UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[aright]

6 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

I am not familiar with the Canadian model, maybe good for UK maybe not, dunno.

 

I think that the way Switzerland interacts with EU would be more to UK likings.

 

Norway model?

1) this is nothing for EU and UK to negotiate

    it would require UK becoming member of EFTA

    Iceland might be OK with that. Swizerland? Doubtful.

   Who would want inept shit like the UK government as a party in an international org?

2)

 assuming UK party to EFTA

then next step would be for UK to have a go at entering EEA,

would require ratification  by every single member of EEA

4)

am fairly confident that this way of accessing SM would not be to UK likings

 

 

Typical! You aren't familiar with the Canadian model but like the Swiss model yet want to debate the best course for the UK without knowledge of all the options. Are you having a laugh or a troll?

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, aright said:

Typical! You aren't familiar with the Canadian model but like the Swiss model yet want to debate the best course for the UK without knowledge of all the options. Are you having a laugh or a troll?

 

I am having a Belhaven.

 

there are shops around where you can buy remedies for improving  your obviously failing eye sight

 

I am saying that the EFTA solution (if it would be available at all - I hope not) would not be to UK likings,

would probably frustrate the shit out of UK politicians.

 

I am saying that the Swizz way of doing things would probably suit UK way better.

 

 

[aright]

31 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

I am saying that the Swizz way of doing things would probably suit UK way better.

 

 

And I am saying, how could you possibly know that if you don't know what the Canadian deal is. Do you normally form your opinions when you only have knowledge of half the options?  

People are not only defined by their options but also by their choices ; of course if you don't give yourself all the options...……….

Edited September 6, 2018 by aright

[ivor bigun]

You have been reading the wrong newspapers. Kinnock was originally anti-EU, but by the time he was elected Labour leader he had changed his position. In fact one of his first moves after becoming leader was to re-align the party's stance on the EU following Michael Foot's opposition to it.
He was later appointed as one of the UK's European Commissioners by John Major's Conservative Government. As someone with 25 years experience as an MP, with 9 as leader of a major political party, he would appear to have been an excellent choice. Do you have a problem with that?

Yes,because its twisting the facts

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[aright]

19 hours ago, adammike said:

I have been reading the telegraph on line since it went on line, every day on the front page of the internet and print editions without fail there is at least one article against the EU and or the Euro.Its what they do fact or fiction it all just gets blurred into Brexit cheerleading.The most important thing about the Article is it's filed under opinion.

There is a big difference between reading and understanding. Why bother reading the cheer leading Telegraph......stick to your perceived, honest, factual Guardian. Me? I read all the colors . Its the only way to try and understand the rainbow.

 

Sorry hadn't realized  your links and posts were based on fact. 

[nauseus]

15 hours ago, Stupooey said:

You have been reading the wrong newspapers. Kinnock was originally anti-EU, but by the time he was elected Labour leader he had changed his position. In fact one of his first moves after becoming leader was to re-align the party's stance on the EU following Michael Foot's opposition to it.

He was later appointed as one of the UK's European Commissioners by John Major's Conservative Government. As someone with 25 years experience as an MP, with 9 as leader of a major political party, he would appear to have been an excellent choice. Do you have a problem with that?

He changed his position because, at the time, even he realised that an anti EU stance would ensure him never winning an election (with the Labour Party). But he never won a General Election anyway, because politically, he's a born loser, which seems to be a prerequisite for joining the European Commission. And as VP in the EC the main problem was his expulsion and subsequent hounding of one of the few honest bean-counters the EU has ever had, Maria Andreasen. So problem? For me, definitely.

 

[maxcorrigan]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

He changed his position because, at the time, even he realised that an anti EU stance would ensure him never winning an election (with the Labour Party). But he never won a General Election anyway, because politically, he's a born loser, which seems to be a prerequisite for joining the European Commission. And as VP in the EC the main problem was his expulsion and subsequent hounding of one of the few honest bean-counters the EU has ever had, Maria Andreasen. So problem? For me, definitely.

