UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[bomber]

9 hours ago, kwilco said:

It beggars belief the Brexiteers back backing Britain in such a benighted way.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-living-standards-fall-longest-60-years-records-began-economy-household-incomes-costs-energy-a8071146.html?fbclid=IwAR1tW8WbzU3FCMUAnv84y6bBw-oK1vG5or5P8gNTKe4GoGeWIwUSznAO4Z0

Living standards are what you make them,when a smoke or a drink or having a £800 phone is more important this is what happens,personal hygiene and a nicer home become irrelevant,i see examples of it regular,most blamed the Tories now it will be the EUs fault,most think all will be better when JC takes over.

[melvinmelvin]

 

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

It's a cr*p deal,  but basically the best deal that could be had with ending FOM, which seems to have been May's priority.

 

It only wrecks the services sector as opposed to the whole economy, so it's better than no deal in that respect, but it's considerably worse than EU membership whille still costing the same.

 

It's not BEXINO or EEA, but those would have involved having FOM which seems to be her xenophobic red line, although they would have been better economically.

 

In short it's brexit for xenophobes, there are no other advantages too it     

 

right? the best deal that could be had?

 

if what this Dunt chap of yours writes is anything close to reality this deal is mega bad for the future of UK

UK wanted Brexit to get away from the UK leash,

and have now taken on another - for ever - EU leash

 

I personally don't particularly care as long as UK is not heading for EFTA

 

I think it is fairly fair to say that this mega mess is pretty much entirely the

fault of the UK parliament

they are the real decision makers here

they can put leash and chains on TM and instruct her re what to do/what not to do

they can sack her

the parliament is in control

 

they opt to do f#all, now they can enjoy this brilliant deal

if shred into very small pieces it goes down well with haggis and copious amounts of Belhaven

 

jeeeez, omnishambles is a toopolite expression

 

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

 

right? the best deal that could be had?

 

......

 

It's the best deal that could be had if you prioritize ending FOM over everything else.

 

It's an attempt to compromise between two incompatible options and will upset both sides and satisfy no one.

 

The brexit debate and the trade negotiations will drag on for years, at which time everybody will be so sick of the whole thing that we will probably end up rejoining.

 

Nothing else will get done in the country in those years - we will just gently decline.

[tebee]

23 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

this crap is no surprise really

 

maybe a crash out might actually serve uk better in the long term

 

what I found  strange is why on earth hasn't the parliament done anything

they are the real decision makers here

why don't they keep her in chains and instruct her re what to do / not to do

 

this mess is pretty much entirely the UK parliame 

The problem is the brexiters in parliament voted to abrogate their responsibility and had power over to the executive for the negotiations without parliamentary scrutiny.

 

Now that self same executive has come back with something they don't like they are complaining they were not allowed to be part of the discussions .

 

A cruller person than me might suggest the brexiters in parliament are not very bright.     

[tebee]

23 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

this crap is no surprise really

 

maybe a crash out might actually serve uk better in the long term

 

what I found  strange is why on earth hasn't the parliament done anything

they are the real decision makers here

why don't they keep her in chains and instruct her re what to do / not to do

 

this mess is pretty much entirely the UK parliame 

The problem is the brexiters in parliament voted to abrogate their responsibility and had power over to the executive for the negotiations without parliamentary scrutiny.

 

Now that self same executive has come back with something they don't like they are complaining they were not allowed to be part of the discussions .

 

A cruller person than me might suggest the brexiters in parliament are not very bright.     

[tebee]

"U.K. can either maintain the full union of the four British nations under Westminster’s authority — or it can end freedom of movement, a key motivator for Leave voters worried about immigration. It can’t do both."

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/real-brexit-bill-northern-ireland-tories-civil-war/

 

TM seems to have made her choice

[adammike]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

 

The truth is,Britain has indeed been humiliated. By our lying Politicians, able supported by other remainers.

Shame on them that they fooled you once.

Shame on you that they fooled you twice.

 

[melvinmelvin]

15 minutes ago, tebee said:

The problem is the brexiters in parliament voted to abrogate their responsibility and had power over to the executive for the negotiations without parliamentary scrutiny.

 

Now that self same executive has come back with something they don't like they are complaining they were not allowed to be part of the discussions .

