Expat volunteers in Chiang Mai denied visas in work permit standoff

[stillhereandlovinit]

13 hours ago, ukrules said:

You can't blanket ban everyone.

Yep they can.

[arithai12]

8 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

Although I am sure what you say is true about these 2 guys abusing the system it does not mean the immigration department should stop issuing visas. There are many people that abuse the system in many different roles, student visa springs to mind. I have some friends volunteering here, genuinely so. They are working for a charity organisation that houses abandoned babies until a home can be found. They get zero money from anyone, 100% volunteering their time. They both have valuable experience, 1 a retired teacher and the other a  retired social worker,,, however they are jumping through hoops and being pressed with questions as if they are criminals to get their visas and permits sorted out. 

 

To be honest I would not bother, instead if i wanted to help less fortunate I would go somewhere who welcomes you into their country and treats you with some respect,,, the unfortunate thing is the people who suffer in the end are the ones in most need of help, very sad, very stupid...

 

 

Kudos to your friends, but you (and they) can see that there are also lots of other people who abuse the system. Those are the ones who should be blamed if the system is what it is.

[Benmart]

13 hours ago, Briggsy said:

How many of these volunteers are evangelists?

Many have gone and built schools, nursed the sick and done good work aside from evangelism. I know what I do and it isn't questioning good deeds.

[Benmart]

7 hours ago, balo said:

Plenty of missionaries  in CM .  Most of them are Americans , they have a "call" and want to save the poor souls from the hill tribes like the Akha people. Many of them are disgusting people , sorry to say it. 

Details to support your disgust. First hand experience is always more credible.

[BobBKK]

Just now, Benmart said:

Many have gone and built schools, nursed the sick and done good work aside from evangelism. I know what I do and it isn't questioning good deeds.

 

It's true that many evangelicals have helped the poor hill tribes here when no one else bothered. I am not a Christian but I tend to take the 'half a loaf is better than none' attitude.

 

When it comes to helping the poor I don't care if you're a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu or Pagan Sun Worshiper.

[davidkas]

There is another type of person. 

After I have retired I would like to get a work permit to help as a non paid volunteer to benefit my local community. 

I don’t want anything just something to do that will give me a feeling of having given something. 

How would this affect me, I would already have a visa by marriage?

[BritManToo]

28 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

Although I am sure what you say is true about these 2 guys abusing the system it does not mean the immigration department should stop issuing visas.

 

I think you'll find the immigration dept has only stopped issuing VISAs to people applying on the basis of being a 'Charity Worker' if they can't get a work permit as a Charity worker. Now the 2 guys I knew, were using different charities as fronts and mentioned there was a whole classroom of other foreigners at each meeting. Let's assume I knew 20 foreigners well enough for VISA chats, and 2 of them were on bogus charity VISAs, scaling up (50,000 foreigners in CM) it isn't 1 or 2 people on the bogus charity worker VISA, more like thousands.

People here on retirement/Tourist/marriage VISAs probably don't have any problem helping out at real charities on the side.

 

I remember the Ed. VISA scam, when I unwittingly attended Thai classes as a real student (no Ed VISA required), and most of the other students (on ed VISAs) didn't bother to study, and the teachers didn't bother to teach, as they were only there for the VISA.

Edited August 2, 2018 by BritManToo

[Emster23]

Would these volunteers include missionaries? You know the drill: free language lessons, maybe a meal and hear about their savior. Wolf in lambs clothing imo. Certain Utah based religions expect each follower to "volunteer" for 2 years of spreading the word

[Aupee]

I know I'm not a judge and try not tobe judgemental but from the foregoing opinions I would say that  ' From the home of CC' has hit the nail on the head,I know that inthe UK help is always needed as the governments turn their backs on the local needy in a rush to assist those who are not their own, there is a saying 'charity begins at home' and believe it or not thats where people are falling through the net

[MrMo]

14 hours ago, ukrules said:

This new 'head of the labour office' is clearly not following the rules or doing their job properly.

 

Report them to the main department in Bangkok and get him / her bought into line or fired.

Fired ! ? ! ?   Thai government personnel don't get FIRED.   They just get put on inactive duties to wait out for a nice early retirement followed by a nice little pension.   I have this mental image of a gigantic warehouse out near Don Mueng airport full of Thais in uniform with their feet up on desks.

