"We are not coming back" : Tourists give the thumbs down to Khao San Road changes

[Number 6]

On 8/9/2018 at 8:26 PM, CLW said:

On 8/9/2018 at 7:13 PM, Number 6 said:

 
No one and I've reduced what I take out of the street by 75%. It doesn't mean I want to walk by the mess. After 30 years I don't want to smell it either.
 
It's illegal for them to sell on MRT property but they disregard and I'm sure people are paid.
 
Any MRT that has food being sold out front, but specifics: TCC, Huay Kwang and Sutthisan. Huay Kwang can be really smelly and disgusting as can TCC in particular. HK actually has a X painted on the footpath for everyone and all the poor down the sois to toss their wet, filthy refuse at. TC  as well. Lots of frying, it's disgusting.
 
Any and all areas that have hawkers have huge oil slicks on the paths and streets.
 
Hawkers used to keep a place for years, many just sort of hit and run now. Hot dog fry stands on motorcycles, it's bullshit.
 
The only myth is the one swirling around in your melon that you think you know something about Thailand obviously. Not been here long, it's ok I understand.
 

Old saying but often true. If you don't like it here anymore, move elsewhere but spare your bitter farang anger and resignation for yourself.

What an assinine remark. I was pointing out an issue I am certain every Thai that walks through these areas thinks exactly the same thing. It's unhygienic. This is central Bangkok, not nakon nowhere.

 

Don't like it leave, yeah despite a job in which 800 students depend on me, a wife of nearly ten years and in the region over three coups and nearly three decades. What a rube.

 

[cmsally]

9 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Good move by the local authorities.  The arguments offered in favour of allowing what is for all intents a purposes a filthy area of criminal behaviour are invalid. 

There is nothing really unique to this place that cannot be sampled or seen at proper Thai markets including the multiple  night markets that abound. The arguments given to support the continued  selling of counterfeit and shoddy products sourced by  unethical Chinese suppliers  are ridiculous. Many of the goods sold are unsafe, containing heavy metals, and toxic chemicals. Electrical goods do not meet even the most basic of safety requirements. In plain language, these  hucksters sell crap that ends up in the garbage bin in less than a year. Does the world need more plastic garbage?

 

The road has been nothing but trouble for foreign consulates and the police with its daily  robberies, rapes and tales of woe from  tourists who quickly become victims. The garbage issee is known, and the poor sanitation  can only be solved if the inappropriate  use of roads and sidewalks is stopped. The road was built for transport, not as restaurant and vendor space.

 

There is nothing redeeming or positive about food vendors who are unable to meet the most basic of food sanitation requirements. Some people posting here boast of their delight at eating street food. Good for them. I hope they  have enjoyed the parasites and viruses they have picked up along the way.

 

This place should have been bulldozed long ago. Bangkok must advance and it cannot do this while this free for all continues.

Whilst espousing the doctrine of advancement, it would be helpful to know what the proposed model should be. Surely not another mass of concrete poured into the ground , eating up scarce resources with its constant air conditioning and sanitation issues of its own except often not visible because all the trash is at the back of the hotel/mall.

People throw around the labels of development and advancement but a lot of the people I talk to say Bangkok is not good economically and hasn't been this bad in years. So where is the great prosperity that should arrive with all these 5 star hotels and new shopping malls?

[Number 6]

11 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Whilst espousing the doctrine of advancement, it would be helpful to know what the proposed model should be. Surely not another mass of concrete poured into the ground , eating up scarce resources with its constant air conditioning and sanitation issues of its own except often not visible because all the trash is at the back of the hotel/mall.

People throw around the labels of development and advancement but a lot of the people I talk to say Bangkok is not good economically and hasn't been this bad in years. So where is the great prosperity that should arrive with all these 5 star hotels and new shopping malls?

You have perfectly described it's current state.

 

What it WAS was a road, an open road that was passable on both sides 24 hours a day. Chinese GH dotted the area with no more than 3-4 proper hotels. Almost no one knew or wanted to bother staying off around wat chanasongkram or a  few GH on River side except the hard core travelers.

 

I remember when that park did not even exist. My favorite homestay was across the street. Fan room in a huge Thai wooden home, shared bathroom. An architect owned it and run by his wife.

 

Does that sound like where the roll bag crowd is staying now? No. It's concrete, ac, mini fridge, maid service, mini pool, western toilets, etc. Exactly what they could find in the center of the city, perhaps even for less. Re food choices are absolutely dire and have been for decades. What is sold as Thai food has no resemblance to Thai food because the farang don't know the difference and honestly, farang really don't like Thai food. Hawkers cut corners and completely change the dishes in process.

