Thai govt 'must urgently tackle teacher debt crisis'

[pornprong]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Yea if you feel so much for them pay for them. 

 

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I mean 1,5 million cars bough the first half year.. all on credit.. nah.. overspending is not a problem.

Geez, you pay very little attention to details.......always content to just let the poorly hidden fascism run amok in your posts.

1.5 million vehicles of which over 1 million were motorcycles.

Not 1.5 million CARS (B1million for the average car, B40k for a motorbike - slight difference eh? Glad you're not my accountant.)

Nowhere at all does the article mention a single word about whether these vehicle were bought with credit or cash - again you let your assumptions run wild.

The only thing that surprises me here is you haven't somehow or other included that old devil Thaksin in here as also being responsible.

Oh, by the way, the other point you missed is the Deputy Director General of the DLT attributing the 1.9% increase in registrations, not to overspending but to the legalisation of unauthorised taxis and motorbike taxis - i.e. people are investing in business, creating jobs and therefore growing the economy.

 

1 minute ago, robblok said:

There might be a small percentage of people who had legal or educational bills but that is not the majority of people who get in debt. 

How do you know? You are speculating, allowing your prejudices to lead you to conclusions for which you have no evidence to support.

 

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Oh and left wing speech for sharing burden is that the lef wing rabble will say people should share the burden and then they point at someone else who has to pay.. but not them.. no never them. 

Typical selfish nonsense that is making life worse for all but the 1%.

When has sharing a burden ever worked out for mankind huh? WW1, WW2, public funding of schools, hospitals, infrastructure development such as road networks, scientific research to cure disease and invent things such as the internet and iPhones.

 

Recently in the US a woman got her leg caught between a train and the platform, her fellow commuters rescued her, saving her life, but one of her legs was badly injured. The woman pleaded with people not to call an ambulance because..........she would not be able to afford the bill.

Is this really the type of society you want to live in.

Bugger everyone else, I'm alright thanks Jack........(until you're not alright and then what?)

I guess for you it is - that is why you're such an ardent supporter of Prayuth and the Watchman and all they stand for.

 

[Redline]

5 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

In the West they'd have been done for misselling. 

Yes, that was a big reason for the financial crisis.  The issue is understanding what you are signing on to.  Make 100 percent sure all details are understood.  This applies to all areas of life.  Unfortunately, greed seems to rule the day 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, pornprong said:

 

Geez, you pay very little attention to details.......always content to just let the poorly hidden fascism run amok in your posts.

1.5 million vehicles of which over 1 million were motorcycles.

Not 1.5 million CARS (B1million for the average car, B40k for a motorbike - slight difference eh? Glad you're not my accountant.)

Nowhere at all does the article mention a single word about whether these vehicle were bought with credit or cash - again you let your assumptions run wild.

The only thing that surprises me here is you haven't somehow or other included that old devil Thaksin in here as also being responsible.

Oh, by the way, the other point you missed is the Deputy Director General of the DLT attributing the 1.9% increase in registrations, not to overspending but to the legalisation of unauthorised taxis and motorbike taxis - i.e. people are investing in business, creating jobs and therefore growing the economy.

  

How do you know? You are speculating, allowing your prejudices to lead you to conclusions for which you have no evidence to support.

  

Typical selfish nonsense that is making life worse for all but the 1%.

When has sharing a burden ever worked out for mankind huh? WW1, WW2, public funding of schools, hospitals, infrastructure development such as road networks, scientific research to cure disease and invent things such as the internet and iPhones.

 

Recently in the US a woman got her leg caught between a train and the platform, her fellow commuters rescued her, saving her life, but one of her legs was badly injured. The woman pleaded with people not to call an ambulance because..........she would not be able to afford the bill.

Is this really the type of society you want to live in.

Bugger everyone else, I'm alright thanks Jack........(until you're not alright and then what?)

I guess for you it is - that is why you're such an ardent supporter of Prayuth and the Watchman and all they stand for.

 

Your making assumptions, fact remains they took out debt and that is most likely caused by overspending. Nowhere does it say medical bills or schooling bills. Fact is too that teachers make more then the average Thai. So overspending sounds right. Then you got lefties like you who want others to pay for their problems. But when i said you help them you remained silent. That is typical of lefties they want others to pick up the bill but never themselves. 

 

I am not for the 1% I am not in that group I am pro middle class and pro sensible people who don''t buy new if they cant afford it. I find it sickening that people who do pay of their debts never get helped but people who overspend get helped. So in essence rewarding good behavior. Tell me why you want to shaft people who do pay but help people who overspend. Guess you cant that is the weakness.

 

The US is totally wrong I come from the Netherlands where we have good healthcare and everyone is insured. Though you got people there too who refuse to pay into the system.. mainly lefties who refuse. They want to benefit from the system but not pay. I guess that is your kind. So what you want is free healthcare.. but you know nothing is free.. someone has to pay.

 

I have always paid my debts, had a mortgage here in Thailand same interest as those teachers.. but i did not splurge out on a huge house just a normal house in between other houses not too expensive 1.2 million. I guess you would have wanted me to buy a expensive house and then ask others to finance it. Live within your means and pay your debts.

 

Yes I am an accountant, that is why i see so much and hate people who don't pay their debts and don't pay for services they used. It bring hardworking middle class people in financial problems because people like you feel they don't have to pay  what is owed.

 

If you can't afford a car .. buy a motorcycle. If yo can afford a 5 million bt house.. buy a cheaper one. These debs all far exceed one million. Sorry if I don't feel pity if someone with my income goes for a 1.2 million bt house why should a teacher be helped if they go for a far more expensive house and car ? Explain me that and don't come with your vague explanations. Tell me why its ok to buy a car if you can't afford it or buy a house that is far too expensive ? 

