UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, nauseus said:

And whether you, or the other remainers, like it or not the UK Parliament gave the say to the British people.

 

The result of the referendum is "constitutionally and morally binding" said Rees-Mogg ages ago and I think that he's right. This is why it has been acted upon and why the majority of MPs are so scared to defy it. 

That's a good one, Rees-Mogg and 'morally binding', keep them coming.

[sandyf]

On 10/9/2018 at 5:55 PM, My Thai Life said:

As for people crossing the border, which was the main part of your original post, nothing is going to change: Ireland and the UK have had a Common Travel Area since 1922, and Ireland is in Schengen. These provisions will continue after Brexit (as I've already mentioned three times). Irish and British citizens will continue to have freedom to travel throughout the CTA. 

 

The Irish border is one of the key discussion points over the next 10 days, so I would hang fire until we see the next set of proposals. However, the points I have highighted above will not change.

But, Dr Hayward told the all-party Brexit committee: “If the UK is saying it is not enforcing a border at this point, there is a risk of smuggling of dangerous goods into the UK through its open borders.”

And, asked if governments could allow that situation to continue for “years”, she replied: “It’s not their choice to say whether they are going to enforce the border or not - they would be obliged to do so under international law.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-irish-border-theresa-may-eu-no-deal-ireland-dublin-politics-conservative-a8599011.html

[My Thai Life]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

But, Dr Hayward told the all-party Brexit committee: “If the UK is saying it is not enforcing a border at this point, there is a risk of smuggling of dangerous goods into the UK through its open borders.”

Thanks for your reply Sandy.

 

Dr Hayward's point as quoted doesn't seem to make any sense: what kind of smuggling is she worried about that isn't already happening? Is she implying that there's smuggling of dangerous goods taking place now that is undetected? Or is she saying we need a hard border to control a sudden increase in the smuggling of dangerous goods? If the latter, why does she think there will be a sudden increase after 29th March 2019?

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

In your own words "You see I am a social democrat and appreciate civil society and social justice. You know, civilisation."

Strange that if you are all on the above what are you doing in Thailand

I suggest you might want to look at Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland and to some degree Germany for all of the above

How right you are 

 

I only came here to marry a beautiful woman 24 years younger than me. Not one of my better ideas

 

I have lived and worked in both Denmark and Germany and I will certainly retire to Denmark.

 

I got a passport already and was there in the Summer

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

And you can provide a link to confirm that or is it pure bull 

Pure Bull

 

But it's a reasonable assumption given that roughly half the country wish to remain.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

How right you are 

 

I only came here to marry a beautiful woman 24 years younger than me. Not one of my better ideas

 

I have lived and worked in both Denmark and Germany and I will certainly retire to Denmark.

 

I got a passport already and was there in the Summer

And there we have it...You are not the slightest bit interested in the UK, just spouting crap as you are not interested in the UK, all you are interested in is YOU living in an EU country well away from the UK with the UK handouts...

[Grouse]

58 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Thanks for your reply Sandy.

 

Dr Hayward's point as quoted doesn't seem to make any sense: what kind of smuggling is she worried about that isn't already happening? Is she implying that there's smuggling of dangerous goods taking place now that is undetected? Or is she saying we need a hard border to control a sudden increase in the smuggling of dangerous goods? If the latter, why does she think there will be a sudden increase after 29th March 2019?

 

Armalite AR-180s?

[Grouse]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

And there we have it...You are not the slightest bit interested in the UK, just spouting crap as you are not interested in the UK, all you are interested in is YOU living in an EU country well away from the UK with the UK handouts...

I don't get U.K. Handouts

 

I have family including grandchildren in the UK

 

I also have a property in Endinburgh

 

My Thai daughter is off to the University of York.

 

No, I'm not a Brexiter; I consider the wellbeing of others.

 

I'm sorry that you feel my contributions are crap. We differ in opinion for sure but no need to be discourteous. I expect better from one of TVs leading posters.

 

For info I have just exceeded 10,000 posts of crap!

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I don't get U.K. Handouts

 

I have family including grandchildren in the UK

 

I also have a property in Endinburgh

 

My Thai daughter is off to the University of York.

 

No, I'm not a Brexiter; I consider the wellbeing of others.

 

I'm sorry that you feel my contributions are crap. We differ in opinion for sure but no need to be discourteous. I expect better from one of TVs leading posters.

 

For info I have just exceeded 10,000 posts of crap!

Now YOU have twisted my post to fit YOUR EU agenda, not YOUR UK agenda...

 

Plain as day........

[roo860]

 
For info I have just exceeded 10,000 posts of crap!

