Gained half an inch on my upper arm muscle :)

[JohnDyson]

On 9/12/2018 at 2:31 PM, tropo said:

Simon is a lightweight, so perhaps chin-ups are OK for him, but for most people, chin-ups are not a very good exercise choice. Few people have sufficient chin-up (or pull-up) strength to be able to perform a good, solid 10 rep set in perfect form, meaning only low rep sets can be performed, which can quickly lead to over-training and injuries.

 

For me personally, I've messed around with chin-ups and pull-ups of all types over 40 years and finally gave them up as a bad job. Due to bicep tendon overstress and injury my arm size took a hit. If you hurt your joints (elbows or shoulders) in any way, arm size will suffer, along with any other muscles attached to them.

 

Inverted rows is a fantastic exercise though. I recommend a neutral grip if you can set it up that way. I use rotating handles. Use a grip where your strength is maximized. More back strength will lead to more arm size.

Neutral grip is good for chin ups as well. But yes inverted rows are safer for people over 90kgs. Easy to do chin ups at 60kgs.

[JohnDyson]

I do overhand and underhand rows as I don't have a neutral grip set up but I could buy some metal handles to put over the bar for neutrals. I tried with rope but it was too flexible and bent too much.

Edited September 24, 2018 by JohnDyson

[tropo]

On 9/25/2018 at 6:17 AM, JohnDyson said:

I do overhand and underhand rows as I don't have a neutral grip set up but I could buy some metal handles to put over the bar for neutrals. I tried with rope but it was too flexible and bent too much.

I bought rotating handles on eBay. They allow you to use any grip you wish. The best grip is the grip that provides the most power. It's usually the position that is easiest on the joints.

[JohnDyson]

3 hours ago, tropo said:

I bought rotating handles on eBay. They allow you to use any grip you wish. The best grip is the grip that provides the most power. It's usually the position that is easiest on the joints.

I had a resistance band with handles so put the handles around the bar and you're right. The handles with a neutral but rotating grip is better. Less strain on the joints and it targets the back well. Thanks for the tip. I tried with rope before but it was too flexible. The handles have rigid straps on them. Can do good slow controlled reps with holds at the top. Perfect to hit those upper back muscles

Edited October 10, 2018 by JohnDyson

[JohnDyson]

What's your view on doing push ups? Should I do same day as the rows or split?

 

I can do a max of 70 push ups in a row but usually do sets of 30 to 50. I don't touch the floor with chest cause I'm protecting my shoulders. I use a fist neutral hand position.

[Denim]

Dear Charles Atlas,

 

Have successfully completed your course. Now send me the muscles.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Denim

[tropo]

6 hours ago, JohnDyson said:

What's your view on doing push ups? Should I do same day as the rows or split?

 

I can do a max of 70 push ups in a row but usually do sets of 30 to 50. I don't touch the floor with chest cause I'm protecting my shoulders. I use a fist neutral hand position.

I do push-pull on the same day. I'll do a set of rows (or any other back exercise - I have a lat pulldown station, so have a big variety), followed immediately by a set of a pushing exercise (push up, bench press, DB incline press, presses etc). When I'm doing pushups I either use a bar and go down until my chest touches the bar or I use my pushup handles (in the neutral position), which gives me even more stretch. I set the bar at various heights on my rack. I don't like doing reps above 30, and usually in the 15 - 20 rep range. I do them very slow and deliberate, lowing slowly and pausing when I'm in the bottom position at stretch. I make them difficult, which keeps the reps down. I concentrate on what the back muscles are doing and movement of the scapulae. If I do very controlled full stretch push-ups my shoulder health, strength and flexibility improve. I don't do full stretch reps with heavyweights on the bench press, only with bodyweight pushups. Using a scale I determined I'm pushing up about 70kg when doing pushups in the normal flat position, so 15 - 20 controlled slow reps are sufficient for a good workout. Pushups are my first exercise for chest and a warmup.

Edited October 10, 2018 by tropo

[JohnDyson]

15 to 30 sounds good. I will try that going slow.

[simon43]

Slowly, slowly I'm increasing my upper body muscle.  I usually wear a wrist bracelet (present from my nieces).  It's a circular bracelet, but I've had to hammer it into an oval shape because it is now too tight on my wrist - definitely a good sign that my forearms are increasing in size.

 

BTW - this upper body muscle increase is from 'totally puny' to 'puny'!  But it is very encouraging for me that I can see a substantial improvement in muscle mass on my arms and shoulders, but not much on my pecs.

