U.S. topic -- Social Security direct deposit to U.S. bank

[Jingthing]

Hi there,

 

Sorry if these social security topics are a bit redundant but I'm in the middle of an important decision about whether to apply for Social Security doing direct deposit to Bangkok Bank or to use a U.S.bank.

 

This thread is aimed at people that live in Thailand, applied for S.S. from Thailand stating their Thai address to S.S., and did a direct deposit to a U.S. bank.

 

I'm assuming most of that group applied first ONLINE. 

When you do that you can tell them your U.S. bank information in detail for direct deposit. 

Did that step alone work or were other steps needed?

Particularly interested in people doing direct deposit into U.S. banks where the U.S. banks have a U.S. address on record. 

Yes, a contradiction there ... applying to S.S. as living abroad but the U.S. bank sees you as living in the U.S.

 

Were you ever required to file this form with your U.S. bank and then to S.S.?

https://www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/SF1199A-12a.pdf?forceDownload=1

 

Reading this form it reads like you need to deal directly with your U.S. bank to complete the form. How does that happen if you're in Thailand? I see you can mail it in. You could have it remailed in the U.S. to you bank to avoid any red flags. Or perhaps with people applying from abroad and depositing in the U.S they don't require this form?

 

To sign up for Direct Deposit, the payee is to read the back of this form and fill in the information requested in Sections 1 and 2. Then take or mail this form to the financial institution. The financial institution will verify the information in Sections 1 and 2, and will complete Section 3. The completed form will be returned to the Government agency identified below.

[NCC1701A]

I started SS in Oct 17 and I did not fill out that form. At some point in the process, sorry I cant remember where, I just gave  them my US bank routing and account number. I may have been on the secure.ssa.gov website where you manage your account. I have a US address on my bank account.

 

PS. You think this is fun wait until you talk to the people in Manila.

Edited August 8, 2018 by NCC1701A

[NCC1701A]

I decided to deposit in the USA only because of the potential problems one would face with Thai banks if something went wrong with the transfer.   

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

I started SS in Oct 17 and I did not fill out that form. At some point in the process, sorry I cant remember where, I just gave  them my US bank routing and account number. I may have been on the secure.ssa.gov website where you manage your account. I have a US address on my bank account.

I sounds like you have a MySSA account which people living abroad aren't supposed to have. Did you apply using your Thai address as your residence and were you interviewed by Manila? 

[NCC1701A]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I sounds like you have a MySSA account which people living abroad aren't supposed to have. Did you apply using your Thai address as your residence and were you interviewed by Manila? 

yes. i started the process on MySSA. No one said boo to me about not using it. gave them my Thai address. got a phone call from Manila.

[Jingthing]

Just now, NCC1701A said:

yes. i started the process on MySSA. No one said boo to me about not using it. gave them my Thai address. got a phone call from Manila.

Did you enter your Thai address as your home address when you applied online?

It's possible you're confusing applying online with opening a My SSA account. 

You can apply online using a foreign address.

I don't think that you can open a MySSA account with a foreign address. 

Either way, your experience is useful to hear about. 

[NCC1701A]

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Did you enter your Thai address as your home address when you applied online?

yes

Quote

It's possible you're confusing applying online with opening a My SSA account. 

 

possible.

 

You can apply online using a foreign address.

I don't think that you can open a MySSA account with a foreign address. 

 

Either way, your experience is useful to hear about. 

Manila was a horrible experience. I suggest you keep your cellphone on 24/7 with the ringer turned up so you don't miss the call. put all your info together so you can answer questions when the call comes.

 

they wanted my original birth certificate and my original passport sent to Manila. I told them Thailand is (a thing we can't say here on this forum) and it could be a real problem for me to be without my passport and they backed off and said copies would be ok.

 

the worst part is the one way communication. you send info. they don't respond. after two months I was leaving voice mail messages like "for the love of god please answer" "i don't think my heart can take much more of this." but after 90 days I was approved. the way i found out was money showed up in my account. no communications from Manila.

Edited August 8, 2018 by NCC1701A

[Jingthing]

OMG!

 

I assume you needed to get certified copies of your passport and birth certificate at the U.S. embassy or consulate. 

 

As far as the interview with Manila and having everything ready to answer to them, I'm glad you brought that up. 

 

Can you (or others) provide a list of everything they will be asking about to be ready or do they send an email or is there another source for that info?

Edited August 8, 2018 by Jingthing

[LUNG JIM MAE RIM]

I worked through the US Consulate. Gave them my passport and original birth certificate which they sent to Manila and back using diplomatic pouch. Went smoothly.

