15 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Yes both sides lied.  The disenfranchised working class were an easy target for the leave campaigners because they wanted change.  The bus and the promises were presented as fact when in reality it was just speculation but they pushed all the right buttons at the time. 

Agreed, and a good point about  buttons, some of which were just coincidental, like the first one below... some more factors that took the vote to brexit...

 

> Merkel's open arms invitation to refugees, brimful as it may have been with European compassion, a realpolitik disaster

 

> Obama's intervention, which, we have heard subsequently, was requested by Cameron

 

> Most significantly of all, the UK Asian immigrants voting overwhelmingly against free movement of workers from the EU in the hope of increased future Asian immigration

 

But hey, let's just chant the pseudo liberal chorus and blame the ethnic indigenous British working class for being uneducated and stupid.

 

It feels like something is afoot.  Secret meetings (according to the Business Insider) by all parties.  I am sure that Labour are preparing to try to dump Corbyn but maybe a split within the party is the way it will go. Many Conservatives are also extremely unhappy with the way the government are handling the whole Brexit thing.  Could it mean the start of a new centrist movement?  The rumours have been around for some time but would it all be too little, too late?  Let's see what happens after the summer break!

4 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

> Most significantly of all, the UK Asian immigrants voting overwhelmingly against free movement of workers from the EU in the hope of increased future Asian immigration

Talking of speculation ?.  There was also considerable speculation that many white British people voted leave to stop migrants from coming to Britain full stop.  Remember Nigel Farage's infamous poster?  It just shows how far off of the mark much of the rhetoric was.

@dunroaming. yes of course you are right, but this point must have been made thousands of times (don't take that the wrong way).

 

The point about xenophobic Asian immigrants has not been made very often if at all in this context.

 

Hard to get the real figures given that this sort of data is not reported (and possibly not collected given our PC state). But the number of xenophobic Asian voters was in all likelihood more than enough to fill the narrow margin between leave and stay. 

10 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

@dunroaming. yes of course you are right, but this point must have been made thousands of times (don't take that the wrong way).

 

The point about xenophobic Asian immigrants has not been made very often if at all in this context.

 

Hard to get the real figures given that this sort of data is not reported (and possibly not collected given our PC state). But the number of xenophobic Asian voters was in all likelihood more than enough to fill the narrow margin between leave and stay. 

“Hard to get the real figures given that this sort of data is not reported (and possibly not collected given our PC state).”

 

Or to put it another way, the claims you make are unsubstantiated hogwash.

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Or to put it another way, the claims you make are unsubstantiated hogwash.

And there was me thinking you were a reasonably decent guy.

 

The only section of the British "community" that I have actually seen discussing this is the Asian immigrants themselves. My conclusions are drawn from their opinions. Some well known Asians in the UK even advised Asians to vote leave for those very reasons. (Shock horror, can Asians be racist?)

 

But if you want to attack me because of our government's PC aversion to publish (or collect) this sort of data, feel free. Your ad hominem attacks say more about you than they do about me (they say nothing about me, but lots about you).

 

You also demonstate admirably that pseudo liberals consider certain topics taboo and want to censor debate, there's a surprise.

I reckon if I was to open the window I'd be able to all those 'Remoaners' still crying back in the UK. Why don't yous just shut up and get on with life.

 

1 minute ago, My Thai Life said:

And there was me thinking you were a reasonably decent guy.

 

The only section of the British "community" that I have actually seen discussing this is the Asian immigrants themselves. My conclusions are drawn from their opinions. Some well known Asians in the UK even advised Asians to vote leave for those very reasons. (Shock horror, can Asians be racist?)

 

But if you want to attack me because of our government's PC aversion to publish (or collect) this sort of data, feel free. Your ad hominem attacks say more about you than they do about me (they say nothing about me, but lots about you).

 

You also demonstate admirably that pseudo liberals consider certain topics taboo and want to censor debate, there's a surprise.

We have to take your word on that because you have no data (the ‘PC State’ hid it, remember).

 

Disguarding unsubstanciated statements is not censorship.

 

And I’m not attacking you, I’m simply pointing out you are making statements you can’t back up and giving some half baked conspiracy about a ‘PC State’ as an excuse.

6 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

I reckon if I was to open the window I'd be able to all those 'Remoaners' still crying back in the UK. Why don't yous just shut up and get on with life.

 

Your Brexit, you deliver it.

@Chomper, I'll say it again, there is no hard data available, at least none that I have been able to find. But there is a lot of discussion about this among Asian immigrants. Try researching it and come back with your take on it.

 

So, you think Asian immigrants voted to stay? Or they just didn't vote? They did vote, and they voted overwhelmingly to leave as far as I can make out from their discussions, and for very obvious reasons, as already mentioned.

 

I guess that doesn't fit your narrative of the stupid uneducated gullible racist indigenous ethnic British working-class destroying your EU dream?