 

I continue to self-inject with testosterone twice a week, (under doctor's instructions). My monthly blood tests for T, estrogen and PSA levels indicate a substantial increase in T levels (with a corresponding increase in libido).  Estrogen levels remain stable (I take the estrogen blocker - forgot what it's called).  My PSA levels also remain stable, which is very good news for me ????

 

My diet remains unchanged, except with additional whey protein morning and evening.  Decent red meat is hard to find at my location, and whey protein replaces that until I return to Thailand later this month.

 

My abs are very well developed now, and I'm doing daily core exercises to tone them up, as well as additional exercises for my obliques.

 

Still cycling 20 Km before breakfast (Mon-Fri) and jogging 10 Km before breakfast at the weekend.  It seems so easy now ????

 

Out of interest, I pushed myself to jog at a faster pace than normal last weekend.  I jogged 10 Km in 48 minutes, which I'm happy with at my age ????

 

[JohnDyson]

I'm adding some cycling in. Not much good at running and not skinny enough to run fast. I was doing weights 4 to 5 days a week on a split routine but it was too much so cut back and focusing on bodyweight exercises instead. I seem to get better results with less training

[tropo]

On 10/12/2018 at 11:40 AM, simon43 said:

Slowly, slowly I'm increasing my upper body muscle.  I usually wear a wrist bracelet (present from my nieces).  It's a circular bracelet, but I've had to hammer it into an oval shape because it is now too tight on my wrist - definitely a good sign that my forearms are increasing in size.

 

BTW - this upper body muscle increase is from 'totally puny' to 'puny'!  But it is very encouraging for me that I can see a substantial improvement in muscle mass on my arms and shoulders, but not much on my pecs.

 

I continue to self-inject with testosterone twice a week, (under doctor's instructions). My monthly blood tests for T, estrogen and PSA levels indicate a substantial increase in T levels (with a corresponding increase in libido).  Estrogen levels remain stable (I take the estrogen blocker - forgot what it's called).  My PSA levels also remain stable, which is very good news for me ????

 

My diet remains unchanged, except with additional whey protein morning and evening.  Decent red meat is hard to find at my location, and whey protein replaces that until I return to Thailand later this month.

 

My abs are very well developed now, and I'm doing daily core exercises to tone them up, as well as additional exercises for my obliques.

 

Still cycling 20 Km before breakfast (Mon-Fri) and jogging 10 Km before breakfast at the weekend.  It seems so easy now ????

 

Out of interest, I pushed myself to jog at a faster pace than normal last weekend.  I jogged 10 Km in 48 minutes, which I'm happy with at my age ????

 

Have you continued with your all-weekend-long fasts? I remember you saying you might keep that up?

[tropo]

10 hours ago, JohnDyson said:

I'm adding some cycling in. Not much good at running and not skinny enough to run fast. I was doing weights 4 to 5 days a week on a split routine but it was too much so cut back and focusing on bodyweight exercises instead. I seem to get better results with less training

Bodyweight exercises can be absolutely amazing. I started doing more of them since I set up a home gym and definitely reap rewards. There's a big difference between barbell bench presses and pushups, but looking at them you wouldn't think so. Pinning your body down onto a bench completely changes the way your back and chest muscles work. The only problem I see is that people obsess about the number of reps they can perform, thereby speeding up the movement and shortening the range of motion. It's an ego thing that should be avoided. Forget about the number of reps you perform, slow it down and feel what you are doing rather than counting reps. 10 slow, concentrated reps can be worth far more than 30 fast reps. It's actually the negative part of the movement that builds more muscle (and strength).

[tropo]

11 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

Train the big 3 [squat, bench press, and deadlift] Google Wendler 5 3 1.

The deep squat is known as the king.

https://www.t-nation.com/workouts/531-how-to-build-pure-strength

I don't think T-nation is considering 60-year-olds who haven't trained before. Hitting those 3 hard could severely cripple an older student. It will most likely hamper his running too, especially if he overstresses his back from deadlifts and squats.

Edited October 15, 2018 by tropo

[simon43]

Have you continued with your all-weekend-long fasts? I remember you saying you might keep that up?

 

No I haven't.  But not because I got 'negative vibes' on the couple of occasions when I did these 48 hour fasts.  I mentioned that I felt great ????

 

But bearing in mind that I eat like a mouse on most days, and that I'm trying to increase my upper body muscle mass, and having started on the testosterone program, I decided that these long fasts, coupled with my running, cycling and weights routines, would probably not help me to add muscle.

 

Right now, I jog 5 Km every weekday morning before work, then do weights in the gym after work. 10 km morning jogs on Saturday and Sunday.  I usually cycle every day but got a puncture a few days ago and have been too lazy to repair it!