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, dotpoom said:

If it were me and I just wanted to help my fellow man (irrespective of what country), then I would simply go to another country where my help was welcomed and appreciated....and not be wasting my time with places that just want to put obstacles in my way.

I am assuming all the anti volunteer people on this thread have never been volunteers and are projecting negativity on others to cover for their own sense of guilt for a fully selfish life. The cave volunteers certainly got a different response only weeks ago. Now people no longer believe that there are people who have a genuine drive to help others. Lots of folks, especially young adults, and retired folks are doing good things in this world.  

It's amazing how many people suddenly love the visa rules for this topic. I know people who work with trafficked children, children living with aids, orphans, and so on. Such terrible people, run them all out and just keep the mongers. 

[prism]

13 minutes ago, Emster23 said:

Would these volunteers include missionaries? You know the drill: free language lessons, maybe a meal and hear about their savior. Wolf in lambs clothing imo. Certain Utah based religions expect each follower to "volunteer" for 2 years of spreading the word

There is a "Religious Affairs (RA)" visa for missionaries. 

[The Deerhunter]

14 hours ago, ThaiPauly said:

You couldn't make this stuff up...sheesh

 

They are trying to HELP, they are asking for NOTHING IN RETURN

 

Unbelieveable

Yeah.  What a surprise. I would say "Welcome to Thailand" of that wasn't 

The whole point of the thread.  Self important bureaucrats wanting to make up their own rules to show how clever/important they are.

 

 

[jesimps]

If I was genuinely of that inclination, I'd stick two fingers up to them and go volunteer elsewhere. Somewhere I'd be appreciated.

Ungrateful bar stewards.

 

 

[AlQaholic]

Interesting....so how do you become a volunteer?

[Vacuum]

7 hours ago, balo said:

Plenty of missionaries  in CM .  Most of them are Americans , they have a "call" and want to save the poor souls from the hill tribes like the Akha people. Many of them are disgusting people , sorry to say it. 

They are employed and have a quite nice salary, including free accomodation (usually a big house with gardener and maid included).

[suzannegoh]

14 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

Never heard about this till now (maybe cause I never looked for a back door in). There must be some legitimate volunteer work happening don't you think? Is this a case of a few bad apples.... Honestly looking for answers cause like I said I wasn't aware of this.

There are plenty of legitimate ones and most of the bogus ones and evangelicals are no more harmful to Thailand than the average ED or retirement visa holder.  But I didn't interpret the story to be saying that no volunteers were being issued work permits but that certain ones weren't.  Is that a wrong interpretation?

Edited August 2, 2018 by suzannegoh

[chivo]

14 hours ago, Briggsy said:

How many of these volunteers are evangelists?

Culture eradicators. 

[BritManToo]

26 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I know people who work with trafficked children, children living with aids, orphans, and so on. Such terrible people, run them all out and just keep the mongers. 

One of the guys I knew used to go on frequent trips to Mai Sai for the youngest girls he could get. He would have been totally up for working with your 'trafficked children and orphans'. The other guy was quite a nice chap, just too young, and too poor to get any other long-term VISA to live in Thailand.

If it were my country, I wouldn't have let either of them in.

Edited August 2, 2018 by BritManToo

[Boatfreak]

I run a charity for disabled here in Thailand (yes for free), I am desperately looking for people to help me but everybody is sh..t scared to help because they are on a retirement visa and afraid to get caught. I don't even bother to reply to all the help offered from abroad as I know that it would be a total nightmare to find them a visa. The locals on a very few exception could not care less about the disabled. Sometimes I am so desperate I consider giving it all up go sit down with the other moaners at the farang bar and complain about the damn "foreigners" the whole day, 

[chivo]

47 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

It's true that many evangelicals have helped the poor hill tribes here when no one else bothered. I am not a Christian but I tend to take the 'half a loaf is better than none' attitude.

 

When it comes to helping the poor I don't care if you're a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu or Pagan Sun Worshiper.

But the christian missionaries give help with strings attached. It’s a trade. You join their club, they give you medicine. I’ve researched how they forbid Akha from singing their traditional songs. How the forbid the akha from worshipping their own ancestors and instruct them to worship christian ancestors. 