 

A cruller person than me might suggest the brexiters in parliament are not very bright.     

or perhaps, the UK parliament is kinda dumb

 

abrogate their responsibility? what utter crap

 

[talahtnut]

Winston Churchill said, “A pessimist sees the difficulty in

every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in

every difficulty.”

Be warned remainers, pessimism may also lead to

'irritable bowel syndrome'. 

[grumpy 4680]

         I wish those in favour of staying in, would forget about their own pockets, and consider the wider implications of staying in,   the EU only want our contributions to keep the EU together, and to continue Brussels standard of living, also contributing to Poland and Greece (the main Euro benefactors) when Germany should of been responsible for paying reparations.

       Crooked politician's created this mess by taking the UK deeper into the EU after voting just for a common market, to line their own pockets, ask the Kinnocks and Hessaltine how they have benefited, two prime examples, and yet May is still trying to hang on. She should stick to referendum result that Brits tried for so long to get.   OUT means OUT.

 

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

...

 

abrogate their responsibility? what utter crap

 

The Secretary of State for Exiting the EU, David Davis, says accountability to Parliament for Brexit negotiations will be retrospective....

 

Mps agreed  this

[tebee]

Maybe this deal does respect the 52/48 vote at the referendum .....

 

 

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

 

@alexinlaw

Immigration lawyer. Also studied and enjoy literature and science. Equality for all. Atheist. Saboteur.

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

 

 

    

The biggest victory of the Brexit project is the fact that public opinion in the 27 has shifted towards greater support for the European integration project. The UK’s antics have taught people the cost of non-EU and brought home to many the benefits of staying.

 

Who would have thought 700,000 people would ever have marched across London to remain in the “hated” EU?
 

The numbers or marchers is in dispute some media outlets put the numbers as low as  250,000 and how many of those marchers were eligible to vote

Stop possible second referendum on E.U. membership Petition currently stands at 119,138 signatures

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/226071

[melvinmelvin]

16 minutes ago, tebee said:

The Secretary of State for Exiting the EU, David Davis, says accountability to Parliament for Brexit negotiations will be retrospective....

 

Mps agreed  this

there is only 1 top responsible body here,

that is the parliament, they have all the power there is 

they are ultimately responsible for the well being of the foggy islands - there is no way around that

 

parliament can jump in and direct actions at any point in time - they are omnipowerful

 

the degree of "mess" in the deal comes as no surprise

it is largely as expected

 

UK parliament? enjoy lengthy sojourns in Westminster pubs for lunch

half pissed for afternoon and evening sessions

 

leaves TM alone to crap down the UK

 

right, fuuuuuk the EU let foggy islands be great again

 

get a grip guys

 

''''''

as long as UK does not aim for EFTA I am half comfortable

 

however, UK is still a member of NATO and sits on nuclear new  years eve toys

not safe - not safe - the controllers of the toys are  weird and half pissed after 2 pm

 

,,,,,

 

time foggy islands think and stake out a course for the next 10 years

 

 

[damascase]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

The devil is in the detail, no wonder the car manufacturers have been quiet.

 

Elsewhere in the plan, the EU and UK pledge to "build and improve on the single customs territory provided for in the Withdrawal Agreement which obviates the need for checks on rules of origin" – a suggestion that a customs union with the UK could become permanent, which has angered Tory MPs.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-theresa-may-deal-trade-eu-frictionless-customs-union-borders-a8646376.html

It looks like they (try to?) make a distinction between the Customs Union and a ‘single customs territory’. At least, that is the only way I understand the reference to rules of origin. Either you are in a Customs Union which, in line with WTO-definitions, doesn’t require rules of origin within that union, or you are in a Free Trade agreement that, by the same WTO-rules, does require goods to be ‘originating’ to get the preferential treatment as agreed between the partner countries. However, in the latter situation there is absolutely no ‘single customs territory’........

Edited November 24, 2018 by damascase

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

right

 

and now, for 2 years, GB of this and that has pooled her resources together to produce this once in a lifetime

 

fantastic deal  --  well done, UK may have a Belhaven, Grouse is buying

En gang til?

Edited November 24, 2018 by Grouse

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

The problem is the brexiters in parliament voted to abrogate their responsibility and had power over to the executive for the negotiations without parliamentary scrutiny.