 

My gym work has resulted in a slow but steady increase in the weight that I can lift.  Nothing spectacular, but a very positive indication that I'm gaining muscle and strength in my upper body.

 

My T injections are going fine, no problems to self-inject.  I'll go for my monthly T/estrogen/PSA check-up this weekend. Tests after my first month were T=1200 (increase from 350), estogen about 25 (no change), PSA = 4.5 (no change - I always have this slightly raised value).  The T value is at the top end of a normal range (high for my 59 years of course).  I'll maybe reduce my T dosage a little, depending on the results this weekend.  My ED problems that I've had since my early 20's have all but disappeared! 

 

Life is good ????

 

My jogging has not resulted in any injury or fatigue.

 

My slow and steady exercise over the past 20 months has really made a visible (positive) difference in my upper body size.  Not a body-builder, but looking and feeling fit and healthy.

[JohnDyson]

Yes I've stopped worrying about sets and reps. Just focusing on muscle contraction with slow negatives. Done far less volume but seem to be getting stronger. I think the high volume approach only works for people on roids.

 

 

[gunderhill]

On 8/30/2018 at 9:36 AM, UnkleGoooose said:

I've gained nearly 2 inches since watching redtube, but only on my right bicep though. ?

Iv'e heard you can pay people in Thailand to help with that problem?

[JohnDyson]

2 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

If he used percentages based on his 1RM, would he still be in danger?

Anyone over 50 should be careful. Takes longer to recover from injuries and without a solid base of strength low reps with heavy weights are a lot more risky.

[JukeBox1]

Hello, sorry but I think you are doing way too much cardio to get muscles.

Why all this useless cardio ? nobody needs to train his heart more than 1 hour daily, and even, it's too much already.

 

 

[JohnDyson]

8 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

Primarily, high volume [5 sets of 8-10] builds size. Low volume [5x5, 3x3, and heavy singles] builds strength and power. Deloading is also very important.

I got burnt out on high volume

[JohnDyson]

3 hours ago, JukeBox1 said:

Hello, sorry but I think you are doing way too much cardio to get muscles.

Why all this useless cardio ? nobody needs to train his heart more than 1 hour daily, and even, it's too much already.

 

 

Some people enjoy cardio, otherwise they wouldn't do it. It's like drinking - 1 a day is good for you but 5 a day is too much.

[JohnDyson]

https://www.painscience.com/articles/strength-training-frequency.php

 

Multiple studies have found good results on less training, especially with older people.

 

I used to think going from 3 sets to 5 sets and training often was the go. Now I think doing 2 to 3 quality sets and only training half as much is better.

[tropo]

12 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

Primarily, high volume [5 sets of 8-10] builds size. Low volume [5x5, 3x3, and heavy singles] builds strength and power. Deloading is also very important.

You can build a lot of muscle even in the 10 - 25 rep range. The trick is total fatigue to break down muscle tissue. It's actually much harder to perform a good failure set at 20 - 25 reps than 8 - 10 reps. That's a picnic by comparison. The good thing about higher reps is the safety factor because you don't stress out about putting lots of weight on the bar.

[tropo]

14 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

No I haven't.  But not because I got 'negative vibes' on the couple of occasions when I did these 48 hour fasts.  I mentioned that I felt great ????

 

But bearing in mind that I eat like a mouse on most days, and that I'm trying to increase my upper body muscle mass, and having started on the testosterone program, I decided that these long fasts, coupled with my running, cycling and weights routines, would probably not help me to add muscle.

 

Right now, I jog 5 Km every weekday morning before work, then do weights in the gym after work. 10 km morning jogs on Saturday and Sunday.  I usually cycle every day but got a puncture a few days ago and have been too lazy to repair it!

 

My gym work has resulted in a slow but steady increase in the weight that I can lift.  Nothing spectacular, but a very positive indication that I'm gaining muscle and strength in my upper body.

 

My T injections are going fine, no problems to self-inject.  I'll go for my monthly T/estrogen/PSA check-up this weekend. Tests after my first month were T=1200 (increase from 350), estogen about 25 (no change), PSA = 4.5 (no change - I always have this slightly raised value).  The T value is at the top end of a normal range (high for my 59 years of course).  I'll maybe reduce my T dosage a little, depending on the results this weekend.  My ED problems that I've had since my early 20's have all but disappeared! 

 

Life is good ????

 

My jogging has not resulted in any injury or fatigue.