[pornprong]

13 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your making assumptions, fact remains they took out debt and that is most likely caused by overspending. Nowhere does it say medical bills or schooling bills. Fact is too that teachers make more then the average Thai. So overspending sounds right. Then you got lefties like you who want others to pay for their problems. But when i said you help them you remained silent. That is typical of lefties they want others to pick up the bill but never themselves. 

 

I am not for the 1% I am not in that group I am pro middle class and pro sensible people who don''t buy new if they cant afford it. I find it sickening that people who do pay of their debts never get helped but people who overspend get helped. So in essence rewarding good behavior. Tell me why you want to shaft people who do pay but help people who overspend. Guess you cant that is the weakness.

 

The US is totally wrong I come from the Netherlands where we have good healthcare and everyone is insured. Though you got people there too who refuse to pay into the system.. mainly lefties who refuse. They want to benefit from the system but not pay. I guess that is your kind. So what you want is free healthcare.. but you know nothing is free.. someone has to pay.

 

I have always paid my debts, had a mortgage here in Thailand same interest as those teachers.. but i did not splurge out on a huge house just a normal house in between other houses not too expensive 1.2 million. I guess you would have wanted me to buy a expensive house and then ask others to finance it. Live within your means and pay your debts.

 

Yes I am an accountant, that is why i see so much and hate people who don't pay their debts and don't pay for services they used. It bring hardworking middle class people in financial problems because people like you feel they don't have to pay  what is owed.

 

If you can't afford a car .. buy a motorcycle. If yo can afford a 5 million bt house.. buy a cheaper one. These debs all far exceed one million. Sorry if I don't feel pity if someone with my income goes for a 1.2 million bt house why should a teacher be helped if they go for a far more expensive house and car ? Explain me that and don't come with your vague explanations. Tell me why its ok to buy a car if you can't afford it or buy a house that is far too expensive ? 

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist" - Keyser Soze, The Usual Suspects.

 

The greatest trick ever pulled is the rich convincing middle class halfwits that it is the poor who are responsible for middle classes woes.

 

How stupid does one have to be to believe the it is societies weakest, not societies strongest, who exercise excessive control over outcomes.

 

The middle class isn't getting screwed over from those below them, anyone who believes the opposite is just plain dumb.

 

So Robblok, keep on beating the poor over the head with a stick for their imagined crimes spawned from your unhidden prejudices and unwillingness to be accountable for your own failures and inadequacies, keep on supporting coups that ensure inequity remains and rest easy in the knowledge that it is peanuts like you that are preventing meaningful progress towards a fairer society and better quality of life for all.

 

https://www.newamerica.org/weekly/edition-135/rise-and-reign-welfare-queen/

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/12/this-chart-blows-up-the-myth-of-the-welfare-queen/282452/

[robblok]

1 minute ago, pornprong said:

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist" - Keyser Soze, The Usual Suspects.

 

The greatest trick ever pulled is the rich convincing middle class halfwits that it is the poor who are responsible for middle classes woes.

 

How stupid does one have to be to believe the it is societies weakest, not societies strongest, who exercise excessive control over outcomes.

 

The middle class isn't getting screwed over from those below them, anyone who believes the opposite is just plain dumb.

 

So Robblok, keep on beating the poor over the head with a stick for their imagined crimes spawned from your unhidden prejudices and unwillingness to be accountable for your own failures and inadequacies, keep on supporting coups that ensure inequity remains and rest easy in the knowledge that it is peanuts like you that are preventing meaningful progress towards a fairer society and better quality of life for all.

 

https://www.newamerica.org/weekly/edition-135/rise-and-reign-welfare-queen/

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/12/this-chart-blows-up-the-myth-of-the-welfare-queen/282452/

You never addressed the topic at hand of living within ones means. That says enough you don't have a case at all. 

 

You come up with vague deflections and never gave an explanation why a teacher would need a car if he cant afford it or why a 1 million bt house is not enough ?

 

Strange that the people not paying my middle class clients are not the rich but the poor who seem to think they have what they want without paying for it and destroy small companies in doing so. I guess you would not believe someone with real life experience and proof but like to keep blaming the rich for everything. I am no fan of the 1% but unlike you I don't blame them for everything. 

 

So ill ask you.. why buy a car when you can afford it and why buy a house of over 1 million if you can't afford it and wont settle for a cheaper home ?

 

Why would people who overspend need to be saved while those who accept less and service their debts get no help ?

 

Ill wait for your next deflection without ever addressing the points I made.

 

 

[pornprong]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

You never addressed the topic at hand of living within ones means. That says enough you don't have a case at all. 

Life is life.

Circumstances can change in an instant.

What is affordable today may break the bank tomorrow.

 

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

You come up with vague deflections and never gave an explanation why a teacher would need a car if he cant afford it or why a 1 million bt house is not enough ?

Who is to know why anyone needs anything?

Maybe the teacher has a sick mother who he must take to the hospital on a regular basis and purchasing a car is the best solution.

What would you recommend - he let his mother die?

 

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Strange that the people not paying my middle class clients are not the rich but the poor who seem to think they have what they want without paying for it and destroy small companies in doing so. I guess you would not believe someone with real life experience and proof but like to keep blaming the rich for everything. I am no fan of the 1% but unlike you I don't blame them for everything. 

How much did the bank bailout cost American taxpayers?

How much did the Thai taxpayers lose bailing out the rich in the 1997 crash?

How much is spent globally on corporate welfare each year?

 

You exhibit an extreme inability to lay blame for anything anywhere other than at the feet of the poor or Thaksin.

 

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

So ill ask you.. why buy a car when you can afford it and why buy a house of over 1 million if you can't afford it and wont settle for a cheaper home ?

Why do you so readily always assume the worst about the poor and always give the likes of Prayuth and Suthep the benefit of any doubt, no matter how minuscule or none existent it may be?

