UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Stupooey]

23 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Yes I think its called rent a mob  Interesting that no-one can provide a number on the eligible voters that took part in the march 

"Rent-a-mob" would imply people were being paid to march, although there is no evidence to support this; in fact the opposite was true, people from Leeds, for example, were being asked to pay £20-27 for coach transport. Unless marchers were being shipped in from overseas I would have expected the vast majority to be eligible voters, although pictures did show a few who were clearly too young. New voters since 2016 were brought to the fore: it seems wrong that many who will be as much as 19 years old by the time Brexit is due to happen will not have had an opportunity to effectively determine their futures.

[Guest]

Back to the Empire!

 

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Stupooey said:

No real surprise there. It is much easier to mobilise people to take action to change the status quo, as opposed to maintaining it. That is why the Referendum result in all probability failed to represent the opinion of the electorate as a whole.

What it DID represent was the number of voters who cared enough to get off their arrsse and vote. So IMHO it did represent the opinion of the electorate as a whole.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Yes I think its called rent a mob  Interesting that no-one can provide a number on the eligible voters that took part in the march 

Not sure how they manage to differentiate between the protesters from the shoppers, workers, sports fans and Russian secret agents either! 

[aright]

[Guest]

Apparently there was also a well protected Brexiters march as well.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Apparently there was also a well protected Brexiters march as well.

Must be at least 400,000 in there! No poodles either.

Edited October 21, 2018 by nauseus

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Apparently there was also a well protected Brexiters march as well.

Fake news nothing to do with Brexit and no link I wonder why

[nauseus]

Just now, vinny41 said:

Fake news nothing to do with Brexit and no link I wonder why

No linki.....no likey

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No linki.....no likey

Here the missing link for the photo it was a march in  Manchester 2015 Before Brexit

The security for a 2015 EDL demo in the city which attracted 400 of their supporters cost about £250,000.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/there-been-more-members-sugarbabes-15306865

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Here the missing link for the photo it was a march in  Manchester 2015 Before Brexit

The security for a 2015 EDL demo in the city which attracted 400 of their supporters cost about £250,000.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/there-been-more-members-sugarbabes-15306865

Bravo, Clouseau.

Edited October 21, 2018 by nauseus

[Orac]

Here the missing link for the photo it was a march in  Manchester 2015 Before Brexit
The security for a 2015 EDL demo in the city which attracted 400 of their supporters cost about £250,000.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/there-been-more-members-sugarbabes-15306865

It was yesterday in Manchester.


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[mommysboy]

29 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Fake news nothing to do with Brexit and no link I wonder why

It was a joke, Shirlock!

[Patriot1066]

10 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

I can't agree Tebee. I seem to be one of the few non-aligned posters on this thread, perhaps the only one. And from the very beginning it has been clear that the distortions and unsubstantiated claims (and insults) are greater on the leave than the remain side (especially the insults).

 

The EU is a protectionist cartel, increasingly encroaching on national sovereignties. No one can seriously doubt this. I have linked many articles from respected sources to support this point of view. Your opinion is your own of course, but your claim that views that differ from yours are unsubstantiated is simply not true.

 

By the way, there is a simple workable strategy outside of the EU - Free Trade. My response to your link to the Government's economic forecast makes that clear. And the EU's intransigence on the "backstop" is pushing us faster in that direction, via "no deal".

 

Of course, there is dogma and ideology on both sides, the EU's being neo-liberal economic policy and ever-closer union; that's why Blair loves it so much. And look where neo-liberalism has got us in the last 10 years: the international financial disaster, austerity, 60% youth unemployment in some EU countries, crisis in the Eurozone, to name just a few.

The EU is indeed neo liberal and life on the outside will be better than shackled to its yoke. As for Blair has he not been arrested for war crimes yet? I guess that also sums up the company the EU like to keep.

 

in fact there is a very respected Oxford study that shows GDP will be down 4% (Over 10 years) if we go WTO rules seems like a bargain as we will import cheaper food and get about 10 billion back in EU tattoos for their cars.

 

So in real terms outside looks much better ????

[whatsupdoc]

6 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

The EU is indeed neo liberal and life on the outside will be better than shackled to its yoke. As for Blair has he not been arrested for war crimes yet? I guess that also sums up the company the EU like to keep.

 

in fact there is a very respected Oxford study that shows GDP will be down 4% (Over 10 years) if we go WTO rules seems like a bargain as we will import cheaper food and get about 10 billion back in EU tattoos for their cars.

