U.S. topics -- banks reported foreign address to credit agencies?

[Jingthing]

Here's another somewhat nerdy / paranoid question.

 

Keeping a credit record, preferably a good one, is very desirable for expats for many reasons, but perhaps most critically if you repatriate. Without a credit record you'd have to start from scratch and have trouble doing basic things, like renting an apartment.

 

So currently I've got a decent credit report based on my current last U.S. address.

 

But I have a concern.

 

Suppose I try to change my address officially at a U.S. bank to my foreign address. My understanding from them is that they will do a "hard" credit check if I do that so it's fair to assume they'll be interacting with credit agencies.

 

IF I did that, is it likely my credit report would be updated to reflect my foreign address as my actual residence address?

 

Not sure that's so bad for credit agencies (or perhaps it is) but concerned how that might migrate to other entities like my credit card company, banks, brokerages, etc. 

[fittobethaied]

Bad idea! US based stock brokerage firms are not licensed to do business outside the US, and if they catch wind that you are living abroad they will cancel your account immediately. If that happens and your stocks are down but you are waiting for them to recover, then you are screwed.

[Jingthing]

Yes I'm aware of that but I want to tell one bank that I know accepts foreign addresses so that going forward I'll have at least one U.S. bank that is not at risk of expat discrimination. But my concern is that that news will be migrated from the bank and get to other firms that indeed may close my accounts.

 

I opened it in the bank that accepts foreign addresses based on my U.S. mailing address that matches my credit report. For that they do a "soft" credit record inquiry. I was told for foreign addresses they do a "hard" credit inquiry. Whatever that means exactly I don't know. 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Jingthing

[jingjai9]

Bad idea! US based stock brokerage firms are not licensed to do business outside the US, and if they catch wind that you are living abroad they will cancel your account immediately. If that happens and your stocks are down but you are waiting for them to recover, then you are screwed.

 

Couldn't you give someone you trust in-country power of attorney to manage your account? I did this from 1997 - 1999.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, jingjai9 said:

Bad idea! US based stock brokerage firms are not licensed to do business outside the US, and if they catch wind that you are living abroad they will cancel your account immediately. If that happens and your stocks are down but you are waiting for them to recover, then you are screwed.

 

Couldn't you give someone you trust in-country power of attorney to manage your account? I did this from 1997 - 1999.

No. That is not realistic for my situation.

 

[Colabamumbai]

Keep a mailing address in your country.

[bkkgriz]

1 hour ago, fittobethaied said:

Bad idea! US based stock brokerage firms are not licensed to do business outside the US, and if they catch wind that you are living abroad they will cancel your account immediately. If that happens and your stocks are down but you are waiting for them to recover, then you are screwed.

I'm not sure how accurate that is. My bank USAA knows my address is in Japan and I continue to buy and sell stocks via Vanguard. That is my situation, but maybe I am not addressing the question properly. If not, my apologies.

[suzannegoh]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes I'm aware of that but I want to tell one bank that I know accepts foreign addresses so that going forward I'll have at least one U.S. bank that is not at risk of expat discrimination. But my concern is that that news will be migrated from the bank and get to other firms that indeed may close my accounts.

 

I opened it in the bank that accepts foreign addresses based on my U.S. mailing address that matches my credit report. For that they do a "soft" credit record inquiry. I was told for foreign addresses they do a "hard" credit inquiry. Whatever that means exactly I don't know. 

I think that I'd tell that one bank that accepts foreign addresses that I was living abroad only after my other banks/brokerages figured that out on their own.  As an example, open a Schwab account with a foreign address only when/if Fidelity restricts your account.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Colabamumbai said:

Keep a mailing address in your country.

Yes.

As I think it's best for me to be an expat for life, either in Thailand or a third country, I want to have a backup plan where I have at least one U.S. bank account that definitely won't kick me out for living abroad. With that, I could pay my U.S. based credit card (assuming they don't dump me), pay my social security into it, ACH transfer from brokerage, and also have an account to repatriate funds if it comes to that. Mail box services are often detected and people are kicked out. I use a physical address but for the longer term I want to not necessarily be dependent on that in case I can no longer use that address. 

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, suzannegoh said:

I think that I'd tell that one bank that accepts foreign addresses that I was living abroad only after my other banks/brokerages figured that out on their own.  As an example, open a Schwab account with a foreign address only when/if Fidelity restricts your account.

