Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[Pib]

Although there have been multiple recent threads on how things are changing with ACH transfers via the Bangkok Bank New York Branch, I figure the latest breaking update deserves a new thread to help ensure the word gets out.   

 

As many already know from the other threads as of a few months ago Bangkok Bank started rejecting new ibanking funds transfer links which are setup using the trial/micro deposit methods which most U.S. banks/credit unions use.  However, funds transfer from already established transfer links continued to flow...."and will continue to work until 1 Apr 19."   Also, U.S. govt benefits payments such as social security, military retirement ,etc., will not be affected.  See below post for more info.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Pib

[soisanuk]

Thanks for the information as I was not aware of the change.  One reason is because there has been no change in my transfers from USA bank to Bangkok Bank account - it was set up using the 2 deposit method over a year ago. My transfers in May, June, and July all went through as usual.  Has anyone else had a problem with continuing their transfers?

[Jingthing]

The problems seem to be with people trying to set up NEW links. That's already been stopped. Most people should expect it will probably be OK if they have an already established link that you've used before until the announced cut off date.

 

So that does leave time to try to find an alternative transfer method if you've been relying on the BB NYC ACH transfer scheme.

 

I've used it as a backup option. But sad to see it go because that means my primary backup option with be gone.

 

It's advisable to have at least two transfer options I think 

[3421abc]

I made a transfer from my credit union 2 weeks ago and worked normally. I am switching from ACH transfer anyway.

I set up a coinbase account to buy crypto coins in the US then transfer the coins to my bx account in Thailand and sell the coins there and get the cash out.

I did a trial transfer already and it was cheaper.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The bottom lines here are simple:

 

--The current BKKB system for domestic ACH transfers from the U.S. to Thailand via their NY branch is ENDING as of April 1, 2019.  The online U.S. ACH domestic transfers you have been doing all along to BKKB NY will no longer function after that point.

 

--The end of the current domestic ACH transfers system for the NY branch, according to BKKB, will have NO IMPACT on the current Social Security and any other federal government direct deposit arrangements already existing thru BKKB.

 

--BKKB in their updated webpage is advising its U.S. customers that after April 1, 2019, they should use a different system with their U.S. banks' online banking called IAT (International ACH Transfers).  However, the apparent problem with that is, no one seems to know of any U.S. banks that currently provide consumers online access to IAT or any U.S. banks/CUs that have announced plans to support it for consumers.

 

And no, none of this is an early April Fool's Day Joke!!!

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[mackayae]

Are there any existing alternatives? I can think of ATM's, but that is clumbersome and costly.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, mackayae said:

Are there any existing alternatives? I can think of ATM's, but that is clumbersome and costly.

 

--the possibility that someone here will find or report some U.S. financial institutions that DO or plan to support IAT. Although IMHO, that seems unlikely to be a generally available solution, because IAT has been around for a decade, and U.S. banks still have not offered it at the consumer accounts level.

 

--international wire transfers with institutions that don't charge outrageous fees.

 

--private money transfer services like Transferwise

 

--for smaller needs, using U.S. bank cards that charge no foreign currency fees and reimburse the 220b current Thai ATM fee on foreign card ATM withdrawals.

 

--carry U.S. cash on plane trips to Thailand from the U.S., though I personally don't recommend that.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

34 minutes ago, mackayae said:

Are there any existing alternatives? I can think of ATM's, but that is clumbersome and costly.

I would recommend you consider a money transfer service like Transferwise. I opened an account about a month ago...works like a charm.    For transfers of up to around $3K or less Transferwise puts more baht into your Thai bank account when  both "exchange rate and fees" are considered.  For amounts above approx $3K you will be a little better off using an Int'l Wire/SWIFT.   And you can transfer to "any" Thai bank; not just Bangkok Bank which you are limited to if using the Bangkok Bank ACH method which for all practical purposes will end 1 Apr 19 since IAT is not offered by U.S. retail bank accounts...only Domestic ACH and Domestics/Int'l Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT) is offered.   IAT transfers is primarily a corperate accounts thing used for international payment of goods/services, payroll, etc.  

Edited July 27, 2018 by Pib

[TGIR]

Bangkok Bank has a New York branch in the U.S.  I send transfers to that bank from my U.S. Wells Fargo Bank account using on-line banking.  The process is the same process I would use to deliver money from my Wells Fargo account to any other bank in America......Bangkok Bank being one of those "other banks" essentially.