 

There is no half baked conspiracy theory. Anyone who reads the mainstream UK press, as I do, principally the BBC and Guardian, knows that ethnic factors are absent or cleansed in many reporting situations.

20 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

And there was me thinking you were a reasonably decent guy.

 

The only section of the British "community" that I have actually seen discussing this is the Asian immigrants themselves. My conclusions are drawn from their opinions. Some well known Asians in the UK even advised Asians to vote leave for those very reasons. (Shock horror, can Asians be racist?)

 

But if you want to attack me because of our government's PC aversion to publish (or collect) this sort of data, feel free. Your ad hominem attacks say more about you than they do about me (they say nothing about me, but lots about you).

 

You also demonstate admirably that pseudo liberals consider certain topics taboo and want to censor debate, there's a surprise.

And here's you claiming attacks on your clas are ad homin attacks. And I have some exciting news for you: 67% of all UK asian voters voted against Brexit.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/04/18/503751859/a-new-vote-on-brexit-resurfaces-racial-anxieties-among-black-brits

6 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

@Chomper, I'll say it again, there is no hard data available, at least none that I have been able to find. But there is a lot of discussion about this among Asian immigrants. Try researching it and come back with your take on it.

 

So, you think Asian immigrants voted to stay? Or they just didn't vote? They did vote, and they voted overwhelmingly to leave as far as I can make out from their discussions, and for very obvious reasons, as already mentioned.

 

I guess that doesn't fit your narrative of the stupid uneducated gullible racist indigenous ethnic British working-class destroying your EU dream?

 

There is no half baked conspiracy theory. Anyone who reads the mainstream UK press, as I do, principally the BBC and Guardian, knows that ethnic factors are absent or cleansed in many reporting situations.

I call you out on your lack of supporting data and now you expect me to ‘research’ your claims.

 

That’s not how it works.

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I call you out on your lack of supporting data and now you expect me to ‘research’ your claims.

 

That’s not how it works.

I found data to refute his claim in about 2 minutes.

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And here's you claiming attacks on your clas are ad homin attacks.

What on earth are you talking about? My "clas", do you mean my "class". You don't know my class (if that's what you mean).

 

However, a genuine thanks for trying to find hard data... your link is based on someone who "On referendum day I surveyed 12,369 people after they had voted". I'm not sure how well versed you are in statistical research, but it sounds, let's say politely, inconclusive.

 

This link is substantially better in terms of statistical reliability.

 

https://theconversation.com/inside-the-british-asian-brexit-vote-and-why-it-contains-a-few-surprises-72931

 

And here's a quote from it: 

"A number of jurisdictions with large South Asian populations delivered Leave votes, including Luton (56.5% Leave), Hillingdon (56.4% Leave), Slough (54.3% Leave) and Bradford (54.2% Leave). All have South Asian populations of 25% and above. It’s not unreasonable to think that such Leave votes could not have been delivered without a significant number of Asian voters opting for Brexit."

 

6 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

What on earth are you talking about? My "clas", do you mean my "class". You don't know my class (if that's what you mean).

 

However, a genuine thanks for trying to find hard data... your link is based on someone who "On referendum day I surveyed 12,369 people after they had voted". I'm not sure how well versed you are in statistical research, but it sounds, let's say politely, inconclusive.

 

This link is substantially better in terms of statistical reliability.

 

https://theconversation.com/inside-the-british-asian-brexit-vote-and-why-it-contains-a-few-surprises-72931

 

And here's a quote from it: 

"A number of jurisdictions with large South Asian populations delivered Leave votes, including Luton (56.5% Leave), Hillingdon (56.4% Leave), Slough (54.3% Leave) and Bradford (54.2% Leave). All have South Asian populations of 25% and above. It’s not unreasonable to think that such Leave votes could not have been delivered without a significant number of Asian voters opting for Brexit."

 

Sognificant does not mean amajority. And over 12000 votes is a huge sample

 

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I call you out on your lack of supporting data and now you expect me to ‘research’ your claims.

 

This is disingenuous to say the least. In my opening post on this specific topic I said there is no hard data. You are simply repeating what I said, and then patting yourself on the back for repeating what I said. Anyway, in my most recent post I have linked to the hardest data I have been able to find:

 

https://theconversation.com/inside-the-british-asian-brexit-vote-and-why-it-contains-a-few-surprises-72931

 

And here's a quote from it:

"One reason [that Asian voters voted leave] might be that many voters within the British South Asian diaspora don’t feel European. When the Remain campaign sought to appeal to a sense of European identity, and warned that people were about to lose that identity, it didn’t make for a particularly convincing argument." Aw shucks, really?

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Sognificant does not mean amajority. And over 12000 votes is a huge sample

Yes, 12000 is a good size sample, but from the link it seems that it was an extremely skewed sample, and therefore completely unreliable. Have you ever had any training or education in statistics?

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

 

But hey, let's just chant the pseudo liberal chorus and blame the ethnic indigenous British working class for being uneducated and stupid.

 

 

The dangerous truth is that the split is not across the middle, separating "upper" and "lower" classes.