 

So in real terms outside looks much better ????

You claim the EU is neoliberal, but what is the sovereign UK going to be after Brexit? And are you sure food imports are going to be cheaper (while maintaining quality)?  Finally, what the .... are EU tattoos and what do they have to do with cars???

[7by7]

23 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

I am not a Brexiter. I am just someone who supports democratic decisions. And by the way, the comment that you are objecting to is from The Guardian, not my own. Perhaps you'd like the full version: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/19/peoples-vote-march-eu-referendum-brexit

 

The Notting Hill carnival has around four times as many attendees.

 

 

 Democratic decisions can be changed, and often are. That's how democracy works. Particularly if the original decision was based on a false premise.

 

The source of the comment is irrelevant.

 

What has attendance at a three day festival of music, eating and drinking etc. got to do with a political demonstration? Glastonbury has many more attendees than this demonstration as well, and is equally irrelevant.

[Patriot1066]

4 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

You claim the EU is neoliberal, but what is the sovereign UK going to be after Brexit? 

And are you sure food imports are going to be cheaper (while maintaining quality)?

Finally, what the .... are EU tattoos and what do they have to do with cars???

Very very very far right I hope!! I want my country back, and we will get it believe me.

 

How and why will we be reducing food quality and dont quote the old chlorinated chicken line, I've eaten lots of US food and it tastes great.

 

I didnt notice tattoos the stupid EU spell checker a tad careless of me but it replaced it instead of tariffs, which we will make loads of money out of.

 

and did the EU protect us with the dodgy donkey and horse meat scandal it originated in the EU. Or protect us from the evil German car manufacturers who lied so we have been poisoning our kids in their suposidly clean diesel cars? The answer is no they didn't. So bring on some American chicken, and some of their great cars and bikes. So we can ditch the EU and make Britain Great again. Just like mr Trump is doing in America. 

[Patriot1066]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Democratic decisions can be changed, and often are. That's how democracy works. Particularly if the original decision was based on a false premise.

 

The source of the comment is irrelevant.

 

What has attendance at a three day festival of music, eating and drinking etc. got to do with a political demonstration? Glastonbury has many more attendees than this demonstration as well, and is equally irrelevant.

Actually the EU has its of form on multiple votes until,the country get to the "correct democratic vote"

[kwilco]

"Brexiteer on a plane"

 

Brexiteers, this is what you voted for...........

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/daughter-of-ryanair-racist-abuse-victim-speaks-out-following-on-flight-attack_uk_5bcb4379e4b055bc94811e92?ncid=other_facebook_eucluwzme5k&utm_campaign=share_facebook

 

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, Patriot1066 said:

and did the EU protect us with the dodgy donkey and horse meat scandal

Yes they discovered and exposed it .... won't happen without the EU agencies

[kwilco]

Yet another example of the thinking behind Brexitism ...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=349654695796306&id=164665060214766&_rdr

 

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

"Brexiteer on a plane"

 

Brexiteers, this is what you voted for...........

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/daughter-of-ryanair-racist-abuse-victim-speaks-out-following-on-flight-attack_uk_5bcb4379e4b055bc94811e92?ncid=other_facebook_eucluwzme5k&utm_campaign=share_facebook

 

How do you know he is a Brexiteer or is it more fake news from the remoaners on this forum

[brucec64]

Very very very far right I hope!! I want my country back, and we will get it believe me.
 
How and why will we be reducing food quality and dont quote the old chlorinated chicken line, I've eaten lots of US food and it tastes great.
 
I didnt notice tattoos the stupid EU spell checker a tad careless of me but it replaced it instead of tariffs, which we will make loads of money out of.
 
and did the EU protect us with the dodgy donkey and horse meat scandal it originated in the EU. Or protect us from the evil German car manufacturers who lied so we have been poisoning our kids in their suposidly clean diesel cars? The answer is no they didn't. So bring on some American chicken, and some of their great cars and bikes. So we can ditch the EU and make Britain Great again. Just like mr Trump is doing in America. 

who exactly do you think ends up paying the tariffs? Ill give you a hint - not the EU car manufacturers.

