Future Forward Party execs summoned to hear charges

[zzaa09]

On 8/23/2018 at 11:07 PM, robblok said:

Did i not write down we need no more crooks ? Unlike you I don't have to make a difference between junta and other crooks. We just don't need any crooks in government period (or any other place). No matter what kind. Its quite simple. 

All a bit moot, mate.

As, government and corruption [the world over] are synonymous with common familiar bonds. 

 

And the dumbing down continues on.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, zzaa09 said:

All a bit moot, mate.

As, government and corruption [the world over] are synonymous with common familiar bonds. 

 

And the dumbing down continues on.

I disagree.. but then again I am not sure where you are from (if from the US things might be different but EU not so much). Corruption does exist but not on the scale it exists here. So not wanting crooks in government is something that is possible. 

[candide]

13 hours ago, robblok said:

He might not care about it, but he has to  have a huge amount of support to be able to tear it up without risking a coup. If they want to tear the constitution up something I certainly would not oppose they should do it legally. If they don't it will be nullified or the army will come out to play. 

On top of it, there is practically no legal way to change the constitution as at least 20% of MPs of EACH opposition party must approve it. 

So practically, unless at least 20% of MPs of Suthep's party and of each of the other pro-military party approve it, there's no way to legally change the consitution. Unfortunately, it also means that there is no way to peacefully change the constitution. 

 

[tifino]

All this skating on thin ice...

 it'd be a safer job instead being an ice road trucker 

 

 

BTW which gulag do the aledged recalcitrants be sent to for retraining these days? 

[robblok]

10 hours ago, candide said:

On top of it, there is practically no legal way to change the constitution as at least 20% of MPs of EACH opposition party must approve it. 

So practically, unless at least 20% of MPs of Suthep's party and of each of the other pro-military party approve it, there's no way to legally change the consitution. Unfortunately, it also means that there is no way to peacefully change the constitution. 

 

That rule is real bad, I can understand that you need more then a normal majority for a constitution change. Seems logical to me. This however is not because if I form an opposition party and just get 1 seat I would be able to stop the whole process. 

 

That is a bad thing, but is the army budget in the constitution meaning the exact amount ? Anyway first we have to see if the future forward party is going to get any votes. We also have to see if he is as good as he looks. 

[Eric Loh]

10 hours ago, candide said:

On top of it, there is practically no legal way to change the constitution as at least 20% of MPs of EACH opposition party must approve it. 

So practically, unless at least 20% of MPs of Suthep's party and of each of the other pro-military party approve it, there's no way to legally change the consitution. Unfortunately, it also means that there is no way to peacefully change the constitution. 

 

I believed there is a legal way in form of a referendum. If a mass of people demand constitution to be re-written, the government would need to respond in kind and hold a referendum. I think they are legal avenues in the constitution to allow that in a referendum but I stand corrected. I also think the 1997 constitution was a result of that situation. Again stand corrected and will reseatch more. 

 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

I believed there is a legal way in form of a referendum. If a mass of people demand constitution to be re-written, the government would need to respond in kind and hold a referendum. I think they are legal avenues in the constitution to allow that in a referendum but I stand corrected. I also think the 1997 constitution was a result of that situation. Again stand corrected and will reseatch more. 

 

Still even if it can be done with say 70% of the MP's (seems to me a normal amount for a constitution rewrite it should be more then 50% on such important things). How are they going to get 70% of MP's, PTP has scored a bit under 50% of the votes last time and as the number of MP's is now vote based that would mean 50% of the MP's then they are still 20% short.. unless future forward gets a nice amount of votes (not drawn from PTP) and or the democrats decide to agree to it its not a situation that will happen easy. 

[pornprong]

On 8/24/2018 at 10:19 AM, robblok said:

You cannot compare the junta with Hun Sen, whatever the junta its faults they are not doing such a bad job the Thais dont seem to care. Only those who like democracy have something to complain but otherwise they run the country ok not better or worse then YL. Sorry I really don't see much difference. Obviously the Thais also don't see much difference or they would care a lot more. I think in this case your the one with a minority opinion. I really think that if it was bad a lot more Thais would care you would not see the apathie there is now. 

Sympathising with the Junta again, how typical.

It is not apathy that keeps the people quiet.....it is fear.

Using live ammunition on citizens, running "attitude adjustment" camps and threatening family members tends to have that result.

Your opinion that the Junta "are not doing such a bad job" reveals all we need to know about you.

Prayuth and co could shoot another 100 Thais a la 2010 and you'll still be on here with the Thaksin, Thaksin, blah, blah, blah nonsense.

 

 

 

[robblok]

4 hours ago, pornprong said:

Sympathising with the Junta again, how typical.

It is not apathy that keeps the people quiet.....it is fear.

Using live ammunition on citizens, running "attitude adjustment" camps and threatening family members tends to have that result.

Your opinion that the Junta "are not doing such a bad job" reveals all we need to know about you.

Prayuth and co could shoot another 100 Thais a la 2010 and you'll still be on here with the Thaksin, Thaksin, blah, blah, blah nonsense.

