A crime or a right? Some Danish Muslims defy face veil ban

[Ks45672]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

It’s a veil not a mask. 

Same difference from a security perspective...... 

 

 

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Ks45672 said:

Same difference from a security perspective...... 

 

 

But not an accurate description one. 

[Ks45672]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

But not an accurate description one. 

Why not allow 70 million UK people to wear balaclavas in public ..... 

 

Society has progressed and Muslims will have to conform to the standards of the free world or go back to where they came from

 

 

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, Ks45672 said:

Why not allow 70 million UK people to wear balaclavas in public ..... 

 

Society has progressed and Muslims will have to conform to the standards of the free world or go back to where they came from

 

 

Ah, now your mask is slipping. 

[taipan1949]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Just as I believe no one should be forced to wear a veil, I believe no one should be forced not to wear one either.

 

“Staying silent is like a slow growing cancer to the soul and a trait of a true coward. There is nothing intelligent about not standing up for yourself. You may not win every battle. However, everyone will at least know what you stood for—YOU.”

 

Shannon L. Alder

If she does not do what her husband commands she will be beaten and maybe even killed. Most of the stupid countries that have allowed muslims to invade rarely prosecute "honor killings" and if they do the guy gets a slap on the wrist.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

 

[Ks45672]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Ah, now your mask is slipping. 

Nobody is allowed in a bank wearing a helmet, baseball cap, sunglasses or scarves

For security reasons 

 

Same at many immigration desks

 

There is no reason to make exceptions for anyone

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, taipan1949 said:

If she does not do what her husband commands she will be beaten and maybe even killed. Most of the stupid countries that have allowed muslims to invade rarely prosecute "honor killings" and if they do the guy gets a slap on the wrist.

No one is invading. 

 

Please quote stories where honour killings/murders result in a slap on the wrist in the West. 

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, taipan1949 said:

If she does not do what her husband commands she will be beaten and maybe even killed. Most of the stupid countries that have allowed muslims to invade rarely prosecute "honor killings" and if they do the guy gets a slap on the wrist.

Stupid is as stupid does. What "invaded" countries are you referring to that rarely prosecute honour killings?

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Ks45672 said:

Nobody is allowed in a bank wearing a helmet, baseball cap, sunglasses or scarves

For security reasons 

 

Same at many immigration desks

 

There is no reason to make exceptions for anyone

This law is not about those things. 

 

There are ways of checking identity for security purposes. 

 

I object to a blanket ban on a choice of wearing a veil. 

 

I support the right to protest such a ban. 

[bristolboy]

40 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

Please provide academic citations: "Objective social scientist would point out to you that cultures are constantly changing and that trying to establish what is a standard is a fool's mission."

INTRODUCTION TO SOCIOLOGY – 1ST CANADIAN EDITION

As the hipster example illustrates, culture is always evolving. Moreover, new things are added to material culture every day, and they affect nonmaterial culture as well. Cultures change when something new (say, railroads or smartphones) opens up new ways of living and when new ideas enter a culture (say, as a result of travel or globalization).

https://opentextbc.ca/introductiontosociology/chapter/chapter3-culture/#section3.3.

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

 (Which I wouldn't put past them.)

 

Nor would I.

Edited August 2, 2018 by lannarebirth

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

" Sociologists distinguish subcultures from countercultures, which are a type of subculture that rejects some of the larger culture’s norms and values. In contrast to subcultures, which operate relatively smoothly within the larger society, countercultures might actively defy larger society by developing their own set of rules and norms to live by, sometimes even creating communities that operate outside of greater society."

 

Where is the 'fools  errand" passage?

Given your new found pretence of ever having attended an academic writing class, can you now at least pretend you you paid attention by providing a link to the source quotation you’ve given.

 

You might also read the TVF ‘fair use’ policy.

[bluesofa]

I realise now why Thailand is mainly a Buddhist country. If more women wore a veil it might be seen as a loss of face.

 

[pokerface1]

I my opinion it's all about the right to hiding your identity vs the technology of the facial recognition. Whats the point of governments investing millions of dollars on a system that doesn't work 100% of the time.

It would not matter which religious group you belonged to, even if a bike group were wearing hoods to covered their faces they would have to comply just a minority of Muslims has to.

Big brother has his eye on everyone there is no escape until your in a pine box.?

[lannarebirth]

37 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

It’s a veil not a mask. 

