If Trump’s Fundraising Numbers Are Any Clue, He’s in Serious Trouble

[webfact]

Trump drama now moves to Tehran

By The Nation

 

 

The EU must not give in to US pressure and must stand by its companies doing business in Iran 

 

To call it arrogance would be an understatement when one talks about US President Donald Trump’s recent threat on how he would punish US trading partners who do business with Iran.

 

“Anyone doing business with Iran will NOT be doing business with the United States. I am asking for WORLD PEACE, nothing less!”

 

The statement came after his administration reimposed blanket sanctions on Iran because he wants to scrap the nuclear deal that the country achieved along with other members of the international community.

 

Trump described the new sanctions “the most biting ever imposed”.

 

As expected, the new round of sanctions caused jitters in the global market. But the European Union doesn’t want any of Trump’s shenanigans.

 

The EU has vowed to protect firms doing legitimate business in Iran. It has instructed its companies to ignore Trump’s rant and added that those who decide to pull out because of US sanctions face the risk of being sued by EU member states.

 

The Trump administration said it was not particularly concerned by the EU decision. But is that a way to treat longstanding allies?

 

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani will have to do more than just dismiss Trump’s threat as “psychological warfare” designed to help his party in the upcoming mid-term elections.

 

While that may have some truth to it, the return of sanctions will definitely add to the sense of anguish in Iranian society.

 

Already, German businesses are “in retreat” from Iran amid concerns that banking channels will crumble under US pressure.

 

“It’s important that the EU and the German government work to find funding channels,” said Martin Wansleben from the German Chamber of Commerce in Iran.

 

Overcoming this period of hardship will depend on how Iran can stave off pressure from the Trump administration. Iran will need support from members of the international community to stay united against Trump.

 

In the end, the EU must do all it can to counter the uncertainty over the future of European businesses in Iran. The regional bloc was instrumental in working with the Obama administration to achieve this nuclear deal with Iran and it would be unfortunate for the EU to back down now because of bullying from the US president.

 

The EU must work to preserve the nuclear deal with Iran because it is a matter of international security. It is also about respecting an international agreement. Many people in Iran see Trump’s move as an attempt to push for a regime change. One way to counter this effort, said reformist ex-president Mohammad Khatami, one of the most popular figures inside Iran, is to push for reforms that could bring the country out of the current political deadlock and crisis.

 

The current crop of Iranian leaders can start with opening up political space for frank discussions about reform and freedom.

 

Khatami’s suggestions include the release of all political prisoners and creating an atmosphere conducive for frank and honest discussion. While Trump has said he is willing to meet with President Rouhani to work on a new and more comprehensive deal, the world has seen this drama before regarding North Korea.

 

Trump’s cheap ploy seems to be: create a crisis with a lot of rhetoric so he can come to the rescue.

 

He has no scruples in employing the same tactic with neighbours and allies. Trump imposed a variety of tariffs on Canada and Mexico, citing “national security”. But his real aim is to get these two countries to modify the North America Free Trade Agreement to his terms.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30351763

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-08-09

[kannot]

15 minutes ago, webfact said:

those who decide to pull out because of US sanctions face the risk of being sued by EU member states

hah, from one threat to another

[Thailand]

From the book of "How to piss off people and lose friends"

[dexterm]

Two instances from the OP are perfect examples of Trump calling black white.

"I am asking for WORLD PEACE, nothing less!”
..when his attempt to bring Iran to its knees may actually escalate into war. If the proverbial hits the fan, I hope folks will recall who needlessly started this whole shemozzle by reneging on a denuclearization deal that was working.

 

and another fact check required...
"It has instructed its companies to ignore Trump’s rant and added that those who decide to pull out because of US sanctions face the risk of being sued by EU member states. The Trump administration said it was not particularly concerned by the EU decision. But is that a way to treat longstanding allies?"

..precisely. Are Trump's unilateral threats to punish EU and other companies who won't obey his diktat any way to treat longstanding allies?

 

For the first time in the history of the UN, the USA wants to penalize other countries not for violating a security council resolution, but rather, for abiding by it.

[Snow Leopard]

I don't always a agree with Trump to say the least but in this instance he is correct. The EU companies involved in trade with Iran will comply as well. No other choice really.

 

There is a group high up in Iran that is still causing havoc across the region. Sponsoring all kinds of wars, revolts and fuelling extremism. There was no real trouble in the Middle East outwith the Israel and Palestinian issue until the ayatollahs came along and apart from everyone's best efforts to solve the issue these guys are keeping the fire going on their hate for Israel. 