 

Plus he was up against Thatcher who could and did make mincemeat of him!

[Guest]

But, but.. no deal is no deal

 

 

Quote

 

UK ADMITS possibility of planes being GROUNDED post-Brexit with 27 PACTS planned

THE UK is preparing 27 separate treaties to protect flights if there is a no-deal Brexit scenario, as the Government admits there is a possibility planes will not be able to take off and land in the UK if it crashes out of the EU.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1014112/brexit-news-uk-eu-no-deal-planes-grounded-chris-grayling

 

 

[Stupooey]

15 minutes ago, maxcorrigan said:

Plus he was up against Thatcher who could and did make mincemeat of him!

Is this the same Thatcher who stated that a referendum is "a device of dictators and demagogues"?

[dick dasterdly]

25 minutes ago, oilinki said:

But, but.. no deal is no deal

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1014112/brexit-news-uk-eu-no-deal-planes-grounded-chris-grayling

 

 

Oh good, we're back to the story (which nobody believed in the first place....) that in the event of a 'no deal scenario' - planes will be grounded/unable to leave or arrive from the eu'  ?......

 

Of course there's always a miniscule (to the 'n'th degree!) possibility ? - but nobody actually believes it (with the possible exception of yourself...), as it would cause too many problems for not only uk 'important' business people/politicians, but also their eu equivalents.

Edited September 7, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Oh good, we're back to the story (which nobody believed in the first place....) that in the event of a 'no deal scenario' - planes will be grounded/unable to leave or arrive from the eu'  ?......

 

Of course there's always a miniscule (to the 'n'th degree!) possibility ? - but nobody actually believes it (with the possible exception of yourself...), as it would cause too many problems for not only uk 'important' business people/politicians, but also their eu equivalents.

This is just an example of agreements which must be negotiated between the two parties. Therefore Brexit can never be "We'll just walk away" deal. 

 

Now, who has the upper hand on these negotiations? UK or EU?

[transam]

2 minutes ago, oilinki said:

This is just an example of agreements which must be negotiated between the two parties. Therefore Brexit can never be "We'll just walk away" deal. 

 

Now, who has the upper hand on these negotiations? UK or EU?

Dunno yet....Wait and see eh..

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, oilinki said:

This is just an example of agreements which must be negotiated between the two parties. Therefore Brexit can never be "We'll just walk away" deal. 

 

Now, who has the upper hand on these negotiations? UK or EU?

In my honest opinion?  Neither.

 

Edit - I think this as the eu consists of many countries that need to trade with the uk as much as the uk needs to trade with those individual eu countries.

 

Both sides have too much to lose in the event of 'no deal', which is why I agree with other posters that a reasonable deal (for both sides) will be agreed at the last minute.

 

Of course this is just my opinion, but I gather you've backed away from the daily express claim you posted - stating that 'planes will be grounded in the event of 'no deal'?

Edited September 7, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[adammike]

2 hours ago, aright said:

There is a big difference between reading and understanding. Why bother reading the cheer leading Telegraph......stick to your perceived, honest, factual Guardian. Me? I read all the colors . Its the only way to try and understand the rainbow.

 

Sorry hadn't realized  your links and posts were based on fact. 

Have I posted links?

[whatsupdoc]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Of course this is just my opinion, but I gather you've backed away from the daily express claim you posted - stating that 'planes will be grounded in the event of 'no deal'?

Read again. It talked about the possibility.

[dunroaming]

And todays word of choice is "Yellowhammer".  Which is apparently a proposal of what action the government would take in the case of a no deal scenario.

 

Maybe tomorrows word of choice would be "Brown (as in trouser) Booby" followed  at some stage, if Boris makes a challenge, by "Great Tit".

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, oilinki said:

But, but.. no deal is no deal

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1014112/brexit-news-uk-eu-no-deal-planes-grounded-chris-grayling

 

 

 

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Oh good, we're back to the story (which nobody believed in the first place....) that in the event of a 'no deal scenario' - planes will be grounded/unable to leave or arrive from the eu'  ?......

