More staff issues ,be warned

[kannot]

Staff here have been an issue  for a long time, even local Thai business owners say getting even  half decent  staff is a nightmare, today we had the latest lot decide stealing the fish was ok despite us giving them some every 2-3  weeks

Theyve been here about 2 months, initially ( as usual) they start off well , then they get "comfortable" and start taking liberties.

So before the "brigade"  chip in with their, "you dont pay/give  enough"  Ill explain the job. Taking care of 10 rai of pineapples and 4  rai of garden, watering trees weeding etc.

Job includes, free  house, electric, water, motorbike, rice  5  day week 18000 baht two people Thats 450 baht a day + perks. I also buy them 1-2 drinks daily ie coke or fruit drink etc I also do 75% of the work with them, that is  shovelling stone mixing concrete moving soil etc.I dont just sit and watch or tell them to get on with it

Hours of work 7-12 then 2  hours  lunch ( can be hot on the land so this  leaves the hottest time for resting) then 2  till 5pm

 

What w e no w  have is 7-11.15 and then maybe 2-4pm

They were shown exactly  how to do everything numerous times but now do things how they want.

We had a lot of big fish  about 250 large, when you threw the fish  food all you would see was gaping mouths, now what you see is only small fish who never used to get a look in.

I suspected  fish were being taken a  few  weeks ago so I tied the catch net up a certain way when i went to BKK, sure enough when I came back the net had been re  tied, in the same place but my small knot like a bow  wasnt there.

Got the wife to  call him and ask had he touched  the net at  all, he said no, she then said  Id   tied it a certain way and it wasnt  like that now,.then his memory recovered and he told us it had  "fallen down". and he'd  put it back, before  she  called i told her hes going to say "no" then he  will say "  fell down"

I know it was  impossible for the  net to fall down as it was  tied in two  places and also over the bar it hung from wa s lapped over itself and would not slip ever, held by its own weight. Metal chain around the edges = heavy catch net

Its  now over 6  years since weve lived here and the staff are just a nightmare, the kinder you are the more they think they can get one over on you.

I provide and make the  job as easy as is  possible, every tool is there to make it easy, we have petrol powered hedge  cutters no hand  clippers to cut the hedge, all trees  are on sprinklers,  little hand watering, reduced the workload to 5  days etc.

If you are  thinking of getting some land my advice is save your sanity and DONT., weve had them all and none have been "different" same modus operandi in every case, so far had Burmese, Laos and Thai

All just get up and  leave without  any notice at all, the excuse is always "Mum dead/ dad dead/ Mum sick etc etc

Finding any staff now to work on the land is  nigh on impossible, Burmese no longer want this work and the new govt rules are a nightmare for foreign workers.

Weve placed ads  all round the area with the salary and when they call they all say they have experience of working on the land , yet when they arrive its a different story entirely, one guy told me he could lay  blocks, so i let him do a few ( I can) and the result wa s just hilarious. clearly never laid a block in his  life.

So tomorrow  Ill sack the staff "again"

I even asked for staff on TV and two folk turned up but were nothing like how the man who sent them described, they made a tortoise seem fast, weve had  drugs users (yaba) drunks, and some very lazy people.

Many round here dont get much over 300 baht a  day although construction workers get about 500, we  offer 450 -500, many simply dont want a job many want money for nothing too.

Now....tell me how your staff are "wonderful"

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by kannot

[fanjita]

Pay peanuts and you'll get monkeys.  Oh, and improve your security.

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by fanjita

[kannot]

2 minutes ago, fanjita said:

Pay peanuts and you'll get monkeys.

doesnt matter what you pay, anything more substantive?

[fanjita]

Everyone has a price.  

[kannot]

Just now, fanjita said:

Everyone has a price.  

not here doesnt  matter what the price

[Ulysses G.]

Ran a business in Thailand for about 15 years with 17 employees - had very few problems during that time. They were loyal, came on time and did a good job. Probably due to having a excellent female Thai manager. I almost only hired women and paid well. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Ulysses G.

[fanjita]

In fairness you only seem to go max on 500 a day.  The youngsters quite rightly want a bit more.  

 

You can always do the work yourself.  