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[tebee]

The German view of us - Brexit is making us an international laughing stock  

 

Brexit Negotiations
Watching a Country Make a Fool of Itself

 

No country in the world has cultivated arrogance the way Britain has. But the sad truth is: The former global power can't even find its way to the door without tripping over its feet.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-talks-watching-a-country-make-a-fool-of-itself-a-1234143.html

[melvinmelvin]

20 minutes ago, tebee said:

The German view of us - Brexit is making us an international laughing stock  

 

Brexit Negotiations
Watching a Country Make a Fool of Itself

 

No country in the world has cultivated arrogance the way Britain has. But the sad truth is: The former global power can't even find its way to the door without tripping over its feet.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-talks-watching-a-country-make-a-fool-of-itself-a-1234143.html

or maybe a

View of UK which is shared by Germany as well.

 

laughing stock and fool, dunno, think the worst bit is that

UK has made it rather crystal clear that the political leadership has no cohesion, cannot work together is not trustworthy

[rixalex]

 Democratic decisions can be changed, and often are. That's how democracy works. Particularly if the original decision was based on a false premise.
 
The source of the comment is irrelevant.
 
What has attendance at a three day festival of music, eating and drinking etc. got to do with a political demonstration? Glastonbury has many more attendees than this demonstration as well, and is equally irrelevant.

Democratic decisions can indeed be changed but that's not what we are talking about here. We are talking about a democratic process in which the whole voting population was involved, being ignored. That's something quite different. When has that ever happened before in Britain?



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[tebee]

16 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

or maybe a

View of UK which is shared by Germany as well.

 

laughing stock and fool, dunno, think the worst bit is that

UK has made it rather crystal clear that the political leadership has no cohesion, cannot work together is not trustworthy

For anyone worried that abandoning Brexit would be a national humiliation, I'm sorry to tell you that that ship has already sailed. The rest of the world looks on horrified and bemused by this pointless act of self-immolation. 

 

Abandoning it is a chance to rescue (some) respect.

 

It won't be immediate. It'll take some time. There's a lot of damage to repair with our relations with our neighbours, allies and friends, and maybe yet more to repair to our reputation and brand.

 

I can remember a time, not very long ago at all, that Minis with Union Flag roofs and wing mirrors were all the rage in Brussels, Paris, and Amsterdam. The self-consciously chic Bruxellois loved their M&S tote bags with the flag and 'London' on them.

 

People loved the idea of living in London one day. The cool Britannia brand was a real thing, with a long and deeply embedded legacy.

 

Not now. Mention the UK, and people shake their heads. "Quell Dommage," they say, sadly, in Brussels. "Why are you doing this? How did this happen?"

 

Pressing ahead regardless of the obvious insanity just embeds this.

Abandon it, and the world will say "They looked like they'd lost it for a while, those Brits, but they look like they're trying to rescue it."

[vogie]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

The German view of us - Brexit is making us an international laughing stock  

 

Brexit Negotiations
Watching a Country Make a Fool of Itself

 

No country in the world has cultivated arrogance the way Britain has. But the sad truth is: The former global power can't even find its way to the door without tripping over its feet.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-talks-watching-a-country-make-a-fool-of-itself-a-1234143.html

In two years tebee or however long you have been posting I cannot remember you saying one good thing about the UK, you seem to take great pleasure in decrying your country of birth. If I was from the european mainland and read your posts (and some of the other posters), I too would be wondering why Brits havn't one good word to say about our country. It is disgracefull how you have no respect for the UK. Your constant negativity is totally boring.

Having said all that I cannot remember one occasion where Mrs May needs help to stand up unlike her counterpart, the head of the EU, now that is embarrassing. 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

"Brexiteer on a plane"

 

Brexiteers, this is what you voted for...........

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/daughter-of-ryanair-racist-abuse-victim-speaks-out-following-on-flight-attack_uk_5bcb4379e4b055bc94811e92?ncid=other_facebook_eucluwzme5k&utm_campaign=share_facebook

 

Looks like he was determined to remain to me.

[whatsupdoc]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

In two years tebee or however long you have been posting I cannot remember you saying one good thing about the UK, you seem to take great pleasure in decrying your country of birth. If I was from the european mainland and read your posts (and some of the other posters), I too would be wondering why Brits havn't one good word to say about our country. It is disgracefull how you have no respect for the UK. Your constant negativity is totally boring.

Having said all that I cannot remember one occasion where Mrs May needs help to stand up unlike her counterpart, the head of the EU, now that is embarrassing. 

As a European mainlander I can assure you that most on this side of the channel see Brexit as a complete folly and yes, the UK is an international laughing stock because of how they handle it.

With regard to embarrassing politicians, look no further than Boris Johnson, David Davis, Raab...... and May's dances do not really help as well.