UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[tebee]

 

Well it seems we've been presented with incontrovertible  evidence of the UK's one remaining core competence. The art of no deal. No to Europe, No to immigrants, (inc Windrush) no to 222 treaties with non-EU countries, no to global integrated supply-chain reality, no to Realpolitik, no to the UK's diaspora.

 

Brexit means Brexit means nothing more than showing everybody and everything the finger. A finger that's been well and truly stuck up the UK's collective backside for the last 2 plus years. Well in five months time the troublesome 2 1/2 year old is going to stick its finger in its mouth and start tasting what it has been screaming at the RoW.

 

Then things will  become very foul indeed. The UK has made it's own bed. It will have to lie in it
 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

24 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

31 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

But I don't expect much interest in facts from a humble anti-semite like yourself with your ridiculous conspiracy allegations

 

First off, I would amend your quote to be in compliance with the rules here or the mods will delete your post.

 

Stunning hypocrisy yet again. ???? 

 

Not surprising anymore, but nevertheless, worth pointing out. Ad-homenim attacks are the preserve of the Remoaners we all know that, but don't start asking others to censor themselves or their views in order to comply with forum 'rules' when your own vitriolic assertions about others whom you know little to nothing about are far more inflammatory.   

Edited October 31, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[malagateddy]

Bristol boy..I an anti muslim not anti semite..soros and his ilk shattered sterling '91 and baht '97.
Why do you think soros..reps from rothchilds.citibank.etc can wander in/out of corridors of power in brussels??
All they want is cheap labour and massive profit cos GREED IS GOOD
Many UK businesses have been relocated to eastern europe cos the lsbour is very cheap compared to the UK.
The eu is run by the global financial elite fir their benefit..not the benefit of the man/woman on the street


Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Bristol boy..I an anti muslim not anti semite..soros and his ilk shattered sterling '91 and baht '97.
Why do you think soros..reps from rothchilds.citibank.etc can wander in/out of corridors of power in brussels??
All they want is cheap labour and massive profit cos GREED IS GOOD
Many UK businesses have been relocated to eastern europe cos the lsbour is very cheap compared to the UK.
The eu is run by the global financial elite fir their benefit..not the benefit of the man/woman on the street


Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

There are huge numbers of powerful financial institutions out there. Yet you managed to single out Soros and the Rothschilds. And what corridors of power does Soros wander in or out of? He's a currency speculator - not a banker.

And how does this alleged EU financial elite differ from the UK financial elite? In fact, the UK is far harsher on workers and income inequality in the UK is far worse than in any other developed economy except the USA. And its government is currently contemplating another tax cut that will mainly benefit wealthier Britons.

As for shattering sterling and the baht, these speculators accurately gauged that they were overvalued. That their rate bore no relation to the strength of their respective economies. They just got there slightly ahead of others.

Edited October 31, 2018 by bristolboy

[My Thai Life]

45 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

 And its government is currently contemplating another tax cut that will mainly benefit wealthier Britons.

As for shattering sterling and the baht, these speculators accurately gauged that they were overvalued. That their rate bore no relation to the strength of their respective economies. They just got there slightly ahead of others.

Regarding your first point. It depends very much on how you calculate the benefit. Higher earners pay more tax in absolute terms and in percentage terms. Consequently higher earners receive a greater absolute amount of tax benefit from tax cuts. But as a percentage of pre- or post-tax income, it is usually the lower earners who receive the greatest benefit.

 

Re Soros and the UK's Black Wednesday. Actually it was more to do with the effects of the ERM (Exchange Rate Mechanism) - this is what Soros was wise to, the economy itself was not the main issue. There is a more general lesson here, that fixed exchange rates (or semi-fixed in the case of the ERM) are hazardous.