 

Now that self same executive has come back with something they don't like they are complaining they were not allowed to be part of the discussions .

 

A cruller person than me might suggest the brexiters in parliament are not very bright.     

Hello ????

[melvinmelvin]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

En gang til?

yes please

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

"U.K. can either maintain the full union of the four British nations under Westminster’s authority — or it can end freedom of movement, a key motivator for Leave voters worried about immigration. It can’t do both."

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/real-brexit-bill-northern-ireland-tories-civil-war/

 

TM seems to have made her choice

Au contraire. NOW is the time to grab the EU and force terms to remain

 

1) throttle immigration to high population density countries. Only migrants who have a job paying 30k plus apart from seasonal pickers

 

2) No more Strasbourg moves

 

3) Tighten CAP

 

4) all rebates and opt outs remain

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, adammike said:

Shame on them that they fooled you once.

Shame on you that they fooled you twice.

 

That’s where the problem started. They fooled the British electorate in 1975. Don’t take my word for it. Read up on how Heath, even lied to his own M.P’s,as confirmed this very week by one of the  Conservative M.P’ who attended one of his briefing before the vote.

2016, thanks to the internet we were able to side step the establishment owed media and seek out the true facts. Unfortunately people like you are unable to question what they’ve been fed. I beleive the word is brainwashed.

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

yes please

 

Velbekommen

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

A cruller person than me might suggest the brexiters in parliament are not very bright.     

Some of them might even be holding up a mirror to some of the Hard Brexiteers here.

[melvinmelvin]

18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Au contraire. NOW is the time to grab the EU and force terms to remain

 

1) throttle immigration to high population density countries. Only migrants who have a job paying 30k plus apart from seasonal pickers

 

2) No more Strasbourg moves

 

3) Tighten CAP

 

4) all rebates and opt outs remain

 

and the crew to do this may be found ?????????????????

 

 

[dunroaming]

Everyone scurrying around for positions now.  The DUP saying they would prefer a Labour government rather than May's Brexit deal and the squirming D. Raab saying that staying in the EU is a better option than May's deal.  I think Raab realises that he is going to lose his seat over his Brexit stance so is desperate to suck up to his constituents. 

 

All to play for now!

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Winston Churchill said, “A pessimist sees the difficulty in

every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in

every difficulty.”

Be warned remainers, pessimism may also lead to

'irritable bowel syndrome'. 

And the masochist is one who creates difficulties. Such as Brexit.

[rixalex]

It's an attempt to compromise between two incompatible options and will upset both sides and satisfy no one.
 

This goes to the crux of the problem. Rather than just getting on with delivering the result of the referendum in a whole hearted and positive manner, those pulling the strings have been desperately trying to walk an impossible tightrope from day one of not upsetting anyone, with the result of pleasing nobody.

A fully committed Brexit could have been successful. That's not what we've had. Remainers are now smugly proclaiming they were right all along and that leavers were stupid to believe Brexit could have ever been successful.

Remainers certainly MUST think leavers are stupid if they think leavers haven't noticed that it's been the remainers in parliament and in the media who have ensured a complete mess of this.



Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Remainers certainly MUST think leavers are stupid 

Oh, I say! That's a little harsh? ????

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

The problem is the brexiters in parliament voted to abrogate their responsibility and had power over to the executive for the negotiations without parliamentary scrutiny.

 

Now that self same executive has come back with something they don't like they are complaining they were not allowed to be part of the discussions .

 

A cruller person than me might suggest the brexiters in parliament are not very bright.     

Yes, evasion has been a key feature of Brexit, whomsoever holds the baton.

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Everyone scurrying around for positions now.  The DUP saying they would prefer a Labour government rather than May's Brexit deal and the squirming D. Raab saying that staying in the EU is a better option than May's deal.  I think Raab realises that he is going to lose his seat over his Brexit stance so is desperate to suck up to his constituents. 

 

All to play for now!

When did the DUP say they would prefer a Labour Gov, link would be good. As for "the squirming" D Raab saying staying in the EU is a better deal than leaving, isn't most people saying that, it is a bad deal. I guess his choice would be to crash out though.

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by vogie