 

Of course there's always a miniscule (to the 'n'th degree!) possibility ? - but nobody actually believes it (with the possible exception of yourself...), as it would cause too many problems for not only uk 'important' business people/politicians, but also their eu equivalents.

 

31 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Read again. It talked about the possibility.

Determined not to be rude or insulting - who on earth believes that "possibility" - and so why is that "possibility" being posted yet again??

 

I repeat - NOBODY (as far as I know) believes that there is any REAL possibility of this happening - and yet it has been posted yet again.

 

Oilinki hasn't responded that he believes it could actually happen, and neither has any other poster.....

 

Sorry, I get a bit bad-tempered when clear scare tactics are posted again and again - even when those supporting remain know it will never happen, but think the scare tactic helps 'the cause'....

[SheungWan]

24 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Determined not to be rude or insulting - who on earth believes that "possibility" - and so why is that "possibility" being posted yet again??

I repeat - NOBODY (as far as I know) believes that there is any REAL possibility of this happening - and yet it has been posted yet again.

Oilinki hasn't responded that he believes it could actually happen, and neither has any other poster.....

Sorry, I get a bit bad-tempered when clear scare tactics are posted again and again - even when those supporting remain know it will never happen, but think the scare tactic helps 'the cause'....

Your temper is of little concern. The way the markets assess things is not a binary yes/no, but a risk factor of something occurring. Another referendum? Low but not zero. The problem is that it depends on too many variables, the first being Hard Brexiteers effectively bringing down the government on a crash and burn mission and the second Labour MPs pushing aside Corbyn. Odds? Probably <5%. The funny thing is the forum Hard Brexiteers heads in the sand where they are heading and the other is the Remainers in favour of a new referendum pretending that Corbyn is not standing in the middle of the road blocking them if the opportunity arises.

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, oilinki said:

But, but.. no deal is no deal

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1014112/brexit-news-uk-eu-no-deal-planes-grounded-chris-grayling

 

 

 

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Oh good, we're back to the story (which nobody believed in the first place....) that in the event of a 'no deal scenario' - planes will be grounded/unable to leave or arrive from the eu'  ?......

 

Of course there's always a miniscule (to the 'n'th degree!) possibility ? - but nobody actually believes it (with the possible exception of yourself...), as it would cause too many problems for not only uk 'important' business people/politicians, but also their eu equivalents.

 

55 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

Determined not to be rude or insulting - who on earth believes that "possibility" - and so why is that "possibility" being posted yet again??

 

I repeat - NOBODY (as far as I know) believes that there is any REAL possibility of this happening - and yet it has been posted yet again.

 

Oilinki hasn't responded that he believes it could actually happen, and neither has any other poster.....

 

Sorry, I get a bit bad-tempered when clear scare tactics are posted again and again - even when those supporting remain know it will never happen, but think the scare tactic helps 'the cause'....

 

20 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Your temper is of little concern. The way the markets assess things is not a binary yes/no, but a risk factor of something occurring. Another referendum? Low but not zero. The problem is that it depends on too many variables, the first being Hard Brexiteers effectively bringing down the government on a crash and burn mission and the second Labour MPs pushing aside Corbyn. Odds? Probably <5%. The funny thing is the forum Hard Brexiteers heads in the sand where they are heading and the other is the Remainers in favour of a new referendum pretending that Corbyn is not standing in the middle of the road blocking them if the opportunity arises.

It comes as no suprise that you're deliberately (like oilinki....) missing the point of what we were discussing....

 

Do you think uk airports will be grounded in the event of 'no deal' brexit?

Edited September 7, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[SheungWan]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

It comes as no suprise that you're deliberately (like oilinki) missing the point of the 'argument'....

Do you think uk airports will be grounded in the event of 'no deal'?

I will be in Thailand end of March so I don't really care if the whole of the UK grinds to a halt. I will worry about the future availability of Italian Gruyere though when I am next in town post B-Day.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, SheungWan said:

I will be in Thailand end of March so I don't really care if the whole of the UK grinds to a halt. I will worry about the future availability of Italian Gruyere though when I am next in town post B-Day.

