More staff issues ,be warned

[kannot]

7 hours ago, blackcab said:

I'm sorry to hear about your fish. Have you thought about adding a couple of cctv cameras at strategic locations and adding a locked cage for your net? A lot of cctv nowadays you can watch on your phone from anywhere and it's not overly expensive. I'm sure you're way ahead of me already on that.

 

I really don't know what to suggest about the staff issue. I understand that after a point more money doesn't work. There is also a limit on what can be afforded.

 

Is there any part if their job that can be mechanised? With an aging population and the drift of people towards the cities it is inevitable that mechanisation will take over.

 

Necessity is the mother of invention. 

I have 4  around the land but down by the pond  is too far from the wifi signal to reach and I have a  feeling that they would  pull the plug and say powercut as we get them fairly often.

Removing the net...................he has his  own and a spear on a stick with 4  prongs  on, its just eaier for him to use  mine, now removed.

[Kwasaki]

10 minutes ago, kannot said:

Burmese  simply do not want this work anymore and the issues with employing them now are ridiculous as you do all the paper work, shell out the fees and 1  month later ( after paid) they leave and you have to do the same again with the next lot. This involves a  long journey as the places to do this are few and far between.

Employing without the correct permits now is a big  no no with jail and stupid high fines.

Only a suggestion cause Thais do it in boarder towns,  difficult I guess if your location is inland.

I thought the work permit thing was being done away with.

Sounds like a real pain.  

[cornishcarlos]

I feel your pain....

We have 1 girl who helps around the place, bit of light cleaning, feed animals etc sometimes helps with spraying in the plantations. She gets 10,000 baht/month and works maybe 6hrs/day with a day off each week. She has to be told exactly what to do, otherwise nothing would get done, even after being with us for a year ? She's ok but frustrating still..

[JaiLai]

44 minutes ago, kannot said:

Myabe but If  I want it done properly  I have to do it, ive tried  the other way and you just get a slapdash damn awful mess.

Stand over them and tell them how you want it done.

 

If need be hit them with a  big stick.......( joke  )

[cmsally]

Thais suffer from a huge lack of intrinsic motivation. Rather than have a big salary some can work better on some kind of bonus system.

Also employing people where you have some knowledge of the family network often works because their lack of work ethic and your complaints get back to their families.

It's really difficult employing people where you have no knowledge of their "network".

[JaiLai]

Thais suffer from a huge lack of intrinsic motivation. Rather than have a big salary some can work better on some kind of bonus system.
Also employing people where you have some knowledge of the family network often works because their lack of work ethic and your complaints get back to their families.
It's really difficult employing people where you have no knowledge of their "network".

Their motivation should be having a better paid job than most with what sounds like a decent boss.

However this seems to be too difficult for them to understand...


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[Psimbo]

Generosity is seen as a sign of weakness- cut their wages in half and they'll work til they drop!

[kannot]

27 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Only a suggestion cause Thais do it in boarder towns,  difficult I guess if your location is inland.

I thought the work permit thing was being done away with.

Sounds like a real pain.  

Also some Thais dont do the work permits and Im sure theyd "get away with it" but as a Farlang local Thais would  only be too eager to contact  immigration etc

[kannot]

5 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Thais suffer from a huge lack of intrinsic motivation. Rather than have a big salary some can work better on some kind of bonus system.

Also employing people where you have some knowledge of the family network often works because their lack of work ethic and your complaints get back to their families.

It's really difficult employing people where you have no knowledge of their "network".

Weve tried friends  nearby who sent their Aunty and after 2  months it  all went tits up, we stayed friends with the family, and after shed  gone they told us she  was like this but they were trying to help her, they knew what we  were telling them was true involved an ex  husband creeping round to stay with her who was trouble.

[FritsSikkink]

45 minutes ago, kannot said:

They do here , but not often as Ive done 90% of the work that has to be done already, they dont have a motorbike, they want transport, they are not right next to me they are 100metres away I cant even see them.

For 9K a month a piece they can't afford a motorbike.