 

Sanctions got them to the table in the first place. it is the only peaceful way to move forward. Cut off their finances. I have no wish to punish the Iranian people in anyway either but something needs to be done.

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, Snow Leopard said:

I don't always a agree with Trump to say the least but in this instance he is correct. The EU companies involved in trade with Iran will comply as well. No other choice really.

 

There is a group high up in Iran that is still causing havoc across the region. Sponsoring all kinds of wars, revolts and fuelling extremism. There was no real trouble in the Middle East outwith the Israel and Palestinian issue until the ayatollahs came along and apart from everyone's best efforts to solve the issue these guys are keeping the fire going on their hate for Israel. 

 

Sanctions got them to the table in the first place. it is the only peaceful way to move forward. Cut off their finances. I have no wish to punish the Iranian people in anyway either but something needs to be done.

I am wondering wath planet some of you living at? What you describe in this post,  goes for Usa as well, who have sponsored and started wars in their own interest, or to protect their own interests solely! Every other countries is terrorist states except Usa who do the same, but what Usa do is keeping the world peace. The good samaritan who have sacrified everything for the world peace. Bullshit! 

 

 

[Snow Leopard]

25 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I am wondering wath planet some of you living at? What you describe in this post,  goes for Usa as well, who have sponsored and started wars in their own interest, or to protect their own interests solely! Every other countries is terrorist states except Usa who do the same, but what Usa do is keeping the world peace. The good samaritan who have sacrified everything for the world peace. Bullshit! 

 

 

I didn't say what you wrote. I said in this instance. Iran is such a model state and sets an example for every country in the world to follow for its freedom of speech, liberalism and democracy correct!!! 

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, Snow Leopard said:

I didn't say what you wrote. I said in this instance. Iran is such a model state and sets an example for every country in the world to follow for its freedom of speech, liberalism and democracy correct!!! 

Sanctions have a history full of fouls, misery, and tell how good was the Iraq sanctions working? Bombing every week by Uk and Us hurting the people, not the leaders. Middle east is so full of deleted up history, and the state Israel is one of them! 

[nobodysfriend]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

I am asking for WORLD PEACE, nothing less!

But he is doing the opposite !

A person who acts very differently from what he talks is commonly referred to as a " liar ' .

[Proboscis]

4 hours ago, Snow Leopard said:

I don't always a agree with Trump to say the least but in this instance he is correct. The EU companies involved in trade with Iran will comply as well. No other choice really.

 

There is a group high up in Iran that is still causing havoc across the region. Sponsoring all kinds of wars, revolts and fuelling extremism. There was no real trouble in the Middle East outwith the Israel and Palestinian issue until the ayatollahs came along and apart from everyone's best efforts to solve the issue these guys are keeping the fire going on their hate for Israel. 

 

Sanctions got them to the table in the first place. it is the only peaceful way to move forward. Cut off their finances. I have no wish to punish the Iranian people in anyway either but something needs to be done.

I am not sure which planet you inhabit but on planet Earth your views do not fit the facts.

1. Until now, it was generally the case that democraties did not dictate to other democraties with whom they do not have serious conflict issues about their trade and investment decisions. Even if EU based companies do comply, this will simply push Iran into the hands of the Chinese who will provide the financing and tech to what is reportedly already a wello-educated population.

2. There was no real trouble in Iran until the CIA interfered with the internal affairs of Iran and engineered the unseating of Mosaddegh in 1953 in a coup. Mosaddegh was a moderate who was democratically elected but was unhappy at the way his country's oil was being effectively stolen by the British and wanted to nationalise the British owned oil company - hence the coup. The USA imposed the Shah who was in turn deposed in a revolution and now you have the current regime. Now you understand why they say, "Death to America" during their demonstrations!

3. Iran has local interests in the region and has alliances with Hamas, Iraqi government and Quatar. It played a large role  in the fight against ISIS. It does not invade other countries. Yes, it sponsors Hamas. And it supports the government of its neighbour, Syria - given the behaviour of the Syrian government, this would not be something anyone would support but if you are a county under pressure, the last thing you need is an imploding state on your doorstep. It spent a lot of effort fighting against ISIS in Iraq. If you are going to make use of this argument, you would need to mention Saudi Arabia as the largest funder of terrorism ever. Saudi Arabia are also carrying out a war in Yemen that is creating probably the greatest public health crisis on the globe for the population there.