[kannot]

16 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

Ran a business in Thailand for about 15 years with 17 employees - had very few problems during that time. They were loyal, came on time and did a good job. Probably due to having a excellent female Thai manager. I almost only hired women and paid well. 

what exactly is "paid  well"

[kannot]

19 minutes ago, fanjita said:

In fairness you only seem to go max on 500 a day.  The youngsters quite rightly want a bit more.  

 

You can always do the work yourself.  

staff are 42 and 45 youngsters are even lazier, offered the job for one person at 16k a month still no takers, thats  800 a  day, locals think 500 is  too much

Edited August 22, 2018 by kannot

[fanjita]

Improve your selection/interview process and offer a decent salary.  Youngsters want more now and it's a tough market.  

 

Will cut your margins but up to you.  Carry on like you always have.

[kannot]

20 minutes ago, fanjita said:

In fairness you only seem to go max on 500 a day.  The youngsters quite rightly want a bit more.  

 

You can always do the work yourself.  

did you see where i said I do 75% of the work with them? Last week that was moving  18cubes of gravel with rakes and shovels in one day

[kannot]

1 minute ago, fanjita said:

Improve your selection/interview process and offer a decent salary.  Youngsters want more now and it's a tough market.  

 

Will cut your margins but up to you.  Carry on like you always have.

what margins? its not a business they are "gardeners" we already weed out 90% who say they have experience, a quick  look at their hands  shows  kitten soft skin means they have not done any manual work.

Whats a "decent" salary for weeding, cutting one hedge, watering  trees  all on sprinklers ( = open tap and wait 3  minutes)

Edited August 22, 2018 by kannot

[fanjita]

Just now, kannot said:

did you see where i said I do 75% of the work with them? Last week that was moving  18cubes of gravel with rakes and shovels in one day

Your average worker doesn't care about what you've done, he wants to see his take home pay.  

[kannot]

1 minute ago, fanjita said:

Your average worker doesn't care about what you've done, he wants to see his take home pay.  

you said "do it yourself" I point out I do

[fanjita]

You're a great guy, kannot.  I wish you well with your staffing issues.  

 

It's a tough one in LOS, as is anywhere, but with a little refinement and management you might improve your chances.

[kannot]

Just now, fanjita said:

You're a great guy, kannot.  I wish you well with your staffing issues.  

 

It's a tough one in LOS, as is anywhere, but with a little refinement and management you might improve your chances.

The problem is I have tried everything to make the job less labour intensive whilst increasing the salary to what some local owners  have said "how  much....Ill work for  you for  that", all weeds  were removed by hand for 4  years, we now spray as this is the most tedious  and maybe one reason they dont want to do it

( this caused uproar with the holier than though TV environmental brigade) Have power  tools for everything, includes motorbike and all the other perks.

[fanjita]

Don't worry about evangelical environmentalists.  Can't stand them.  

[kannot]

17 minutes ago, fanjita said:

Don't worry about evangelical environmentalists.  Can't stand them.  

I dont as  most have no idea what getting and keeping staff involves, they also have no idea of working in 36c heat up a  steep  hill, i reckon a few  hours of  weeding and theyd  be converted

[Rc2702]

9000 baht per head + free house and a motorbike and 2 days off a week is a good deal. Next to no overheads for the workers. I'd love to send you my brother in law but I'm sure he would try and escape within 2 hours.

 

What about a rolling bonus. Take 500 baht off the monthly per head and hold it as a yearly bonus.

 

Shocked you cannot retain staff with that deal.

 

For a 6 hour day too. Shocking.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Rc2702

[kannot]

57 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

9000 baht per head + free house and a motorbike and 2 days off a week is a good deal. Next to no overheads for the workers. I'd love to send you my brother in law but I'm sure he would try and escape within 2 hours.

 

What about a rolling bonus. Take 500 baht off the monthly per head and hold it as a yearly bonus.

 

Shocked you cannot retain staff with that deal.

 

For a 6 hour day too. Shocking.

 

 

 

 

are mine my Wifes and some other folks  round abouts  thoughts  exactly.