Keep going you'll soon get to 6 figures.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[mommysboy]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

A dream shared by 3.8 million EI citizens living in the UK, its strange the Great EU the land of honey and milk and Project Fear isn't able to persuade them to upsticks and return for some reason they prefer living in the UK 

Now, yes, but we're talking about the future.  What happens after Brexit?

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Interesting let see who their directors are 

Joseph Carberry, Trevor Phillips, Richard Reed, Lord Peter Mandelson, Roland Rudd, June Sarpong, William Straw, Daniel Gieve, Sir Michael Rake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Britain

 

Oh dear looks like your screwed with Mandy and Rudd on board starters for 10 who is Roland Rudd sister Amber Rudd

	2]

The quotes!

 

This is the primary leave site:

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal.html

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The EU doesn’t have to persuade anyone to return. The majority of UK wants to stay in the EU. They are  being forced against their will to leave by undemocratic Brexiteers and their accomplices in politics who deny them a referendum based on the truth and facts and rather go ahead implementing a referendum result that was based on lying to the people. That’s true totalitarianism. 

 

What will happen is easy to predict:

 

Every politician who isn’t completely out of his mind understands by now that campaigning to remain in or rejoin the EU will be a guaranteed victory in the next elections. That means either existing politicians and parties would have to turnaround 180 degrees and stop their “respect the referendum result” nonsense (which in fact means to ignore the people and implement the will of a radical minority). Or we might see new politicians or even a new party emerge who will leverage this opportunity. 

 

Either way, the UK will remain or rejoin the EU, then obviously on different terms and in an even closer membership than before. We might even see the Euro in the Uk. 

 

This will be good for everyone obviously. Only the grumpy old men somewhere in Whatsoeverbury and Pattaya will keep raging but eventually  will have died. In the end, we will have to say thank you to Boris & Co for bringing the EU and the UK and the EU itself closer together than before. 

 

Wow, this one just beggars belief.

[tebee]

 

We are nowhere near ready if we have no deal

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

If you believe they will completely abandon their GE manifesto then what is that you fear?  The unknown?

Did I say fear?

[My Thai Life]

27 minutes ago, tebee said:

We are nowhere near ready if we have no deal

Because the serious planning for no deal hasn't started. A couple of days ago May or Raab was reported a saying it would start in November.

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I don't get U.K. Handouts

 

I have family including grandchildren in the UK

 

I also have a property in Endinburgh

 

My Thai daughter is off to the University of York.

 

No, I'm not a Brexiter; I consider the wellbeing of others.

 

I'm sorry that you feel my contributions are crap. We differ in opinion for sure but no need to be discourteous. I expect better from one of TVs leading posters.

 

For info I have just exceeded 10,000 posts of crap!

The last comment is fair enough. ????

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Now YOU have twisted my post to fit YOUR EU agenda, not YOUR UK agenda...

 

Plain as day........

You'll need to explain your point

 

You originally complained that I had no interest in the UK

 

I rebutted that

 

Please enlighten me; courteously....

[transam]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

You'll need to explain your point

 

You originally complained that I had no interest in the UK

 

I rebutted that

 

Please enlighten me; courteously....

YOU have set/planned your future life up in another EU country and well before Brexit.  Yet you keep going on and on about those here who are for Brexit, but it was great you posted your Danish stuff....

[My Thai Life]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

2 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Thanks for your reply Sandy.

 

Dr Hayward's point as quoted doesn't seem to make any sense: what kind of smuggling is she worried about that isn't already happening? Is she implying that there's smuggling of dangerous goods taking place now that is undetected? Or is she saying we need a hard border to control a sudden increase in the smuggling of dangerous goods? If the latter, why does she think there will be a sudden increase after 29th March 2019?

 

Armalite AR-180s?

Well as usual you haven't adressed the question. I guess you are just trying to make your 10,001st "crap" (your words) post.

If Armalites are so desirable north of the "border" there would surely be a smuggling operation already.

 

[tebee]

35 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Because the serious planning for no deal hasn't started. A couple of days ago May or Raab was reported a saying it would start in November.

 

But it's happening in 5 months !

 

Some things , like computer systems take years to develop.

 

So either the gov is totally incompetent, and we are going to have chaos, or they know something we don't - maybe they have all the while intended to withdraw art 50 at the last moment.   

[dick dasterdly]

6 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The EU doesn’t have to persuade anyone to return. The majority of UK wants to stay in the EU. They are  being forced against their will to leave by undemocratic Brexiteers and their accomplices in politics who deny them a referendum based on the truth and facts and rather go ahead implementing a referendum result that was based on lying to the people. That’s true totalitarianism. 