 

It's a low quality experience that needs an overhaul. It will never be what it was, time marches in and obviously the demands by soft millennials dictate otherwise.

 

But they really do need to allow traffic to flow as it can in these old areas on BKK. It's positively choked.

 

Roll bags - kill me

 

[Thian]

7 hours ago, The manic said:

Perhaps Signapore or North Korea would suit you more than Thailand.

Can't wait to go back to Singapore and eat rendang ordered in english....will do soon.

[sanemax]

On 8/9/2018 at 8:26 PM, CLW said:

On 8/9/2018 at 7:13 PM, Number 6 said:

 

 

Old saying but often true. If you don't like it here anymore, move elsewhere but spare your bitter farang anger and resignation for yourself.

That old saying applies to you more than anyone else .

Thailand IS changing , nothing you can do about that 

If you don't like the changes...............the slums of India arent too far away

[sanemax]

7 hours ago, The manic said:

They spend tons of money.  All year round and it's money that goes directly to Thai families and small businesses.  The backpackers have created enormous wealth around Banglampoo.  When I first stayed on the KSR about 1990 there were no hotels.  The authorities destroyed vibrant areas and thriving communities elsewhere in BKK. Its authoritarian nonsense and bullying.

Its progress , things move on and things change .

I have quite a few friends on facebook , from all over the World , in their 40's

And many are all saying the same thing .

  "Look, they are knocking down the buildings and building new ones , I dont like these changes , it used to be so much better , why cant they just leave things the way they were"

 

[CLW]

Its progress , things move on and things change .
I have quite a few friends on facebook , from all over the World , in their 40's
And many are all saying the same thing .
  "Look, they are knocking down the buildings and building new ones , I dont like these changes , it used to be so much better , why cant they just leave things the way they were"
 

Lol. Progress by all means and for who? You? Who benefits from all this progress? The rich are getting wealthier everyday while the lower class has to struggle to make money for their everyday lives.

One of the key advantages Thailand is / was so attractive is also the low cost of everything here. By your proposed progress locals and tourists suffer.

[CLW]

That old saying applies to you more than anyone else .
Thailand IS changing , nothing you can do about that 
If you don't like the changes...............the slums of India arent too far away

Yes. I think you seem to fit in India much better than me. Their caste system you will like. There you can fulfil your dreams of a superior race reigning your slaves.

[Vacuum]

7 hours ago, The manic said:

They spend tons of money.  All year round and it's money that goes directly to Thai families and small businesses.

Yes, paying taxes is rare.

[CLW]

What an assinine remark. I was pointing out an issue I am certain every Thai that walks through these areas thinks exactly the same thing. It's unhygienic. This is central Bangkok, not nakon nowhere.
 
Don't like it leave, yeah despite a job in which 800 students depend on me, a wife of nearly ten years and in the region over three coups and nearly three decades. What a rube.
 

And I am certain the majority of Thai like the street food, the stalls and the current state of how it is. It has been decades before us farang arrived and complain about everything not being like at home.
If it would be annoying for the Thai population like for you they would have complained already.
Especially now in times of social media etc...

[burningup]

10 minutes ago, CLW said:

Lol. Progress by all means and for who? You? Who benefits from all this progress? The rich are getting wealthier everyday while the lower class has to struggle to make money for their everyday lives.

One of the key advantages Thailand is / was so attractive is also the low cost of everything here. By your proposed progress locals and tourists suffer.

Its a developing country. Are you suggesting they should freeze it in time? perhaps bring back the elephants that use to roam the sois for the pleasure of your amusement? What your suggesting is the opposite of reality. By keeping everything as it is the poor will NEVER be anything but poor. The journey to 1st world will create a huge middle class and eventually making the gap between the rich and the poor smaller, not bigger. Right know the gap is huge and farang greed wants to keep it this way....lets lock the 3rd world charm in! Big bwana knows whats best for Thailand after all

Edited August 12, 2018 by burningup

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, CLW said:

Lol. Progress by all means and for who? You? Who benefits from all this progress? The rich are getting wealthier everyday while the lower class has to struggle to make money for their everyday lives.
One of the key advantages Thailand is / was so attractive is also the low cost of everything here. By your proposed progress locals and tourists suffer.

You seem to view everything as a class war struggle .

Championing the poor and hating the rich .

Hating progress and change .