 

Whatever the system Wells Fargo uses after April 2019 is really of no concern to me but I'm pretty sure it is already SWIFT as the U.S. banking system started using SWIFT a few years ago.  

   

I  believe one other easy way not mentioned in the thread so far is good old Western Union.....here is a direct quote from them on Google just now:   

 

"Send cash from an agent location | Western Union Thailand

https://www.westernunion.com/th/en/send-money-in-person.html"

1.  

Send cash from any Western Union agent location in Thailand to your family and friends abroad, then track your transfer conveniently online.

 

 

 

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, TGIR said:

Bangkok Bank has a New York branch in the U.S.  I send transfers to that bank from my U.S. Wells Fargo Bank account using on-line banking.  The process is the same process I would use to deliver money from my Wells Fargo account to any other bank in America......Bangkok Bank being one of those "other banks" essentially.

 

Whatever the system Wells Fargo uses after April 2019 is really of no concern to me but I'm pretty sure it is already SWIFT as the U.S. banking system started using SWIFT a few years ago.  

   

I  believe one other easy way not mentioned in the thread so far is good old Western Union.....here is a direct quote from them on Google just now:   

 

"Send cash from an agent location | Western Union Thailand

https://www.westernunion.com/th/en/send-money-in-person.html"

1.  

Send cash from any Western Union agent location in Thailand to your family and friends abroad, then track your transfer conveniently online.

 

 

 

And 1 Apr 19 your ACH transfers from Wells Fargo via the Bangkok Bank NY branch will be rejected/returned.

 

Additionally, if you tried to setup a new ibanking ACH transfer link in your Wells Fargo ibanking today and assuming they use trial deposits to validate which I pretty sure they do, you would not be able to get that link approved by Wells Fargo because Bangkok Bank New York will reject the trial deposits back to Wells Fargo.

 

Sure, Wells Fargo also offers Int'l Wire transfer (a.k.a., SWIFT) but that comes with a healthy fee and does "not" go through the U.S ACH system. 

 

Western Union is easy but it's one of the most expensive ways to send money.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Pib

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, TGIR said:

Bangkok Bank has a New York branch in the U.S.  I send transfers to that bank from my U.S. Wells Fargo Bank account using on-line banking.  The process is the same process I would use to deliver money from my Wells Fargo account to any other bank in America......Bangkok Bank being one of those "other banks" essentially.

 

Whatever the system Wells Fargo uses after April 2019 is really of no concern to me but I'm pretty sure it is already SWIFT as the U.S. banking system started using SWIFT a few years ago.  

   

I  believe one other easy way not mentioned in the thread so far is good old Western Union.....here is a direct quote from them on Google just now:   

 

"Send cash from an agent location | Western Union Thailand

https://www.westernunion.com/th/en/send-money-in-person.html"

1.  

Send cash from any Western Union agent location in Thailand to your family and friends abroad, then track your transfer conveniently online.

 

 

 

No. You're using ACH to Bangkok Bank New York that flows to your Thai BB account and that service will END in April. That's what this thread is about!

There would never be a reason to send a SWIFT domestically!

 

[Jingthing]

It's been a long time since I had a WF account but I recall back then their SWIFT service was quite expensive and you needed to do an in person U.S. branch application to set up the service first time. 

Every bank has different rules for that.

Some even have online SWIFT. 

Anyway, this thread is about the ACH Bangkok Bank scheme going to New York first ENDING. 

[cycolista]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

I would recommend you consider a money transfer service like Transferwise. I opened an account about a month ago...works like a charm.    For transfers of up to around $3K or less Transferwise puts more baht into your Thai bank account when  both "exchange rate and fees" are considered.  For amounts above approx $3K you will be a little better off using an Int'l Wire/SWIFT.   And you can transfer to "any" Thai bank; not just Bangkok Bank which you are limited to if using the Bangkok Bank ACH method which for all practical purposes will end 1 Apr 19 since IAT is not offered by U.S. retail bank accounts...only Domestic ACH and Domestics/Int'l Wire (a.k.a., SWIFT) is offered.   IAT transfers is primarily a corperate accounts thing used for international payment of goods/services, payroll, etc.  

I'm curious, how long does a transfer take using Transferwise?

[Hank Gunn]

2 hours ago, soisanuk said:

Thanks for the information as I was not aware of the change.  One reason is because there has been no change in my transfers from USA bank to Bangkok Bank account - it was set up using the 2 deposit method over a year ago. My transfers in May, June, and July all went through as usual.  Has anyone else had a problem with continuing their transfers?

