The Shinawatras and the global diplomatic merry-go-round

[webfact]

The Shinawatras and the global diplomatic merry-go-round

By Tulsathit Taptim 
The Nation

 

 

You don’t need a doctorate to think up the most effective test question for future students of diplomacy – you only need to be Thai.

 

Mine is this: “As the foreign minister of another country, how would you handle the Shinawatra situation if Thailand requested Thaksin’s or Yingluck’s extradition?”

 

Whoever offers the best answer gets a pass and will be groomed to become a real ambassador or foreign minister. Don’t laugh. I don’t think America’s secretary of state or Britain’s foreign secretary knows best how to handle the predicament.

 

By the time some university administrators embrace my suggestion, the Shinawatra situation will have become even stickier.

 

Panthongtae’s son or grandson could be in courageous, self-imposed exile or, some may say, running cowardly away from a guilty verdict in Thailand. By then, the clan may have already bought a Series A football club or had a nominee on the La Liga board. Or they may have invested heavily in Germany.

 

Benvenuto alla festa. Bienvenigo a la fiesta. Willkommen zur party. Welcome to the party.

 

Britain is getting good at it. (Or some may describe the country as incredibly lucky.) In the latest close call regarding the Shinawatras, London has navigated its way past a Thai extradition request for Yingluck. It bought enough time to enable her to fly to Dubai, where there will be no extradition problem with Thailand.

 

This does not mean, though, that others handling runaway Shinawatras should follow the British textbook. The way London has been grappling with the problem is the same as evacuating people from a rumbling volcano because there’s no better way to deal with the situation.

 

What if Yingluck had said, “I’m staying in England because I love it here”? What if she had threatened to go public and accuse the British government of “kowtowing to the Thai military junta”? That’s an erupting volcano there, with countless people at its base.

 

The “wanted” Shinawatras have been popping up here and there, with the United States, Britain, Hong Kong and Singapore apparently their preferred places to sojourn. Thaksin seems to like Russia, too, but it’s a country unconcerned about human rights, so his presence would unlikely become a bombshell.

 

Japan and France were given a bit of a scare years ago. Montenegro’s name used to be mentioned often. Cambodia’s problems with Thailand escalated to the highest level thanks to Thaksin and lesser fugitives wearing red shirts. The Thai-Cambodian tension has subsided for now, but the volcano is simply dormant.

 

So far, Britain has had the toughest experience among the Western countries. London allowed Thaksin to buy one of the country’s biggest football clubs, then kicked him out and then allowed him back in. According to British diplomats in Bangkok a few years ago, Thaksin’s Ratchadapisek land scoop, for which he was convicted, did not amount to a crime worthy of extradition.

 

Yingluck was convicted of malfeasance related to corruption in her government’s rice-pledging scheme. Some say her case was highly politicised, so she deserves the status of a politically persecuted person. Others say she was found guilty in a constitutional process that would not have been initiated had she still been in power.

 

Another foreign diplomat admitted some time ago that diplomatic slipperiness regarding Thaksin should be forgiven. “What else are we supposed to do?” he asked, pointing out that the Shinawatras were in power one day and their enemies the next. One day a passport was revoked and the next day it was restored.

 

Britain is in deep trouble either way. Human rights afford a nice diplomatic basis, but lurking under the surface are powerful, non-ideological benefits. The US has oil and strategic interests to worry about and Britain has been backing its hyper-store business to the hilt. The European Union has been supporting the Shinawatras, but it will listen to what Washington and London have to say.

 

To complicate matters further, Russia and China are apparently offering the Thai military junta shoulders to cry on. So walking a diplomatic tightrope is more than a cliché when it comes to the West coping with Thailand.

 

Next year’s election will most likely prolong the vicious cycle. If the Shinawatras regain power, even by remote control from outside Thailand, their extradition worries will fade, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the volcano won’t start rumbling again, and soon.

 

We’ve had two convictions to begin with and Panthongtae is hanging by a thread.

 

Diplomacy, as the old joke goes, is the art of saying “nice doggie” until you can find a rock. Here’s a new one, based on a sure-fire diplomatic trend of the future, where countries have to gently chase off the Shinawatras and treat be nice to any Thai military government: 

 

Diplomacy is the art of using a rock while convincing the doggie that it’s still cute. 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30351688

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-08-08

 

[bluesofa]

11 minutes ago, webfact said:

Diplomacy is the art of using a rock while convincing the doggie that it’s still cute

I always thought the best diplomat was the one who could tell you to go to hell in such a way that you looked forward to the journey.

