is the one I refer to. Not the misinformation news from Russia TV that you are paraphrasing. 

[BestB]

32 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

The UK found the origins and identified it came from Russia. That is the one I refer to. Not the misinformation news from Russia TV that you are paraphrasing. 

Haha, no UK did not. Stop making up fiction stories and post it as facts 

[Wake Up]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

Haha, no UK did not. Stop making up fiction stories and post it as facts 

 

2 hours ago, BestB said:

Haha, no UK did not. Stop making up fiction stories and post it as facts 

Military-grade nerve agent from Russia and Russian suspects attacking ex soviet spy and his soviet daughter. But you must be a Putin lover to try and muddy the truth with rabbit hole fiction. No expections for you to post the truth just kee attacking the truth as fiction. Have a nice life. Good bye comrade you have served your country well. Putin would be proud. 

[BestB]

1 hour ago, Wake Up said:

 

Military-grade nerve agent from Russia and Russian suspects attacking ex soviet spy and his soviet daughter. But you must be a Putin lover to try and muddy the truth with rabbit hole fiction. No expections for you to post the truth just kee attacking the truth as fiction. Have a nice life. Good bye comrade you have served your country well. Putin would be proud. 

More fiction, 

 

In an exclusive interview with INSURGE, a former senior official at the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) from 1993 to 2006, Dr Ralf Trapp, said that at this stage there is no conclusive evidence that Russia was the source of the nerve agent used in Salisbury. He pointed to compelling evidence that Russia did run a secret research programme to create Novichok-type nerve agents — and strongly criticised Russia’s denials of that programme. While justifying grounds for suspicion, there is as yet no decisive proof that Russia retained such a Novichok programme or capability today, he said.

[ChouDoufu]

the british government made a number of claims.  i recall the wording from the document filed in court to retrieve blood samples from the skripals used something like "a substance consistant with" or "related to a family of compounds", and used the "of a type" construction to assign blame to russia without showing russia was involved.

 

anyhoo, the ocpw filed their report, said their findings were consistent with the british findings, although the public report never really said what they agreed with.

 

you can read it here:  https://www.opcw.org/news/article/opcw-issues-report-on-technical-assistance-requested-by-the-united-kingdom/

 

seems they were agreeing with the statement that the substance was indeed "of a type" developed by the soviet union.  as their remit had not yet been altered to assign blame, they restricted themselves to identifying the substance only.

 

they did say it was of "high purity".  don't know if they said "weapons grade" specifically, or if that had been added by news agencies in search of more clicks.

you can download the unclassified report from the link above.

 

seems pointless to continue to debate this.  yes, the compound was developed by the soviet union 50 years ago, in a lab in uzbeckistan.  the soviet union dissolved, leaving the lab and equipment in place.  the united states assisted in dismantling the facility.  the formula has been published, multiple governments have said they have in the past worked with the compound.  not likely to be able to trace the compound used on skripal, as no samples exist to match with.

 

 

what we're still missing is russia's motive.  yes, some have claimed a "cast-iron" motive that putin wanted to send a message.  but does that hold up?

 

putin wants to send a message by killing a former soviet spy using a toxin developed by the former soviet union.  obviously putin is so consumed by his hatred and revenge, he WANTS the world to know he did it.

 

in "sending a message", putin would be shrugging off too many negative consequences.  doesn't fit with his reputation of being a 5D chess master.

 

russia is a signatory to the chemical weapons convention, so far in good standing.  why offer proof that they were cheating?  why offer proof of an active chemical weapons program?

 

why wouldn't the poison kill the skripals?  some have postulated that the clever russians had re-designed the world's deadliest toxin as a timed-release poison, unaffected my environmental factors (novachok is highly susceptible to moisture, it was raining that fateful night), and equally effective at exactly the same moment regardless of the victims sex, age, or constitution.  that sounds like a very serious violation of the chemical weapons treaty putin is announcing to the world....to send a message.

 

superspy assassination methods take years to refine, and can probably only be used once.  (how many times has the cia re-used all those castro plots?)  why waste a one-shot deal on a message?

 

if we know putin is a bloodthirsty coldblooded killer, then surely his henchmen know.....and have surely seen examples of this firsthand.  why would they, as fellow ruthless killers, need to be sent a message?

 

russian has a tiny gdp (mostly commodities exports) in relation to the usa and in relation to europe.  they are already under sanction and their economy and the ruble is suffering.  does putin NOT want to MRGA?  why invite more sanctions, just as the final approvals for nordstream are pending?

 

russia was counting on the good press and the tourism valuta from the world cup.  why offer excuses to boycott the games?

 

with the russian election coming up, why would putin want to cause more pain for the russian people?  after all, if he's a ruthless dictator, and the elections are fake, then why would he need foreign pressure to stuff the ballot boxes?