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, LUNG JIM MAE RIM said:

I worked through the US Consulate. Gave them my passport and original birth certificate which they sent to Manila and back using diplomatic pouch. Went smoothly.

I'm pretty sure they don't offer that service anymore. So when was that? 

[JimGant]

From US Consulate Chiang Mai webpage:

 

Quote

Starting on October 1, 2017, all beneficiaries and applicants living in Thailand must direct all questions regarding Social Security to SSA Federal Benefits Unit (FBU) in U.S. Embassy in Manila, Philippines at [email protected]. Please visit www.ssa.gov for more Social Security information.

 

[ThaiBunny]

I’m confused by those posters who say that a mySSA is restricted to US-based recipients. I began mine when I was resident in Australia at the suggestion of the Manila office (I think). A few years ago there was a hiccup when the SSA introduced 2FA and assumed every user was in the USA, but they’ve now corrected for that and you can get your 2FA password via your registered email address. I had to send Manila with a certified copy of something or other a couple of years ago but it was resolved by going to the nearest consulate (again, their suggestion)

Edited August 9, 2018 by ThaiBunny

[Pib]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

OMG!

 

I assume you needed to get certified copies of your passport and birth certificate at the U.S. embassy or consulate. 

 

As far as the interview with Manila and having everything ready to answer to them, I'm glad you brought that up. 

 

Can you (or others) provide a list of everything they will be asking about to be ready or do they send an email or is there another source for that info?

Just go complete the online application without signing/submitting.  Once you complete that you will know pretty much every possible question to be asked during the interview.  It's pretty much all easy stuff...most of which you can answer off the top of your head.  Yeap, just do an online application without hitting the submit button.

 

If certain information reflecting in the SS data system is different from what you provide like a birth date mismatch or if you are a Naturalized Citizen you will for sure be sending in some additional documentation so the SSA can confirm/update info in their system.  A birth date mismatch is probably going to require a birth certificate and other form of ID like a passport. 

 

Believe it or not if you are a naturalized citizen the chances are high the SSA system will "not" show you as a  U.S. citizen as the INS and SSA systems do not fully interface/update each other.   You will be required to mail in your original or a certified copy of your Naturalization Certificate and/or U.S. Passport.   By certified copy I mean you take the original to the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok or Chiang Mai and they will certify them at no cost since it's for application of a federal/state/local benefits.  You get the originals back and mail the certified copies to Manila.  And although you have a social security number and original social security card Manila may be ask you to complete and mail in a "Form SS-5 Application for Social Security Number" (and easy one page form)which is used to get your original social security card "or a replacement card."   SSA uses these forms to validate you are indeed U.S. citizen and to update the SSA system....and as a by-product you get another SS card in the mail a few weeks later. 

 

And when I say Manila asked for the forms, it may actually be the Baltimore office that asks Manila and in turn Manila asks your for the docs.  Manila does the initial evaluation/submission of the application and Baltimore is the one that does the next level review and final approval of all applications with foreign addresses.

 

It really an easy process if you are a U.S. citizen by birth there are no data disconnect/mismatches between the info your provide and SSA records, you are applying based on your own earnings record, and you don't also earn some benefit from another country.   

 

But for Naturalized Citizens, spouses applying based on your earning records, foreign born children involved, and a variety of other possibilities, it gets more complicated in what additional forms/supporting documents may have to be provided. 

 

And for a wife applying "based on her husband's earning record" versus her own earning record (or vice versa) a Form SSA3 Marriage Certification may be required...an easy one page form....complete it, sign and mail in.   

 

Everybody's  situation will be different...that's why you see so, so many different stories about how a person's application went.  Stories that range from it was "a piece of cake to being a horror story."  All too often the  horror stories leave out some important details, knowingly or unknowingly, that explain why it turned into a horror story. 

 

And the waiting for the application approval, especially when additional documentation is required, can make the application seem painful and slow....make the horror story sound even more scary.  And when Manila seems unresponsive or slow to respond that does not help the situation.   I've found their response time in helping various people and my own application to range from slow to fast, but generally OK.  But for most folks, it's an easy and quick process....a no drama process.

 

 

 

[Pib]

2 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

I’m confused by those posters who say that a mySSA is restricted to US-based recipients. I began mine when I was resident in Australia at the suggestion of the Manila office (I think). A few years ago there was a hiccup when the SSA introduced 2FA and assumed every user was in the USA, but they’ve now corrected for that and you can get your 2FA password via your registered email address. I had to send Manila with a certified copy of something or other a couple of years ago but it was resolved by going to the nearest consulate (again, their suggestion)

To apply online a person does "not" need a mySSA online account. 

