Thaksin vows to fight for ‘democracy'

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

I'm not into 'provide a link', so i'll stay with 'I often have doubts about the accuracy of what you post'. 

I recall Abhisit did pay out victims but at a far lower rate then the PTP did.. it was multiple times higher. I remember the huge difference. So it was totally unfair of-course and I understand why its investigated. 

[candide]

50 minutes ago, robblok said:

I recall Abhisit did pay out victims but at a far lower rate then the PTP did.. it was multiple times higher. I remember the huge difference. So it was totally unfair of-course and I understand why its investigated. 

Yes, I remember we discussed that. It was much higher than what Abhisit paid. However, they also paid to a few yellow victims  (it just happened that the army shot only red shirts), so it cannot be said that it was discriminatory. I guess that in other countries they would not be convicted, but it is likely that the yellow judiciary will convict them for negligence or something similar.

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, candide said:

Yes, I remember we discussed that. It was much higher than what Abhisit paid. However, they also paid to a few yellow victims  (it just happened that the army shot only red shirts), so it cannot be said that it was discriminatory. I guess that in other countries they would not be convicted, but it is likely that the yellow judiciary will convict them for negligence or something similar.

Not sure if they paid out yellow victims too, can't really remember just remember that there was a bid difference and that we discussed it. I know that to me at the time it looked like it was extra high to make sure that next time people would come out to protest for the reds knowing that if something happend they were well compensated. I believe it was even higher (not that its much but it shows its much for Thai standards) then what is normally paid by insurance companies when someone dies in car accident and such. 

[candide]

16 minutes ago, robblok said:

Not sure if they paid out yellow victims too, can't really remember just remember that there was a bid difference and that we discussed it. I know that to me at the time it looked like it was extra high to make sure that next time people would come out to protest for the reds knowing that if something happend they were well compensated. I believe it was even higher (not that its much but it shows its much for Thai standards) then what is normally paid by insurance companies when someone dies in car accident and such. 

It concerned all victims between 2005 and 2010. I can imagine the prosecutor's speech: "it is unfair because the state killed more red shirts than yellow shirts, so the red shirts unfairly benefit more from this scheme!"  Lol.

This kind of argument would never be accepted in a foreign court, but in Thailand, it may well be.

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30321905

Edited August 13, 2018 by candide

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, candide said:

It concerned all victims between 2005 and 2010. I can imagine the prosecutor's speech: "it is unfair because the state killed more red shirts than yellow shirts, so the red shirts unfairly benefit more from this scheme!"  Lol.

This kind of argument would never be accepted in a foreign court, but in Thailand, it may well be.

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30321905

Of course that argument would not hold, if both parties were paid the same its not discriminatory at all. 

 

It seems I was right about the high payouts far more then any insurance company ever pays out 7 million.. never seen them pay that for any loss of life (in Thailand Thai insurance companies). So yes I understand that this raises questions. You should look up what normally gets paid out. It is totally outside what is normal for victim compensation. I think you can agree with me about that. Just look at the day to day amounts that get paid out for loss of life. 

[KhunFred]

Right up there with Prayut in fighting for Democracy. Yup!!

[candide]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

Of course that argument would not hold, if both parties were paid the same its not discriminatory at all. 

 

It seems I was right about the high payouts far more then any insurance company ever pays out 7 million.. never seen them pay that for any loss of life (in Thailand Thai insurance companies). So yes I understand that this raises questions. You should look up what normally gets paid out. It is totally outside what is normal for victim compensation. I think you can agree with me about that. Just look at the day to day amounts that get paid out for loss of life. 

Of course it is high. And of course, they likely did it for their supporters, as they constitute the main share of victims between 2005 and 2010.

 

But it would be very hard to make a legal case of it outside Thailand. Insurance compensations are just what insurance companies agree to pay according to how much fees customers pay. They don't particularly correspond to an established standard. The higher the subscription fees, the higher the compensation.

The previous government paid less, but they could have been mean. 

 

Anyway, they will probably nail them for negligence, as it is a very flexible concept. My guess is that they will not do it before elections, as the junta tries to attract previous red voters.

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Prayut and Ahbisit also have their compensation layout to victims of political violence. Got to wonder why they are not investigated and charged by the deep state agency NACC. 

Is that apples to apples?

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, candide said:

It concerned all victims between 2005 and 2010. I can imagine the prosecutor's speech: "it is unfair because the state killed more red shirts than yellow shirts, so the red shirts unfairly benefit more from this scheme!"  Lol.

This kind of argument would never be accepted in a foreign court, but in Thailand, it may well be.