If you read the OP carefully, you'll note that ACH transfers through the BBK Bank NY branch that have already been set up and used successfully will continue to work until the cutoff date of April 1, 2019. For those who are trying to initiate this setup (ACH transfers from an American bank to their BKK Bank acct. in Thailand by routing through the BKK Bank NY branch) the door has been closed they will not be able to set up this methodology of funds transfer.

[Pib]

24 minutes ago, cycolista said:

I'm curious, how long does a transfer take using Transferwise?

My first transfer funded from my U.S. bank account via ACH Debit (i.e, ACH pull of funds) took 4 business days, but the first transfer usually takes longer since there is a verification process involved.  Transferwise tells you upfront on their website the first transfer may take a little longer since you are new customer and some verification is req'd.

 

2nd and 3rd transfer fund from my U.S. bank account via ACH Debit took 2 business days.

 

4th transfer funded from my U.S. Debit card took 1 business day.

 

Transfers made to two different Thai banks.  

 

 

[Pib]

7 minutes ago, Hank Gunn said:

For those who are trying to initiate this setup (ACH transfers from an American bank to their BKK Bank acct. in Thailand by routing through the BKK Bank NY branch) the door has been closed they will not be able to set up this methodology of funds transfer.

The door is indeed closed for setting up a new transfer link if your bank uses the "trial/micro deposits" method to setup/validate the transfer link.   However, if your bank offers another method to setup the transfer link which does "not" use the trial deposit method then the transfer link can still be setup since Bangkok Bank New York branch is not in the loop on that setup since no trail deposits are sent.   

 

Some banks/credit unions do offer transfer link setup methods which do "not" use trial deposit....you just simply need to enter the routing number & account number and the link is approved immediately or within X-business days by your U.S. bank/credit union.   But the majority of banks/credit unions use the trial deposits method only.

 

But come 1 Apr 19 all ACH transfers not transmitted in the International ACH Transfer (IAT) format....even transmitted from transfer links a person has had setup for a long time....will be rejected/returned to the sending bank.

[Shouldhaveknownbetter]

Just now, Pib said:

The door is indeed closed for setting up a new transfer link if your bank uses the "trial/micro deposits" method to setup/validate the transfer link.   However, if your bank offers another method to setup the transfer link which does "not" use the trial deposit method then the transfer link can still be setup since Bangkok Bank New York branch is not in the loop on that setup since no trail deposits are sent.   

 

Some banks/credit unions do offer transfer link setup methods which do "not" use trial deposit....you just simply need to enter the routing number & account number and the link is approved immediately or within X-business days by your U.S. bank/credit union.   But the majority of banks/credit unions use the trial deposits method only.

 

But come 1 Apr 19 all ACH transfers not transmitted in the International ACH Transfer (IAT) format....even transmitted from transfer links a person has had setup for a long time....will be rejected/returned to the sending bank.

May I ask where did you get this info ?  I just went to the Bangkok bank web page and found no such changes.

Never mind.  Found it buried

Edited July 27, 2018 by Shouldhaveknownbetter
Found answer

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, TGIR said:

Whatever the system Wells Fargo uses after April 2019 is really of no concern to me but I'm pretty sure it is already SWIFT as the U.S. banking system started using SWIFT a few years ago.  

 

 

The easy way to tell what method Wells Fargo is using now when you do online banking transfers to BKKB NY is this:

 

--If your WF transfer is either free or just a couple dollars fee, it is a domestic ACH transfer that BKKB will no longer accept after April 1, 2019.

 

--If you're paying a $25 to $50 fee or so per transfer to WF, then it's probably a SWIFT international wire transfer, which will be unaffected by the changes at BKKB NY.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As I previously reported in the other thread on this subject, according to my contact at BKKB NY, the bank staff there are well aware of the fact that most U.S. banks, maybe all, don't offer/support IAT transfers for their consumer customers thru online banking.

 

So unless there's some sudden, unanticipated discovery of U.S. banking IAT compatibility, the Bangkok Bank website announcement/update that Pib spotted strikes me as DISINGENUOUS to say the least.

 

Sure, BKKB are advising you on a new way you can transfer funds from the U.S. to Thailand. Except, they don't quite fully explain that, apparently, few if any U.S. banks/CUs actually provide access to that IAT method that BKKB is suggesting.

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out between now and April 2019.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[pablo el sueco]

I have contacted Citibank-USA, USAA, and HSBC-USA about this matter.