 

It is down the middle.

 

Not the seed of revolution.

 

The seed of civil war.

 

 

@enoon. an excellent point. I wouldn't say it's a 50-50 split at all levels, nevertheless an excellent point.

 

And nowhere is the war raging more fiercely than on Thai Visa. Why?

 

> Most of us presumably live in Thailand most if not all of the time.

> Most expats didn't get the right to vote anyway.

> Whatever the outcome it doesn't materially affect me, and I guess that's true for many expats.

> Citizens, expats or not, will not affect the outcome by arguing with each other on forums.

1 hour ago, Rally123 said:

I reckon if I was to open the window I'd be able to all those 'Remoaners' still crying back in the UK. Why don't yous just shut up and get on with life.

 

Intelligence?

12 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Seems like the modern meaning of democracy is to have a vote but don't accept it unless it goes your way.

 

Rightly or wrongly the majority , albeit small, voted to leave. So accept democracy and get on with it. 

 

But no. They need another vote and so on until it is the "correct" result.

 

Democracy only exists in Parliament.

 

Outside is nothing but the wailing of infants and the barking of dogs.

 

 

43 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Yes, 12000 is a good size sample, but from the link it seems that it was an extremely skewed sample, and therefore completely unreliable. Have you ever had any training or education in statistics?

Tha's funny. Because the article you cited linked to this article which says this:

"Lord Ashcroft, the Tory peer turned pollster, has ran a poll which gives us a good idea. Unlike most polls, which are yet again being pilloried after failing to predict a major election, this poll is reflective rather than predictive.

 

It asked a far bigger group of people than most polls, and was weighted to reflect the 52:48 result for Brexit, so its data can be taken as a pretty accurate picture of how Britain voted on Thursday"

 

So where is your evidence that the poll was skewed? It seems an especially absurd statement given Lord Ashcroft's political views.

 

 

 

33 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

@enoon. an excellent point. I wouldn't say it's a 50-50 split at all levels, nevertheless an excellent point.

 

And nowhere is the war raging more fiercely than on Thai Visa. Why?

 

> Most of us presumably live in Thailand most if not all of the time.

> Most expats didn't get the right to vote anyway.

> Whatever the outcome it doesn't materially affect me, and I guess that's true for many expats.

> Citizens, expats or not, will not affect the outcome by arguing with each other on forums.

Wrong

- Exchange rate influences?

- Future security of pensions?

- Costs and benefits of the health insurance system for Uk citizens living abroad?

- incomes and future opportunities for relatives living in the homeland?

41 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

@enoon. an excellent point. I wouldn't say it's a 50-50 split at all levels, nevertheless an excellent point.

 

And nowhere is the war raging more fiercely than on Thai Visa. Why?

 

> Most of us presumably live in Thailand most if not all of the time.

> Most expats didn't get the right to vote anyway.

> Whatever the outcome it doesn't materially affect me, and I guess that's true for many expats.

> Citizens, expats or not, will not affect the outcome by arguing with each other on forums.

 

Lost Horizon (1937 - Frank Capra's) : Frank Capra : Free Download ...

 

 

Jeez, this is getting tedious. If you can be bothered to read the link that was pasted (not by me), maybe you'd be kind enough to let us all know how you think the poll was performed.

 

If you want a more explicit and wide ranging set of figures, go to the link I pasted.

 

After you've read and considered both and reported back I might waste more time answering your question.

 

Have fun.

30 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Wrong

- Exchange rate influences?

- Future security of pensions?

- Costs and benefits of the health insurance system for Uk citizens living abroad?

- incomes and future opportunities for relatives living in the homeland?

Your assumptions show the limitations of your world view and your experience.

1 hour ago, Enoon said:

 

Democracy only exists in Parliament.

 

Outside is nothing but the wailing of infants and the barking of dogs.

 

 

That's a great quote!

 

From who?

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

Your assumptions show the limitations of your world view and your experience.

You must be the expert.

But if you write that Brexit:

> Whatever the outcome it doesn't materially affect me, and I guess that's true for many expats.

 

That is wrong, i am sure that brexit have affects for UK expats too, even in my limited world view. And from my experience you know nothing.

@tomacht8

 

Well it doesn't affect me materially at all. And I'm 100% certain there are many other expats it won't affect either.

 

Of course there are 10s of millions of UK/EU residents that will be affected.

 

It does however affect me emotionally, as I'd like to see us all getting along in a happy Europe. Failing that I'd like to see us all getting along in a happy UK.

 

Hey, have we ever done that? Good luck.

8 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Wrong

- Exchange rate influences?

- Future security of pensions?

- Costs and benefits of the health insurance system for Uk citizens living abroad?

- incomes and future opportunities for relatives living in the homeland?

7 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Your assumptions show the limitations of your world view and your experience.

Your reply to tomacht8 holds an utter lack of substance but does betray an unjustified attitude of superiority. You must be one of those pseudo-liberals I hear so much about.