[blackcab]

I'm sorry to hear about your fish. Have you thought about adding a couple of cctv cameras at strategic locations and adding a locked cage for your net? A lot of cctv nowadays you can watch on your phone from anywhere and it's not overly expensive. I'm sure you're way ahead of me already on that.

 

I really don't know what to suggest about the staff issue. I understand that after a point more money doesn't work. There is also a limit on what can be afforded.

 

Is there any part if their job that can be mechanised? With an aging population and the drift of people towards the cities it is inevitable that mechanisation will take over.

 

Necessity is the mother of invention. 

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, kannot said:

what margins? its not a business they are "gardeners" we already weed out 90% who say they have experience, a quick  look at their hands  shows  kitten soft skin means they have not done any manual work.

Whats a "decent" salary for weeding, cutting one hedge, watering  trees  all on sprinklers ( = open tap and wait 3  minutes)

Gardeners don't mix concrete or move big amounts of dirt. People want to live in their own house near family and friends, not with their boss. They want to ride their own motorbike.Try to find staff without offering the housing, bike and up the salary.

[JLCrab]

At this stage in life, you can prefer to grow pineapples with all the attendant issues -- I prefer to kick back and drink (rum free) pineapple daiquiris

[JaiLai]

Treat them like a Thai boss would, you think they'll be loyal to you for you being nice - they won't, they'll see it as weakness and take the piss.

 

 

 

 

[Enoon]

2 hours ago, kannot said:

did you see where i said I do 75% of the work with them? Last week that was moving  18cubes of gravel with rakes and shovels in one day

 

I have "heard" that such behaviour demeans you in their eyes and makes them disrespect you.

 

Hire a Thai to manage them (and don't get too "equal" with them either).

 

The Thai will treat them as they expect an overlord should.

 

Serfs expect dominion.

 

That is something that I cannot deliver and so could not be an employer in Thailand.

 

To paraphrase Machiavelli:

 

"It is better for a Prince to be feared rather than loved".

 

PS This is the long version, with historical references, of what the bloke in post #24 said.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Enoon

[Kwasaki]

7 hours ago, kannot said:

you said "do it yourself" I point out I do

Well don't do anything other than directing your Thai manager a lady is best as suggested, and use Cambodian and Myanmar labour.

[WonnabeBiker]

OP, I hear you. Take the cleaners at my school. Yes, they mop the floors thrice a day. No, they never wash out the dirty mops, thus never actually cleaning the floors.

 

I believe you offer a fair deal. But am surprised that no Cambodiuans or Burmese want this kind of job?!

 

Have seen older women bend down for hours, harvesting potatos (back home in Europe). And a friend hired a 70 year old to cut the fruit trees. Great job, no billing for nothing.

 

Can your wife do a "leaving interview" to get their side of the story, learn WHY they are leaving?

 

Thanks for giving jobs to people!

[kannot]

6 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

I have "heard" that such behaviour demeans you in their eyes and makes them disrespect you.

 

Hire a Thai to manage them (and don't get too "equal" with them either).

 

The Thai will treat them as they expect an overlord should.

 

Serfs expect dominion.

 

That is something that I cannot deliver and so could not be an employer in Thailand.

 

To paraphrase Machiavelli:

 

"It is better for a Prince to be feared rather than loved".

 

PS This is the long version, with historical references, of what the bloke in post #24 said.

 

 

 

 

 

Myabe but If  I want it done properly  I have to do it, ive tried  the other way and you just get a slapdash damn awful mess.

[kannot]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Well don't do anything other than directing your Thai manager a lady is best as suggested, and use Cambodian and Myanmar labour.

Burmese  simply do not want this work anymore and the issues with employing them now are ridiculous as you do all the paper work, shell out the fees and 1  month later ( after paid) they leave and you have to do the same again with the next lot. This involves a  long journey as the places to do this are few and far between.

Employing without the correct permits now is a big  no no with jail and stupid high fines.

[kannot]

6 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Gardeners don't mix concrete or move big amounts of dirt. People want to live in their own house near family and friends, not with their boss. They want to ride their own motorbike.Try to find staff without offering the housing, bike and up the salary.

They do here , but not often as Ive done 90% of the work that has to be done already, they dont have a motorbike, they want transport, they are not right next to me they are 100metres away I cant even see them.