4. Lets get something clear in the Middle East - either everyone hates Israel or they are at best reluctant silent partners. Lets look at Israel's friends in the Middle East - Egypt (repressive military dictatorship, major human rights transgressor), Saudi Arabia (major funder of terrorism and not even an open friend of Israel but possibly a secret ally), Kingdon of Jordan (has signed treaties with Israel but its relations with Israel are often strained and has a huge Palestinian population made up of refugees from the time of the creation of the state of Israel)

5. Sanctions are supposed to be for something, to get a country to do something. In this case, it is presumably to get Iran not to build nuclear weapons. But we had one of the most robust agreements in place already. Trump did not like it, possibly because he saw it as Obama's agreement (even though it was an agreement involving many countries, including the EU and Russia) and he spoofed his base that this was a terrible agreement. So now we sanction Iran again to get them to sign another agreement. But it cannot be the same agreement even though, by all accounts, Trump would probably readily agree such an agreement with North Korea immediately. The truth about these sanctions is that they are intended to punish Iran for being Iran. This is truly the road to hell as it only makes enemies and no other outcomes.

6. Beware what you wish for. The sanctions you support will only affect the poor and lower middle class in the urban areas of Iran - those who own land can get food and there will be more expensive medicines and other goods that can be imported from countries like China. Sanctions will lead to many more children dying due to a lack of medicine and to general misery. Yes, they will lead to unrest because so many more young people will be without a job. But we have seen before that this creates terrorism, not revolution. For instance, Al Qaida was said to have started in Saudi because so many young men could not get a job due to a downturn in the economy. They would hang around in coffee shops being bitter and ripe for something and along came someone who told them that it was the West who was responsible for their problems. Those young men did not rise up against the Saudi government but against the West. As in Saudi Arabia, there is already a well-oiled machine of repression in Iran that can take care of insurgencies. I think that America is now making yet another stick to beat its own back.

Instead of targeting the general population, why not target the sanctions at specific personalities? There are plenty to choose from.

[nobodysfriend]

2 hours ago, Proboscis said:

I am not sure which planet you inhabit but on planet Earth your views do not fit the facts.

1. Until now, it was generally the case that democraties did not dictate to other democraties with whom they do not have serious conflict issues about their trade and investment decisions. Even if EU based companies do comply, this will simply push Iran into the hands of the Chinese who will provide the financing and tech to what is reportedly already a wello-educated population.

2. There was no real trouble in Iran until the CIA interfered with the internal affairs of Iran and engineered the unseating of Mosaddegh in 1953 in a coup. Mosaddegh was a moderate who was democratically elected but was unhappy at the way his country's oil was being effectively stolen by the British and wanted to nationalise the British owned oil company - hence the coup. The USA imposed the Shah who was in turn deposed in a revolution and now you have the current regime. Now you understand why they say, "Death to America" during their demonstrations!

3. Iran has local interests in the region and has alliances with Hamas, Iraqi government and Quatar. It played a large role  in the fight against ISIS. It does not invade other countries. Yes, it sponsors Hamas. And it supports the government of its neighbour, Syria - given the behaviour of the Syrian government, this would not be something anyone would support but if you are a county under pressure, the last thing you need is an imploding state on your doorstep. It spent a lot of effort fighting against ISIS in Iraq. If you are going to make use of this argument, you would need to mention Saudi Arabia as the largest funder of terrorism ever. Saudi Arabia are also carrying out a war in Yemen that is creating probably the greatest public health crisis on the globe for the population there.

4. Lets get something clear in the Middle East - either everyone hates Israel or they are at best reluctant silent partners. Lets look at Israel's friends in the Middle East - Egypt (repressive military dictatorship, major human rights transgressor), Saudi Arabia (major funder of terrorism and not even an open friend of Israel but possibly a secret ally), Kingdon of Jordan (has signed treaties with Israel but its relations with Israel are often strained and has a huge Palestinian population made up of refugees from the time of the creation of the state of Israel)

5. Sanctions are supposed to be for something, to get a country to do something. In this case, it is presumably to get Iran not to build nuclear weapons. But we had one of the most robust agreements in place already. Trump did not like it, possibly because he saw it as Obama's agreement (even though it was an agreement involving many countries, including the EU and Russia) and he spoofed his base that this was a terrible agreement. So now we sanction Iran again to get them to sign another agreement. But it cannot be the same agreement even though, by all accounts, Trump would probably readily agree such an agreement with North Korea immediately. The truth about these sanctions is that they are intended to punish Iran for being Iran. This is truly the road to hell as it only makes enemies and no other outcomes.

