4 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

A hundred thousand illiberal liberals turning up in London does not equate to the opinion of the UK public...Pfft.

two hundred and fifty thousand but let's not split hairs and probably best to not count the thousands that turned out in the rest of the country either.  Still there was a pro Trump march as well but that only made double figures so let's wash over that too.

31 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

This is a hostile divorce being called by the UK.  Do you expect the other side to just roll over and agree to your demands?  I can only assume you have never been divorced.

Please don't make assumptions on my behalf.

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

two hundred and fifty thousand but let's not split hairs and probably best to not count the thousands that turned out in the rest of the country either.  Still there was a pro Trump march as well but that only made double figures so let's wash over that too.

Knew someone would drag Trump into it...lol

19 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

Don't talk for the UK unless you have  specific figs !

"According to YouGov’s polling, 11 percent of Britons believe Trump is a great or good president. But 67 percent, a vast majority, believe he is a poor or terrible president."

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-popular-britain-heres-what-polling-says-1016136

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

What I have noticed that remainers are becoming nastier on here with their replies, what do you think?

?   I didn't realise you were such a sensitive soul Vogie.  I always enjoy the vigour of your posts and your undying loyalty to the Brexiteer mantra.  You are a credit to the cause!

 

There you go...  Is that better?

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

?   I didn't realise you were such a sensitive soul Vogie.  I always enjoy the vigour of your posts and your undying loyalty to the Brexiteer mantra.  You are a credit to the cause!

 

There you go...  Is that better?

That is much better, I thought you had had 3 Shredded Wheat for your breakfast or something. ps I don't do sensitivity, I just find I like to give like for like and it doesn't always do on TV. ?

But seriously, about Northern Ireland and the border with EU/Ireland, if there is no "special status" attributed to Northern Ireland and Brexit goes into effect - what will be the outcome?

1. EU puts up a wall/border with customs and everything, as there obviously needs to be at the outer border of the European Union.
2. But, but, but there isn't a border with a wall and customs between Sweden (EU) and Norway (not EU)... But then again Norway is part of Schengen. And Ireland is not...
3. Should Northern Ireland be given away to Ireland?
4. Should Northern Ireland become a sovereign state? Free to choose if it wants to be part of the European Union?
5. Or should Ireland be expelled from the European Union? I mean it does have some weird (religious) laws on the books.
 
Which one will it be?

I read on Twitter the other day the DUP Mr Robinson has warned off unionists of NI unification.

Primarily to thwart off any further possible instability, bearing in mind Stormont is empty the NI electorate must be getting a tad miffed their politicians refuse to form a credible administration in the province.

I’d post a link from Twitter but I don’t have it on this device.


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22 minutes ago, vogie said:

That is much better, I thought you had had 3 Shredded Wheat for your breakfast or something. ps I don't do sensitivity, I just find I like to give like for like and it doesn't always do on TV. ?

Well said!

1 hour ago, androokery said:

But seriously, about Northern Ireland and the border with EU/Ireland, if there is no "special status" attributed to Northern Ireland and Brexit goes into effect - what will be the outcome?

1. EU puts up a wall/border with customs and everything, as there obviously needs to be at the outer border of the European Union.

2. But, but, but there isn't a border with a wall and customs between Sweden (EU) and Norway (not EU)... But then again Norway is part of Schengen. And Ireland is not...

3. Should Northern Ireland be given away to Ireland?

4. Should Northern Ireland become a sovereign state? Free to choose if it wants to be part of the European Union?

5. Or should Ireland be expelled from the European Union? I mean it does have some weird (religious) laws on the books.

 

Which one will it be?

Norway is part of the EEA, so it is part of the Single Market. It has to comply with most EU regulations, but doesn't get a vote. And regardless of whether this is de jure or de facto, this is the future of the UK -- even of not officially part of the EU/EEA/Single Market, any company that wants to do business with the EU will still need to abide by EU standards, and since the EU is one of the big 3 economic powerhouses, the others being the US and China, only purely domestic enterprises could potentially benefit from reduced regulations.

 

The original article is poorly written, as the point you raised is what he was talking about. Right now, the UK is proposing special status for NI where it would be part of both the Single Market and the UK domestic market. This would require both sets of rules to be followed, but would also give NI a competitive advantage as companies there could interact freely with both the EU and UK. The EU is basically saying that NI needs to be either is in the UK or EU for customs purposes but cannot be both. Because May's government relies on a NI party to maybe maintain its majority, negotiating with the EU in this issue could cause another general election.