 

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Why would people who overspend need to be saved while those who accept less and service their debts get no help ?

Do you seriously believe that only those who overspend end up in financial distress?

 

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Ill wait for your next deflection without ever addressing the points I made.

Your points, like always, are nonsense.

To be expected though from anyone who thinks coups are good ideas.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, pornprong said:

Life is life.

Circumstances can change in an instant.

What is affordable today may break the bank tomorrow.

 

Who is to know why anyone needs anything?

Maybe the teacher has a sick mother who he must take to the hospital on a regular basis and purchasing a car is the best solution.

What would you recommend - he let his mother die?

 

How much did the bank bailout cost American taxpayers?

How much did the Thai taxpayers lose bailing out the rich in the 1997 crash?

How much is spent globally on corporate welfare each year?

 

You exhibit an extreme inability to lay blame for anything anywhere other than at the feet of the poor or Thaksin.

  

Why do you so readily always assume the worst about the poor and always give the likes of Prayuth and Suthep the benefit of any doubt, no matter how minuscule or none existent it may be?

  

Do you seriously believe that only those who overspend end up in financial distress?

 

Your points, like always, are nonsense.

To be expected though from anyone who thinks coups are good ideas.

You can't get over yourself, typical lefty. Want others to pay. Why don't you pay.. share your wealth with others ? 

 

You come up with a few exceptions of when people get into trouble when its not overspending. I will agree that its not always ones own fault but the circumstances your talking about is for sure a minority in the group of teachers who don't want to pay. You know it I know it but you you hate to admit it. Because its perfectly logical that all those teachers have sick mothers and need a car.

 

Why the hell do you keep bringing the US into this we are talking about Thailand not the US. 

 

Teachers are not the poor they make more than the average Thai, so why do you count them as the poor ? People working in 711 and farmers those are the poor not teachers. They have a real secure job and with age their salary goes up quite nice. So if poorer people can manage why can't the teachers who have more income. Overspending..

 

You never replied to why they need a house that is more then 1 million.. you just said why i blame the poor that is no reply. That is a deflection like i said before. 

 

I don't seriously think that ONLY those who overspend end up in financial distress, but they are the majority especially in this group the teachers who already make more then the average Thai. So why can others who make less stay out of debt but the teachers not ? I guess that is too hard for you to answer.

 

Your a bit obsessed by Thaksin and the junta, why bring them in a topic that is not about them at all. Nothing political about this topic why make it political ?. 

 

 

[pornprong]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

You can't get over yourself, typical lefty. Want others to pay. Why don't you pay.. share your wealth with others ? 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-supporters-dunning-kruger-effect-213904

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

You come up with a few exceptions of when people get into trouble when its not overspending. I will agree that its not always ones own fault but the circumstances your talking about is for sure a minority in the group of teachers who don't want to pay. You know it I know it but you you hate to admit it. Because its perfectly logical that all those teachers have sick mothers and need a car.

You and I don't know why these people borrow. We don't know their circumstances, their misfortunes, their hopes or their dreams. You assume the worst of them all because it suits the narrative you tell yourself to justify your own failures and short-comings.

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Why the hell do you keep bringing the US into this we are talking about Thailand not the US. 

The Erawan Trust!

 

The FIDF spent a total of 1.4 Trillion baht in supporting and purchasing of assets from financial institutions as a direct result of the Asian Crisis in 1995 - 1998. 
In October 2010, the Ministry of Finance revealed that the outstanding debt of the FIDF was still 1.1 Trillion baht, with yearly interest payments totaling 65 Billion baht. It's total assets were just 200 Billion baht.

 

To put that into perspective - Yingluck's rice scheme "lost" just 200 -

280 billion baht

http://slimdogsworld.blogspot.com

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Teachers are not the poor they make more than the average Thai, so why do you count them as the poor ? People working in 711 and farmers those are the poor not teachers. They have a real secure job and with age their salary goes up quite nice. So if poorer people can manage why can't the teachers who have more income. Overspending..

Teachers aren't rich, if they were, they wouldn't be in such trouble over such small loans.

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

You never replied to why they need a house that is more then 1 million.. you just said why i blame the poor that is no reply. That is a deflection like i said before.

Aspiration.

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I don't seriously think that ONLY those who overspend end up in financial distress, but they are the majority especially in this group the teachers who already make more then the average Thai. So why can others who make less stay out of debt but the teachers not ? I guess that is too hard for you to answer.

There you go again, thinking the worst of the poor whilst giving the rich a free pass.

 

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Your a bit obsessed by Thaksin and the junta, why bring them in a topic that is not about them at all. Nothing political about this topic why make it political ?. 

The socio-economic status of Thailand is most definitely political.

You and your coup supporting mates don't want the voice of the majority to be heard so that the status quo remains in place.

 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, pornprong said:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-supporters-dunning-kruger-effect-213904

 

You and I don't know why these people borrow. We don't know their circumstances, their misfortunes, their hopes or their dreams. You assume the worst of them all because it suits the narrative you tell yourself to justify your own failures and short-comings.

 

The Erawan Trust!

 

The FIDF spent a total of 1.4 Trillion baht in supporting and purchasing of assets from financial institutions as a direct result of the Asian Crisis in 1995 - 1998. 
In October 2010, the Ministry of Finance revealed that the outstanding debt of the FIDF was still 1.1 Trillion baht, with yearly interest payments totaling 65 Billion baht. It's total assets were just 200 Billion baht.

 

To put that into perspective - Yingluck's rice scheme "lost" just 200 -

280 billion baht

http://slimdogsworld.blogspot.com

 

Teachers aren't rich, if they were, they wouldn't be in such trouble over such small loans.

  

Aspiration.

 

There you go again, thinking the worst of the poor whilst giving the rich a free pass.