 

 

 

Not sympathizing at all.. i want them gone.. just telling you how it is. No fool would compare this junta with Hun Sen, quite a few differences. I guess you did not read anything about me being pro future forward. You are really black and white if someone says something that you don't like its automatic sympathizing with the junta.

 

Fact remains a large part of the country does not care, because they know that whoever is next in government will be crooks too. They have been fooled too long and will vote.. but won't risk much more.  Prayut did not shoot 100 people.. it was shared blame, because someone (guess who) put armed men in black that fired at the army. The person responsible for that is as responsible for the deaths as the army. I know for sure that without Thaksin his blessings there would not been any men in black in the red camps.

 

Don't think for a moment I liked the loss of life and that I don't hold the army responsible, but I also hold the person responsible who put the men in black there. Something the red supporters seem to forget. 

 

I will always comment on Thaksin as he is a crook. You will always comment on the junta because they are crooks. I just comment on both the junta and Thaksin. That is something you cannot live with because you need to feel your supporting a just cause while in reality Thaksin is big crook. Accept it like I have.. right now there are no good options.. they are all crooks. I said it a few times.. right now the PTP is the less evil option (future forward would be better IMHO but they wont win). I only think the PTP is the lesser evil because they will be checked and have to follow the rules while the junta has not. There you have it... I would prefer the PTP to win the next election not the junta.

 

I however will never see Thaksin or any other crook including junta crooks as good. Problem is right now there are no real choices with good people. Maybe future forward but we have to see. Thai politics is a huge mess with all those crooks in political parties. Do you really think the normal people don't see it. They are not stupid.. that is why they wont protest because risking harm to put an other group of crooks in power is just not worth it. Voting is worth it as its risk free and does not take much effort but rising up... only when the junta is a lot worse OR there is a good alternative. The people have not forgotten Thaksin his lies about being there when the bullets would fly but then running and evacuating his whole family at the first sign of trouble while others died for him. He was probably the one putting the men in black there too.. so responsible too.

[tomta]

On 8/27/2018 at 12:34 PM, robblok said:

Not sympathizing at all.. i want them gone.. just telling you how it is. No fool would compare this junta with Hun Sen, quite a few differences. I guess you did not read anything about me being pro future forward. You are really black and white if someone says something that you don't like its automatic sympathizing with the junta.

 

Fact remains a large part of the country does not care, because they know that whoever is next in government will be crooks too. They have been fooled too long and will vote.. but won't risk much more.  Prayut did not shoot 100 people.. it was shared blame, because someone (guess who) put armed men in black that fired at the army. The person responsible for that is as responsible for the deaths as the army. I know for sure that without Thaksin his blessings there would not been any men in black in the red camps.

 

Don't think for a moment I liked the loss of life and that I don't hold the army responsible, but I also hold the person responsible who put the men in black there. Something the red supporters seem to forget. 

 

I will always comment on Thaksin as he is a crook. You will always comment on the junta because they are crooks. I just comment on both the junta and Thaksin. That is something you cannot live with because you need to feel your supporting a just cause while in reality Thaksin is big crook. Accept it like I have.. right now there are no good options.. they are all crooks. I said it a few times.. right now the PTP is the less evil option (future forward would be better IMHO but they wont win). I only think the PTP is the lesser evil because they will be checked and have to follow the rules while the junta has not. There you have it... I would prefer the PTP to win the next election not the junta.

 

I however will never see Thaksin or any other crook including junta crooks as good. Problem is right now there are no real choices with good people. Maybe future forward but we have to see. Thai politics is a huge mess with all those crooks in political parties. Do you really think the normal people don't see it. They are not stupid.. that is why they wont protest because risking harm to put an other group of crooks in power is just not worth it. Voting is worth it as its risk free and does not take much effort but rising up... only when the junta is a lot worse OR there is a good alternative. The people have not forgotten Thaksin his lies about being there when the bullets would fly but then running and evacuating his whole family at the first sign of trouble while others died for him. He was probably the one putting the men in black there too.. so responsible too.

You still cling to this idea of good people/bad people. It has a certain truth but it only goes so far. The line between good and evil as Alexander Solzhenitsyn rightly said runs straight through the human heart. We are all a bit good and a bit evil. Abraham Lincoln saw this so clearly when the civil war had been more or less won by the Northern states and the Union had prevailed against slavery and feudalism and he appealed in his second inaugural to "the better angels of our nature" to heal the wounds of the American Civil War. We have to really think about the systemic injustices, the systemic undemocracy, the systemic problems. Good/bad goes only so far.

[bannork]

Going back to the OP, i don't think Thanathorn has to worry about this charge too much. There are 3 courts in Thailand. By the time the verdict of the Supreme Court is read out, 10 year may have passed- and a lot may have happened by then!