 

But to create a mySSA online account to be used for a  variety of other purposes a person needs a U.S. address reflecting in the IRS and/or credit reporting agency systems.  Plus they only offer a U.S. address entry format; not an international entry format.  The U.S. address you enter during the mySSA registration/enrollment process will be bucked against your latest address reflecting in the IRS/credit reporting agency databases to help ensure you are who you say you are during the online account opening process. 

 

Now I guess to get a mySSA online account created without a U.S. address you need to visit a social security office where they can do some immediate confirmation of your identity.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Pib

[mtls2005]

I live in Thailand, both the SSA and IRS know this as it is documented.

 

I applied for SS a few years ago on-line - I had all the information handy - and chose to directly deposit the net proceeds to a Fidelity account (Fidelity "thinks" I live in the U.S., at least part of the year). I got the Fidelity routing details, and my cash management account number - requires some letters to be transposed into numbers - on the Fidelity website. Then used that in the IRS application. I think it took ~ 15 minutes to complete the online application process. A few weeks later I got an email from a guy at the SSA in Baltimore, asking me to call him for an interview. The interview took place ~ 03:00 Bangkok time, and lasted ~ 5 minutes. I got my first deposit on/around the 3rd of the first month I qualified. I usually use my Fidelity ATM card - the ATM fee of 150 THB is credited back to my account - for funds here, or let it queue up for six months and do an ACH (for free) via BBL/NYC, using the 2x verification set-up process done ~ 15 years ago. Obviously, that won't work after April 2019, so will set up a standing wire transfer order to my BBL and SCB accounts here. Fidelity charges $10 for an international wire transfer initiated online, but I won't have to pay the BBL/NYC "handling" fee, which is $10 for my levels.

 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I'm assuming most of that group applied first ONLINE. 

When you do that you can tell them your U.S. bank information in detail for direct deposit. 

Did that step alone work or were other steps needed?

 

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, no other steps required, although during the interview they might have re-verified the account details.

 

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Were you ever required to file this form with your U.S. bank and then to S.S.?

No.

 

 

The only interaction I had with Manila was to request that they email me my 1099-SSA - they did so in ~ 15 minutes, which for some reason never seems to arrive, even though I get other mail from the SSA, like the "are you still alive annual form".

 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by mtls2005

[NancyL]

Jingthing, I've helped several people to apply for SS from Thailand, including Hubby and no one ever has to fill out that form you referenced in your OP.  As mentioned, you just list an account number and routing number on the application form.  They don't care what address the bank has on file for you and if it differs from the one that SSA has for you.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Thanks for all the responses.

Very helpful indeed.

I am still processing all this, the pros and cons, the potential benefits and pitfalls, etc.

I'm getting the message that people's experiences vary quite a lot but still hearing about the different experiences is helpful.

 

I am wondering whether I decide on direct deposit to the U.S. or to Bangkok Bank, what is the most effective to officially begin my request to get the benefit?

 

I had thought it was definitely to just go online, complete the application and SUBMIT. 

 

Then from there expect followup from Manilla and/or initiate it myself with an email to them telling them I started the application online.

 

Member Pib in the context of finding out what the interview questions will be when interviewed by Manila here mentioned do the application online  and then do NOT submit!

I assume that comment was only in the context of finding out the questions rather than a comment on whether to start the application online or not.

 

In any case, any advice on the best way to officially start the application from abroad?

 

ONLINE and yes submit.

 

OR

 

Contact Manila directly. If contact Manila directly how exactly is the application officially started with them? Just an email?

 

OR

 

Perhaps another way?

 

I am still assuming that doing the online application and submitting is the cleanest most efficient way to officially begin the process. Correct or not? 

 

How about the FOREIGN ADDRESS on the online application? Will the online application supporting entering a complicated FOREIGN ADDRESS, or not?

 

Again, thanks so much for any and all help.

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Jingthing

[Rhys]

Lucked out, I understood the guy in Manila, only problem is they list me as deceased...so SSA held up my IRS for  2017.. and now I go to the Embassy in Bangkok with proof of life...

 

As far as SS benefits processing.  I think yes they / he  (Mr. N) will take a few weeks to process, but he does come through.

 

Just found out about not being able to process at 62 if you are still working full time.. hmmm.  

 

However, trying to clear up the proof of life issues, 

 

In relation to the direct deposit, form, yes they sent it to me to fill out.. and I had already opened an Account with Bangkok Bank.