 

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, CLW said:

32 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That old saying applies to you more than anyone else .
Thailand IS changing , nothing you can do about that 
If you don't like the changes...............the slums of India arent too far away

Yes. I think you seem to fit in India much better than me. Their caste system you will like. There you can fulfil your dreams of a superior race reigning your slaves.

Stop being silly

[CLW]

Its a developing country. Are you suggesting they should freeze it in time? perhaps bring back the elephants that use to roam the sois for the pleasure of your amusement? What your suggesting is the opposite of reality. By keeping everything as it is the poor will NEVER be anything but poor. The journey to 1st world will create a huge middle class and eventually making the gap between the rich and the poor smaller, not bigger. Right know the gap is huge and farang greed wants to keep it this way....lets lock the 3rd world charm in! Big bwana knows whats best for Thailand after all

A middle class in Thailand. Dream on.
It will take decades of political and social changes.
Have you ever been outside of Bangkok?

[Small Joke]

On 8/7/2018 at 9:33 AM, JAG said:

 

It is just possible that tourists, whether dreadlocked backpackers or clean-limbed worldly sophisticates such as myself do not fancy visiting Khao San Road to watch men in paramilitary outfits strutting around giving the local vendors a hard time...

 

That picture rather encapsulates what is happening to this country. Its one reason why, despite all TATs hysterical claims and predictions, western tourism is declining

Even in China, you don't see this level of public control. Police tend to be in cars or buggies, like everywhere else,  and just passing thru. The red army are all but invisible.  I've never seen them In dozens of visits to Shenzen, Hong Kong, and beyond.

I hate to invoke the nazis,  but Thailand with it's love of uniforms (even on university students?) and vastly bloated military are channeling Hitler's boot boys rather too authentically.

[burningup]

Just now, CLW said:

A middle class in Thailand. Dream on.
It will take decades of political and social changes.
Have you ever been outside of Bangkok?

 

What on earth gave you the impression that change would be immediate?. certainly not from my post

[Vacuum]

7 minutes ago, Small Joke said:

Thailand with it's love of uniforms (even on university students

But you'll have to admit that they do look sexy with their uniforms.

[BuckleUp]

Finally can walk in peace without someone shoving (15 baht) tee-shirts for 350 baht in your face every few meters.

Now if only the rest of the country can clean up their footpaths....

Edited August 12, 2018 by BuckleUp

[mommysboy]

12 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Hello, the 1970's called to say that it is now 2018 and time moved on, so should you.  You are breathing the foul fumes of a distant past. Today's Thais who are moving the nation forward neither need nor desire to have this filthy backward place. You argue for a farang ghetto where the debauched and hedonistic desires  of cheap low quality  visitors will be sated.  The country doesn't need them and they bring nothing of value with them.  Adapt to the changes or be left behind with the other farangs who still can't grasp the fact that Thailand isn't the impoverished country they knew 25+ years ago.

Try Singapore... or Switzerland, maybe.  Has it ever crossed your mind that it's you out of place?

[burningup]

21 minutes ago, Small Joke said:

Even in China, you don't see this level of public control. Police tend to be in cars or buggies, like everywhere else,  and just passing thru. The red army are all but invisible.  I've never seen them In dozens of visits to Shenzen, Hong Kong, and beyond.

I hate to invoke the nazis,  but Thailand with it's love of uniforms (even on university students?) and vastly bloated military are channeling Hitler's boot boys rather too authentically.

Its necessary unfortunately. You dont just hand thais a letter requesting they vacate. And when they are forced out they need a strong army or police presence to keep them from crawling back. lower sukhumvit had a police presence for ages and now they are gone the stalls are slowly but surely returning..slowly but surely..one by one

[mommysboy]

59 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Its progress , things move on and things change .

I have quite a few friends on facebook , from all over the World , in their 40's

And many are all saying the same thing .

  "Look, they are knocking down the buildings and building new ones , I dont like these changes , it used to be so much better , why cant they just leave things the way they were"

 

You equate change with progress too easily.  Who benefits from this change too?

[sanemax]

41 minutes ago, CLW said:

Lol. Progress by all means and for who? You? Who benefits from all this progress? The rich are getting wealthier everyday while the lower class has to struggle to make money for their everyday lives.

One of the key advantages Thailand is / was so attractive is also the low cost of everything here. By your proposed progress locals and tourists suffer.

Reclaim the streets for the people .

Get businesses off the streets .

Give the streets back to the people to walk down .

If businesses want to operate , let them do so from shops .