Fidelity already more or less knows but I haven't fully come clean. I have a plan for that too. interactivebrokers will openly accept expats. But I don't have a bank account with Fidelity and interactive brokers isn't a bank. I have a bank now that officially accepts foreign addresses so the question is what are the consequences of making that official with them as far as that info migrating to credit agencies and other banks and brokerages. It seems to me there is a good chance that would flow to the credit agencies so my question really is would that mean definitely my credit card company would then know and also other banks and brokerages. I guess the likelihood is high credit card issuers would know but I doubt banks/brokerages that you've been with for years are going to routinely do credit checks on you.  Yes I have a lot to potentially lose but my feeling is the game I've been playing (and so many other American expats do similar) is sooner or later going to fully blow up on me and having at least one U.S. bank where I can be honest is more than I might eventually have otherwise.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, bkkgriz said:

I'm not sure how accurate that is. My bank USAA knows my address is in Japan and I continue to buy and sell stocks via Vanguard. That is my situation, but maybe I am not addressing the question properly. If not, my apologies.

Likely because Vanguard doesn't know!

That's really the crux of this topic. Risks of the news migrating to other financial firms. In the case I am considering because of the "hard" credit check thing they say they will do that will show the U.S. address which is used for a U.S. based credit card as well. 

[ThaiFelix]

The land of the free

[suzannegoh]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Fidelity already more or less knows but I haven't fully come clean. I have a plan for that too. It looks as if interactivebrokers will openly accept expats. But I don't have a bank account with Fidelity. I have a bank that official accepts foreign addresses so the question is what are the consequences of making that official with them as far as that info migrating to credit agencies and other banks and brokerages. It seems to me there is a good chance that would flow to the credit agencies so my question really is would that mean definitely my credit card company would then know and also other banks and brokerages. I guess the likelihood is high credit card issuers would know but I doubt banks/brokerages that you've been with for years are going to routinely do credit checks on you.  Yes I have a lot to potentially lose but my feeling is the game I've been playing (and so many other American expats do similar) is sooner or later going to blow up on me and having at least one U.S. bank where I can be honest is more than I might eventually have otherwise.

I've used my Fidelity ATM card from Thailand quite a bit so it seems like if they were trying very hard to detect whether customers had expatriated that would have raised a flag.  But they've never challenged me about that.  Likewise with my Chase credit cards; they have a US address on record for me but almost all the charges are from Thailand.   But I use those cards less now and am religious about using a VPN when connecting to financial web sites.  Don't want to tempt fate too much.

I think that it poses some risk for credit agencies to know your foreign address and that you're right that a mitigating factor is that your current financial institutions would probably not see that address unless/until they had reason to run a credit report on you.  I also think that you're right that at some point financial institutions might get serious about detecting expats.  But I still think that I would wait until then before doing anything rather than rocking the boat now.

[Jingthing]

Fidelity for my IRA already sent me the email saying they consider that I'm living abroad with lots of restrictions. They concluded it based on logins.

 

But there is still some ambiguity with them. TBD.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

The land of the free

It's a disgusting situation. Sometimes it almost feels like the powers that be of all parties are trying to make living abroad too difficult for it to ever be popular. Probably not exactly that more likely complete ambivalence to the negative side effects of anti money laundering regulations on everyone dealing with international finances. There is a lobbying group working on these issues but I haven't been impressed with their results. The NRA they're not! American Citizens Abroad. Freedom should include the freedom to live abroad without onerous discrimination. I find this especially concerning as a baby boomer. The majority of boomers are woefully underfunded for retirement. Living abroad can be the solution for that. Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[suzannegoh]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Fidelity for my IRA already sent me the email saying they consider that I'm living abroad with lots of restrictions. They concluded it based on logins.

 

But there is still some ambiguity with them. TBD.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

Sorry to hear that. Were you accessing Fidelity's website without a VPN or did it turn out that using a VPN was insufficient?

[Jingthing]

Sorry to hear that. Were you accessing Fidelity's website without a VPN or did it turn out that using a VPN was insufficient?

Yes I was logging on from Thailand naked. Then a few years back multiple firms pushed back at that but Fidelity was the only one that got hard core. So I started doing direct US logins via TeamViewer using a physical computer in the US to all my accounts. No VPN. But that's a problematic solution long term and I've considered switching to a VPN but I've read many reports of firms not liking that either.

 

Which VPN do you use specifically?

 

To add even though Fidelity says they know abroad for some years now that conclusion hasn't migrated to credit agencies or any other firms that I use.

