Thaksin vows to fight for ‘democracy'

[robblok]

1 minute ago, rodney earl said:

I would be interested to know what he knows about democracy. Not very much I would suggest.!!!

He knows enough to use it to his advantage to look good  (when not in power) and when in power he knows enough to shut down all control mechanisms. So lets say he knows how to exploit it. 

[Eric Loh]

All goes down on whether his party will still win enough to form the government. Pundits and even the Dem said they will. Is that something his party is doing right or the junta is doing all wrong to made this an election between democracy and authoritarianism. 

[Media1]

In the end like all before them these this regime will be scampering back to barracks waiting For the next chance to make a earn off the country. But little do they know that evolution will see a new internationally accepted charter which shall include the word treason.

[robblok]

18 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

All goes down on whether his party will still win enough to form the government. Pundits and even the Dem said they will. Is that something his party is doing right or the junta is doing all wrong to made this an election between democracy and authoritarianism. 

Your wrong its an election between to evils.. one slightly less evil as the other because he can be removed easier. 

 

Almost nobody shares your view that Thaksin is democratic... just look how much support you got here.. That must say something about the popularity of your hero with the educated foreigners on this forum. 

 

 

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, Media1 said:

In the end like all before them these this regime will be scampering back to barracks waiting For the next chance to make a earn off the country. But little do they know that evolution will see a new internationally accepted charter which shall include the word treason.

In the end it all comes down if the PTP hands them a reason, had they not included Thaksin in that amnesty the people would not have gone out to protest. Later protests were supported by Suthep and others but at first it was just students, and middle class. 

 

The army might have started a coup anyway but it would never have had the support they had last time because of the arrogance of Thaksin by including him in the amnesty. So all the PTP has to do to stay in power and prevent a coup is to play by the rules. Unfortunately that is not something they like to do.  

[Media1]

17 minutes ago, robblok said:

In the end it all comes down if the PTP hands them a reason, had they not included Thaksin in that amnesty the people would not have gone out to protest. Later protests were supported by Suthep and others but at first it was just students, and middle class. 

 

The army might have started a coup anyway but it would never have had the support they had last time because of the arrogance of Thaksin by including him in the amnesty. So all the PTP has to do to stay in power and prevent a coup is to play by the rules. Unfortunately that is not something they like to do.  

Spare me Suthep is a porn been in with them well before the coup. Was all well planned. The former police chief should be heavily pursued. There laughable but Thai people are simple and know nothing better. A party like Future Forward is what Thais crave for. There scared old men with watch and car catalogues. The word vial comes to mind.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Media1

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Media1 said:

Spare me Suthep is a porn been in with them well before the coup. Was all well planned. The former police chief should be heavily pursued. There laughable but Thai people are simple and know nothing better. A party like Future Forward is what Thais crave for. There scared old men with watch and car catalogues. The word vial comes to mind.

 

I never said it was not planned.. but the wide support the coup got was because of Thaksins amnesty.. They could not have planned that. People came on the street spontaneous, only later did Suthep take advantage of it. So sure the coup could have been planned before but it went so easy with so much support because of the arrogance of Thaksin. Had he not been so stupid the support would have been a lot less. 

[Eric Loh]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your wrong its an election between to evils.. one slightly less evil as the other because he can be removed easier. 

 

Almost nobody shares your view that Thaksin is democratic... just look how much support you got here.. That must say something about the popularity of your hero with the educated foreigners on this forum. 

 

 

Anybody can made claim that he is a democrat even Prayut with his ridiculous claim that he is a soldier with a democratic heart after he stage a coup. Absurdity at its best. Who really cares about the support here. Ultimately it is down to the people and their mandate. The people mandated his parties in all past elections to be the choice for government and the generals better learn to respect that or they will eventually face the wrath of the people. You may not like him but you have to respect the voices of the people. The junta has bent all the rules, re-written the laws and intimidate the politicians to gain unfair advantage in the coming election. They have evil intention to stay in power.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Anybody can made claim that he is a democrat even Prayut with his ridiculous claim that he is a soldier with a democratic heart after he stage a coup. Absurdity at its best. Who really cares about the support here. Ultimately it is down to the people and their mandate. The people mandated his parties in all past elections to be the choice for government and the generals better learn to respect that or they will eventually face the wrath of the people. You may not like him but you have to respect the voices of the people. The junta has bent all the rules, re-written the laws and intimidate the politicians to gain unfair advantage in the coming election. They have evil intention to stay in power.