Businesses have no right to occupy the streets , causing pedestrians to have to walk in the road .

Its quite a simple concept .

Shops are for selling things .

Pavements are for walking and roads are for cars .

Reclaim the streets for the people to walk

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, Number 6 said:

You have perfectly described it's current state.

 

What it WAS was a road, an open road that was passable on both sides 24 hours a day. Chinese GH dotted the area with no more than 3-4 proper hotels. Almost no one knew or wanted to bother staying off around wat chanasongkram or a  few GH on River side except the hard core travelers.

 

I remember when that park did not even exist. My favorite homestay was across the street. Fan room in a huge Thai wooden home, shared bathroom. An architect owned it and run by his wife.

 

Does that sound like where the roll bag crowd is staying now? No. It's concrete, ac, mini fridge, maid service, mini pool, western toilets, etc. Exactly what they could find in the center of the city, perhaps even for less. Re food choices are absolutely dire and have been for decades. What is sold as Thai food has no resemblance to Thai food because the farang don't know the difference and honestly, farang really don't like Thai food. Hawkers cut corners and completely change the dishes in process.

 

It's a low quality experience that needs an overhaul. It will never be what it was, time marches in and obviously the demands by soft millennials dictate otherwise.

 

But they really do need to allow traffic to flow as it can in these old areas on BKK. It's positively choked.

 

Roll bags - kill me

 

 

It's one small side road that has been pedestrianised.  

 

The roads are choked because there are already too many vehicles.

 

Clearly, it is a tourist area and tourists like it.  So, it really doesn't matter what you want, since you don't want to go there, and actually... really don't need to.

[mommysboy]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Reclaim the streets for the people .

Get businesses off the streets .

Give the streets back to the people to walk down .

If businesses want to operate , let them do so from shops .

Businesses have no right to occupy the streets , causing pedestrians to have to walk in the road .

Its quite a simple concept .

Shops are for selling things .

Pavements are for walking and roads are for cars .

Reclaim the streets for the people to walk

It has been pedestrianised for the people, ie, it has been reclaimed unlike the rest of bkk. 

 

Go back to Toytown, maybe.

Edited August 12, 2018 by mommysboy

[CLW]

Reclaim the streets for the people .
Get businesses off the streets .
Give the streets back to the people to walk down .
If businesses want to operate , let them do so from shops .
Businesses have no right to occupy the streets , causing pedestrians to have to walk in the road .
Its quite a simple concept .
Shops are for selling things .
Pavements are for walking and roads are for cars .
Reclaim the streets for the people to walk

I think this orderly thinking and especially walking is a farang obsession.
How many Thais are walking more than 100m?

[kannot]

On 8/7/2018 at 8:13 AM, Thian said:

Do you think it was good for the image of BKK and Thailand that the whole world knew that on kao sarn road you can buy fake id's, presscards, university degree's, and probably everything else fake...It was just open on the corner of the street for loads of years...

Well u have  fake govt....so what!

[sanemax]

3 hours ago, Number 6 said:

What it WAS was a road, an open road that was passable on both sides 24 hours a day. Chinese GH dotted the area with no more than 3-4 proper hotels. Almost no one knew or wanted to bother staying off around wat chanasongkram or a  few GH on River side except the hard core travelers.

The hard core travelers ,  the adventous ones braved it and left KSR and ventured out two roads away , they saw the real Thailand .

   A place where no other white person had been before and all the kids stared at them, because they'd never seen a white face before .

   They used to "travel" back to KSR and night , dangerously crossing two roads and go and sit and drink beer with the masses of other travellers , proudly proclaiming "I'm staying in a family run guest house which ISNT listed in Lonely planet" , and the other travelers would gasp "Whats it like".

   

[metisdead]

An off topic trolling post has been removed. 

[Vacuum]

5 minutes ago, CLW said:

How many Thais are walking more than 100m?

On Sunday/Saturday/Wednesday 'walking streets' they actually do, but very slowly. However, the slowness will be compensated when they get in their cars or on their motorcycles.

[sanemax]

13 minutes ago, CLW said:

I think this orderly thinking and especially walking is a farang obsession.
How many Thais are walking more than 100m?

You seem to keep dividing everything between Thais and Felangs .

*What do Thais think , what do felangs think*

Try to see people as people and disregard their ethnicity .

You seem to have a divisional outlook and there are two sides .

Poor Thais  V rich felangs .

And you side with the poor Thais .

In the bigger picture , the world isnt like that .

Try to see people as people and disregard their ethnicity