 

[Samui Bodoh]

"...Mine is this: “As the foreign minister of another country, how would you handle the Shinawatra situation if Thailand requested Thaksin’s or Yingluck’s extradition?...”

 

The answer is very simple; if the military coup makers requested extradition, they should refuse it because you do not extradite Democratically-elected leaders to the forces who usurped their right to govern. Period. End of story.

 

"Britain is getting good at it. (Or some may describe the country as incredibly lucky.) In the latest close call regarding the Shinawatras, London has navigated its way past a Thai extradition request for Yingluck. It bought enough time to enable her to fly to Dubai, where there will be no extradition problem with Thailand..."

 

What a load of ********! The author presumes that the British government took the request to extradite her seriously. The far, far, far more likely occurrence is that the British government did and will continue to ignore the request from the coup-government of Thailand.

 

"...Britain is in deep trouble either way..."

 

No, Britain is NOT in trouble either way; Britain is not in trouble at all. They will continue to ignore the request for extradition. Should the military coup government try to push the issue publicly, then Britain will be forced to publicly refuse, causing a great loss of face for Thailand.

 

Face it, no one will extradite the Shins to Thailand. Democratically-elected former Prime Ministers are not extradited to the people who usurped their legitimate power. Period. If Thailand tries to push this too far, then there will be a hearing which will state that the Thai Military rigged the 'trials', the Thai legal system does not meet international standards, and that the "crime" was political.

 

Thailand would be humiliated internationally.

 

Will someone PLEASE find this "columnist" another job? His weekly columns are an exercise in nonsense, half-truths, suppositions and pure, inane gobbledy-gook. Perhaps it is time to retire...

 

 

[YetAnother]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Mine is this: “As the foreign minister of another country, how would you handle the Shinawatra situation if Thailand requested Thaksin’s or Yingluck’s extradition?”

you do exactly what they are now doing: nothing;

political  requests from an ilitary ictatorship should be ignored and these persecuted should be given safe harbor

[mok199]

Thailands Struggle To Be Relivant...when really all it has is the budget tours....and the most honest taxi drivers in the world

Edited August 7, 2018 by mok199
speliings

[mikebell]

Someone wisely commented on here that if the Shins entered UK on non-Thai passports (the Thai ones having been revoked) then extradition to Thailand is a non-starter.

QED.

[meechai]

Question is a non-starter

Quote

“As the foreign minister of another country, how would you handle the Shinawatra situation if Thailand requested Thaksin’s or Yingluck’s extradition?”

 

Junta is an illegal overthrow of a democratically elected government.

How in the world can anyone expect any other democratically elected government to comply with anything

a junta asks?

 

It is like a Criminal making demands

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by meechai

[yellowboat]

Thailand's status has faded, and the current government offers little in the way of financial or philosophical values.  Their neighbors offer more interesting possibilities and are rising.  Reward Vietnam for their resistance to China.  Reward Malaysia for their love universal suffrage.   Reward Thailand for their attitude adjustment sessions, banning political gatherings, for ruing Khaosan Road ?   No.

Edited August 8, 2018 by yellowboat

[Darcula]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Whoever offers the best answer gets a pass and will be groomed to become a real ambassador or foreign minister.

 

Sorry, but since when has merit, qualifications, or passing exams ever mattered here?

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Mine is this: “As the foreign minister of another country, how would you handle the Shinawatra situation if Thailand requested Thaksin’s or Yingluck’s extradition?...”

 

The answer is very simple; if the military coup makers requested extradition, they should refuse it because you do not extradite Democratically-elected leaders to the forces who usurped their right to govern. Period. End of story.

 

"Britain is getting good at it. (Or some may describe the country as incredibly lucky.) In the latest close call regarding the Shinawatras, London has navigated its way past a Thai extradition request for Yingluck. It bought enough time to enable her to fly to Dubai, where there will be no extradition problem with Thailand..."

 

What a load of ********! The author presumes that the British government took the request to extradite her seriously. The far, far, far more likely occurrence is that the British government did and will continue to ignore the request from the coup-government of Thailand.