 

So, basically, the UK needs to sort out what they really want, because a 52-48% result on an ambiguously worded non-binding referendum doesn't really give a strong mandate.

5 minutes ago, vaultdweller0013 said:

So, basically, the UK needs to sort out what they really want,

Does it matter what the UK wants? They're leaving, and what do they have to bargain with? Following the logic, it seems that there will be another general election in the UK. Is that somehow unpalatable for the EU...? Then that could be a bargaining chip. But I don't think it is. 

2 hours ago, vogie said:

What I have noticed that remainers are becoming nastier on here with their replies, what do you think?

What I have noticed is that in the absence of the chief troll, ordinarily more mild Brexiteers are trying harder to emulate his bad eminence. 

Does it matter what the UK wants? They're leaving, and what do they have to bargain with? Following the logic, it seems that there will be another general election in the UK. Is that somehow unpalatable for the EU...? Then that could be a bargaining chip. But I don't think it is. 

I’m not sure you’ve fully thought through your question, as for bargaining? It’s a negotiation & a little research from unbiased & independent sources would say initially, a, trade surplus b, CoL, international business hub and c, security & intelligence. That’s just three at the top of my head.

 

And yes I concur the U.K. is leaving.

 

 

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17 hours ago, citybiker said:

The treaty can also be amended, adjusted to suit as JRM quite right highlights to Guy in this committee question session.

 

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Says it all, some seem to think that the EU should change their way of doing things to suit the UK.

Don't you think it would be a bit arrogant of me to expect TM to change the law to suit me.

18 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

I'm still not sure of your point?

I you can't see the consequences, not a lot to be said.

14 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

The UK is either in or out and there is no half-way special deal house, as the EU will not accept that, and will only offer WTO rules at best as that's how they treat everyone outside the EU. However, the UK does 60% of it's trade on WTO rules anyhow.  

Brexiteer propaganda. The UK does not do any amount of trade under WTO rules, the UK does a certain percentage of trade under EU WTO rules.

The UK cannot trade under WTO rules until it creates a UK schedule which would need to be ratified by all WTO members.

At this point in time nobody has any idea how much trade would be done under a UK WTO schedule.

Says it all, some seem to think that the EU should change their way of doing things to suit the UK.
Don't you think it would be a bit arrogant of me to expect TM to change the law to suit me.

It's EU arrogance that was one of the factors & causes of Brexit, along with ignorance.

Policies can be amended periodically, after careful and pragmatic mindset thinking the overall focus is progress, unfortunately Brussels is self interest and ensuring it retains its self dominance and authority (ie a control freak).

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13 minutes ago, citybiker said:

It's EU arrogance that was one of the factors & causes of Brexit, along with ignorance.

Policies can be amended periodically, after careful and pragmatic mindset thinking the overall focus is progress, unfortunately Brussels is self interest and ensuring it retains its self dominance and authority (ie a control freak).

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Yes, policies can be amended, but only to benefit the members. Why for a third country?

Of course, Brussels acts in its own interest (actually that of the members) and wants to retain its authority. What else would you expect???

It seems the Brexiteers have a strange sense of entitlement. You voted to leave, fine, but then live with the consequences.

14 hours ago, bristolboy said:

What I have noticed is that in the absence of the chief troll, ordinarily more mild Brexiteers are trying harder to emulate his bad eminence. 

I'm still wondering who on earth you believe to be "the chief troll"?

1 hour ago, citybiker said:

It's EU arrogance that was one of the factors & causes of Brexit, along with ignorance.

Policies can be amended periodically, after careful and pragmatic mindset thinking the overall focus is progress, unfortunately Brussels is self interest and ensuring it retains its self dominance and authority (ie a control freak).

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"It's EU arrogance that was one of the factors & causes of Brexit, along with ignorance."

 

Any ignorance seems more likely to apply more to those youngsters convinced that leaving the eu would mean that it would be difficult to travel to eu countries ?.

Yes, policies can be amended, but only to benefit the members. Why for a third country? Of course, Brussels acts in its own interest (actually that of the members) and wants to retain its authority. What else would you expect???

It seems the Brexiteers have a strange sense of entitlement. You voted to leave, fine, but then live with the consequences.

 

The consequences will be on both sides, too much emphasis on many thinking the UK will be worse off. 

Many other independent countries not directly linked to the EU prosper and contine to do so, the UK shouldn't be any different, regardless of status.