[Menyang]

When a khaki mans head is lofted on a stick, only then can thailand be free

[robblok]

13 hours ago, tomta said:

You still cling to this idea of good people/bad people. It has a certain truth but it only goes so far. The line between good and evil as Alexander Solzhenitsyn rightly said runs straight through the human heart. We are all a bit good and a bit evil. Abraham Lincoln saw this so clearly when the civil war had been more or less won by the Northern states and the Union had prevailed against slavery and feudalism and he appealed in his second inaugural to "the better angels of our nature" to heal the wounds of the American Civil War. We have to really think about the systemic injustices, the systemic undemocracy, the systemic problems. Good/bad goes only so far.

If you don't mind I will keep calling corrupt people who in doing so steal from those in need (money could have been spend on schools / hospitals ect) evil. I don't care what side they are on. So I will call those bad evil / those who don't I will call good makes it easy.

 

Many would argue that North vs South was not about slavery so that casts a lot of doubt on the rest you said.. making it just as what I am typing just your opinion. 

[tomta]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

If you don't mind I will keep calling corrupt people who in doing so steal from those in need (money could have been spend on schools / hospitals ect) evil. I don't care what side they are on. So I will call those bad evil / those who don't I will call good makes it easy.

 

Many would argue that North vs South was not about slavery so that casts a lot of doubt on the rest you said.. making it just as what I am typing just your opinion. 

Of course it's just my opinion. We are not merely discussing facts here but making judgements... You are obviously entitled to your own opinions and judgements. I just happen to think that mine are based in a more nuanced and reasoned understanding of human nature and  human affairs. As for slavery and the civil war, I'm aware of the debates that go on over its causes. Slavery may not have been the proximate cause, that certainly can be argued, but I think the weight of evidence overwhelmingly points to it as the ultimate cause. But that is a debate for another place and time I guess. My point is that I think Abraham Lincoln did have a good understanding of people. we are none of us perfect and unless the systemic opportunities for corruption are addressed which they have not been in Thailand, Corruption will continue to flourish in Thailand.

 

 

 

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, tomta said:

Of course it's just my opinion. We are not merely discussing facts here but making judgements... You are obviously entitled to your own opinions and judgements. I just happen to think that mine are based in a more nuanced and reasoned understanding of human nature and  human affairs. As for slavery and the civil war, I'm aware of the debates that go on over its causes. Slavery may not have been the proximate cause, that certainly can be argued, but I think the weight of evidence overwhelmingly points to it as the ultimate cause. But that is a debate for another place and time I guess. My point is that I think Abraham Lincoln did have a good understanding of people. we are none of us perfect and unless the systemic opportunities for corruption are addressed which they have not been in Thailand, Corruption will continue to flourish in Thailand.

 

I see corruption as bad / evil.. not sure how else to see it. If you steal from the government you deny the goverment money that could be used for healthcare / education / old people ect. I don't understand why you don't see that as a bad / evil thing. We don't need people who do that in a goverment. I don't understand the problem.

 

Sure corrupt people might not be totally evil they might be good for their pets and family but that still does not make it right or makes it good to have them in positions where they can steal from the government. Sad thing is most if not all want to be in power because they want to make money in shady ways. I feel its a good thing to prevent people like that getting in places where they can steal. I don't care if they are PTP / junta or martians. 

 

*edit*

 

Has your view maybe something to do with wanting to excuse a certain corrupt leader of a party by saying he did other good things ? So its ok for him to steal ? Just wondering why you hold such a view.

Edited August 29, 2018 by robblok

[pornprong]

1 hour ago, tomta said:

Of course it's just my opinion. We are not merely discussing facts here but making judgements... You are obviously entitled to your own opinions and judgements. I just happen to think that mine are based in a more nuanced and reasoned understanding of human nature and  human affairs. As for slavery and the civil war, I'm aware of the debates that go on over its causes. Slavery may not have been the proximate cause, that certainly can be argued, but I think the weight of evidence overwhelmingly points to it as the ultimate cause. But that is a debate for another place and time I guess. My point is that I think Abraham Lincoln did have a good understanding of people. we are none of us perfect and unless the systemic opportunities for corruption are addressed which they have not been in Thailand, Corruption will continue to flourish in Thailand.

No need to debate the cause of the US civil war - Robblok already knows it was that evil bastard Thaksin's fault

[tomta]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

I see corruption as bad / evil.. not sure how else to see it. If you steal from the government you deny the goverment money that could be used for healthcare / education / old people ect. I don't understand why you don't see that as a bad / evil thing. We don't need people who do that in a goverment. I don't understand the problem.

 

Sure corrupt people might not be totally evil they might be good for their pets and family but that still does not make it right or makes it good to have them in positions where they can steal from the government. Sad thing is most if not all want to be in power because they want to make money in shady ways. I feel its a good thing to prevent people like that getting in places where they can steal. I don't care if they are PTP / junta or martians. 

 

*edit*

 

Has your view maybe something to do with wanting to excuse a certain corrupt leader of a party by saying he did other good things ? So its ok for him to steal ? Just wondering why you hold such a view.

I give up. Yes, everything I do  and say is to excuse the irredeemable wickedness of Voldemort.

[zzaa09]

19 hours ago, Menyang said:

When a khaki mans head is lofted on a stick, only then can thailand be free

You might want to add another colour or two towards your standard.