 

"...Britain is in deep trouble either way..."

 

No, Britain is NOT in trouble either way; Britain is not in trouble at all. They will continue to ignore the request for extradition. Should the military coup government try to push the issue publicly, then Britain will be forced to publicly refuse, causing a great loss of face for Thailand.

 

Face it, no one will extradite the Shins to Thailand. Democratically-elected former Prime Ministers are not extradited to the people who usurped their legitimate power. Period. If Thailand tries to push this too far, then there will be a hearing which will state that the Thai Military rigged the 'trials', the Thai legal system does not meet international standards, and that the "crime" was political.

 

Thailand would be humiliated internationally.

 

Will someone PLEASE find this "columnist" another job? His weekly columns are an exercise in nonsense, half-truths, suppositions and pure, inane gobbledy-gook. Perhaps it is time to retire...

 

 

"The author presumes that the British government took the request to extradite her seriously. The far, far, far more likely occurrence is that the British government did and will continue to ignore the request from the coup-government of Thailand."

 

And this is your presumption only.

 

Rigged trial - did you ever actually read any of the reports of the case ? No need to rig anything. What is questionable is why some cases get buried and others fast tracked - but we all know the answers.

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, meechai said:

Question is a non-starter

 

Junta is an illegal overthrow of a democratically elected government.

How in the world can anyone expect any other democratically elected government to comply with anything

a junta asks?

 

It is like a Criminal making demands

 

 

If that were the case the countries you consider to have democratically elected governments would have broken off all relations and imposed sanctions.

 

Reality is they seem to have done the opposite.

[Chris Lawrence]

Honestly this is better than the Kardashian's. I would watch this if it was a reality show. Can u imagine Mr T bored so he rings the General "Ha Ha you can't catch me". and then hangs up. 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Honestly this is better than the Kardashian's. I would watch this if it was a reality show. Can u imagine Mr T bored so he rings the General "Ha Ha you can't catch me". and then hangs up. 

 

They probably chat to compare net worth! 

[marko kok prong]

Highly unlikely the UK would extradite some one to a country ruled by an un-elected military govt.

[stud858]

Easy.  Show me the evidence that a law was broken and I'll give whoever you want plus a Vegemite sandwich.

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, mikebell said:

Someone wisely commented on here that if the Shins entered UK on non-Thai passports (the Thai ones having been revoked) then extradition to Thailand is a non-starter.

QED.

Is that fact or convenient popular assumption?

 

 

 

[scorecard]

31 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Honestly this is better than the Kardashian's. I would watch this if it was a reality show. Can u imagine Mr T bored so he rings the General "Ha Ha you can't catch me". and then hangs up. 

 

Boring...

[Eric Loh]

36 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Rigged trial - did you ever actually read any of the reports of the case ? No need to rig anything. What is questionable is why some cases get buried and others fast tracked - but we all know the answers.

Not sure I am with you on this. Are you saying that the NACC is a corrupt deep state junta entity that rushed the trials of their political enemies without due diligence while ignoring and procrastinating on corrupt cases of the generals and their allies. Just want to square up with you on the “answers”.  

[samran]

It isn’t really too hard. 

 

This stuff is worked out in advance:

 

- the Shinawatra’s work out a deal with the junta. 

- MOFA convientenly forgets to cancel the Shinawatras passports 

- surprise, surprise, they abscond

- the junta place extradition requests that they know will be ignored

-the British dutifully ignore the requests

.

.

.

the junta looks like it is doing something 

 

so long as the Shinawatra’s don’t come back and don’t get directly involved in politics, their extended clan and associates stay untouched and no one accidentally has an accident somewhere. Oh, and they get to keep most of their money - which is all the Shins ever really cared about anyway. 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Not sure I am with you on this. Are you saying that the NACC is a corrupt deep state junta entity that rushed the trials of their political enemies without due diligence while ignoring and procrastinating on corrupt cases of the generals and their allies. Just want to square up with you on the “answers”.  

 

Stop trying to be clever - it doesn't suit you.

 

I have posted many times that the decisions on which cases get prosecuted, which get buried, and punishments for those convicted are highly variable and selective. The NACC are for the Junta what the DSI under Tharit and CAPO under Chalerm were for the Shins.