Yes Prayut makes a claim to be a democrat and like you said.. crazy.. just like Thaksin his claim is crazy.

 

So what your saying is if they vote in Prayut then it means he is a democrat.. I don't get your logic. Hun Sen (Thaksins friend and example) has been voted in too.. is he a democrat too ?.  Sorry just following your logic. 

 

I always thought that how people behaved their actions would determine if someone is a democrat.. not if they were voted in.

[connda]

If the junta ever is perceived as shaking off the yolk of Western interests (i.e., pivots too far toward China) than don't be surprised to see the Taksins riding the crest of a 'color revolution' right back into power in the name of Democracy.
However if the junta remain supplicants to the West then the status quo should prevail. 

“America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests”

-- Henry Kissinger

Edited August 10, 2018 by connda

[Eric Loh]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes Prayut makes a claim to be a democrat and like you said.. crazy.. just like Thaksin his claim is crazy.

 

So what your saying is if they vote in Prayut then it means he is a democrat.. I don't get your logic. Hun Sen (Thaksins friend and example) has been voted in too.. is he a democrat too ?.  Sorry just following your logic. 

 

I always thought that how people behaved their actions would determine if someone is a democrat.. not if they were voted in.

You don't seem to grasp the meaning of the word democrat. If you understand that democrat is someone who believes in equality for all people and ruling by the majority, it will made your understanding much better. 

 

If Prayut participate in the election and win, he is a democrat and I will respect that. As for Hun Sen, his sham election has been criticized and has been labelled as the death of democracy. Would you call Assad a democrat. If Prayut banned all the opposition parties and rigged the election and got elected, ask yourself if he is a democrat. You are intelligent enough to know the difference. 

[Eric Loh]

24 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

I never said it was not planned.. but the wide support the coup got was because of Thaksins amnesty.. They could not have planned that. People came on the street spontaneous, only later did Suthep take advantage of it. So sure the coup could have been planned before but it went so easy with so much support because of the arrogance of Thaksin. Had he not been so stupid the support would have been a lot less. 

If the coup has been planned and as Suthep said after PTP won the election, the events were of no significance. The coup will happen. The amnesty was just the excuse. 

[Media1]

16 hours ago, bangrak said:

When this piece of garbage does really come from 'The Nation', oh my!

Maybe a silly trainee copying from some international news agency lobbied by Thaksin's specialist, but then, one might expect a public correction from 'The Nation'! But guess what....

It is not only serving as the loudspeaker of a convicted criminal, but to repeat the worn-out silly lies: 'living in self-exile' (like asking for authorisation to go to the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics, and the not come back, breaking his word?), 'overthrown by a military coup in 2006' (while his(!) party went on governing, even with a cousin as PM?).

Quotes like: 'Living outside the Kingdom to avoid what they call "unfair justice"' a good one too: doesn't Justice always seem unfair to the guilty... 'We won't lose as long as we fight': aha, I thought they were no more involved in Thai internal affairs, so: lying again about being 'retired', 'out of politics', etc., what is needed more to close down Thaksin's PTP shop, and any new one (FFP, who knows?)...?

'The most important war is that for democracy' is a good one though, IMO, the only problem in this coming out of Thaksin's mouth, is that he was never, ever, interested into 'democracy', just in the tiny little bits which could be usable inside his personal domination game!

Shame on you 'The Nation', never will I again buy your paper in printed form! You have no honour!

 

He is 3 fold better than the left over garbage that is currently sitting on the trash can lol

 

[Chris Lawrence]

12 hours ago, baboon said:

Perhaps not quite, but still a filthy Asian family dynasty being forced from office by a filthy elite. Both want the adulation of the people and their share of the take. There is not much to choose from, but at least the filthy Shinawatra dynasty could and possibly would have been slung out of office by now from the voting public. Now the public enjoy no such rights.

Their 'guardians' are back to stay for years and years to come. Fair enough. Just as long as the Thai working class don't bother me with appeals for help when they will do nothing for themselves..,.

So what are you going to do? Winging to me won't help. How pro active are u going to be?