 

The socio-economic status of Thailand is most definitely political.

You and your coup supporting mates don't want the voice of the majority to be heard so that the status quo remains in place.

 

 

According to you everyone is in debt is a victim of unfortunate circumstances.. while reality is far different. You believe in rewarding bad behavior bailing people out. You must have been in favor of the governments bailing the banks out. I was against it.. same like I am against bailing people out now. You either support both or are against both. 

 

Unlike you i believe that we make our own destiny and our own decisions. Sure some people get in over their head and have unfortunate circumstances but they are certainly not the majority but you choose to believe otherwise logic was never your strong suit.

 

I don't assume the worst, i think logical and look at facts. People having problems and getting in over their head.. sure it happens.. but that is never a majority. The majority just spends it on consumer goods, houses, cars. I seen it quite a few times with Thais I know. Too bad that does not suit your world view where nobody has any responsibility and should be bailed out (not with your money that is not the left wing way others have to pay for it)

 

I am not pro the ultra rich, I am pro hard working middle class.. have always been that way. I believe in working hard and taking responsibility not getting bailed out for irresponsible behavior. I actually feel its a crime that people who do pay of debt who do moderate their spending never get rewarded.. but those who mess up get bailed out. 

 

As for Thrump... I don't support the guy at all I think the guy is a total idiot. But I prefer not to comment on him as it totally derails topics. There are enough topic about him already.. go post there and pick a discussion with someone who wants to defend him. Not me. 

 

Will be my last post in this topic.. i keep rehashing my arguments and you keep bring in crazy assumptions. Have fun. 

 

 

[Elkski]

You guys can quit fighting your both right. the sad thing is many humans in 2018 on the world Earth, third planet from the Sun are not educated enough to take the responsibility of signing their life away with a tricky loan skeem. In the very detailed case that I know it's a sad story indeed. fairly typical in How the Thai husband left the woman at 35 with two children that he did not support. yes they bought a house that was probably to big and they had to fill in the land to build on the rice  patty. during this terrible time she proceeded to earn a masters degree so she could become a school director and incurred more loans to support her schooling and family. sure I think she goes out with friends and the directors are always gathering in groups in the eat and drink in typical Western fashion. her undergraduate was in English and so many of her friends are very familiar with the Western ways.  why don't we blame the price of beer? how can the price of beer be equal to or greater than the beer I can buy in my store when labor is 1/8 the cost?  And why are car prices do high? anyway this woman is now basically underwater at 45 with loans that go until she is 68 and I could not figure a way out other than risking to much of my capital.  I read and studied and inquired about bankruptcy in another thread. An individual can't declare bankruptcy, only creditors can.  Read up on this before you condemn.  Government workers are under threat of losing their commission and livelihood if they don't pay or do go into bankruptcy.  Tell me a Western country where these are the rules?      Crickets??

I was not willing to bail her out and so I took off my list of candidates. She is  possibly one of the sweetest, funnest, most loving, passionate, women I will ever meet. just two years ago she was able to take out the loan for 200 k? I don't know how this is possible when her current loan payments were already 60-80 percent of her net income. 

I don't actually know how anyone can carry so much burden and it shows in her face that looks 10 years older than her age which means 20 years older than a typical Thai woman. 

 

 

it will be quite interesting to learn the exact details of this private loan company.  One official has raised this question.  How did this private company get into the government loan business how is a private company able to get this much guarantee?  they are the ones who took the risk,  they may be losing their ass soon but I'm sure they've made a lot of profit in the last 10 years. 

I also think it will be interesting to learn about who has made profit from the life insurance policy part of this charade. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Elkski

[mommysboy]

10 hours ago, robblok said:

I like most of your posts but your a bit naive, of course they want their debts cancelled. Unlike you i feel if you borrow far too much and bought stuff with it you will have to pay back. Unlike you i believe in own responsibility you seem to hate banks and feel that they or the government should pay. Guess what if the government pays we all pay for others their faults.

 

People who do manage their debts good get shafted while bad behavior gets rewarded. Talk about living in a strange world. First living the high life with borrowed money and then not paying back and having others pay for you.. well done sets a good example. 

 

I do hate banks that indulge in these sort of activities.  Basically it's extortion.  I believe that the teachers are partly responsible for their predicament and should always remain liable for the principle sum- the amount they borrowed. 

 

The scheme should be regarded as unlawful and the contract cancelled. By restructuring the debt, the teachers will have to pay back the money they borrowed, but not the crippling interest that comes with it.  The insurance that appears to come with it should be cancelled and the money returned to the teachers.  Needless to say, there will be no death benefits.

 

Quite what punishments the banks and governments should face is really a matter for an independent committee to decide.  

 

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

10 hours ago, robblok said:

Yea right.. thing is i seen many of these people far more then you ever have as I worked with people like that who got in over their had back home. So if you think I have no clue, think again. I worked with a company that helped people who were into debt. It was almost always caused by overspending on luxury items.

I guess you havent read the news about the 1,5 million new cars bought ? The cause is overspending living without their means and now they want others to finance it. 

 

Go back home.. I had a mortgage here at the prices you mentioned so tell me how do I not know. When you take a debt you check if you can afford it if not you don't take it. Its that simple. 

 

Your sentiment about a home.. I would only buy a home within my means and most Thais don't buy homes because they are real transient. Not many put down real roots as their jobs can move a lot. 

 

Like i said.. if you can't pay don't buy a new car ore an expensive home. Why don't you pay for them if you feel so badly for them.  I feel that people should live within their means and if they don't tough luck for them. These teachers had more salary as the average Thai so what does that say ? 

Most of the people I know who got into financial trouble in the West and went Bankrupt, was because a loss of employment, or a marriage breakdown, or in many cases both of these.