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30321905

 

 

"I can imagine the prosecutor's speech: "it is unfair because the state killed more red shirts than yellow shirts, so the red shirts unfairly benefit more from this scheme!"  Lol."

 

So it's just your assumption/ supposition / hypothesis, not fact.

 

 

 

[candide]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

 

"I can imagine the prosecutor's speech: "it is unfair because the state killed more red shirts than yellow shirts, so the red shirts unfairly benefit more from this scheme!"  Lol."

 

So it's just your assumption/ supposition / hypothesis, not fact.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

 

"I can imagine the prosecutor's speech: "it is unfair because the state killed more red shirts than yellow shirts, so the red shirts unfairly benefit more from this scheme!"  Lol."

 

So it's just your assumption/ supposition / hypothesis, not fact.

 

 

 

If you had followed my various posts on this issue you would have understood that my point was that the discrimination argument, which has been raised several times, was not acceptable. So I was imagining how ridiculous it would be to use this argument in court (although I am not fully certain that it won't). Satisfied?

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Is that apples to apples?

I see you have accepted that all three governments had their compensation. Good on you not to doubt me. 

 

Now on let’s look at the similarities.

- compensation for victims of previous political activities ✔️

- TRTC recommendation ✔️ 

- compensation package agreed by all political parties in TRTC recommendation✔️

 

Apples to apples. Needless to say that the NACC have different interpretation. They have an agenda. 

[bangrak]

On 8/12/2018 at 5:27 PM, Jonah Tenner said:

In Thailand Democracy is a buzz word they use, because they believe it will give them an advantage with the voters. None of them really understands it.

A bit like 'Boutique' in tourism business then, you mean? LOL

[bangrak]

On 8/12/2018 at 6:02 PM, Father Fintan Stack said:

Thaksin was the best PM Thailand has ever had since 1932 in terms of what he gave to the poorest of the country. 

 

The only PM to serve a full term and the only PM to be elected to serve a second term. 

 

He was incredibly popular. His war on drugs and policies in the Southern provinces which are constantly criticised by posters here were universally popular.

 

These are the facts.

 

The amusing thing for me is most of his most vocal critics weren't here when he was serving as PM nor before when the corruption with Suthep and his Democrat buddies was in full swing.

 

Thaksin also was brilliant with the Western media and no PM before or after has come close to him. 

 

no wonder the inadequates in uniform are terrified of him.

'These are the facts', proclames 'Father Fintan Stack', but as his 'facts' have so often already been shown to be partial, biased, flawed, tainted, dishonest, false, fake, and more often resorting to pure lemming propaganda in favour of the Shins &Co. he seems to worship... 'The worst blind ...', never mind about him, this soul is beyond salvation. LOL

Edited August 13, 2018 by bangrak

[scorecard]

4 minutes ago, bangrak said:

'These are the facts', proclames 'Father Fintan Stack', but as his 'facts' have so often already been shown to be partial, biased, flawed, tainted, dishonest, false, fake, and more often resorting to pure lemming propaganda in favour of the Shins &Co. he seems to worship... 'The worst blind ...', never mind about him, this soul is beyond salvation. LOL

 

Wells said, but can I add 'illogical'.

[bangrak]

On 8/12/2018 at 7:33 PM, billd766 said:

 

Prayuth uses S44 and men in green suits carrying guns.

 

Much as I dislike Thaksin I would far rather see him back in charge the the power grabbing lot that Thailand has now.

Stay at home big bear, you haven't f.i. seen what it changed 'on the field', in real daily life, to have a few soldiers going on patrol with the BiBs (Thakky's 'pretorian guard', don't forget that either!)... So, do allow me to disagree with you (nobody outside of you and me will seriously bother a bit about it anyway...), and my guess is most (like a majority?) Thai people prefer the present evil to the worse 'political' ones they knew before. Sad, but quite realistic (on day-to-day base, ...as most Thais live), and it's their country after all, isn't it? 

[bangrak]

17 hours ago, candide said:

Are you really that ignorant on why it started?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra#The_War_on_Drugs

 

Help! Wiki, we're under attack about one of(!) the Master's worst killing sprees...

Ah, 'candide', how old were you when you were still 'candid'? ...Ever.

But I guess this means you do also agree with all what's on your 'new Bible', Wiki, about Siamese/Thai 'H'istory then, is it?

For you, and your quite sharp opinions, this reference does not mean shooting yourself in the foot, but rather like sitting on a live grenade, ...oops!

[bangrak]

15 hours ago, tomta said:

Not a surprise. Ignorance is a legal obligation. Without ignorance, the dutiful reverence would be impossible to maintain. An ignorant citizen is a good citizen, An informed citizen is a traitor.