[Chris Lawrence]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

If the coup has been planned and as Suthep said after PTP won the election, the events were of no significance. The coup will happen. The amnesty was just the excuse. 

Eric and Rob, he lost the support of the armed services who turn it to say they are protecting the Kingdom. The slap in the face was the telco win, traded on the share market which under the rules of capital gain no tax is paid for share market transaction. This pissed the Hi So's off that pillow talked in the ears of the Generals.

 

The only thing the generals have done is made martyrs from the exercise and are sh*t scared that the current constitution will or will not secure power. THey have been using the same guys to draw up these documents since 2006; so what do you think. How many bites of the cherry can one have. 

[Media1]

Just now, Chris Lawrence said:

Eric and Rob, he lost the support of the armed services who turn it to say they are protecting the Kingdom. The slap in the face was the telco win, traded on the share market which under the rules of capital gain no tax is paid for share market transaction. This pissed the Hi So's off that pillow talked in the ears of the Generals.

 

The only thing the generals have done is made martyrs from the exercise and are sh*t scared that the current constitution will or will not secure power. THey have been using the same guys to draw up these documents since 2006; so what do you think. How many bites of the cherry can one have. 

Army want money and this time they want a 20 year contract to get paid. This is a disgrace and the charter must identify treason. End of story

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No. Prayut hasn't run off (yet).

 

Nor did he promise to 'stand with you shoulder to shoulder when the first bullets fired" whilst really evacuating his family and going shopping in Paris. 

 

Your hero is as cowardly as they come.

 

OTOH Thaksin never promised to end corruption, never promised to reform the police or military, never promised to hold elections 2 or 3 times a year since 2-15 and still has not done so yet.

 

When the coup came back in 2014 I welcomed it and believed Many of the things that Prayuth promised would happen in Thailand. It took me a couple of years to realise that I was not as smart as I thought I was.

 

Now if it were possible for me to vote and given the choice of Thaksin or Prayuth only I would vote for Thaksin every time.

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

OTOH Thaksin never promised to end corruption, never promised to reform the police or military, never promised to hold elections 2 or 3 times a year since 2-15 and still has not done so yet.

 

When the coup came back in 2014 I welcomed it and believed Many of the things that Prayuth promised would happen in Thailand. It took me a couple of years to realise that I was not as smart as I thought I was.

 

Now if it were possible for me to vote and given the choice of Thaksin or Prayuth only I would vote for Thaksin every time.

I would vote for neither.. but like you I was fooled by the junta.. never fooled by Thaksin though. 

[Small Joke]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

OTOH Thaksin never promised to end corruption, never promised to reform the police or military, never promised to hold elections 2 or 3 times a year since 2-15 and still has not done so yet.

 

When the coup came back in 2014 I welcomed it and believed Many of the things that Prayuth promised would happen in Thailand. It took me a couple of years to realise that I was not as smart as I thought I was.

 

Now if it were possible for me to vote and given the choice of Thaksin or Prayuth only I would vote for Thaksin every time.

Yes,  more people were murdered on Thaksins orders than any other government since.  

How about none of the above? 

Voting without logic is why the world ends up with the pricks in charge that it has... Tragic. 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Small Joke

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

You don't seem to grasp the meaning of the word democrat. If you understand that democrat is someone who believes in equality for all people and ruling by the majority, it will made your understanding much better. 

 

If Prayut participate in the election and win, he is a democrat and I will respect that. As for Hun Sen, his sham election has been criticized and has been labelled as the death of democracy. Would you call Assad a democrat. If Prayut banned all the opposition parties and rigged the election and got elected, ask yourself if he is a democrat. You are intelligent enough to know the difference. 

Yes I know the difference that is why I don't call Thaksin an democrat. Neither do I call Prayut a democrat. Someone is a democrat only if they uphold democratic values. We have seen how high Thaksin values the Democratic principles when he pulled all power towards him at the end and dismantled the checks and balances. Prayut has staged a coup.. I would not call that upholding democratic values either. 

 

My point was and you missed it completely is that just running in an election does not mean a thing. Even Hitler ran in an election.. we know his ideas about democracy. The actions of a person determine if someone is a democrat or not. Thaksin failed, Prayut failed, Hun Sen failed, Assad failed. 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

If the coup has been planned and as Suthep said after PTP won the election, the events were of no significance. The coup will happen. The amnesty was just the excuse. 