 

Sure most of these people had a mortgage, and car payments to make, but as you know that in the West to get loans like this, you need to qualify first. So they qualified for the loans when they made the purchases.

 

But in a marriage breakdown or loss of employemnt, where the couple was living on 2 salaries, and are now both forced to live on one salary, there financial situation changes. They now don't have the money they had before or need now to pay there Bills. So they go Bankrupt.  

[GOLDBUGGY]

11 hours ago, wealthychef said:

I must be the only one here thinking this:  why does education put people in debt?  A civilized society should give education free to all citizens, especially teachers.  They should not need student loans.  When your citizens are educated your society benefits enormously. 

And when they rape their student, they should go to jail,  but that's another subject I guess.  

 

That is a good point. Especially when you consider how much money goes into defense and military equipment. In the Old Communist System University Education was provided free to the brightest students. The not so bright where able to go to Technical Schools to learn some trade. 

 

In a free democratic society, I do think the education should be provided at a lower cost, and at the very least low interest loans made available. To give out free education is not feasible in Canada for instance. One of the problems Canada has is Brain Drain. 

 

So if we educate a person for free for say 7 years, and he becomes a Doctor, one of the first things he will do is move to the USA, or Overseas, where he can earn double the money. So no pay back to the country that educated him for free.

 

There is nothing from stopping them from still doing this now with there own borrowed money, and it still goes on today. Except Canada finds and imports Doctors from another poorer country and pays them double the wages they were paid back home. Until somebody comes up with a better idea, or more money, this will continue with Doctors, Engineers, and so on. I am one of those.   

[GOLDBUGGY]

11 hours ago, robblok said:

Yea right.. thing is i seen many of these people far more then you ever have as I worked with people like that who got in over their had back home. So if you think I have no clue, think again. I worked with a company that helped people who were into debt. It was almost always caused by overspending on luxury items.

I guess you havent read the news about the 1,5 million new cars bought ? The cause is overspending living without their means and now they want others to finance it. 

 

Go back home.. I had a mortgage here at the prices you mentioned so tell me how do I not know. When you take a debt you check if you can afford it if not you don't take it. Its that simple. 

 

Your sentiment about a home.. I would only buy a home within my means and most Thais don't buy homes because they are real transient. Not many put down real roots as their jobs can move a lot. 

 

Like i said.. if you can't pay don't buy a new car ore an expensive home. Why don't you pay for them if you feel so badly for them.  I feel that people should live within their means and if they don't tough luck for them. These teachers had more salary as the average Thai so what does that say ? 

Still waiting for you to show us where it says that Teachers are demanding to have there Loans fogiven and like you said it did. You can't expect somebody else to pay off there loans when none of them are asking for that. But since you didn't I can only assume that by now you know they never said that they wanted there loans forgiven, and it does not exist.

 

Okay! So now you say you took out a Mortgage in Thailand at near the same interest rate as Teachers did, so lets say 8%. You then said you were wiser as you checked to make sure you could afford it first. So does that mean you earn the same income as Teachers do also. An income of between 15,000 Baht to a maximum of 30,000 Baht a month? As to compare yourself to teachers and to talk about affordability, surely you must include you income level as well. No??? So maybe you weren't wiser but only had more money to spare and spend on a Mortgage at the higher rates?

 

But lets get back to your Mortgage. You said you hinted that you paid about 8% Interest Rate. Let me ask you that if the Interest rate was 10%, would you still have mortgaged your property? How about 12%. Or 15%? Or 20%? Or 25%? In otherwords at what Interest Rate would you have refused this Mortgage even if you could afford one?     

[GOLDBUGGY]

11 hours ago, robblok said:

Yea right.. thing is i seen many of these people far more then you ever have as I worked with people like that who got in over their had back home. So if you think I have no clue, think again. I worked with a company that helped people who were into debt. It was almost always caused by overspending on luxury items.

I guess you havent read the news about the 1,5 million new cars bought ? The cause is overspending living without their means and now they want others to finance it. 

 

Go back home.. I had a mortgage here at the prices you mentioned so tell me how do I not know. When you take a debt you check if you can afford it if not you don't take it. Its that simple. 

 

Your sentiment about a home.. I would only buy a home within my means and most Thais don't buy homes because they are real transient. Not many put down real roots as their jobs can move a lot. 

 

Like i said.. if you can't pay don't buy a new car ore an expensive home. Why don't you pay for them if you feel so badly for them.  I feel that people should live within their means and if they don't tough luck for them. These teachers had more salary as the average Thai so what does that say ? 

So I guess your worked for a Collectionn Agency?

 

Well this pretty well explains everhting. You have to be pretty cold hearted to show up at Grandma's Place to take back her TV becuase her husband died and she can't afford the payments anymore on 1 Pension. 

[robblok]

Just now, GOLDBUGGY said:

So I guess your worked for a Collectionn Agency?

  

Well this pretty well explains everhting. You have to be pretty cold hearted to show up at Grandma's Place to take back her TV becuase her husband died and she can't afford the payments anymore on 1 Pension. 

No I worked to help the people that were in debt make sure they got out of it. Not a debt collector, the guy you go to when your debts get too high and you can't make ends meet. But you do learn a lot then HOW people get in debt. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Most of the people I know who got into financial trouble in the West and went Bankrupt, was because a loss of employment, or a marriage breakdown, or in many cases both of these.

 

Sure most of these people had a mortgage, and car payments to make, but as you know that in the West to get loans like this, you need to qualify first. So they qualified for the loans when they made the purchases.

 

But in a marriage breakdown or loss of employemnt, where the couple was living on 2 salaries, and are now both forced to live on one salary, there financial situation changes. They now don't have the money they had before or need now to pay there Bills. So they go Bankrupt.  