[suzannegoh]

11 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

They are employed and have a quite nice salary, including free accomodation (usually a big house with gardener and maid included).

Farangs seem to deeply object to evangelicals having a similar standard of living here as they would back home.  I can't count how many times I've heard farangs complain about them eating at Duke's.  "What horrible people, spending 1000 Baht on a meal. For that I could get 12 beers at Mad Dogs!"  Seems to be some envy at play there.

Edited August 2, 2018 by suzannegoh

[Cereal]

I'm not sure if this is lazy, biased, duplicitous reporting or merely an envelope that was a little too light for grasping hands.

[canuckamuck]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

One of the guys I knew used to go on frequent trips to Mai Sai for the youngest girls he could get. He would have been totally up for working with your 'trafficked children and orphans'. The other guy was quite a nice chap, just too young, and too poor to get any other long-term VISA to live in Thailand.

If it were my country, I wouldn't have let either of them in.

There are laws against what the first guy was doing. And foreigners are not the main perpetrators of that either. You didn't say what the other guy was actually doing or how he manged to get a work permit to do it.

[cardinalblue]

Many of you guys are wrong in how to handle it...there needs to be a process and then follow up case by case... That's the job of hoc officials...

 

this is a clear example of throwing the baby out with the bath water...

 

you must have a proper procedure that does not eliminate legitimate volunteers...

 

the quality of the procedure flushes out scammers...

[ratchaburi]

Thaivisa understands the labor department in Chiang Mai has not been issuing work permits for foreign volunteers, with immigration then saying "sorry, we can't issue you visas as you don't have a work permit", said the source.

 

Above don't sound right to me, as you need a to have Non B Visa before you can apply for a Work Permit.?

[peterb17]

1 hour ago, davidkas said:

There is another type of person. 

After I have retired I would like to get a work permit to help as a non paid volunteer to benefit my local community. 

I don’t want anything just something to do that will give me a feeling of having given something. 

How would this affect me, I would already have a visa by marriage?

 

I realise perfectly well that this idea may not appeal - if you wish to get involved and help - join Rotary .

It does depend on the club and it is just a suggestion. Rotary has Royal patronage - there are never ever any problems with a WP .

 

[Peterw42]

If legitimate volunteers are being denied Visa's then that is unfortunate, I suspect, as others have said, its a crackdown on the charity "business".  

 

I was offered a volunteer position a few years ago that turned out to be little more than a pyramid scheme with a free visa. You signed up with the organisation (save the bargirl, soidog, endangered fruit bat etc) they got you a volunteer visa and work permit. Your job was then to get donations from your home country and keep a commission. You were encouraged to sign up people under you to do the same, and you got a cut of what they collected. As far as I know there was no saving the endangered fruit bat activity and no checks by anyone. 

 

Unfortunate for the legitimate organisations and volenteers but its always been an "industry", set up a charity to get a visa and an income.

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Peterw42

[Shiver]

Tough one to administer.  If they're not gainfully employed then they're not taking jobs, so no work permit required.  On the other hand, if your volunteer efforts are cleaning the beaches or something and you do it of your own volition, then a charity is not appropriate either.

 

Maybe if they can prove that they don't have income from within Thailand where money is brought from outside of Thailand (only really works in a cashless society I guess), then I see no reason why they should be denied a visa.

 

As we've seen, foreigners from various parts of the world often have a different skill set and effective ways of solving problems.  That's notionally an asset to the country (okay that needs qualifying).

 

No easy way around it as I see it if they insist on this form of administration.  I had issues with a visa for different reasons (I didn't qualify for any of them), so I had to dump 500K for 5 years equivalent of visa 'freedom' to make the problem go away.  If they had a pop at me for picking up litter I'd be seriously miffed.

[lanista]

I once offered my time to an international aid foundation in Laos. 

They wanted me to give them 1000 dollars as a sign on fee  plus  320 dollars a month rent living in a dump plus pay for your own food..............Unbelievable.  And i work without pay and no insurance coverage.

I told them to F#@K off !

Asians have become so arrogant towards westerners they think theyre doing us a favour letting us pay them so we can do charity work.

 

I will never bother to offer my help again.