UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

parliament cannot force a 2nd referendum

https://order-order.com/2018/11/27/experts-parliament-cant-force-second-referendum/?

so,

the Labour party MPs cannot propose a bill/act to parliament?

neither can LibDem or Tory?

 

think something is missing here

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, damascase said:

Thanks, I wasn’t aware that the EU Member States had retained their individual membership.

they do have the membership,

but can hardly do anything at all in WTO without the Commission's permission,

the Commission is doing all the talking all the nodding and all  the shaking

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

Parliament can do whatever it wants - it is the supreme power in the UK

tend to agree with that,

 

something is missing from that link

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

 

that is the British way,

just ask Mrs  nonono

 

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

tend to agree with that,

 

something is missing from that link

 

The link was from Guido Fawkes - what does that tell you about its veracity ?

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Brilliant written piece by My Harding although I would take issue with him blaming May for dividing the country.  Surely that should be put at Cameron's door for granting the referendum.  She picked up the poisoned chalice and I am sure she now wishes she hadn't.  The rest of letter I agree with completely and I am not, in any way a "Liberal Lefty".

 

know where the letter has been published??

 

[tebee]

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

know where the letter has been published??

 

Can't find the original, but he's just linked to it from his twitter feed, so presumably it's genuine 

 

 

[tebee]

 

[vinny41]

35 minutes ago, tebee said:

The link was from Guido Fawkes - what does that tell you about its veracity ?

More accurate than your snapshots from twitter which contains no links

here the text if you missed it

Constitutional experts Vernon Bogdanor and Lord Kerslake both agree that there is no way for Parliament to force a second referendum without a cooperative executive.

Professor Bogdanor confirms that as the Withdrawal Agreement is a treaty, Parliament can either ratify it or not. “A referendum amendment would have no effect on its own, to have a second referendum you need legislation which in 2015 took seven months to get through Parliament.”

Former Head of the Civil Service Lord Kerslake agrees, saying “there has to be, as Vernon says, legislation… the way forward has to come with the involvement and the agreement of Government.”

[nauseus]

13 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

Alan B'Stard: You know the really great thing about a fudged coalition is that neither of us need to carry out a single promise of our election manifestos.

[vinny41]

25 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

Should we question the veracity of this snapshot of this twitter feed  , no details of author , background nothing 

[melvinmelvin]

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

More accurate than your snapshots from twitter which contains no links

here the text if you missed it

Constitutional experts Vernon Bogdanor and Lord Kerslake both agree that there is no way for Parliament to force a second referendum without a cooperative executive.

Professor Bogdanor confirms that as the Withdrawal Agreement is a treaty, Parliament can either ratify it or not. “A referendum amendment would have no effect on its own, to have a second referendum you need legislation which in 2015 took seven months to get through Parliament.”

Former Head of the Civil Service Lord Kerslake agrees, saying “there has to be, as Vernon says, legislation… the way forward has to come with the involvement and the agreement of Government.”

so the only ones on the planet that can propose a piece of legislation

to the UK national assembly is the PM/cabinet?

 

 

[adammike]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

know where the letter has been published??

 

Facebook

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, adammike said:

Facebook

hehe,

should have guessed that Zuckerberg is behind this .....

 

[SheungWan]

38 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

More accurate than your snapshots from twitter which contains no links

here the text if you missed it

Constitutional experts Vernon Bogdanor and Lord Kerslake both agree that there is no way for Parliament to force a second referendum without a cooperative executive.

Professor Bogdanor confirms that as the Withdrawal Agreement is a treaty, Parliament can either ratify it or not. “A referendum amendment would have no effect on its own, to have a second referendum you need legislation which in 2015 took seven months to get through Parliament.”

Former Head of the Civil Service Lord Kerslake agrees, saying “there has to be, as Vernon says, legislation… the way forward has to come with the involvement and the agreement of Government.”

 

21 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

so the only ones on the planet that can propose a piece of legislation

to the UK national assembly is the PM/cabinet?