Yes, i have seen those too it happens. But that is not the case here with the teachers. They had access to easy money and took too much debt. In the west they do check if you can pay back your debts. I know when my ex took the loan for the house here in Thailand they did similar checks. But somehow teachers and goverment employees can get in debt and do so. 

 

Here in Thailand you see people who cant afford it take expensive cars and bikes. Sorry but I feel that is for a large part own responsibility.  I have never said there are no other reasons like sickness divorce... but I don't think that the majority of teachers. I think they just took the easy money because they could. I am not sure how long you have been here but there have been countless schemes and easy credit for teachers. Sure the bank is also partly responsible but its the teachers who spend the money. 

[robblok]

21 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Still waiting for you to show us where it says that Teachers are demanding to have there Loans fogiven and like you said it did. You can't expect somebody else to pay off there loans when none of them are asking for that. But since you didn't I can only assume that by now you know they never said that they wanted there loans forgiven, and it does not exist.

 

Okay! So now you say you took out a Mortgage in Thailand at near the same interest rate as Teachers did, so lets say 8%. You then said you were wiser as you checked to make sure you could afford it first. So does that mean you earn the same income as Teachers do also. An income of between 15,000 Baht to a maximum of 30,000 Baht a month? As to compare yourself to teachers and to talk about affordability, surely you must include you income level as well. No??? So maybe you weren't wiser but only had more money to spare and spend on a Mortgage at the higher rates?

 

But lets get back to your Mortgage. You said you hinted that you paid about 8% Interest Rate. Let me ask you that if the Interest rate was 10%, would you still have mortgaged your property? How about 12%. Or 15%? Or 20%? Or 25%? In otherwords at what Interest Rate would you have refused this Mortgage even if you could afford one?     

I am still waiting for you to come up with that the teachers want if its not debt forgiveness. Because they have been offered an interest free period and refused. That shows me they want far more then a lower interest rate.

 

Yes at first it was 8 percent went down after a while. It was easy to afford and face it your no financial genius at all or you would know that with an income of 30k  baht you can service a loan of 1.2 million. At 8% that would be something like 9000 bath. Seams reasonable to me. But i guess that they did not settle for a house of ONLY 1.2 million and also wanted a new car or a more expensive house. That is what i mean with living within your means. But the interest rate is less.. so it would be even less then 9000 bt.. I just took this as an high example. So tell me how they did not take out far more then that ?

 

When I first came here my income level was quite low. I actually started at 0 took risks and build up a business. So yea at first I had around 0k per month end of the year 30k per month.  Not anymore.. hard work made sure I have far more then that now. That is why I did not buy an real expensive house to start with. Had I known the income I have now I would have bought a far more expensive house. Its called living within ones means. I guess that is something you never heard of.

 

Your last paragraph does not make much sense at all.. maybe because you lack economic understanding. If interest rates where that high then rents would have been higher too. So if i were to buy or rent would have depended not only on the interest rate but on the difference between renting and buying. 

 

I could not even buy a house when i started working in the Netherlands.. you seem to think that everyone has an automatic right to buy a house right away. Has it ever occurred to you that that is just not the case and sometimes you have to accept you cant afford something and rent. 

 

 

[robblok]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

I do hate banks that indulge in these sort of activities.  Basically it's extortion.  I believe that the teachers are partly responsible for their predicament and should always remain liable for the principle sum- the amount they borrowed. 

 

The scheme should be regarded as unlawful and the contract cancelled. By restructuring the debt, the teachers will have to pay back the money they borrowed, but not the crippling interest that comes with it.  The insurance that appears to come with it should be cancelled and the money returned to the teachers.  Needless to say, there will be no death benefits.

 

Quite what punishments the banks and governments should face is really a matter for an independent committee to decide.  

 

 

Restructuring debt.. if you mean refinance and pay a lower interest rate then sure I can agree with you. Paying no interest at all that would be a bridge to far IMHO.

 

Thing is teachers took the debts.. and more and more as they could it was a perk of the job.. and then they moan when they have to pay it back. Sounds a lot like all those people with student loans who don't want to pay it back.

 

Face it here in Thailand people hate paying back debts and love to take out the maximum and then start moaning when time comes to pay.

 

I am quite understanding if things like a divorce.. sickness or other stuff happen. But I am not understanding when people just take out far more then they can ever pay back. I do agree banks have a duty of care too so both should take a hit. A lower interest percentage would be reasonable.

 

But what i hate about all of this is that all the people who do pay of good never seem to get those benefits but only those who have abused the system. I see this all over the world good behavior is punished. In my country people with money will first have to use that money before they get elderly care. So having saved hard for your old age gets punished while those who did not save a thing spend it all the time get the benefits right away. Same as here.. those who take a too high a debt now get discounts while those that did their best to pay back never see stuff like this.

[GOLDBUGGY]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am still waiting for you to come up with that the teachers want if its not debt forgiveness. Because they have been offered an interest free period and refused. That shows me they want far more then a lower interest rate.

 

Yes at first it was 8 percent went down after a while. It was easy to afford and face it your no financial genius at all or you would know that with an income of 30k  baht you can service a loan of 1.2 million. At 8% that would be something like 9000 bath. Seams reasonable to me. But i guess that they did not settle for a house of ONLY 1.2 million and also wanted a new car or a more expensive house. That is what i mean with living within your means. But the interest rate is less.. so it would be even less then 9000 bt.. I just took this as an high example. So tell me how they did not take out far more then that ?

 

When I first came here my income level was quite low. I actually started at 0 took risks and build up a business. So yea at first I had around 0k per month end of the year 30k per month.  Not anymore.. hard work made sure I have far more then that now. That is why I did not buy an real expensive house to start with. Had I known the income I have now I would have bought a far more expensive house. Its called living within ones means. I guess that is something you never heard of.