 

However, that doesn't mean all cases involving corrupt politicians are "political" nor does it mean they are innocent.

 

 

[yellowboat]

11 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

However, that doesn't mean all cases involving corrupt politicians are "political" nor does it mean they are innocent.

I can't tell the difference, and I doubt many others could either. 

 

Many a junta lover tried to explain that the junta did not usurp power by the means of a coup.  Instead, it was a multitude of independent actions, timed precisely, perfectly coincidental and, of course, unique to Thailand.  So it is hard to understand unless you are Thai, as always. 

[stud858]

I've looked and asked for evidence of criminal activity by Shins.  No documents or videos proof.  The only evidence is that a court ruled so. I'd say Thaksin used the laws in his favour to line his pockets.  Rich people do it all the time. It sucks and is ethically criminal.  

[Eric Loh]

19 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I've looked and asked for evidence of criminal activity by Shins.  No documents or videos proof.  The only evidence is that a court ruled so. I'd say Thaksin used the laws in his favour to line his pockets.  Rich people do it all the time. It sucks and is ethically criminal.  

What really sucks is the general who blatantly show of his criminal activities on his wrist or the general who gave military projects to his son or the general who intimidate those who question his unusual wealth. All these while going after their political enemies for corruption. 

[nahkit]

39 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I've looked and asked for evidence of criminal activity by Shins.  No documents or videos proof.  The only evidence is that a court ruled so. I'd say Thaksin used the laws in his favour to line his pockets.  Rich people do it all the time. It sucks and is ethically criminal.  

You don't regard a court verdict as being proof of guilt? Thaksin was convicted long before this lot came to power.

 

You might try reading this :-

 

"The Thaksinization of Thailand by Duncan McCargo & Ukrist Pathmanand"

 

 

 

[yellowboat]

59 minutes ago, stud858 said:

I've looked and asked for evidence of criminal activity by Shins.  No documents or videos proof.  The only evidence is that a court ruled so. I'd say Thaksin used the laws in his favour to line his pockets.  Rich people do it all the time. It sucks and is ethically criminal.  

His crime was successfully challenging the status quo, which is not a crime.  He did awful things to people who had legitimate gripes against him.  He used Thailand's loose defamation laws to sue journalists for millions of Baht.  There are no checks or balances in Thailand, so he who wins has all the marbles.  The courts serve the political machine. 

[connda]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

“You don’t need a doctorate to think up the most effective test question for future students of diplomacy – you only need to be Thai.
As the foreign minister of another country, how would you handle the Shinawatra situation if Thailand requested Thaksin’s or Yingluck’s extradition?”

a. Shut down all political parties and democratic elections.
b. Don't have sex until you're 21 and married.
c. Respect your mother, father, elders, and society's puu yais.
d. Submit a Blue Notice to Interpol. 
e. All of the above.

Answer: "E - All of the above"

Edited August 8, 2018 by connda

[stud858]

42 minutes ago, nahkit said:

You don't regard a court verdict as being proof of guilt? Thaksin was convicted long before this lot came to power.

 

You might try reading this :-

 

"The Thaksinization of Thailand by Duncan McCargo & Ukrist Pathmanand"

 

 

 

Normally maybe, but after being in Thailand and becoming aware of the stereotypical cognitive ability, then,  no, I don't regard the court decision to be correct and rather  more biased, unless of course they present clear evidence. 

[JAG]

Having read the original post twice (Oh goodness me, wasn't it a struggle) I am left with the impression that The United Kingdom has had a narrow escape! 

 

A narrow escape from exactly what is not clear... 

. 

[anon789561]

the UK don't give a shit about this. christ, years ago you could go to addies cafe in earls court and it was full of people on the run from thailand downstairs in the club/karaoke. these were thais wanted for murder and stuff. good luck trying to extradite a politician voted in by the people back to the army and the families that control them. just not going to happen, ever. and they know it and prefer it that way

[candide]

1 hour ago, nahkit said:

You don't regard a court verdict as being proof of guilt? Thaksin was convicted long before this lot came to power.

 

You might try reading this :-

 

"The Thaksinization of Thailand by Duncan McCargo & Ukrist Pathmanand"

 

 

 

Ahem. By a Thai court, and additionally with a Junta in power.