UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[sandyf]

49 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Never let it be said that I do not own up to making an incorrect statement. I had forgot the 1997 Asian financial crisis. My statement regarding GBP/THB was incorrect. Mea culpa.

 

I should have said the pound was at its lowest for 20 years.

 

My mistake. Sorry.

 

Thanks to those who pointed out my error ????

Rates before and after the financial crisis are like apples and oranges.

It would only be perceived as a mistake by nit pickers.

[sandyf]

It was always going to be brexit means brexit at any cost. Essential services to the back of the queue please.

 

The UK faces a potential £5bn bill for a new satellite navigation system, after Theresa May abandoned efforts to remain part of the EU’s Galileo project after Brexit.

Britain may also lose £1.2bn already invested in the scheme after deciding to set up its own system for military use, according to an announcement made at the G20 summit in Argentina.

The estimated cost for the UK of building an alternative is £3bn to £5bn, although the government has declined to put a figure on the bill.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-sat-nav-galileo-project-eu-uk-theresa-may-satellite-navigation-military-g20-summit-a8662031.html

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, rixalex said:

They key aspect which you omit to mention is the part in which democratic decisions get implemented first and then overturned. What you desire is for a democratic decision to be overturned before it has been implemented. If this is happening all the time, as you allege, please cite some examples.

 

So you believe that what could be perceived to be a democratic decision, which subsequently appears to be flawed, should not be overturned until it is too late to overturn it.

There is a saying about cutting off your nose.

[malagateddy]

So you believe that what could be perceived to be a democratic decision, which subsequently appears to be flawed, should not be overturned until it is too late to overturn it.
There is a saying about cutting off your nose.

Everyone who voted LEAVE knew that there would be short term " turbulance " in leaving a massively corrupt organisation which imo is but a " front " for the elite financial globalists.
I still await an answer from any remoaner as to which country the following represent...Soros, Blair, A Campbell, the reps of Citibank, Rothchilds; Goldman Sachs etc.
Why do the above have access to the powers that be in the eu hq in Brussels???
Do you honestly believe that any of the above give a second's thought about the Man/Woman on the street in the UK!!!???
Please remember who crashed the pound sterling back in 1991 and reportably made a massive fortune by doing so. Soros.
People like him are but scum imo..they worship and have respect only for money..just a pity that money cannot give you good health or true happiness.



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[evadgib]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

not very informative, fairly "narrow" statement - saturday morning May marketing 

 

no mentioning of the real challenges for such a project

no mentioning of the UK units that would have to address those challenges

no mentioning of cost and time horizon

 

 

There's more detail in the edit.

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

How the hard right has used media to hoodwink Or even create Brexiteers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYonSZ8s3_o&fbclid=IwAR1vy4sBrit-9CYjdiSrJZnMbWDCgLzTCxfgT_JJrdW_zaVAPAbla5AL6wI

Create? Any that I am aware of had the capacity to form their own opinion long before Putin & Co launched their disinformation campaign.

 

Reminds me of a song by ian Dury ????

Edited December 1, 2018 by evadgib

[Chomper Higgot]

44 minutes ago, vogie said:

Complete baloney.

 

How can you overturn a democratic decision that hasn't even been implimented.

 

And the last time I looked my mouth was far from "frothing" infact it was frothless. It is not up to me whether we have a second referendum or not, but thereagain why the hell should we, just because the losers don't like the 'democratic' decision of the first one. Neither of the two main parties have shown any interest in having one and they are indeed on record saying they don't want one. The British public are sick and tired of referendums and just want the government to get us out of the 'funny farm'.

So a British Government has never reneged on a manifesto promise?

 

Doh!

[evadgib]

<double tap!>

Edited December 1, 2018 by evadgib

[evadgib]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So a British Government has never reneged on a manifesto promise?

Not on the scale sought by the 2016 silver medalists ????

Edited December 1, 2018 by evadgib

[melvinmelvin]

56 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It was always going to be brexit means brexit at any cost. Essential services to the back of the queue please.

 

The UK faces a potential £5bn bill for a new satellite navigation system, after Theresa May abandoned efforts to remain part of the EU’s Galileo project after Brexit.