...And an intelligent and well-educated person like yourself, is?

Acknowledging one's own ignorance is the beginning of wisdom' (or something like that, do apologize for my rusty ancient greek, I was taught in french on top of it...). Make that step for yourself, you'll discover 'ignorants' do know things you never thought possible, it will hurt your oversized ego quite a bit, but open worlds of wisdom to you.

Get real, it's never too late for that!

Edited August 13, 2018 by bangrak

[bangrak]

7 hours ago, candide said:

Yes, I remember we discussed that. It was much higher than what Abhisit paid. However, they also paid to a few yellow victims  (it just happened that the army shot only red shirts), so it cannot be said that it was discriminatory. I guess that in other countries they would not be convicted, but it is likely that the yellow judiciary will convict them for negligence or something similar.

'...(it just happened that the army shot only red shirts)..., 'candide' writes. May I then politely ask Mr 'candide' who possibly could have killed/shot/hurt/maimed, you name it, those 'few yellow shirts'?

Could Mr 'candide' please 'discriminate', and, honestly, in a genuine way, point a finger at the ones who did harm those 'few yellow shirts'? Honestly, and clearly? Tough question, hmm, 'candide'?

P.S.: Hope you're not versed in old french litterature, as then you would know what character the 'Candide', truly was, ...and probably not have chosen that name. Oh well, maybe you do know the Candide was a despicable hypocrite...

Edited August 13, 2018 by bangrak

[billd766]

33 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Stay at home big bear, you haven't f.i. seen what it changed 'on the field', in real daily life, to have a few soldiers going on patrol with the BiBs (Thakky's 'pretorian guard', don't forget that either!)... So, do allow me to disagree with you (nobody outside of you and me will seriously bother a bit about it anyway...), and my guess is most (like a majority?) Thai people prefer the present evil to the worse 'political' ones they knew before. Sad, but quite realistic (on day-to-day base, ...as most Thais live), and it's their country after all, isn't it? 

 

Up here in rural Khampaeng Phet most Thais don't really care that much who runs the country as they know they will get screwed anyway.

 

Strangely enough I saw an army Hummer twice in the village last week, the first one for a couple of years.

 

At 74 I stay home most of the time apart from the monthly bulk shop to KPP and the weekly run to the village for Sang Som, 285 whisky ( for me wife), soda and ice. The rest of the time I leave it to her.

 

I do have 2 savage guard cats for protection should the worst happen but they will probably bugger off under the small house at the first sign of a problem.

[The manic]

On 8/9/2018 at 5:21 PM, Chris Lawrence said:

 

The first quote, dignity. There was dignity given back to farmers, but a loathing from the Hi So's. The war on drugs was a divide between right and wrong; some 950 people killed, with 900 killed by police bullets? The trouble in the south; laying a truck load of people face down on top of each other.

 

There was stability with MR T but the armed forces were loosing their grip on their power base.

 

The heavy corruption theory may be true, but whet is it now. Look at the spending now. Mainly to help the Bangkok area; where are the dams?

 

They make a lovely couple, but were their tenures as bad as what is happening now?

It's worse now 

[bangrak]

3 minutes ago, The manic said:

It's worse now 

'Chris Lawrence' and you 'The manic', getting worse? You don't say!

Redpocks, at your age? Accute thaksinitis, with your experience?

Can't be!

Something hard to admit in public then? Feeding on your brains at this stage, maybe?

LOL  

[candide]

46 minutes ago, bangrak said:

Help! Wiki, we're under attack about one of(!) the Master's worst killing sprees...

Ah, 'candide', how old were you when you were still 'candid'? ...Ever.

But I guess this means you do also agree with all what's on your 'new Bible', Wiki, about Siamese/Thai 'H'istory then, is it?

For you, and your quite sharp opinions, this reference does not mean shooting yourself in the foot, but rather like sitting on a live grenade, ...oops!

Wiki is not my Bible. A wikipedia article is not more valid than the sources it cites. In this particular section I did not see anything wrong with the sources, nor have I found other accounts contradicting this one. If you have other sources, I will read them with interest. The tone of this section is also not particularly pro-Thaksin.

As for this particular topic, my opinion has always been that this case should have been subject to an in-depth investigation (as the 2010 killings). Unfortunately it will never happen, and it is surely not because of Thaksin.

[candide]

56 minutes ago, bangrak said:

'...(it just happened that the army shot only red shirts)..., 'candide' writes. May I then politely ask Mr 'candide' who possibly could have killed/shot/hurt/maimed, you name it, those 'few yellow shirts'?

Could Mr 'candide' please 'discriminate', and, honestly, in a genuine way, point a finger at the ones who did harm those 'few yellow shirts'? Honestly, and clearly? Tough question, hmm, 'candide'?