 

My slow and steady exercise over the past 20 months has really made a visible (positive) difference in my upper body size.  Not a body-builder, but looking and feeling fit and healthy.

There's a good reason why you got negative vibes when discussing your "incredible" 2-day fasts. It's because you want to gain muscle mass while continuing to do large volumes of cardio training. It's going to be an uphill battle to gain muscle even without the fasting, but not necessarily with those high levels of Testosterone supplementation. You wouldn't have to do much training to gain on that much T, especially at the start. Gains will start to slow down later on as your body becomes used to that level of hormone.

 

BTW, 1200 ng/dL is WAY above the high end of normal, and would only be seen naturally in a very small number of young guys - don't kid yourself. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with the expensive PSA test. It's not even a very good indicator of cancer. Once a year should do it.

[tropo]

15 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

If he used percentages based on his 1RM, would he still be in danger?

Yes. An older person would need to be more conservative with the percentages. They are designed for young people. I've been doing those exercises since I was 15 years old, and all 3 (can) cause problems now at age 59. I caused enough damage with these "big 3" when I was younger too. One time last year I tweaked my lower back (sacroiliac joint) doing a warmup set of squats with hardly any weight on the bar and I was off for months. It's not uncommon to get injuries with light weights too.

 

I gave up bench press in favour of incline presses, and never to full stretch (touching chest). I only do pushups in the flat position. I only do very light squats (home gym, so not many choices of exercises. If I had a good leg press I'd give them up) and deadlifts I do occasionally at lightweight (an easy 8 - 10 reps - no struggle), and people without experience from their younger years should avoid them entirely. There are other ways to keep your back strong without the load. If your back doesn't cause trouble at age 60 - congratulations. Don't ruin a good thing with squats and deadlifts, unless VERY light weights are used. Nobody cares how much you can lift when you're old. Keeping the body flexible, functional and pain-free should be the goal. You can still build or maintain a good physique, but it requires smarter training and it's best to keep the weights as light as possible. You can make the muscles work very hard with lighter weights, but you have to slow it down and focus on the contraction.

[JohnDyson]

Trap bar deadlifts are safer and pro athletes in other sports usually do this version. Boofheads care about max lifts but for most people it's about overall well being.

 

 

[JohnDyson]

7 hours ago, tropo said:

You can build a lot of muscle even in the 10 - 25 rep range. The trick is total fatigue to break down muscle tissue. It's actually much harder to perform a good failure set at 20 - 25 reps than 8 - 10 reps. That's a picnic by comparison. The good thing about higher reps is the safety factor because you don't stress out about putting lots of weight on the bar.

Yes it is. Ego makes people go heavy though. Arnold used to do some sets in the 20 to 30 range. Some others as well would aim for similar on back exercises.

Edited October 16, 2018 by JohnDyson

[simon43]

 I have no idea why you're so obsessed with the expensive PSA test. 

[//quote]

 

Not expensive here in Myanmar.  It added about $10 to the total bill... ????

 

Yes, the 1200 T level is high.  But that is my first T result one month after starting the course of T + estrogen.  This weekend I'll have another T test and based on that, my doctor can advise me to reduce my weekly T injection amount (if needed).

 

As for too much cardio exercise, I really don't see what the fuss is about.  It's like saying you read too much!  My cycling and jogging is very enjoyable, I never get out of breath, I enjoy jogging around the hotel gardens or cycling around the large lakes in Naypyitaw.

 

If I had to really push myself to do the cardio, and/or if I were left exhausted or breathless after that cardio, then maybe that's an indication to do less.

 

Despite this 'easy' cardio, my muscle mass is increasing, and this increase was visible/measureable long before I started the T injections.

 

I think many people have a morbid fear of exercise and good food ????

 

I appreciate all the comments about being an old man and taking risks with damage to my knees etc from jogging etc etc blah blah blah.  But I never push myself too hard, to the point of injury.  Additionally, maybe I have an advantage over many because my body frame and weight is 'light' ==> less stress on my knees when jogging.

[JohnDyson]

I think many people don't enjoy running. People are likely to keep doing what they enjoy. Running more than 2km is really an exercise for light frames. Other people would be better off doing short hill sprints or ride a bike or row or swim.

[simon43]

I hated jogging 20 months ago when I first started trying to get fit.  Jogging only 100 metres was torture!  I slowly increased my distance until I'm happily jogging 10 Km Saturday and Sunday mornings.

 

Looking back over the past 20 months, I am amazed at how my stamina and 'feeling-good' has improved.  I will never return to the beer + pizza diet of yesteryear ????

[JohnDyson]

What was your starting weight?