 

What will happen is easy to predict:

 

Every politician who isn’t completely out of his mind understands by now that campaigning to remain in or rejoin the EU will be a guaranteed victory in the next elections. That means either existing politicians and parties would have to turnaround 180 degrees and stop their “respect the referendum result” nonsense (which in fact means to ignore the people and implement the will of a radical minority). Or we might see new politicians or even a new party emerge who will leverage this opportunity. 

 

Either way, the UK will remain or rejoin the EU, then obviously on different terms and in an even closer membership than before. We might even see the Euro in the Uk. 

 

This will be good for everyone obviously. Only the grumpy old men somewhere in Whatsoeverbury and Pattaya will keep raging but eventually  will have died. In the end, we will have to say thank you to Boris & Co for bringing the EU and the UK and the EU itself closer together than before. 

 

1 hour ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

Wow, this one just beggars belief.

But to look on the bright side - it gave many of us a good laugh! ????

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

Because the serious planning for no deal hasn't started. A couple of days ago May or Raab was reported a saying it would start in November.

 

 

21 minutes ago, tebee said:

But it's happening in 5 months !

 

Some things , like computer systems take years to develop.

 

So either the gov is totally incompetent, and we are going to have chaos, or they know something we don't - maybe they have all the while intended to withdraw art 50 at the last moment.   

Of course there's another alternative - the govt. has never had any intention of genuinely leaving the eu....

 

This has been made even more clear if MTL is correct in saying that May or Raab have said that 'serious planning will start in November'.....

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Of course there's another alternative - the govt. has never had any intention of genuinely leaving the eu....

 

This has been made even more clear if MTL is correct in saying that May or Raab have said that 'serious planning will start in November'.....

That's for the Christmas Party.

[My Thai Life]

30 minutes ago, tebee said:

But it's happening in 5 months !

 

Some things , like computer systems take years to develop.

 

So either the gov is totally incompetent, and we are going to have chaos, or they know something we don't - maybe they have all the while intended to withdraw art 50 at the last moment.  

Well, "no deal" isn't certain. And yes of course, computer systems can take years to develop and/or implement. However, those 12 systems are already in development. Here's a direct quote from the relevant NAO report which I read this morning, the underlining is mine:

 

"3 If a ‘deal’ is reached there would – based on a draft withdrawal agreement published earlier this year – be a transition or implementation period until the end of 2020. Although the UK will have left the EU, in practice most EU law would continue to apply in the UK and many of the practical day-to-day arrangements between the UK and the EU would remain unchanged until after December 2020.

4 If there is ‘no deal’ then there would be no implementation period, with a sudden change in the UK-EU relationship. This would have implications for the movement of goods, people, services, and areas of cooperation such as data-sharing and security. The precise impact would depend on whether the UK and EU could quickly reach agreements on issues such as travel, data-sharing and customs arrangements before March 2019."

 

I can't agree with your conclusion: all of your thinking seems to lead either to A50 cancellation (which you and I have already discussed) or 2nd referendum (which you and I have already discussed).

 

 

[transam]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

That's for the Christmas Party.

Hmmmm, no bacon rashers on the Turkey eh....????

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Hmmmm, no bacon rashers on the Turkey eh....????

The Brussels sprouts might not be included either.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

Wow, this one just beggars belief.

Keep believing what you want to believe, whether it’s 350m for the NHS, easiest deal of history, or that my prediction is wrong. Eventually,  this belief will burst too and you will have to return back from lala land into reality, as you did so many times already. (Of course, i don’t expect that you’ll remember my post then, you’ll just keep denying everything as you’re used to as a Brexiteer.)

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

10 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Keep believing what you want to believe, whether it’s 350m for the NHS, easiest deal of history, or that my prediction is wrong. Eventually,  this belief will burst too and you will have to return back from lala land into reality, as you did so many times already. (Of course, i don’t expect that you’ll remember my post then, you’ll just keep denying everything as you’re used to as a Brexiteer.)

 

 

 

Yeh, at least he's good for a laugh...if nothing else. ????

 

[My Thai Life]

 

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Of course there's another alternative - the govt. has never had any intention of genuinely leaving the eu....

 

This has been made even more clear if MTL is correct in saying that May or Raab have said that 'serious planning will start in November'.....

I guess it depends on the meaning of "serious". Some of these computer systems are already in operation (these need a capacity upgrade), some have been in development since prior to the referendum. Our non EU trade requires customs systems, and naturally these are already in place and operational.

 

I think it was Raab who made the statement, but politicans have been known to say things for effect! The National Audit Office has been reviewing the systems readiness for a while - it's part of their Audit remit of course; last June they reported that the core Customs Declaration Service (CDS) would be ready by March 2019.

 

I don't believe May has been planning not to leave (I have no evidence for this, other than her "statements"), and her actions show clearly that she is pursuing something, but nobody seems to know what: some bizarre combination of leaving and staying it seems.