 

It's possible Fidelity changed their view about me based on the US logins.

 

BTW I suspect they got me from social media. It is well known firms use that to smoke out suspected expats.

 

So I closed all my social accounts that identify me as living in Thailand.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[James2020]

My experience:  I am a US citizen and my wife is a dual citizen, the US and Thailand.  We live in Thailand.  We are not applying for a new credit card or bank account in the US, so we have no US address, phone number, or driver's license.  We are completely open about living in Thailand, but all of our bank accounts and credit cards were opened when we lived in the US.  The two US bank accounts in my name accept a foreign address, and I've had no problem with them.  My Social Security transfers are deposited there (SS knows I live in Thailand), and I wire money to live on to my Thai wife's account in Thailand (there probably are cheaper ways).  My Vanguard account accepts our foreign address.  I have no bank account in Thailand, but we both have Thai DL's which are accepted in the US (no IDP) when we travel.  When I transferred our address on our US based credit cards (Chase), they asked for a 'Mailing Address' and a 'Residence Address'.  For two of the credit cards, I gave my son's mailing address in the US, since I've found that some US merchants won't accept a US credit card with a foreign address for online purchases.  The other two credit cards were changed to our Thailand address for both 'Mailing Address' and 'Residence Address'.  We already have received an updated credit card in Thailand for one that expired.  I know that the credit agencies require a US address to get a free credit report, so I cannot get one.  That is the only problem I've come across.  

[mogandave]

Fidelity on other financial institutions do not want to bar anyone from doing business with them, they are just trying to comply with the regulations imposed on them.

The IRS knows I live in Thailand, and I do all my banking online.

I have several Fidelity accounts including a 401K, Roth, Trad IRA and brokerage.

My wife (Thai national) also has a Roth with them and my boy has a UTMA my mother set up for him.

I check all these accounts weekly, and have not had an issue.

[Jingthing]

The concern I have with informing current accounts in the U.S. is that I might not be so lucky as some others have. I am down to one U.S. credit card. If I lose that, I won't be getting another. I absolutely need at least one U.S. bank that definitely accepts a foreign address. So I could afford to lose all the others if I could just keep the one. The reason I opened so many accounts before moving abroad was because of things changing so that I could afford to lose some. Things did change. For example, my original wiring bank totally changed their policy and I can't use them anymore. Some banks might make the decisions conditionally based on your relationship with them and size of accounts.

Fidelity does not restrict larger dollar customers. The last I read was 500K USD. 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Jingthing

[bkkgriz]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Likely because Vanguard doesn't know!

That's really the crux of this topic. Risks of the news migrating to other financial firms. In the case I am considering because of the "hard" credit check thing they say they will do that will show the U.S. address which is used for a U.S. based credit card as well. 

My mailing address for Vanguard is my address in Japan. Before that, it was in Thailand. Vanguard has known my status for the last 19 years I have lived abroad.

[Jingthing]

Just now, bkkgriz said:

My mailing address for Vanguard is my address in Japan. Before that, it was in Thailand. Vanguard has known my status for the last 19 years I have lived abroad.

OK. Bank and brokerage?

Vanguard, BTW, will be requiring two factor (to phone text) authorization by September of this year. Don't know if they accept foreign cell numbers. Voice messages and email not allowed. 

[ThaiFelix]

36 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's a disgusting situation. Sometimes it almost feels like the powers that be of all parties are trying to make living abroad too difficult for it to ever be popular. Probably not exactly that more likely complete ambivalence to the negative side effects of anti money laundering regulations on everyone dealing with international finances. There is a lobbying group working on these issues but I haven't been impressed with their results. The NRA they're not! American Citizens Abroad. Freedom should include the freedom to live abroad without onerous discrimination. I find this especially concerning as a baby boomer. The majority of boomers are woefully underfunded for retirement. Living abroad can be the solution for that. Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

Yeah I feel you.  I am not from the US but suffering the same discrimination.  I worked hard for my country all my working life, paid my taxes etc.  Never trusted insurance or superannuation so put my money into real estate.  Suffered a back injury some years ago but it was due to an accumulation of years of hard work plus genetics.....not something that could be pinpointed to make any claim.  My back problems meant I couldnt get any work but I didnt want to live on disability, especially they way the govt pries into your every private life, especially when you have assets.  I had an opportunity to come here as a teacher...the country always appealed to me, its cheaper to live, and I thought the hot weather better for my back.