Parliament's job is primarily to consider legislation. Legislation is introduced mainly by the government of the day other than the provision of private member's bills. I doubt that a 2nd referendum could be introduced as a private member's bill. Since the government does not want a 2nd referendum a number of procedures would have to be gone through to introduce a 2nd referendum, the first of which would be to either pass a motion of no confidence in the Government or defeat the Government in a piece of legislation causing their resignation. What makes a 2nd referendum exceedingly unlikely is that the leader of the Labour Party is opposed to such a proposal and will not kick off unless Corbyn first forced out. Then it might be game on.

Edited November 27, 2018 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

so,

the Labour party MPs cannot propose a bill/act to parliament?

neither can LibDem or Tory?

think something is missing here

An MP can propose a Private Member's Bill, but these usually come out of a raffle and normally concern matters not covered in the round of government legislation. Brexit is covered by the government, so no PMB there. Effectively no legislation can be introduced without the nod of the government, other than votes of confidence. Not sure about matters concerning regional assembly based legislation.

[vogie]

Baroness Trumpington and leaver has died, she would have made a great negotiator for Brexit.

 

 

[tebee]

 

[tebee]

40 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Should we question the veracity of this snapshot of this twitter feed  , no details of author , background nothing 

'Tis not a snapshot, but an embedded tweet - firstly do you really think I'd go to all the effort of faking this up ? Secondly it's an opinion i'm quoting, not a statement of fact - why does it matter who the person is? Or do you really think no one else but me shares this opinion?

 

If you want to check who he is simply click on his name - but who is is is really irrelevant, it more the content of the video that is the context.

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

This is the problem - it won't be known beforehand, it will be down to the whim of the customs officer who deals with it. It will probably be the default tariff for that goods I.E. the highest possible tariff  without discounts agreed by trade deals.

 

I see, kinda like Thailand !!!

 

[melvinmelvin]

33 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

Parliament's job is primarily to consider legislation. Legislation is introduced mainly by the government of the day other than the provision of private member's bills. I doubt that a 2nd referendum could be introduced as a private member's bill. Since the government does not want a 2nd referendum a number of procedures would have to be gone through to introduce a 2nd referendum, the first of which would be to either pass a motion of no confidence in the Government or defeat the Government in a piece of legislation causing their resignation. What makes a 2nd referendum exceedingly unlikely is that the leader of the Labour Party is opposed to such a proposal and will not kick off unless Corbyn first forced out. Then it might be game on.

ta,

by all means, I do understand the roles of the assembly and the cabinet

I was more after the formalities here - not looking at practical possibilities in today's UK political climate

 

if you read your own post you will see that the language is somewhat on the defensive side,

primarily

mainly

now, if 300 Tory and Labour MPs would like the assembly to adopt a piece of legislation,

they would either need a PM nod or to ditch the government?

 

as I say, a day without any new knowledge is not a good day

 

apart from that, agree that  ref#2 is not likely, and thanks to whoever for that

 

as an aside

 

what are the bookies saying re the chances of deal flying or being shot down?

 

 

 

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

SNOT.

 

Now welcome me back.  

We've missed you!

 

Welcome back!

 

and congratulations on your prowess with crosswords. Are you at GCHQ now?

[melvinmelvin]

 

a wee break from Brexit;

 

Norwegian msm reports that the UK of foggy islands is suffering from death of pubs, at an increasing rate

 

CAMRA is worried and requests that the gov. takes action

(ha!, as if they don't drink enough in Westminster already!)

 

in 2001 - 52500 pubs on foggy islands

today      38815 pubs

 

London

in 2001  - 4835 pubs

today       3540

 

so guys, offer CAMRA some comfort - go out and have a Belhaven

 

 

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, Caledonia Boy said:

Thought I'd share Mike Harding's reply to the May begging letter.