P.S.: Hope you're not versed in old french litterature, as then you would know what character the 'Candide', truly was, ...and probably not have chosen that name. Oh well, maybe you do know the Candide was a despicable hypocrite...

It may have escaped your attention that my aim was not to incriminate anyone (I really don't need to, it has already been done many times), but to account for the fact that more red shirts have been compensated than yellow shirts (one reason given by the Dems in 2012 for complaining).

 

As for my name, it is in reference to Voltaire, as I have been much influenced by the "philosophies does lumières". Actually, I like Diderot too.

Apparently, you read French, so you may know this gem from Diderot:

https://lescoursjulien.com/les-adieux-du-vieillard-supplement-au-voyage-de-bougainville-chapitre-2-diderot-1796-commentaire

[3NUMBAS]

the people love them but the junta does not

[yellowboat]

On 8/12/2018 at 7:02 PM, Father Fintan Stack said:

Thaksin was the best PM Thailand has ever had since 1932 in terms of what he gave to the poorest of the country. 

 

The only PM to serve a full term and the only PM to be elected to serve a second term. 

 

He was incredibly popular. His war on drugs and policies in the Southern provinces which are constantly criticised by posters here were universally popular.

 

These are the facts.

 

The amusing thing for me is most of his most vocal critics weren't here when he was serving as PM nor before when the corruption with Suthep and his Democrat buddies was in full swing.

 

Thaksin also was brilliant with the Western media and no PM before or after has come close to him. 

 

no wonder the inadequates in uniform are terrified of him.

You are correct, but in the end he and his sister failed Thailand, as is the current regime, only they did so far less so.   He and his sister could have been model leaders for the rest of Asia, putting a country, that has had the benefit of peace, where it belonged.  But here we are. 

[pornprong]

On 8/9/2018 at 9:10 PM, Phuket Man said:

Thaksin ? Democracy?  Naaah.

Thaksin, Democracy, Yeah!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2001

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2005

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2006

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2007

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2011

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_general_election,_2014

[scorecard]

20 hours ago, bangrak said:

Stay at home big bear, you haven't f.i. seen what it changed 'on the field', in real daily life, to have a few soldiers going on patrol with the BiBs (Thakky's 'pretorian guard', don't forget that either!)... So, do allow me to disagree with you (nobody outside of you and me will seriously bother a bit about it anyway...), and my guess is most (like a majority?) Thai people prefer the present evil to the worse 'political' ones they knew before. Sad, but quite realistic (on day-to-day base, ...as most Thais live), and it's their country after all, isn't it? 

 

All well said.

 

Plus IMHO the general / his team are likely pushing the election date out again and again, as far as possible, hoping to eventually get to a date, a scenario where the ptp, reds etc., are so disjointed there is totally absolute definitively no chance whatever they can win an election even if they promise 'everybody will be rich in 6 months'. 

 

And when there is an election and if the ptp and reds lose, that perhaps will mean they totally disband and disintegrate, no chance of rebuilding because their paymaster not prepared any longer to throw away money. And when the 'no more funding' is confirmed how many of them will visit him in Singapore, HK, etc? How sad.

 

Also zero chance of amnesty for himself, his sister and perhaps also his son. How sad

 

Perhaps the general sees all of that scenario as his historic contribution to Thailand?

 

 

[candide]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

All well said.

 

Plus IMHO the general / his team are likely pushing the election date out again and again, as far as possible, hoping to eventually get to a date, a scenario where the ptp, reds etc., are so disjointed there is totally absolute definitively no chance whatever they can win an election even if they promise 'everybody will be rich in 6 months'. 

 

And when there is an election and if the ptp and reds lose, that perhaps will mean they totally disband and disintegrate, no chance of rebuilding because their paymaster not prepared any longer to throw away money. And when the 'no more funding' is confirmed how many of them will visit him in Singapore, HK, etc? How sad.

 

Also zero chance of amnesty for himself, his sister and perhaps also his son. How sad

 

Perhaps the general sees all of that scenario as his historic contribution to Thailand?

 

 

Sorry, I don't get the logic of your reply. If it's true that most Thai people prefer the Junta (a statement you approve), why would the Junta need to delay elections for fear the PTP may win it? 

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. 

[scorecard]

40 minutes ago, candide said:

Sorry, I don't get the logic of your reply. If it's true that most Thai people prefer the Junta (a statement you approve), why would the Junta need to delay elections for fear the PTP may win it? 

 

1. Where / when did I make any statement that I approve......? 

 

2. Why would the Junta need to....... No comment needed.....