 

Your last paragraph does not make much sense at all.. maybe because you lack economic understanding. If interest rates where that high then rents would have been higher too. So if i were to buy or rent would have depended not only on the interest rate but on the difference between renting and buying. 

 

I could not even buy a house when i started working in the Netherlands.. you seem to think that everyone has an automatic right to buy a house right away. Has it ever occurred to you that that is just not the case and sometimes you have to accept you cant afford something and rent. 

 

 

Teachers have never been offered an Interest Free Period where they didn't have to pay back. They were only offered a Moratorium Period, which if I recall was 2 years, in which they did not have to make there monthly payments during this time.

 

But this did not mean they got this interest rate free. In fact the interest payments would just add up on the Principle, and this is why most of the Teachers refused this "Moratorium". As to them it just meant higher payments when they resumed payments again.

 

It is crystal clear what the Teachers want! They have been saying so right from the begining. They want lower interest rate loans, and not the 8% they are paying now, and not to have to pay this extra 6% on Default Insurance. As it stands now two thirds of there payment goes towards the interest payment, and one third towards the Principle. May not sound too bad on an Ammortized Loan, but these loans are not Ammortized. When half of the Principle is paid off, the same amount of money is going towards paying that Principle. So in affect this Interest rate now becomes 16%. 

 

Govenments are constantly lending money to banks at very low Interest Rates. That is how they set the Prime Lending Rates. So why not do this to the Teachers Bank? After all this bank was set up to be a benefit to the Teachers. 

 

Everyone I know started out in life renting a place from somebody else, so this is not something new to the Netherlands. But with a good education and job after University, it was a lot easier getting your first loan. Mine was for a New Car  with very little money down.   

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Teachers have never been offered an Interest Free Period where they didn't have to pay back. They were only offered a Moratorium Period, which if I recall was 2 years, in which they did not have to make there monthly payments during this time.

 

But this did not mean they got this interest rate free. In fact the interest payments would just add up on the Principle, and this is why most of the Teachers refused this "Moratorium". As to them it just meant higher payments when they resumed payments again.

 

It is crystal clear what the Teachers want! They have been saying so right from the begining. They want lower interest rate loans, and not the 8% they are paying now, and not to have to pay this extra 6% on Default Insurance. As it stands now two thirds of there payment goes towards the interest payment, and one third towards the Principle. May not sound too bad on an Ammortized Loan, but these loans are not Ammortized. When half of the Principle is paid off, the same amount of money is going towards paying that Principle. So in affect this Interest rate now becomes 16%. 

 

Govenments are constantly lending money to banks at very low Interest Rates. That is how they set the Prime Lending Rates. So why not do this to the Teachers Bank? After all this bank was set up to be a benefit to the Teachers. 

 

Everyone I know started out in life renting a place from somebody else, so this is not something new to the Netherlands. But with a good education and job after University, it was a lot easier getting your first loan. Mine was for a New Car  with very little money down.   

If you read the stories that were posted they were paying between 5 and 7 percent not 8 I went along with your number to show that even at 8 percent it would not be too much to service a debt. 

 

If you are right and they offered 2 years of non payment then I would not have gone for it either if it meant interest kept piling up that is no solution. I would certainly understand if they wanted to refinance at a lower rate. That is something many people do and completely normal. 

 

If you know that everyone stared out renting first then why do you keep on going about that everyone has a right to a home. I feel that people should live within their means. When i first started out I could not do everything I wanted I had to accept that. Why do you find it strange that I expect the same of others. If your salary only allows you a house of 1 million but you buy one of 2 million who is there then to blame. My first care was second hand and for a long time I did not even own a car.  I went to my work on a bike.

 

So I really don't get it why people live beyond their means and then complain. That is my gripe.. not with people who get in over their head because of.. divorce, sickness, loss of job. But I just have little empathy for those that just overspend. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

If you read the stories that were posted they were paying between 5 and 7 percent not 8 I went along with your number to show that even at 8 percent it would not be too much to service a debt. 

 

If you are right and they offered 2 years of non payment then I would not have gone for it either if it meant interest kept piling up that is no solution. I would certainly understand if they wanted to refinance at a lower rate. That is something many people do and completely normal. 

 

If you know that everyone stared out renting first then why do you keep on going about that everyone has a right to a home. I feel that people should live within their means. When i first started out I could not do everything I wanted I had to accept that. Why do you find it strange that I expect the same of others. If your salary only allows you a house of 1 million but you buy one of 2 million who is there then to blame. My first care was second hand and for a long time I did not even own a car.  I went to my work on a bike.

 

So I really don't get it why people live beyond their means and then complain. That is my gripe.. not with people who get in over their head because of.. divorce, sickness, loss of job. But I just have little empathy for those that just overspend. 

Read the second part to this Post were is says (and I quote) “But now the interest rate has increased to 8 per cent,” he complained.  

 

Gosh! Now you have me chasing for your Post to prove you are wrong as you are too lazy to do that yourself or even read them. Well that was the last one I will do for you. 

 

You should also read to know who your audiance is and who you are talking about. We are not talking about University Gradutes fresh out of school and wanting a New House and Car. These Teachers we are talking about are Seasoned Teachers with many of them with years of experience. They even talk about Retired Teachers losing there Homes for Gosh Sake!

 

So Yeah! Highly Educated  Married Teachers wanting there own home should not be out of reach for them anymore than it is for them in the Netherlands. A Modest Home for 1.2 M Baht should be within there means. And Please read the Post before you comment more!.    

[Elkski]

From what I read Thai uni degrees don't impart the same as a Western Uni.  But from my experience Thai people don't seem to plan very well.  They say I think to much.  It will bring Ill health. They say it gives them a headache. Also the understanding of interest rates and time value of money must be taboo teachings.   