Britain may also lose £1.2bn already invested in the scheme after deciding to set up its own system for military use, according to an announcement made at the G20 summit in Argentina.

The estimated cost for the UK of building an alternative is £3bn to £5bn, although the government has declined to put a figure on the bill.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-sat-nav-galileo-project-eu-uk-theresa-may-satellite-navigation-military-g20-summit-a8662031.html

another light hearted article not highlighting the difficulties

 

better put aside 10 billion

might fly in 10 years time if everything goes smoothly

 

these birds operate in very congested bands, if frequences are not available today

you look at a 15+ years project

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

38 minutes ago, evadgib said:

There's more detail in the edit.

thanks,

just read the governments press release again, couldn't see any pointer to further material though

 

 

[rixalex]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

So you believe that what could be perceived to be a democratic decision, which subsequently appears to be flawed, should not be overturned until it is too late to overturn it.

There is a saying about cutting off your nose.

Why will it be too late to rejoin the EU once we have left?

 

Democracy will have been respected and rather than speculation, it will have been forever proven who was right. The matter truly will have been put to bed. What you advocate will do none of the above. I accept that it may involve the country enduring some pain, but the time for that discussion about whether we were as a country, prepared to take on the risk of cutting a new path away from the EU, was before the decision was handed over to the country. Too late to go back. Doing so would mean cutting off a whole lot more than your nose.

[rixalex]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

They key aspect which you omit to mention is the part in which democratic decisions get implemented first and then overturned. What you desire is for a democratic decision to be overturned before it has been implemented. If this is happening all the time, as you allege, please cite some examples.

 

Still waiting...

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

thanks,

just read the governments press release again, couldn't see any pointer to further material though

 

 

That's cos its a clusterf... ????

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

thanks,

just read the governments press release again, couldn't see any pointer to further material though

 

 

That's cos its a clusterf... ????

[vogie]

46 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So a British Government has never reneged on a manifesto promise?

 

Doh!

I think your posts would be much improved if you didn't feel the need to use derogatory tones.

 

Why do you feel the need to use expressions like "doh", does it make you feel superior to other posters?

Edited December 1, 2018 by vogie

[billd766]

7 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Tissue of lies with the "77 percent of us don't want Brexit -- signed, Young people." 

Quote from the link.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-mistakes-that-led-to-brexit-a-1240126.html

 

""We have to live with this the longest time," says Matilda. "But nobody asked us." She was 15 years old when a narrow majority of her compatriots voted to try their luck outside of the European Union. Several members of Matilda's family voted for Brexit. But "not everybody understood what they were voting for," she says."

 

Without trying to be patronising, exactly the same could and was said about the referendum of 1975, and we older people have lived with that for 43 years so far. Many of us have waited until 2016 to correct that mistake.

 

We voted then for our families and our unborn children and for the UK but we too were lied to by politicians who did know the truth about the EU at that time.

 

At that time there were few computers, little or no internet, no social media, no smart phones, there was only the print media, BBC and ITV news and the radio. It was easy to fool the population back then and easier to fool them now.

[mogandave]

Yes, here’s a graph from 2008 to 2018.

Clearly Brexit is the problem...

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Quote from the link.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-mistakes-that-led-to-brexit-a-1240126.html

 

""We have to live with this the longest time," says Matilda. "But nobody asked us." She was 15 years old when a narrow majority of her compatriots voted to try their luck outside of the European Union. Several members of Matilda's family voted for Brexit. But "not everybody understood what they were voting for," she says."

 

Without trying to be patronising, exactly the same could and was said about the referendum of 1975, and we older people have lived with that for 43 years so far. Many of us have waited until 2016 to correct that mistake.

 

We voted then for our families and our unborn children and for the UK but we too were lied to by politicians who did know the truth about the EU at that time.

 

At that time there were few computers, little or no internet, no social media, no smart phones, there was only the print media, BBC and ITV news and the radio. It was easy to fool the population back then and easier to fool them now.

""We have to live with this the longest time," says Matilda. "But nobody asked us." She was 15 years old when a narrow majority of her compatriots voted to try their luck outside of the European Union. Several members of Matilda's family voted for Brexit. But "not everybody understood what they were voting for," she says."