 

Adventures in Thailand and with SSA 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Rhys

[NancyL]

JT, I've found that submitting the form online and then email Manila a day or two latter and telling them you already submitted the form is a good way to go, especially if your situation is "clean", i.e. born in the USA, no discrepancies in your data, like being noted as dead in some gov't records or having incorrect birthday noted, etc.  

 

By applying online first, the person in Manila can review the data in advance and the phone call goes very quickly.  S/he still has to ask the questions, but know the answers in advance from your form submission and just wants to make sure you're being consistent and not changing your answers.

 

Some people think the questions are "stupid", like if you've ever worked for the railroad, etc, but just go along with it.

[Sheryl]

To apply online a person does "not" need a mySSA online account. 
 
But to create a mySSA online account to be used for a  variety of other purposes a person needs a U.S. address reflecting in the IRS and/or credit reporting agency systems.  Plus they only offer a U.S. address entry format; not an international entry format.  The U.S. address you enter during the mySSA registration/enrollment process will be bucked against your latest address reflecting in the IRS/credit reporting agency databases to help ensure you are who you say you are during the online account opening process. 
 
Now I guess to get a mySSA online account created without a U.S. address you need to visit a social security office where they can do some immediate confirmation of your identity.
 
 

They can't. I'm in the US now and just tried.

You have to have a US address that can be verified against credit bureau records etc. It will not accept a foreign address, there are no fields for it in the way the program is set up, and if you enter a US address that their system can't verify the account will not be set up. I tried with the address on my driver's license but no luck. Apparently they use mostly Credit Bureau database.


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[Pib]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

 

 

Member Pib in the context of finding out what the interview questions will be when interviewed by Manila here mentioned do the application online  and then do NOT submit!

I assume that comment was only in the context of finding out the questions rather than a comment on whether to start the application online or not.

 

Yes, only in the context to see the type of questions will ask.   Whether you want to submit online or submit via Manila is purely a personal choice...either way works.

 

Personally, and based on hind sight/personal experience, if I was a U.S. born citizen, submitting based on my own earning record, and did not earn any benefits from another country due to past/current overseas work,  I would just submit online to ensure all my data gets input correctly/spelled corrected/etc., because I now know there is little chance any additional docs would be required which can slow down the processing.    Let's call this a "Clean" application like how Nancy L. described it.   Just an "uncomplicated" application.

 

You'll still end up getting a phone call from Baltimore or Manila for an interview but at least they'll already have your full info from your application and additional info contained in their system regarding you.  This means far fewer questions....a quick interview.   They don't have to ask a bunch of questions which are really only being asked because you didn't submit via online application and they need to get that info and type it in an application on their system.  

 

And you didn't fight a possible mini-battle of just getting a telephone interview scheduled with Manila which can occur sometimes happen as they may be backed-up with other interviews to schedule/accomplish...and a lot of those interviews are dealing with "not-clean, complicated" applications.  Life has a way of making a person's situation complicated.

 

Keep in mind the Manila office handles applicants from approx 50 countries on on this half of the world....it's ain't like they just provide service for folks in the P.I., Thailand and a few other nearby countries.  They are a small but very busy office....so keep that in mind when dealing with them.

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They can't. I'm in the US now and just tried.
 

So, you are saying you went to a social security office, set at a rep's desk, and they could not create an account for you?

[parallaxtech]

My problem is with Bangkok Bank.  I have three accounts in the US (BOA, Fidelity, BB NY) but went to set up a Direct Deposit at BB in Central.  At first, they didn't know what it was and I told them to call BB in Bangkok for instructions, which they refused to do.  Finally, a clerk came who seemed to know a bit about it.  She said they just needed my passport and house book (Tabien Bahn).  I showed them my blue TB with the document from Thai Immigration stating I was the legal owner of the house.  Then, they requested an audit of my company so got one from my accountant (1100 B).  Now, they want a copy of my social security card-- haven't seen that since I was 18!  I emailed SS Manila but no response.  I have interviewed with Manila and sent them all the forms, minus the bank form, so do you think I should give up on BB and use one of my US accounts?

[Pib]

18 minutes ago, parallaxtech said:

My problem is with Bangkok Bank.  I have three accounts in the US (BOA, Fidelity, BB NY) but went to set up a Direct Deposit at BB in Central.  At first, they didn't know what it was and I told them to call BB in Bangkok for instructions, which they refused to do.  Finally, a clerk came who seemed to know a bit about it.  She said they just needed my passport and house book (Tabien Bahn).  I showed them my blue TB with the document from Thai Immigration stating I was the legal owner of the house.  Then, they requested an audit of my company so got one from my accountant (1100 B).  Now, they want a copy of my social security card-- haven't seen that since I was 18!  I emailed SS Manila but no response.  I have interviewed with Manila and sent them all the forms, minus the bank form, so do you think I should give up on BB and use one of my US accounts?