[poohy]

We like you live in Prachuap area, home of the laziest Thais born

 

We hired 2 guys to cut and clean around perimeter of our property supplied strimmer paid 300 THB for days work  on checking Mrs Poohy refused to pay until job was done to her satisfaction, caused complete  up roar in village so we heard later..... we now bring in laborers (known to the BKK family) from BKK when we need something done

[NCC1701A]

10 hours ago, kannot said:

I also do 75% of the work with them, that is  shovelling stone mixing concrete moving soil etc.I dont just sit and watch or tell them to get on with it

I put on a mask when I water the garden in front of my house.

Edited August 23, 2018 by NCC1701A

[cmsally]

9 minutes ago, kannot said:

Weve tried friends  nearby who sent their Aunty and after 2  months it  all went tits up, we stayed friends with the family, and after shed  gone they told us she  was like this but they were trying to help her, they knew what we  were telling them was true involved an ex  husband creeping round to stay with her who was trouble.

 

The only way to cut out all the drama (which there tends to be a lot of), is to hire people on a daily basis. Of course its not really convenient and sometimes not possible.

[NCC1701A]

Kannot do your staff meetings go anything like this?

 

[poohy]

I think Mrs Poohys  appraisal of work done  (see earlier post)was similar to above!?

[CGW]

I became an "expat" in the seventies, one of the first pieces of advice I was given was "kindness is recognised as weakness" it was true then and remains true today ? 

I regularly hear about the locals who work for 300 baht a day, I know what the dayrates are here for locals having been here 30 years, those that work for low amounts, don't do a lot of work, they also don't stay very long, we try manage without any help, its not easy but far less stressful than chasing after hired help.

[kannot]

21 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

Kannot do your staff meetings go anything like this?

 

no..............I dont wear a hat

[moontang]

Sounds like a disgruntled pineapple farmer....maybe work out a profit sharing plan, but most would know there is little profit, if any, in pineapples nowadays.

[kannot]

33 minutes ago, cmsally said:

 

The only way to cut out all the drama (which there tends to be a lot of), is to hire people on a daily basis. Of course its not really convenient and sometimes not possible.

and they regularly dont turn up

[kannot]

Just now, moontang said:

Sounds like a disgruntled pineapple farmer....maybe work out a profit sharing plan, but most would know there is little profit, if any, in pineapples nowadays.

sounds  like u know nothing

[LomSak27]

Just now, moontang said:

Sounds like a disgruntled pineapple farmer....maybe work out a profit sharing plan, but most would know there is little profit, if any, in pineapples nowadays.

Everybody is growing pineapples this year - good luck.

[moontang]

I knew a guy working as a laborer on earthquake retrofitting.  He was earning 8 USD per hour, but that was 25 years ago, and....the guy was on work release from the Alameda County Jail.  You are paying 2 bucks per hour and are trying to come across as a philanthropist?  Didn't do your homework.  Ever consider a tractor?

Edited August 23, 2018 by moontang

[varun]

You are not alone.

Finding workers for blue-collar jobs (regardless of industry) is an exercise in futility.

 

I used to head up an engineering team in Bangkok, with a bunch of project engineers and some technicians.

It took 4 months to find a half-decent technician.

Out of the 20-30 odd interviews we "tried" to setup, most didn't even show up for the interview.

Those that we did manage to on-board, quit after a day or few day's work.

 

Salaries that we were willing to offer were fairly competitive - between 18K - 30K, depending on experience.

Ultimately, we did end up having a stable team of 4 technicians, who were hardworking with a good technical skill-set.

 

You do have to deal with the usual "monday sickness", "father/mother/grandma sick" issues, 

but that's part of the package anyways.

[Lacessit]

I suggest you only employ women. The ones I see in my part of Thailand all work hard. It doesn't take a man to harvest pineapples or net fish.

Mind you, pick the ugly ones.

[JaiLai]

I suggest you only employ women. The ones I see in my part of Thailand all work hard. It doesn't take a man to harvest pineapples or net fish.
Mind you, pick the ugly ones.