 

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3 minutes ago, citybiker said:

The consequences will be on both sides, too much emphasis on many thinking the UK will be worse off. 

Many other independent countries not directly linked to the EU prosper and contine to do so, the UK shouldn't be any different, regardless of status.

 

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It's a matter of geography. It's a pretty much universal economic phenomenon that the amount of foreign trade a nation does with another is directly proportional to distance. 

Norway is part of the EEA, so it is part of the Single Market. It has to comply with most EU regulations, but doesn't get a vote. And regardless of whether this is de jure or de facto, this is the future of the UK -- even of not officially part of the EU/EEA/Single Market, any company that wants to do business with the EU will still need to abide by EU standards, and since the EU is one of the big 3 economic powerhouses, the others being the US and China, only purely domestic enterprises could potentially benefit from reduced regulations.

 

The original article is poorly written, as the point you raised is what he was talking about. Right now, the UK is proposing special status for NI where it would be part of both the Single Market and the UK domestic market. This would require both sets of rules to be followed, but would also give NI a competitive advantage as companies there could interact freely with both the EU and UK. The EU is basically saying that NI needs to be either is in the UK or EU for customs purposes but cannot be both. Because May's government relies on a NI party to maybe maintain its majority, negotiating with the EU in this issue could cause another general election.

 

So, basically, the UK needs to sort out what they really want, because a 52-48% result on an ambiguously worded non-binding referendum doesn't really give a strong mandate.

 

Ambiguous worded?

 

Remain an EU member: Yes or No......

 

Unsure if you really thought your question through.

 

Anyway, that’s 2 years ago & progress should be the focus not rerunning parts of a referendum that many disliked because the result wasn’t to their liking.

 

 

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On 7/30/2018 at 3:55 PM, dick dasterdly said:

 

I'm still not sure of your point?

Did you watch BBC news yesterday, they aired a reality check of the aviation 'no deal' scenario. The CEO of Flybee effectively admitted they were selling tickets on a wing and a prayer on the hope that a rabbit would come out of the hat.

The reality check summary was that a 'no deal' would lead to a panic temporary extension to membership.

22 hours ago, citybiker said:

It's EU arrogance that was one of the factors & causes of Brexit, along with ignorance.

Policies can be amended periodically, after careful and pragmatic mindset thinking the overall focus is progress, unfortunately Brussels is self interest and ensuring it retains its self dominance and authority (ie a control freak).

Sent from my SM-A500FU using Tapatalk
 

This is where the brexiteer mindset cannot see the difference between treaties and policies. Treaties are drawn up between member states and then ratified in parliament of each member state. They are very complex and not easily amended.

Brexiteers want to forget that the UK signed up to the treaties that they now claim are EU intransigence. A bit like some one driving on 3rd party and then complaining when the claim for their own car gets rejected.

On 7/25/2018 at 6:17 AM, webfact said:

German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said in a media interview published on Wednesday that the British government needs to get moving in Brexit negotiations, including on the Northern Ireland border issue.

Or what?

On 7/25/2018 at 7:18 AM, RuamRudy said:

Don't forget, however, that those particular polls were rigged - free polls issued to the press indicated a Remain win, however Vote Leave private polling, for which they paid handsomely, was more detailed and showed a Leave win - hence Farage misleading the public when the referendum closed, in order to cause the market shock from which his buddies made hundreds of millions of pounds.

You forgot to mention the SNP polls predicting a win for them. Come the result,and it turned out the SNP were way off the mark. 55%to stay united 45% for bigotry.

On 7/30/2018 at 7:58 AM, ramrod711 said:

I have no "iron in the fire" as I am Canadian, but I am interested and curious. I wonder if people would change their vote, leave or stay, given the advent of Trump and his attacks on both Europe and Britain.

And O.K. We know there is some friction between Trump and the E.U.

However I’ve heard nothing of the sort regarding the U.K.

in fact Trump has stated that he fully supports the democratic decision of the British electorate.

calls for barnier to be sacked as hes just being obstructive and will lead to an  EU implosion

16 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

calls for barnier to be sacked as hes just being obstructive and will lead to an  EU implosion

Now that would make it interesting! Hopefully Verhofstadt can go with him

Yes, policies can be amended, but only to benefit the members. Why for a third country?
Of course, Brussels acts in its own interest (actually that of the members) and wants to retain its authority. What else would you expect???
It seems the Brexiteers have a strange sense of entitlement. You voted to leave, fine, but then live with the consequences.

Nothing to do with entitlement, however the consequences will be felt both sides.


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