I think what we have here is done bankers looked at history and saw s ripe stupid population to rape.  Some of you Defender's remind me of people who defended the tobacco industry.  Wait till the emails come out showing the bankers one this was going to happen.   They have this contingency covered.   Don't be do naive.   And you guys quit arguing.    You don't know any of these teachers and their situation.   

But yes I think they overspent.  But they were the first generation with a uni degree, a chance for a house, a car is needed for many teachers in rural Thailand.   Some of your numbers are off.   Many teachers make 45,000-55,000/ mo. Even 60,000 . I have seen a salary listing.  

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Yes, i have seen those too it happens. But that is not the case here with the teachers. They had access to easy money and took too much debt. In the west they do check if you can pay back your debts. I know when my ex took the loan for the house here in Thailand they did similar checks. But somehow teachers and goverment employees can get in debt and do so. 

 

Here in Thailand you see people who cant afford it take expensive cars and bikes. Sorry but I feel that is for a large part own responsibility.  I have never said there are no other reasons like sickness divorce... but I don't think that the majority of teachers. I think they just took the easy money because they could. I am not sure how long you have been here but there have been countless schemes and easy credit for teachers. Sure the bank is also partly responsible but its the teachers who spend the money. 

 

By and large I agree with your posts above and below.

 

Dont see any reason for the Governent to sort out teacher's debts.

 

In typical Thai style teachers took the easy way and grabbed more money than is responsible

and now they want the Thai society to pay off their debts.

 

This is no way to spend taxpayers money.

 

[utalkin2me]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Restructuring debt.. if you mean refinance and pay a lower interest rate then sure I can agree with you. Paying no interest at all that would be a bridge to far IMHO.

 

Thing is teachers took the debts.. and more and more as they could it was a perk of the job.. and then they moan when they have to pay it back. Sounds a lot like all those people with student loans who don't want to pay it back.

 

Face it here in Thailand people hate paying back debts and love to take out the maximum and then start moaning when time comes to pay.

 

I am quite understanding if things like a divorce.. sickness or other stuff happen. But I am not understanding when people just take out far more then they can ever pay back. I do agree banks have a duty of care too so both should take a hit. A lower interest percentage would be reasonable.

 

But what i hate about all of this is that all the people who do pay of good never seem to get those benefits but only those who have abused the system. I see this all over the world good behavior is punished. In my country people with money will first have to use that money before they get elderly care. So having saved hard for your old age gets punished while those who did not save a thing spend it all the time get the benefits right away. Same as here.. those who take a too high a debt now get discounts while those that did their best to pay back never see stuff like this.

You blame the banks for that. When people stop paying debt, good customers pay. You are right, because they put in their terms they can do whatever the hell they want. 

 

That is the big mistake I feel people always make. They say, "if so and so don't pay back their debt, I have to pay more". That is true, bit you blame the banks! Not the guy who pays for his grandma's $20,000 surgery. Same situation in the insurance industries. People get the blame, but it is always the greedy corporations who deserve the blame. 

[utalkin2me]

My turning point when it came to all creditrs and banks came aboit ten years ago. Credit scores run our entire lives over here. 

 

I was in a situation once where I had about 5k in credit card debt, I had very high credit scores, and the credit card companies just decided to take away the amount of funds available to me. 

 

At that point, my debt to maximum loan ratio skyrocketed, and my credit score plummeted. But I did not to a damn thing to deserve that.

 

Since credit scores run your life, and these companies make it so they can essentially do whatever they want to the credit scores, I said screw them. I will play their own game and do my own screwing whenever I can. They do it, why should i just sit back and take it?

 

As the previous poster astutley pointed out, the people who pay on time and never default always are the losers. They pay for all the people who default. That is why, if you want to play this game, do not be one of the suckers who just pays everything or you are going to come out loser in the end. It is a game, and if you can play it the best you can or you are the sucker paying for everyone's defaults. 

 

There are legit books out there written about this stuff: hoe to stick it to cc companies and default and negotiate your way out of your debt after it goes to collections. It is all a game, and the heros of society are the ones playing it well. So channel your inner Tyler Durden and do it. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by utalkin2me

[garyk]

Cut out the gambling and that would solve a lot of the problems.

I have never known such gambling until i met a few teachers in Issan. 

Gambling parties every weekend. Wow.

 

[utalkin2me]

There should be much more pushback from society onto these banking and credit card companies.

 

I honestly do not think the average person realizes or puts the time into thinking about how bad they are sticking it to everyone.

 

First, you essentially have to have a credit score to function in society. You can't rent an apartment without a good credit score. So, right there you are forced into using their products. 

 

So everyone is forced into using their products, and guess what, they get a piece of every single credit card transaction. Did you just buy something from amazon, or purchase a flight? The cc company got 2-3% of that from the vendor. 

 

We are forced into using them, and then they collect fees every single time they are used. Just imagine getting a peice of pretty much every single transaction worldwide. Imagine if you opened a company and sold stereos, and every single person had to buy stereos from you. It sounds insane and yes, it is. It is criminal as far as I am concerned. That is just scraping the surface too. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by utalkin2me

[jerojero]

Why must they urgently deal with personal finance problems of individual citizens? Did the government force individual teachers into excessive debt? No.

[Elkski]

1 hour ago, jerojero said:

Why must they urgently deal with personal finance problems of individual citizens? Did the government force individual teachers into excessive debt? No.

does your home country allow you to take out more loans when you are already paying 60% of your net pay in loan payments?  Have you ever heard of loans ARM loans like this intertwined with life insurance? is bankruptcy   allowed in your home country>? Will you lose your job if you file for bankruptcy in your home country?   Is the education system better in your home country?  does your country allow you to engage in loans that last 8 years past your countries retirement age.? Does your home country have child support laws? Does your country have a social security system?  lots of differences here. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Elkski