 

Probably best to get a replacement SS card because Thai banks, especially Bangkok Bank, will usually ask American citizens for their SS card (the bank makes a copy of the original) when opening a new account.....I guess it's to confirm the correct number is being given and to cover their butts.  All part of the FATCA thing.

 

If you don't have the card then it's up to the that bank branch to take your word for it or not....and they may decide they simply require the card.    From personal experience in helping two people over the last 18 months or so to open a Bangkok Bank direct deposit account, in both cases the SS card was asked for.  One person did not have it...didn't know she needed to bring it along...but she was able to produce other ID that had her SS number on it so that made the branch happy....account opened.  In the other case the person had their SS card when the bank rep asked for it....account opened.

 

A SS-5 form is used to request a replacement card among other things.  Submit to Manila.  The wife did this recently....received replacement card in approx 3 weeks. Download SS-5 below.

 

https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ss-5.pdf

[parallaxtech]

Pib, thanks for your help!  I just filled it out and emailed same to Manila.  It seems to me that Manila could just issue a letter stating that you were eligible for benefits, but Thailand would probably want it translated into Thai.  

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

So, you are saying you went to a social security office, set at a rep's desk, and they could not create an account for you?

Correct.

 

Also discussed with several reps on the phone.

 

It is the way the online system is set up. Reps in the office cannot get around the need for a US address not override the need for the system to verify.

[Jingthing]

My problem is with Bangkok Bank.  I have three accounts in the US (BOA, Fidelity, BB NY) but went to set up a Direct Deposit at BB in Central.  At first, they didn't know what it was and I told them to call BB in Bangkok for instructions, which they refused to do.  Finally, a clerk came who seemed to know a bit about it.  She said they just needed my passport and house book (Tabien Bahn).  I showed them my blue TB with the document from Thai Immigration stating I was the legal owner of the house.  Then, they requested an audit of my company so got one from my accountant (1100 B).  Now, they want a copy of my social security card-- haven't seen that since I was 18!  I emailed SS Manila but no response.  I have interviewed with Manila and sent them all the forms, minus the bank form, so do you think I should give up on BB and use one of my US accounts?

Your problem was at BB at Central in.which city?

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[Jingthing]

I understand you can apply for benefits online and don't need a myssa account to do that.

However if you do open a myssa account with a US address that can be verified with a credit agency will that address be used to send proof of life letters and other correspondence to? I think most expats want those things mailed to their foreign address.

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[Jingthing]

Maybe someone answered this already and I missed it but I want to know if the online application as opposed to myssa supports putting in a foreign address. Thanks.

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[JimGant]

Quote

do you think I should give up on BB and use one of my US accounts?

Answer would be 'yes,' even without the runaround BB is giving you. Many use

Direct Deposit because they don't have a US financial account. But this is certainly not your situation. And, with apologies for going over a well-worn subject, let me do so:

 

A Direct Deposit (DD) account can only be accessed in person -- and that person can only be you. No ATM access, no online access, no spouse access. So, hopefully you live near your BB, and can walk unassisted. But, break your back -- or worse, go into a coma -- imagine the problems your special someone -- if you even have one -- will have to try and override the special DD rules that exist.

 

But deposit your SS into a US account, the added flexibility is amazing. First, with cost comparisons Pib has done elsewhere on this forum, the cost of doing a TransferWise transfer of an average SS payment, between $1500 and $2000, would be on par with a DD, which (as many don't know -- and because of that started a class action suit) charges the standard BBNY upfront fee ($5 for $1500-$2000) and backend fee of 200 baht.

 

Plus, you can set up a recurring transfer with TW, or not -- if you don't want an automatic dump same time every month. AND big plus -- you don't have to send to BB with TW. If the most convenient bank to you is SCB, that's where you open an account, and that's where you have TW send the money. And , since such an account wouldn't be a restricted DD account, feel free to  tap it with ATM, and online, or by anyone you choose -- should you break your back.

 

And, sounds now like BBNY is covering its six about whether or not DD will be around come April 2019. I'm sure it will be, unless somehow the puritans insist the Feds also have to be pure in their IAT formatting. In which case, by using a US account, and TW for transfer to your bank of choice in Thailand, you won't care what happens.

 

No brainer.