UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[tebee]

So - we are heading for a never-ending transition then?

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c6b537ba-e5d5-11e8-b4e6-5632a3a9d8ab

 

It’s worth noting that an ultimate insurance policy, or backstop to the backstop, that means Northern Ireland exclusively remaining in the EU’s customs union and single market for goods will probably continue to lurk within the agreed text.

 

In all likelihood, even if the future trading arrangements were to be deep enough to avoid a hard Irish border, just under two years will not be long enough to conclude negotiations. This will require one of the two options to be taken, but which?

 

The UK will eventually need to embrace the consequences of its decisions; if it wants a Canada-style trade agreement then Northern Ireland will require its own distinct relationship with the EU.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Again I am struggling to see your logic, yet again. You correctly stated that Powell and Benn were fiercely opposed to the EEC (Peter Shore also spoke so elequently on about the perils of joining the EEC), why would they be turning in their graves now we are leaving the EU, I would have thought they would be cock-a-hoop and doing cartwheels. 

 

I think it would be the weak and wobbly style and likely outcome of these so-called "negotiations" that would make them become so restless, rather than the outcome of the referendum itself.  

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

Just as Hitler hoodwinked the German electorate so too with the UK, ultra-right are trying to seize power.

 

This is illustrated by the extremely disturbing posts here extolling the virtues of Enoch Powell etc the publicity for T .Robinson or whatever his name is.....

 

Just as Hitler had to be resisted then, so now does the hard right and Brexit.

It needs to be stamped out before it goes too far.

Making this kind of comparison is going too far. Clot.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Stupooey said:

For the third time, they would object to the methodology rather than the result. They both believed that Parliament was sovereign, and that MPs would have abused that sovereignty by holding a referendum, which they would have deemed to be unconstitutional.

I was initially merely countering the argument of another poster that left-wing equated to remain. I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

What has been unconstitutional is the very fact that Parliament has been ceding sovereignty to the EEC/EC/EU for the past 45 years.  

[Mosha]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

Just as Hitler hoodwinked the German electorate so too with the UK, ultra-right are trying to seize power.

 

This is illustrated by the extremely disturbing posts here extolling the virtues of Enoch Powell etc the publicity for T .Robinson or whatever his name is.....

 

Just as Hitler had to be resisted then, so now does the hard right and Brexit.

It needs to be stamped out before it goes too far.

We were hoodwinked by Wilson and Heath in the mid 70s. If the full facts were explained then I wouldn't have voted to remain.

[adammike]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Comparing your political opponents to nazis, classy.

 

It's taken a while but finally we are getting there and calling out some of the brexiteers and Mr Lennon for what they are Fascist.

[mogandave]

It's taken a while but finally we are getting there and calling out some of the brexiteers and Mr Lennon for what they are Fascist.

Yes, the further left you go, the more likely you will end up with Fascism.

The right want less government, and less government control. The left wants more government, and more government control.

Clear?

[nauseus]

22 minutes ago, adammike said:

It's taken a while but finally we are getting there and calling out some of the brexiteers and Mr Lennon for what they are Fascist.

Why so long then? Last resort? What has John Lennon got to do with this anyway?

Edited November 12, 2018 by nauseus

[transam]

26 minutes ago, adammike said:

It's taken a while but finally we are getting there and calling out some of the brexiteers and Mr Lennon for what they are Fascist.

Mr. Lennon, is he an EU MEP from somewhere I cannot pronounce or a new boy on the block..?  ????

[mogandave]

Why so long then? Last resort?

They used to call them socialists, but now they’re socialists so now they call them fascists...

Clever yes?

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

10 minutes ago, transam said:

Mr. Lennon, is he an EU MEP from somewhere I cannot pronounce or a new boy on the block..?  ????

 

In case your weren't being sarcastic:

 

Stephen Lennon - aka Tommy Robinson.

[Patriot1066]

1 hour ago, Mosha said:

We were hoodwinked by Wilson and Heath in the mid 70s. If the full facts were explained then I wouldn't have voted to remain.

Actually they lied and withheld the true intentions of what we have now.

 

Project fear in 1974

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics

 

now were lied to the sky will fall in through Brexit.

 

 

[Patriot1066]

1 minute ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

In case your weren't being sarcastic:

 

Stephen Lennon - aka Tommy Robinson.

When someone changes their name is it not disrespectful to call them by their previous. Or is it the left with their usual insults as no answer to the problems Tommy raises?

[mommysboy]

The far right shouldn't infiltrate Tory ranks- they need their own party.