6. Beware what you wish for. The sanctions you support will only affect the poor and lower middle class in the urban areas of Iran - those who own land can get food and there will be more expensive medicines and other goods that can be imported from countries like China. Sanctions will lead to many more children dying due to a lack of medicine and to general misery. Yes, they will lead to unrest because so many more young people will be without a job. But we have seen before that this creates terrorism, not revolution. For instance, Al Qaida was said to have started in Saudi because so many young men could not get a job due to a downturn in the economy. They would hang around in coffee shops being bitter and ripe for something and along came someone who told them that it was the West who was responsible for their problems. Those young men did not rise up against the Saudi government but against the West. As in Saudi Arabia, there is already a well-oiled machine of repression in Iran that can take care of insurgencies. I think that America is now making yet another stick to beat its own back.

Instead of targeting the general population, why not target the sanctions at specific personalities? There are plenty to choose from.

You got it !!!

thanks ...

[candide]

5 hours ago, Snow Leopard said:

There was no real trouble in the Middle East outwith the Israel and Palestinian issue until the ayatollahs came along and apart from everyone's best efforts to solve the issue these guys are keeping the fire going on their hate for Israel

Ahem... Never heard of Al Qaida and ISIS, which raise has been a consequence of the previous Republican administration's involvement in the ME? ?

 

They have also been initially funded and supported by Saudi Arabia, one of Trump's main ally. Additionally, Iran has played a key role in fighting ISIS.

Edited August 9, 2018 by candide

[from the home of CC]

As Saudi has invested heavily in Twitter and the Fox corp. this  Iran action makes a lot of sense to Trump.

[candide]

41 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

As Saudi has invested heavily in Twitter and the Fox corp. this  Iran action makes a lot of sense to Trump.

It is actually funny how Trump has drastically changed his mind about  Saudi Arabia. ?

Quote:

Before taking office, however, Trump identified Saudi Arabia as the “world’s biggest funder of terrorism.” He wrote these comments in his 2011 book, “Time to Get Tough: Make America Great Again!”

“Saudi Arabia funnels our petro dollars, our very own money, to fund the terrorists that seek to destroy our people while the Saudis rely on us to protect them,” Trump wrote. His attacks on the Arab nation continued during his presidential campaign.

The Intercept noted Thursday that twice in a single day Trump said Saudi Arabia was behind the 9/11 terror attacks. He asked “Fox and Friends” hosts on Feb. 17, 2016, “Who blew up the World Trade Center?”

“It wasn’t the Iraqis, it was Saudi — take a look at Saudi Arabia, open the documents,” Trump continued.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/19/trump-signs-arms-deal-and-visits-saudis-after-saying-they-fund-terror-and-were-behind-911/

 

 

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

It is actually funny how Trump has drastically changed his mind about  Saudi Arabia. ?

Quote:

Before taking office, however, Trump identified Saudi Arabia as the “world’s biggest funder of terrorism.” He wrote these comments in his 2011 book, “Time to Get Tough: Make America Great Again!”

“Saudi Arabia funnels our petro dollars, our very own money, to fund the terrorists that seek to destroy our people while the Saudis rely on us to protect them,” Trump wrote. His attacks on the Arab nation continued during his presidential campaign.

The Intercept noted Thursday that twice in a single day Trump said Saudi Arabia was behind the 9/11 terror attacks. He asked “Fox and Friends” hosts on Feb. 17, 2016, “Who blew up the World Trade Center?”

“It wasn’t the Iraqis, it was Saudi — take a look at Saudi Arabia, open the documents,” Trump continued.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/19/trump-signs-arms-deal-and-visits-saudis-after-saying-they-fund-terror-and-were-behind-911/

 

 

And then his failed Muslim ban didn't even include Saudi

[connda]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

“Anyone doing business with Iran will NOT be doing business with the United States. I am asking for WORLD PEACE, nothing less!”

"War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength."
 

[Retiredandhappyhere]

7 hours ago, Hummin said:

Sanctions have a history full of fouls, misery, and tell how good was the Iraq sanctions working? Bombing every week by Uk and Us hurting the people, not the leaders. Middle east is so full of deleted up history, and the state Israel is one of them! 

Although I can agree with you on some points,  I disagree on your statement  "Hurting the  people, not the leaders".   Where is Saddam Hussein now? 