 

And this is what we are seeing playing out in the Eurozone, which is basically an internal fixed exchange rate between the Eurozone countries (the forex rates are/were effectively locked on entry). Monetary union without fiscal or political union is disastrous, as we have seen in the last few years, and according to many analysts the Eurozone is heading for even bigger problems over the next year or so. Whether it happens sooner or later, it will happen for the above-mentioned reasons.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by My Thai Life

[malagateddy]

There are huge numbers of powerful financial institutions out there. Yet you managed to single out Soros and the Rothschilds. And what corridors of power does Soros wander in or out of? He's a currency speculator - not a banker.
And how does this alleged EU financial elite differ from the UK financial elite? In fact, the UK is far harsher on workers and income inequality in the UK is far worse than in any other developed economy except the USA. And its government is currently contemplating another tax cut that will mainly benefit wealthier Britons.
As for shattering sterling and the baht, these speculators accurately gauged that they were overvalued. That their rate bore no relation to the strength of their respective economies. They just got there slightly ahead of others.

What about the hurt and misery soros caused to millions of people in the UK and Thailand?????
GREED IS GOOD..MONEY MONEY..pity you cannot eat it or guarantee good health with it.
Still..you can destroy peoples jobs and businesses with it!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tebee]

So why are we cutting the dept of International Trade's budget at exactly the time we are going to need them if we Brexit ?

 

  

[malagateddy]

More to the point bristol boy..exactly why should a hungarian/american stick his nose into the political affairs of the British people..eg..blatantly attempting to disrupt Brexit?????

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, tebee said:

So why are we cutting the dept of International Trade's budget at exactly the time we are going to need them if we Brexit ?

 

  

That's the EU bit.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Merkel's conservatives promise full employment by 2025

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germany-election-merkel/merkels-conservatives-promise-full-employment-by-2025-idUKKBN19O17L

Not just me then 

 

Debunking the myth of low German unemployment

People who are in a program of government-subsidized jobs where their employer only pays them one euro an hour, with the government paying the balance, are also not counted as "unemployed."

If you add those to the 3.4 million de facto unemployed mentioned previously, then we're at around 6.5 million unemployed and underemployed people in Germany. That reveals the catastrophic situation of the German labor market.

 

https://www.dw.com/en/debunking-the-myth-of-low-german-unemployment/a-42025200

They may not have zero hour contracts but I don't know of anyone in the UK that would work for 1 euro per hour

 

And the points raised in your post is why unemployment statistics are a joke - not just in Germany, but also in the UK.

 

The criteria has been 'massaged' so much, that govt. statistics re. unemployment are meaningless. ☹️

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

And the points raised in your post is why unemployment statistics are a joke - not just in Germany, but also in the UK.

 

The criteria has been 'massaged' so much, that govt. statistics re. unemployment are meaningless. ☹️

The U.S. numbers have been massaged so much they almost had a happy ending! ????

[My Thai Life]

28 minutes ago, tebee said:

So why are we cutting the dept of International Trade's budget at exactly the time we are going to need them if we Brexit ?

Actually, the news this morning (I forget whether it was the Guardian, Telegraph or BBC) was that a few hundred business leaders will be hired by the Gov't to develop international trade, rather than giving these jobs to civil servants. 

 

Given that the Civil Service is heavily biased in favour of Remain (the cause of many problems over the last few years) this can only be a good thing post Brexit.

Edited October 31, 2018 by My Thai Life

[tebee]

18 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That's the EU bit.

Er no - the dept of International Trade doesn't actually deal with the EU

 

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, My Thai Life said:

Actually, the news this morning (I forget whether it was the Guardian, Telegraph or BBC) was that a few hundred business leaders will be hired by the Gov't to develop international trade, rather than giving these jobs to civil servants. 

 

Given that the Civil Service is heavily biased in favour of Remain (the cause of many problems over the last few years) this can only be a good thing post Brexit.

"Given that the Civil Service is heavily biased in favour of Remain (the cause of many problems over the last few years) this can only be a good thing post Brexit."

 

More to the point IMO, business leaders are far better placed to 'talk business' than those with bugger all experience in anything other than politics and/or administration!

[My Thai Life]

4 minutes ago, tebee said:

Er no - the dept of International Trade doesn't actually deal with the EU

Actually it does Tebee. But nevertheless you've made an interesting point, which is at odds with the news I referenced a couple of posts above. Any chance you can follow up your data and let us know what the full story is?

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

10 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Actually, the news this morning (I forget whether it was the Guardian, Telegraph or BBC) was that a few hundred business leaders will be hired by the Gov't to develop international trade, rather than giving these jobs to civil servants. 