 

So, another Brexit day- same old sxxxfest.????

 

Two possible options imo:

 

1. Just leave, which probably mostly fulfils Leave sentiments.

2. Just don't bother.

 

This Government is shot though.

[Patriot1066]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

What has been unconstitutional is the very fact that Parliament has been ceding sovereignty to the EEC/EC/EU for the past 45 years.  

Here here!

[mommysboy]

Definition of fascism 

1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

 

Not really applicable to UK politics.

 

Yet we do have a growing hard right imo, which pretends to be otherwise, and hides within the mainstream conservative party, whilst promulgating its extreme elements through fringe parties or causes.

Edited November 12, 2018 by mommysboy

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Definition of fascism 

1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

 

Not really applicable to UK politics.

 

Yet we do have a growing hard right imo, which pretends to be otherwise, and hides within the mainstream conservative party, whilst promulgating its extreme elements through fringe parties or causes.

Not really applicable to UK politics, yes. Your definition of fascism seems to better describe the way the EU is heading.

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Not really applicable to UK politics, yes. Your definition of fascism seems to better describe the way the EU is heading.

 

 

That's stretching it.

 

You have to say, parts of Europe have walked the walk before.

 

Merriam Webster by the way.

[mogandave]

 
 
That's stretching it.
 
You have to say, parts of Europe have walked the walk before.
 
Merriam Webster by the way.

Yeah, if it would have been Wiki “right wing” or “hard right” would have been intentionally (and wrongly) made the focus of the description.

[vogie]

48 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

In case your weren't being sarcastic:

 

Stephen Lennon - aka Tommy Robinson.

But I have never heard the same people call Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), Steven Demetre Georgiou.

[nontabury]

19 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

 

That's stretching it.

 

You have to say, parts of Europe have walked the walk before.

 

Merriam Webster by the way.

Very true. Those parts of Europe that suffered under communism for many years, are those very same countries that are becoming more and more Anti E.U.

They know what it was like living under an undemocratic regime,and that is why they are increasingly becoming more in tune with the British electorates wish to escape the hated E.U.

[kwilco]

4 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Comparing your political opponents to nazis, classy.

 

Sadly not political , it's historical fact.....a lot of people who put Hitlerbinpower wwould not have called themselves Nazis because they really were not abl

[kwilco]

4 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Comparing your political opponents to nazis, classy.

 

Sadly not political opponents only Brexiteers just look at some of the rqcistsame, ugly posts on this thread........ it's not a comparison, it's a warning... They are identical to the Nazi Party

[kwilco]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

Sadly not political opponents only Brexiteers just look at some of the racist , ugly posts on this thread........ it's not a comparison, it's a warning... They are identical to the Nazi Party

 

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Sadly not political opponents only Brexiteers just look at some of the rqcistsame, ugly posts on this thread........ it's not a comparison, it's a warning... They are identical to the Nazi Party

A warning? Like Project Fear? Oh no!

[vogie]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

Sadly not political opponents only Brexiteers just look at some of the rqcistsame, ugly posts on this thread........ it's not a comparison, it's a warning... They are identical to the Nazi Party

Do you employ a script writer, he's good.????????????

[kwilco]

I notice with Brexiteers, there is a tendency to attack the messenger rather than the message....as they have no argument against the truth.

 

Take for instance the impending effects that the strangulation of Dover will have IMMEDIATELY after any Brexit.

Here is another....BTW .... no, it's not the Guardian, it's Krupp!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/12/brexit-plan-complete-shambles-uk-boss-of-thyssenkrupp-says?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR2qAWAVw1KYud11Ub6AKTqosmAWHSUGRCiamXB2ue4A94XPCMn9Vpzx9HQ

[kwilco]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Do you employ a script writer, he's good.????????????

You can't make this stuff up.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

I notice with Brexiteers, there is a tendency to attack the messenger rather than the message....as they have no argument against the truth.

 

Take for instance the impending effects that the strangulation of Dover will have IMMEDIATELY after any Brexit.

Here is another....BTW .... no, it's not the Guardian, it's Krupp!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/12/brexit-plan-complete-shambles-uk-boss-of-thyssenkrupp-says?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR2qAWAVw1KYud11Ub6AKTqosmAWHSUGRCiamXB2ue4A94XPCMn9Vpzx9HQ

 

[Srikcir]

17 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Those parts of Europe that suffered under communism for many years, are those very same countries that are becoming more and more Anti E.U. 

Such as Germany?