In other words, you're not prepared to admit that you don't believe for one second that uk airports will be grounded in the event of 'no deal'.

 

Don't worry, you're not alone.  Even though the odd remainer likes to keep posting this scare tactic - not one has admitted that they think it will happen.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, oilinki said:

But, but.. no deal is no deal

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1014112/brexit-news-uk-eu-no-deal-planes-grounded-chris-grayling

 

 

 

That would surely also apply to ANY airline using UK airspace which would apply to any EU airline.

[whatsupdoc]

13 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

In other words, you're not prepared to admit that you don't believe for one second that uk airports will be grounded in the event of 'no deal'.

 

Don't worry, you're not alone.  Even though the odd remainer likes to keep posting this scare tactic - not one has admitted that they think it will happen.

The grounding of airplanes is the default situation if nobody acts to prevent it.

So will it happen? Unlikely. Could it happen? Certainly.

 

But it will be a different situation at Dover. In my opinion chaos there (in the case of no deal) is very likely.

[dick dasterdly]

37 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

 

It comes as no suprise that you're deliberately (like oilinki....) missing the point of what we were discussing....

 

Do you think uk airports will be grounded in the event of 'no deal' brexit?

 

5 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

The grounding of airplanes is the default situation if nobody acts to prevent it.

So will it happen? Unlikely. Could it happen? Certainly.

 

But it will be a different situation at Dover. In my opinion chaos there (in the case of no deal) is very likely.

I understand your position entirely - it's always a good idea to deflect when nobody is prepared to defend the "possibility" raised by oilinki's post...

 

But perhaps I'm wrong, and you think 'planes will be 'grounded' (plus no flights in to the uk either) in the event of 'no deal'?

Edited September 7, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[SheungWan]

30 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

In other words, you're not prepared to admit that you don't believe for one second that uk airports will be grounded in the event of 'no deal'.

Don't worry, you're not alone.  Even though the odd remainer likes to keep posting this scare tactic - not one has admitted that they think it will happen.

I am more focussed on the Ireland mess in the event of a no-deal. But hey, keep paddling in whatever pool keeps you happy. (I forget, Hard Brexiteers don't do happy, even the ones who pretended they were fence sitters)

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

That would surely also apply to ANY airline using UK airspace which would apply to any EU airline.

Yes, but that's irrelevant to those doing their best to spread these fear tactics....

 

Of course I could be being unfair, and there is someone out there that believes that it will happen?

 

We've had (short ?) discussions on this time and time again - and not one person (that I've seen) believes that it will happen.

 

And yet the odd poster still insists on dragging it up as a 'point supporting their cause'.  Entirely oblivious to the fact that nobody believes it - and it's one of the best examples of 'project fear'!

[nauseus]

50 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

I will be in Thailand end of March so I don't really care if the whole of the UK grinds to a halt. I will worry about the future availability of Italian Gruyere though when I am next in town post B-Day.

Your gruyere is of little concern. 

[SheungWan]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Your gruyere is of little concern. 

I guess all the Hard Brexiteers are individually wrapped Kraft Cheese Slices type of guys.

Edited September 7, 2018 by SheungWan

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, SheungWan said:

I am more focussed on the Ireland mess in the event of a no-deal. But hey, keep paddling in whatever pool keeps you happy. (I forget, Hard Brexiteers don't do happy, even the ones who pretended they were fence sitters)

None of this makes me "happy".

 

We're reliant on politicians (which is never a good start....), and the fall of sterling affects me badly.

 

I used to be (and to a certain extent, still am) a "fence sitter" - as I trust the uk govt. even less than the eu govt. ☹️ - but I'm coming to the conclusion that a 'hard brexit' is the only option as the eu has made no attempt to negotiate, and the uk govt. (IMO) is desperately trying to come up with something that won't result in the majority of MPs losing their seats.....

[Jim1000]

Wish I could afford to go down to the pub and listen to all the for and against ( endless ) arguments , like  in the

good old days .