The events were of huge significance, but you don't want to hear that otherwise you have to admit that Thaksin was at fault, something you can never do. 

 

If the army had just gone on the streets without there being a lot of discontent and street protest they would never have had the support they had now and would have had to be much more careful. Now because Thaksin made mistakes that brought out people to the streets (not paid for but genuine protesters) they had their extra support and excuse. 

 

It also did not help that the protesters were bombed (later proven red shirts) but Charlem did nothing and could not find anyone. Only added to the suport and rage against the PTP. 

 

Yes the coup would have happened... but their support / powerbase would have been totally different. 

 

If you know someone wants to kill you...  you dont hand them a loaded gun. You protect yourself.. the PTP gave the army a loaded gun and all the excuses they needed.

Edited August 10, 2018 by robblok

[metisdead]

Some troll posts have been removed. 

[Small Joke]

If this were dine correctly. 

The NCPO would devolve itself from government  during the run up,  and contest as a co challenger.  Not a poorly disguised  incumbent. 

[Eric Loh]

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

OTOH Thaksin never promised to end corruption, never promised to reform the police or military, never promised to hold elections 2 or 3 times a year since 2-15 and still has not done so yet.

 

When the coup came back in 2014 I welcomed it and believed Many of the things that Prayuth promised would happen in Thailand. It took me a couple of years to realise that I was not as smart as I thought I was.

 

Now if it were possible for me to vote and given the choice of Thaksin or Prayuth only I would vote for Thaksin every time.

Could never imagine you posting this couple of years ago. We had a history of different opinion. I think we agree that universal suffrage must be upheld. Whether it is Thaksin, Ahbisit, Thanatorn or even Prayut (if he take part in the election) the mandate from the electorate must be respected. Coups have been destructive and devisive and have never solved or benefited the people. This coup government will go down history as the longest non elected military government that abuses human rights and use unfair laws to prosecute people who have alternative opinion besides being very corrupted. 

 

[billd766]

13 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Could never imagine you posting this couple of years ago. We had a history of different opinion. I think we agree that universal suffrage must be upheld. Whether it is Thaksin, Ahbisit, Thanatorn or even Prayut (if he take part in the election) the mandate from the electorate must be respected. Coups have been destructive and devisive and have never solved or benefited the people. This coup government will go down history as the longest non elected military government that abuses human rights and use unfair laws to prosecute people who have alternative opinion besides being very corrupted. 

 

 

As I get older I manage to get a tiny bit wiser and less stupid.

 

Only another 10,000 years to go and I may get to the simple stage.

[Eric Loh]

49 minutes ago, Small Joke said:

Voting without logic is why the world ends up with the pricks in charge that it has... Tragic. 

You have a better system? 

[timber]

Don't see a problem the United States calls themselves a Democracy.

[Eligius]

1 hour ago, Media1 said:

Army want money and this time they want a 20 year contract to get paid. This is a disgrace and the charter must identify treason. End of story

Totally agree with you, Media1: those guilty of overthrowing an elected government should be put on trial for high treason.

 

But I am becoming so devoid of hope these days in Thailand: even if a new Constitution (say under Thanathorn) contained a treason clause, the army could still launch another coup, tear up the 'new' Constitution (as the coup makers always do), kick out the Thanathorn government, re-instate the junta with an even more perfect (for their purposes) militarised 'Constitution', and Thanathorn could then do nothing substantive against it. 

 

The fact is that power does not lie in the hands of one politician or one party; ultimately it ONLY lies in the hands of the entirety of the Thai people. They are the true sovereignty holders - and it is for them to do whatever is necessary to win their country back.

 

Will they do it?

 

I think some of us are more than doubtful ...

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Eligius

[PS2]

'Democracy is Not My Goal'

Thaksin Shinwatra, 11 December 2003

 

[robblok]

21 minutes ago, PS2 said:

'Democracy is Not My Goal'

Thaksin Shinwatra, 11 December 2003

 

Oh dear.. I wonder how Eric will explain this one. He calls Thaksin a democrat while what i read about him is that he does not care about democracy. His words.. so Eric.. why Thaksins change of heart.. Maybe because he is not in power... so now he can use democracy against the junta once back he will revert to his old ways.