 

A 15 year old is sure she understands the issues involved better than those with a different opinion ????.

 

Edit - To be fair, all teenagers are convinced they know far better than the older generations - it's what being a teenager is all about ????.

Edited December 1, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Grouse]

18 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Quote from the link.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-mistakes-that-led-to-brexit-a-1240126.html

 

""We have to live with this the longest time," says Matilda. "But nobody asked us." She was 15 years old when a narrow majority of her compatriots voted to try their luck outside of the European Union. Several members of Matilda's family voted for Brexit. But "not everybody understood what they were voting for," she says."

 

Without trying to be patronising, exactly the same could and was said about the referendum of 1975, and we older people have lived with that for 43 years so far. Many of us have waited until 2016 to correct that mistake.

 

We voted then for our families and our unborn children and for the UK but we too were lied to by politicians who did know the truth about the EU at that time.

 

At that time there were few computers, little or no internet, no social media, no smart phones, there was only the print media, BBC and ITV news and the radio. It was easy to fool the population back then and easier to fool them now.

Is Der Spiegel for narcissists?

[rixalex]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Is Der Spiegel for narcissists?

No but read it anyway.

[evadgib]

<double tap!>

[evadgib]

50 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think your posts would be much improved if you didn't feel the need to use derogatory tones.

 

Why do you feel the need to use expressions like "doh", does it make you feel superior to other posters?

It supports their narrative that we're all thick which is wearing a little thin & falling way short of humour or banter, both of which 'Wemain(!)' welcome ????

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by evadgib

[melvinmelvin]

9 minutes ago, rixalex said:

No but read it anyway.

 

it is a good read, and it deserves to be reflected over, beneficial to both jocks and pommies

 

 

[mogandave]

Brexit has even driven the US Dollar down...

[melvinmelvin]

18 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Brexit has even driven the US Dollar down...

 

 

that is probably why POTUS says,

it is a good deal for EU - maybe we cannot trade with the UK in the future

 

[damascase]

Just read that another Cabinet Minister has resigned over Brexit: Sam Gyimah.

Edited December 1, 2018 by damascase
Typo

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

17 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Nigel Farage stated quite clearly on the eve of the vote results that he would continue to fight on, especially if it where a narrow vote like 48-52. As is his democratic right. Remain supporters have the same right, as do leavers who have thought better of it now the reality is on the table.

No one is denying your right to appeal, but to overturn a democratically mandated decision is in direct contradiction of the majority's wishes - therefore, by definition - antidemocratic. It's that simple.

 

And look, be serious, we haven't even left yet! Premature doomsday diagnoses are the specialty of those who didn't get their own way - aka: the establishment & the Remoan crowd. Simply playground tactics writ large. It's as blatant as the noses on your faces, and we can all see through it I'm afraid.

Edited December 1, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Johnyo]

when EU expanded eastwards several countries put a brake on east to west FoM and introduced

a gradual transition arrangement

(Sweden opened up fully from day 1 as far as I remember.)

 

this bit about getting employment within x hours or out I don't think is correct

that would mean it would be risky business to retire in EU

Portugal and Spain could just decide to throw out all retirees since they don't work

 

 

 

They should anyway unless they have a pension or income of more than 36 K a year. The English pensioners with 500 to 1000 quid a month are a waste of time. We can play a game, Spain to the UK , I swap you Maria the nurse who helps the elderly in care for Sharon and Gazz who spend their pathetic pension down the local pub in Torremolinos.

 

 

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[Johnyo]

No one is denying your right to appeal, but to overturn a democratically mandated decision is in direct contradiction of the majority's wishes - therefore, by definition - antidemocratic. It's that simple.

 

And look, be serious, we haven't even left yet! Premature doomsday diagnoses are the specialty of those who didn't get their own way - aka: the establishment & the Remoan crowd. Simply playground tactics writ large. It's as blatant as the noses on your faces, and we can all see through it I'm afraid.

 

Come on a bit of complaining is OK after all we had to listen to the anti EU moaners for 40 years lying and complaining how the poor Brits where being bullied by big bad EU wolf!

 

 

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