 

Now I have retired my wonderful govt refuses to give me my due pension unless I come back and live there for 2 years before making a claim.  Then they would penalise me because I have worked hard and acquired assets over my life.  Having a Thai wife going home for 2 years is completely out of the question because I just couldnt afford it....I would have to sell one of my properties to get by....and why should I?  I can live here comfortably on the rent I recieve from my properties plus my life savings.  The govt of course taxes me very highly because I dont reside there and I understand it to a point.  These new tax/pension laws were brought in with new immigrants and overseas property owners in mind but the money grubbing politicians have taken advantage of it and applied the laws to all, including Australians living abroard.

 

I realise now I may have made a big mistake in my life.  I would have been better off being a lazy bastard sitting on my bum all my life, or smoking dope, at the governments expense.  Maybe when I did work hard I should have pissed it all up against the wall every week instead of putting away for  my future.   When I hurt my back I should have taken govt welfare and not tried to be so independent.   If I had been a lazy bastard, a dopehead, piss tank, or an invalid, I would have got my full pension!  But I wouldnt want to live like that and feel it wouldnt have done my country much good either.  But it seems that is what the govt is trying to encourage! 

 

I am bitterly disappointed with the country I love so much and helped to build.

[suzannegoh]

23 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Which VPN do you use specifically?

 

I use PIA but there are many other VPN’s that work adequately.  I also run tests to see what information is being leaked despite running a VPN and plug those leaks if I can.  Some common leaks include DNS leaks, WebRTC leaks, and the time zone of your PC not matching the timezone of your IP address. Two of websites that I use for that purpose are these:
https://ipleak.net
https://whoer.net

[suzannegoh]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OK. Bank and brokerage?

Vanguard, BTW, will be requiring two factor (to phone text) authorization by September of this year. Don't know if they accept foreign cell numbers. Voice messages and email not allowed. 

That's an example of why it's a good idea to get a Google Voice number before you expatriate.

[Number 6]

22 hours ago, bkkgriz said:

I'm not sure how accurate that is. My bank USAA knows my address is in Japan and I continue to buy and sell stocks via Vanguard. That is my situation, but maybe I am not addressing the question properly. If not, my apologies.

I think Vanguard will kill your account WHEN they find out so do use VPN and have a backup plan.

 

Fidelity definitely on the hunt, especially if account under 100k

[gk10002000]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

OK. Bank and brokerage?

Vanguard, BTW, will be requiring two factor (to phone text) authorization by September of this year. Don't know if they accept foreign cell numbers. Voice messages and email not allowed. 

yeah, some agencies and banks are doing that now, some tried it and stopped it due to the complaints.  It is getting beyond a pain to becoming intrusive and obstructive.  I don't see it getting reduced going forward.  And once one gets locked out, the process to get back in is tough.  Etrade almost tried that with me a little while ago, and tried to tell me I had to provide some original records, birth certificate, passport etc.  I said, nothing has changed except Etrade and if they want me to take my 1Mil out of there, I will happily transfer it out. I warned them in no uncertain words that as soon as I sniff any possibility of me not getting easy access to my monies, I leave.

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It's a disgusting situation. Sometimes it almost feels like the powers that be of all parties are trying to make living abroad too difficult for it to ever be popular. Probably not exactly that more likely complete ambivalence to the negative side effects of anti money laundering regulations on everyone dealing with international finances. There is a lobbying group working on these issues but I haven't been impressed with their results. The NRA they're not! American Citizens Abroad. Freedom should include the freedom to live abroad without onerous discrimination. I find this especially concerning as a baby boomer. The majority of boomers are woefully underfunded for retirement. Living abroad can be the solution for that. Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Low-hanging fruit? It costs lots of money to go after the rich, enabled and lawyered-to-the-hilt abusers of the anti-money laundering regulations and slapping arbitrary fines on corporate abusers is just for show.

[mtls2005]

On 8/16/2018 at 4:44 PM, Jingthing said:

Suppose I try to change my address officially at a U.S. bank to my foreign address.

 

I would not do this.

 

Just maintain a perceived U.S. "presence" with banks, credit card companies and financial institutions, especially if you plan to repatriate.

 

I would recommend getting all three credit reports forwarded to you, if you aren't already doing this annually, just to make sure you know what's going on and what the addresses show.

 

Freezing/unfreezing reporting with Equifax, Experian and TransUnion can be challenging from Thailand.