 

Given that the Civil Service is heavily biased in favour of Remain (the cause of many problems over the last few years) this can only be a good thing post Brexit.

Assuming those reports are correct and it's true, that would be the smartest decision the government has made in this whole debacle. Taking decision making out of the hands of biased civil servants whom lack the necessary experience in business to make effective judgments in this area, and handing it instead to successful business people/entrepreneurs is exactly what should happen.  

[My Thai Life]

43 minutes ago, tebee said:

So why are we cutting the dept of International Trade's budget at exactly the time we are going to need them if we Brexit ?

Here's a quote from the Civil Srvice World website. It seems that higher level Trade Negotiators are being hired at the expense of Trade Advisers. Interestingy that department was only set up in 2016. Perhaps the Negotiators will be paid throug a different department - that's just a guess. Well worth following up for the detail though.

 

"A budget problem has arisen because DIT has not got enough money from the Treasury to do everything it needs,” one person briefed on the budget impasse told the paper. “As a result, hiring trade negotiators is putting a strain on things and means the costs of expansion can only be met by cutting the number of people on the ground.”"

 

"https://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/news/department-international-trade-‘-make-job-cuts-low-hundreds’-–-report

[My Thai Life]

7 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Assuming those reports are correct and it's true, that would be the smartest decision the government has made in this whole debacle.

From yesterday's Telegraph:

 

"Britain will hire business leaders instead of career civil servants as ambassadors after Brexit to boost the nation’s relations with the rest of the world, Jeremy Hunt will announce on Wednesday.

The Foreign Secretary will set out plans to open up top diplomatic jobs to non-civil servants as part of a push to recruit “under-represented groups” to act on behalf of the UK on the global stage."

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/30/uk-hire-business-leaders-instead-civil-servants-ambassadors/

 

[Snow Leopard]

1 minute ago, My Thai Life said:

From yesterday's Telegraph:

 

"Britain will hire business leaders instead of career civil servants as ambassadors after Brexit to boost the nation’s relations with the rest of the world, Jeremy Hunt will announce on Wednesday.

The Foreign Secretary will set out plans to open up top diplomatic jobs to non-civil servants as part of a push to recruit “under-represented groups” to act on behalf of the UK on the global stage."

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/30/uk-hire-business-leaders-instead-civil-servants-ambassadors/

 

What a great idea. The already have quite a few in UKEF as consultants. 

[nauseus]

27 minutes ago, tebee said:

Er no - the dept of International Trade doesn't actually deal with the EU

 

Er - yes it does.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

14 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

From yesterday's Telegraph:

 

"Britain will hire business leaders instead of career civil servants as ambassadors after Brexit to boost the nation’s relations with the rest of the world, Jeremy Hunt will announce on Wednesday.

The Foreign Secretary will set out plans to open up top diplomatic jobs to non-civil servants as part of a push to recruit “under-represented groups” to act on behalf of the UK on the global stage."

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/30/uk-hire-business-leaders-instead-civil-servants-ambassadors/

 

Some good news at last!

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Bristol boy..I an anti muslim not anti semite..soros and his ilk shattered sterling '91 and baht '97.
Why do you think soros..reps from rothchilds.citibank.etc can wander in/out of corridors of power in brussels??
All they want is cheap labour and massive profit cos GREED IS GOOD
Many UK businesses have been relocated to eastern europe cos the lsbour is very cheap compared to the UK.
The eu is run by the global financial elite fir their benefit..not the benefit of the man/woman on the street

Some of the conspiracy theory guys are just know-nothing walking blotting paper for the loony tune websites. Others are quite calculating in their intention to insert a nasty edge in their contributions. And not forgetting those who walk behind quietly giving their 'approval'. Right from the beginning a significant angle of the Hard Brexiteers (at least on these pages) has been those pushing the old evils from the past. Worse than the Labour Party anti-semitism? Well there's a question.