Dear Mrs May
I am in France having a break having come here on the train all the way from Settle. I just read your letter to me and the rest of Britain wanting us all to unite behind the damp squib you call a deal. Unite? I laughed so much the mouthful of frogs legs I was eating ended up dancing all over the bald head of the bloke on the opposite table.
Your party’s little civil war has divided this country irreparably. The last time this happened Cromwell discontinued the custom of kings wearing their heads on their shoulders.
I had a mother who was of Irish descent, an English father who lies in a Dutch graveyard in the village where his Lancaster bomber fell in flames. I had a Polish stepfather who drove a tank for us in WW2 and I have two half Polish sisters and a half Polish brother who is married to a girl from Donegal.
My two uncles of Irish descent fought for Britain in N Africa and in Burma.
So far you have called us Citizens Of Nowhere and Queue Jumpers. You have now taken away our children and grandchildren’s freedom to travel, settle, live and work in mainland Europe.
You have made this country a vicious and much diminished place. You as Home Sec sent a van round telling foreigners to go home. You said “ illegal” but that was lies as the legally here people of the Windrush generation soon discovered.
Your party has sold off our railways, water, electricity, gas, telecoms, Royal Mail etc until all we have left is the NHS and that is lined up for the US to have as soon as Hannon and Hunt can arrange it
You have lied to the people of this country. You voted Remain yet changed your tune when the chance to grab the job of PM came. You should have sacked those lying toadies Gove and Bojo but daren’t because you haven’t the actual power.
You have no answer to the British border on the island of Ireland nor do you know how the Gib border with Spain will work once we are out
Mrs May you have helped to divide this country to such an extent that families and friends are now no longer talking to each other, you have managed to negotiate a deal far worse than the one we had and all to keep together a party of millionaires, Eton Bullingdon boys, spivs and WI harridans. Your party conserves nothing. It has sold everything off in the name of the free market.
You could have kept our industries going with investment and development – Germany managed it. But no – The Free Market won so Sunderland, Barnsley, Hamilton etc could all go to the devil
So Mrs May my answer to your plea for unity is firstly that it is ridiculous.
48% of us will never forgive you for Brexit and secondly, of the 52% that voted for it many will not forgive you for not giving them what your lying comrades like Rees Mogg and Fox promised them.
There are no unicorns, there is no £350 million extra for the NHS. The economy will tank and there will be less taxes to help out the poor. We have 350,000 homeless (not rough sleepers – homeless) in one of the richest countries on Earth and you are about to increase that number with your damn fool Brexit.
The bald man has wiped the frogs legs of his head, I’ve bought him a glass of wine to say sorry; I’m typing this with one finger on my phone in France and I’m tired now and want to stop before my finger gets too tired to join the other one in a sailors salute to you and your squalid Brexit, your shabby xenophobia and Little Englander mentality.
Two fingers to you and your unity from this proud citizen of nowhere. I and roughly half the country will never forgive you or your party.
Mike Harding

Fabulous! I wish I had written that wonderful piece!

 

Thanks and urrah, urrah, urrah

[vogie]

26 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

a wee break from Brexit;

 

Norwegian msm reports that the UK of foggy islands is suffering from death of pubs, at an increasing rate

 

CAMRA is worried and requests that the gov. takes action

(ha!, as if they don't drink enough in Westminster already!)

 

in 2001 - 52500 pubs on foggy islands

today      38815 pubs

 

London

in 2001  - 4835 pubs

today       3540

 

so guys, offer CAMRA some comfort - go out and have a Belhaven

 

 

Do we still get our Norwegian Christmas tree if we leave with a no deal melvin.

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Do we still get our Norwegian Christmas tree if we leave with a no deal melvin.

It'll be a plastic American one.

[nauseus]

31 minutes ago, Grouse said:

We've missed you!

 

Welcome back!

 

and congratulations on your prowess with crosswords. Are you at GCHQ now?

Thanks Grouse. Just on the way back from the Sin Bin....they put it further away each time......very disorienting. Have we Brexited yet? ????

 

Must dash. Annual service on the ray gun due yesterday but it does have a CE sticker, so should be OK.

[melvinmelvin]

just read in Swedish msm,

 

Trump says that the Brexit deal is very good for EU,

maybe so good that UK cannot trade with US in the future.

 

TM has some challenges,

Macron and fish

Trump and trade

Harding and mumble

triggers the public, not all - but many - TM and crew to the pumps!

 

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It'll be a plastic American one.

And chlorinated carols.

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Do we still get our Norwegian Christmas tree if we leave with a no deal melvin.

 

rest assured