I agree with this.

I have 2 old ladies that do my weeding, work all day long, no bother at all.


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[Mitker]

I get your point totally

 

Hiring unskilled staff for years for my factory, I reached several conclusions:

1. having a local managing the staff (hiring aspects) is a golden rule

2. suitability to work is a 1:20 occurrence; that's the proportion of candidates showing up that ends up as long term reliable workers

3. no, wage is not the prime motivation; other working conditions are: the way they are treated, rest of the team, some flexibility, interest in the work

4. blank wage increases intended to motivate them lead to lower productivity instead, it's just that simple; "I'm so good and they obviously need me so much" syndrome. Replaced by bonus on results (on HR manager suggestion)

5. Pavlov's is your master: acts must have direct, systematic and explained consequences for all to see (penalties for not following instructions or bonuses for outstanding achievements)

6. being kind doesn't help; offering long term perspectives according to results does

7. globally: the equipment must make the difference; be sure not to depend on specific workers

 

Their perception of us as "farang boss" will typically be negative as a start ("has money, can be easily tricked"). The 1 out of 20 who makes it has the capacity to adjust this perception and deliver on the long term.

I often work with them for several reasons: some technicalities require it, it shows them I know the job and what it requires, they understand I closely check their work, evaluate it and comment them on it, it also leads to knowing each others. In these conditions, you'll get respect built on both side (still for the 1/20)

 

Almost all the hiring basic rules valid in the West are useless here

[CanuckThai]

Not much respect for farang in these parts.  Seems to be a diminishing half life for respect, if a farang is seen working (firsthand knowledge unfortunately).   Maybe the perks that you provide, a guaranteed percentage of the monthly salary offered (50? 60? 75? %) split weekly(eg:2500 per week for the 2), the balance of the salary at the end of month, and a bit of an attendance/performance/non-pilfering  bonus....to keep them moving all month long, and in beer or whiskey.  

 

Good luck, I wouldn't want your headache...

[kannot]

2 hours ago, moontang said:

I knew a guy working as a laborer on earthquake retrofitting.  He was earning 8 USD per hour, but that was 25 years ago, and....the guy was on work release from the Alameda County Jail.  You are paying 2 bucks per hour and are trying to come across as a philanthropist?  Didn't do your homework.  Ever consider a tractor?

ever consider a brain implant?

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Mitker said:

 

Almost all the hiring basic rules valid in the West are useless here

Absolutely the best explanation of  how to handle Thai workers and my experience exactly.

[kannot]

1 hour ago, Mitker said:

I get your point totally

 

Hiring unskilled staff for years for my factory, I reached several conclusions:

1. having a local managing the staff (hiring aspects) is a golden rule

2. suitability to work is a 1:20 occurrence; that's the proportion of candidates showing up that ends up as long term reliable workers

3. no, wage is not the prime motivation; other working conditions are: the way they are treated, rest of the team, some flexibility, interest in the work

4. blank wage increases intended to motivate them lead to lower productivity instead, it's just that simple; "I'm so good and they obviously need me so much" syndrome. Replaced by bonus on results (on HR manager suggestion)

5. Pavlov's is your master: acts must have direct, systematic and explained consequences for all to see (penalties for not following instructions or bonuses for outstanding achievements)

6. being kind doesn't help; offering long term perspectives according to results does

7. globally: the equipment must make the difference; be sure not to depend on specific workers

 

Their perception of us as "farang boss" will typically be negative as a start ("has money, can be easily tricked"). The 1 out of 20 who makes it has the capacity to adjust this perception and deliver on the long term.

I often work with them for several reasons: some technicalities require it, it shows them I know the job and what it requires, they understand I closely check their work, evaluate it and comment them on it, it also leads to knowing each others. In these conditions, you'll get respect built on both side (still for the 1/20)

 

Almost all the hiring basic rules valid in the West are useless here

Best answer by far someone who actually  knows what its  like trying  to hire and keep  decent  staff