Edited October 31, 2018 by SheungWan

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Some of the conspiracy theory guys are just know-nothing walking blotting paper for the loony tune websites. Others are quite calculating in their intention to insert a nasty edge in their contributions. And not forgetting those who walk behind quietly giving their 'approval'. Right from the beginning a significant angle of the Hard Brexiteers (at least on these pages) has been those pushing the old evils from the past. Worse than the Labour Party anti-semitism? Well there's a question.

Talking of "nasty edges", you managed to slip yours into the first sentence. Most of the nastiness, from the beginning, on these pages, has generally been initiated by Rabid Remainers. Woof woof!???? 

[dick dasterdly]

55 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Some good news at last!

Well certainly better than career civil servants/ex-politicians/wealthy people with the 'right connections within the UK' being employed to negotiate trade with other countries!

[tebee]

The question is, would he make a better leader than Theresa May?

 

 

[Patriot1066]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Well certainly better than career civil servants/ex-politicians/wealthy people with the 'right connections within the UK' being employed to negotiate trade with other countries!

 

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Talking of "nasty edges", you managed to slip yours into the first sentence. Most of the nastiness, from the beginning, on these pages, has generally been initiated by Rabid Remainers. Woof woof!???? 

Yes their racist rants such as by their Owen Jine calling older predominantly white men ‘Gammon’ to stir up hatred has been appalling. David Lanny saying Brexit was caused by white privallage anouther racist.

 

dog whistle remainers ???????????? Woof woof

[dick dasterdly]

23 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Some of the conspiracy theory guys are just know-nothing walking blotting paper for the loony tune websites. Others are quite calculating in their intention to insert a nasty edge in their contributions. And not forgetting those who walk behind quietly giving their 'approval'. Right from the beginning a significant angle of the Hard Brexiteers (at least on these pages) has been those pushing the old evils from the past. Worse than the Labour Party anti-semitism? Well there's a question.

 

Just now, nauseus said:

Talking of "nasty edges", you managed to slip yours into the first sentence. Most of the nastiness, from the beginning, on these pages, has generally been initiated by Rabid Remainers. Woof woof!???? 

Why bother replying to Sheungwan's seriously "loony tune" post??

 

Far better to ignore such pointless comments, which are intentional trolling to provoke a reaction.

[Patriot1066]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Why bother replying to Sheungwan's seriously "loony tune" post??

 

Far better to ignore such pointless comments, which are intentional trolling to provoke a reaction.

Yes in principal your correct as the comments are nonsensical, but shutting debate is a typical left wing and remainers tactic so replying is effective in the wider term. It’s what they like to control the narrative.

 

Remember that remainers can only see their sycophantical love of a foreign power the EU. Not any real debate think project fear now starting again.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

25 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Talking of "nasty edges", you managed to slip yours into the first sentence. Most of the nastiness, from the beginning, on these pages, has generally been initiated by Rabid Remainers. Woof woof!???? 

 

'Why bother replying to Sheungwan's seriously "loony tune" post?? Far better to ignore such pointless comments, which are intentional trolling to provoke a reaction.'

 

I agree, but sometimes it's hard to not call it out, especially as that kind of rhetoric only debases any debate/discussion we might have. 

 

If one uses this forum -thread- as a microcosm representing wider British society, then it is pretty informative and confirms/reflects what we witness in much of the MSM by many of the Europhile broadcasters as well as ignorant and disconnected Politicos like Lammy, Jones, Thornberry et al, and among more politically active civilians.

 

The modern 'left' so often opt for emotionally fueled ad-hom attacks, employing very little fact-based reasoning or logic in their arguments. They shout people of an opposing view down and label them with nasty epithets. 

Probably because it's easier and requires far less critical/analytical thought as no argument is formed...patently they haven't a leg to stand on in terms of the majority of the arguments they do manage to make. 

 

Just looking back at some of these pages, the vast majority of name calling and personal insults have been made by the Remoan side. Heated debate may have come from both sides with both using occasional strong language to lay out impassioned sentiments, but, it is the other side that consistently goes for attacks on their counterparts' character, I notice, again and again.   

Edited October 31, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[candide]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

And how does this alleged EU financial elite differ from the UK financial elite?

Probably the same guys, among others. And they will be unleashed in the future low-tax global hub of free trade agreements.