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Although I can agree with you on some points,  I disagree on your statement  "Hurting the  people, not the leaders".   Where is Saddam Hussein now? 

I have to remind you, they bombed the country for a decade before invading it, make a total caos killing and hurting kids, families and the country on false evidences! I think/thought most people know that by now. 

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, car720 said:

Precisely.  The world's policeman is going to arrest these guys in order to put in their own guys.  These guys however are hardy and can go back to living in tents if they have to.  I wonder is the Americans can go back to living in log cabins.  I doubt it.

"I wonder if Americans can go back to living in log cabins.."

 

Only if there is free pizza delivery and a hell of a lot of comfort eating which does not involve buffalo or confronting Sioux indians...

 

 

 

[t8769]

> And then his failed Muslim ban didn't even include Saudi 

 

It wasn't a Muslim ban, it only  effected a few countries identified by the Obama regime as dangerous.

 

It did not fail, it went ahead

 

It didn't include any Muslim country which had sufficient vetting procedures.

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by t8769

[zydeco]

3 hours ago, car720 said:

Precisely.  The world's policeman is going to arrest these guys in order to put in their own guys.  These guys however are hardy and can go back to living in tents if they have to.  I wonder is the Americans can go back to living in log cabins.  I doubt it.

I don't think too many Iranians ever lived in tents. A couple of generations ago many were living in huts with earth floors. But Iran has a varied climate, forests, plains, etc. There used to be nomadic tribes, but those fell away in the 1920s with the coming of modern transport. See Cooper and Schoedsack's documentary, Grass.

[bristolboy]

5 hours ago, car720 said:

Precisely.  The world's policeman is going to arrest these guys in order to put in their own guys.  These guys however are hardy and can go back to living in tents if they have to.  I wonder is the Americans can go back to living in log cabins.  I doubt it.

Your ignorance betrays you. I'm guessing you're thinking of Arabs. Iranians are Persians. Iran is an ancient civilization dating back at least 2500 years. It's a civilization that has produced some of the world's greatest architecture, literature and art.

[Hummin]

23 hours ago, candide said:

It is actually funny how Trump has drastically changed his mind about  Saudi Arabia. ?

Quote:

Before taking office, however, Trump identified Saudi Arabia as the “world’s biggest funder of terrorism.” He wrote these comments in his 2011 book, “Time to Get Tough: Make America Great Again!”

“Saudi Arabia funnels our petro dollars, our very own money, to fund the terrorists that seek to destroy our people while the Saudis rely on us to protect them,” Trump wrote. His attacks on the Arab nation continued during his presidential campaign.

The Intercept noted Thursday that twice in a single day Trump said Saudi Arabia was behind the 9/11 terror attacks. He asked “Fox and Friends” hosts on Feb. 17, 2016, “Who blew up the World Trade Center?”

“It wasn’t the Iraqis, it was Saudi — take a look at Saudi Arabia, open the documents,” Trump continued.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/19/trump-signs-arms-deal-and-visits-saudis-after-saying-they-fund-terror-and-were-behind-911/

 

 

And still his voters and supporters do not get it? How stupid is it possible to be?

Edited August 10, 2018 by Hummin

[Hummin]

13 minutes ago, car720 said:

The tent thing was not a reference to Arabs really and the 2500 years thing is nothing compared to China and they have produced even more great things.

There is many versions, but they aggree on the same timeline most of them. 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Hummin

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, car720 said:

 

Thank you.  A very interesting little presentation but it shows nothing of the march out of Africa or the migration of the Asiatics across the land bridge into the Americas.  For my opinion these things are far too easily manipulated.

This is the timeline of the beginning of civilation Around 3200 B.C., civilization began in two separate areas. In an location that the world now knows as Iraq, the Sumerians settled to form Mesopotamia. In North Africa, ancient Egypt began to form along the Nile Valley.

 

Sourche 

Wiki, Quora, history world etc, and yes, as far I know we are all Africans!

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Hummin

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, car720 said:

 

But these are modern.  Mankind was around long before this.

Of course they where, but modern history, with societies and formed set rules and cities, started in middle east as far I know with my knownledge. Nothing to argue about. I misread your post, and was thinking civilations, when you ment migration ?

 

Have a great afternoon sir. 

[zydeco]

Trump now moving on from Tehran to Ankara. As Turkish lira collapses, Trump piles on double the tariffs. Erdogoing . . . Erdogoing . . . Erdogone.