 

The Citibank Service Rep was very reassuring. External transfers from Citibank are already in IAT format, and it is not necessary to specifically request that format when setting up a fund transfer to Bangkok Bank, NY. Yep, that’s what she said. I’m sceptical.

 

The USAA Service Rep said USAA is “already in compliance to process International ACH Transactions (IAT)”; however, when I asked whether I needed to specifically request IAT when setting up an external fund transfer, she asked me to call them during office hours and ask the question again.

 

I am awaiting a reply from HSBC.

Edited July 27, 2018 by pablo el sueco
missed a character in the bank name

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, pablo el sueco said:

I have contacted Citibank-USA, USAA, and HSB-USA about this matter.

 

The Citibank Service Rep was very reassuring. External transfers from Citibank are already in IAT format, and it is not necessary to specifically request that format when setting up a fund transfer to Bangkok Bank, NY. Yep, that’s what she said. I’m sceptical.

 

The USAA Service Rep said USAA is “already in compliance to process International ACH Transactions (IAT)”; however, when I asked whether I needed to specifically request IAT when setting up an external fund transfer, she asked me to call them during office hours and ask the question again.

 

I am awaiting a reply from HSBC.

 

You need to be specific re what kind of transfers they're talking about -- free ACH transfers that you can initiate thru your own online banking, or international wire transfers using a Swift code.

 

If you read the BKKB announcement carefully, there's a lot of details about specific information that needs to be provided by the sender, such as the mailing address of your recipient bank. And some of those details, such as the mailing address, are never part of U.S. banks' typical online banking ACH setup process.

 

Quote

 

Instructions

To initiate a such an international transaction , using internet banking when you log on to your bank in U.S. website, please select the International ACH and provide the following information to your bank:

1. Your name and physical address in Thailand;
2. Your bank account number and the name and address of your Bangkok Bank Branch in Thailand; and
3. The 9-digit routing number 026008691 of Bangkok Bank New York Branch, which acts as intermediary in the transaction.

 

 

 

None of my U.S. accounts have an online banking option for International ACH.  And none of my online banking ACH set-up processes have fields for entering things like my physical address in Thailand or the address of my BKKB branch in Thailand.

 

Those kinds of items sound, instead, very much like the kinds of things you need to fill in to do an international wire transfer.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

7 minutes ago, pablo el sueco said:

I have contacted Citibank-USA, USAA, and HSB-USA about this matter.

 

The Citibank Service Rep was very reassuring. External transfers from Citibank are already in IAT format, and it is not necessary to specifically request that format when setting up a fund transfer to Bangkok Bank, NY. Yep, that’s what she said. I’m sceptical.

 

The USAA Service Rep said USAA is “already in compliance to process International ACH Transactions (IAT)”; however, when I asked whether I needed to specifically request IAT when setting up an external fund transfer, she asked me to call them during office hours and ask the question again.

 

I am awaiting a reply from HSBC.

 

Good to be skeptical.   Below TV poster tried to setup a new transfer link from his Citibank account last month and it was rejected.   Why?  Because Citibank does not use IAT format for its domestic ACH transfers.   

 

Pretty easy to figure out if your bank is using IAT format because when you setup the link you will have to enter complete info on who you are sending to such as full name, their address and other info along with the typical routing and account number info.   Pretty much the full info like with sending an Int'l Wire/SWIFT transfer.   Usually when setting up a domestic ACH transfer you only enter a routing number and account number....no full address of the recipient.

 

[pablo el sueco]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You need to be specific re what kind of transfers they're talking about -- free ACH transfers that you can initiate thru your own online banking, or international wire transfers using a Swift code.

 

If you read the BKKB announcement carefully, there's a lot of details about specific information that needs to be provided by the sender, such as the mailing address of your recipient bank. And some of those details, such as the mailing address, are never part of U.S. banks' typical online banking ACH setup process.

 

My inquiry with Citibank was specifically targeted to ACH transfers.  And since I had read the Bkk Bank announcement carefully before contacting Citibank, I was skeptical when she replied my existing transfers to Bangkok Bank are already in IAT format.  A second reason is this exchange, which I quote:

 

Me--
To clarify, then, you are stating that my external transfers from citibank are already in IAT format, and I needn't specifically request that format when I establish the transfer request?
Citibank--
That's correct, Paul. Because IAT stands for ACH transactions in banking.

 

I think we're all in for an uphill battle between now and April.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, pablo el sueco said:

Citibank--
That's correct, Paul. Because IAT stands for ACH transactions in banking.

 

 

Don't think so!!!