Here's an example of what a veil looks like:

 

I would suggest that something that conceals the identity of a person is something more than a veil and something more akin to a mask. You are free to believe as you choose.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

Here's an example of what a veil looks like:

 

I would suggest that something that conceals the identity of a person is something more than a veil and something more akin to a mask. You are free to believe as you choose.

Just as there is more than one style of shirt/hat/trousers/insert clothing type here, there is more than one type of veil. 

[TPI]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

There are about 3 million Muslims in the UK. The UK total population is about 65 million. Your statement is only valid if at least 95 percent of Britons were atheists. (Which I wouldn't put past them.)

In Birmingham the white (non muslim) population is down to 54%, check it out....be horrified!

[TPI]

5 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

I realise now why Thailand is mainly a Buddhist country. If more women wore a veil it might be seen as a loss of face.

 

55555555!

[Bluespunk]

.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Bluespunk

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, TPI said:

In Birmingham the white (non muslim) population is down to 54%, check it out....be horrified!

Birmingham has a huge non white nom Muslim population, check it out.

 

You’ll be mortified that you just broadcast your ignorance to the world.

 

But then maybe not.

 

 

[ThaiFelix]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

There are about 3 million Muslims in the UK. The UK total population is about 65 million. Your statement is only valid if at least 95 percent of Britons were atheists. (Which I wouldn't put past them.)

Do you really think you are going to win an argument here by quoting facts, stats and pure logic.....dream on!?

[ThaiFelix]

11 minutes ago, pokerface1 said:

Whats the point of governments investing millions of dollars on a system that doesn't work 100% of the time.

Huh?!   Thailand does it all the time??

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, TPI said:

In Birmingham the white (non muslim) population is down to 54%, check it out....be horrified!

And this is relevant how to the assertions that Muslims are already a majority in the UK?

"The UK "guests"....that were the religious minority...have now become the religious majority"

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

If someone chooses to wear a veil then they should be allowed to do so. 

 

I do not find it frightening. 

 

I find the fact that the state would take the choice to do so away much more troubling. 

I agree they should be allowed to do so in their own cultural setting.  I'd like a drink in Dubai but not allowed and I accept it. I'd like to go to the Wat with shorts on - not allowed and I accept it.

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I agree they should be allowed to do so in their own cultural setting.  I'd like a drink in Dubai but not allowed and I accept it. I'd like to go to the Wat with shorts on - not allowed and I accept it.

You can drink in Dubai. 

 

A blanket ban on citizens wearing a clothing item and a ban in a place of worship are not the same thing.

 

You can wear shorts in most places in Thailand, there is no blanket ban on wearing them. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Bluespunk

[My Thai Life]

The full veil is a practical solution for desert tribes. It has nothing to do with Islam. It is a Saudi custom. 

 

Sadly the western powers' love of oil has allowed the Saudis to increasingly foist their traditions on what were previously more liberal muslim countries in the matter of dress.

 

The fact that so many western "liberals" have been suckered by this narrative is profoundy depressing to me as a lifelong liberal.

 

Islam is the enemy of liberalism.

Edited August 2, 2018 by My Thai Life

[lannarebirth]

52 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Just as there is more than one style of shirt/hat/trousers/insert clothing type here, there is more than one type of veil. 

OK, but I guess the pertinent question is, are you willing to accept government's definition of what is a veil and what is a garment that conceals one's identity?

Edited August 2, 2018 by lannarebirth

[blazes]

The  irony of this veil business is that these women are obeying the commands of some male (some camel herder from a thousand years ago) and they totally fail to see the contradiction that they live.  They think they are "free" and yet they willingly submit themselves to this weird tradition which may once have had some utility in the middle of a sandstorm.....

[Opl]

Excerps from the OP:

"The Danish parliament enacted the face ban in May, joining France and some other European countries to uphold what some politicians say are secular and democratic values.  Under the law, police will be able to instruct women to remove their veils or order them to leave public areas. Justice Minister Soren Pape Poulsen said officers would fine them and tell them to go home. "

 

Then:

- “We need to send a signal to the government that we will not bow to discrimination and a law that specifically targets a religious minority,” Sabina, said as she marched on Wednesday, asking not to be further identified for fear of harassment.

- "Everybody wants to define what Danish values are," said Meryem, 20, who was born in Denmark to Turkish parents and has been wearing the niqab since before meeting her husband, who supports her right to wear it but feels life could be easier without. "

 

Muslims living in non muslim countries should refrain from trying to oppose/defy secular democratic values and stop challenging their host non muslim countries tolerance.

They'd better keep their folklore or traditions at home and avoid giving the feeling they want their faith/culture to be dominant when in conflict with the law.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Opl