 

Meanwhile, do yourself a favor. Log into your Citibank account, go to transfers, and see if you have any choice for International ACH Transfers in Citibank online banking.

 

And/or, go to create a new ACH link and see if there's any fields available for entering your foreign address or the mailing address of your recipient bank.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, pablo el sueco said:

5That's correct, Paul. Because IAT stands for ACH transactions in banking.

 

 

Me thinks the CSR you talked to is wrong.  Yes, IAT is a form of ACH as IAT stands for "International ACH Transfer" file format.  It's a different format than used in a Domestic ACH transfer and some coding is different.  

[Pib]

An overview of additional mandatory info required in an IAT transfer which is pretty much full identification of the person you are sending the money to.   Now think about it, have you even had to include this full info when setting up a Domestic ACH transfer link.   While some of the info is generated automatically, some of the info can only be entered by you like the recipient's full address, reason for the transfer (not to be confused with the memo you can enter for your own benefit), and then some underlying coding your bank must enter to identify it as an international transfer.  Below is a partial quote from below weblink.

https://nebat.com/sft1173/iatfaqs.pdf

Quote

What additional information do I need to provide for an IAT entry? The new IAT format has added the following mandatory fields to carry the information needed for a regulatory review: Receiver’s Account Number, Receiver’s DFI Identification Number, Payment Amount, Reason for Payment, Receiver’s Name, Receiver’s Street Address (not P.O. Box), Receiver’s City, State or Province, and Postal Code, Originator’s Name and Identification Number, Originator’s Street Address (not P.O. Box), Originator’s City, State or Province, and Postal Code, ISO destination country code country code (or at least destination country), Receiving bank (name, International ACH Transactions (IAT) identification, qualifier, branch country code), Amount of entry and FX arrangements, and Transaction type code (reason for payment).

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's a good example of the kinds of info that U.S. banks typically ask for with ACH transfers vs. the kinds they ask for for wire transfers whether domestic or international. Totally different.

 

In one of my major U.S. banks, when I go to create a new ACH link, there's no choice for domestic or international. There's just this:

 

 

That's all. Nothing about my address, nothing about my recipient bank's location or address, etc etc.

 

However, when I go to create an online domestic or international wire transfer, I then get asked all those additional details:

 

International Wire:

 

Domestic Wire:

 

 

How all this fits with BKKB's IAT talk, I really don't know.

 

Except, my U.S. bank ACH transfers sent to an ABA/routing number with very few details are free.

 

And my U.S. bank wire transfers with lots of required recipient and sender details often carry a substantial fee.

With a domestic wire, it's going to an ABA number.

With an international wire, it's going to a Swift Code entry.

 

And again, no option in online banking to select International ACH Transaction (IAT).

 

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

My first transfer funded from my U.S. bank account via ACH Debit (i.e, ACH pull of funds) took 4 business days, but the first transfer usually takes longer since there is a verification process involved.  Transferwise tells you upfront on their website the first transfer may take a little longer since you are new customer and some verification is req'd.

 

2nd and 3rd transfer fund from my U.S. bank account via ACH Debit took 2 business days.

 

4th transfer funded from my U.S. Debit card took 1 business day.

 

Transfers made to two different Thai banks.  

 

 

When using Transferwise to send to a Thai bank do you choose use US$ for the currency "you send" and US$ for "Recipient gets?"

 

I assume if the Thai bank (Bangkok Bank in my case) is going to show it as an international transfer they should be receiving US$ and not THB??

[Pib]

12 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

When using Transferwise to send to a Thai bank do you choose use US$ for the currency "you send" and US$ for "Recipient gets?"

 

I assume if the Thai bank (Bangkok Bank in my case) is going to show it as an international transfer they should be receiving US$ and not THB??

When you use Transferwise you are converting one currency to another....like USD to THB.  You fund the transfer with USD and Transferwise sends THB.   In the Transferwise menus you select Send USD and Recipient Gets THB.  

 

Yes, for transfers arriving  Bangkok Bank the description appearing with be International Transfer.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So, the point of my posting the details above of the kind of info that U.S. ACH transfers typically ask for vs the info wire transfers typically ask for is this:

 

If you're reading this thread, go into the online banking for your U.S. banks, and check under the Transfers section to see if you have any ability to initiate an International ACH Transaction (IAT), using exactly that term.

 

If you see that ability, with the ability to fill in your home address and your recipient bank's mailing address, there certainly would be a lot of folks here anxious to know what bank/CU is offering that via online banking.

Edited July 27, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK